2015-03-02b.657.4	EDUCATION	Academies: Exam Results	John Mann	How many academies have reported a decline in exam results in the last year.
2015-03-02b.657.5	EDUCATION	Academies: Exam Results	Nicky Morgan	This year’s key stage 4 results are the first since crucial reforms to our qualification and accountability systems, which were designed to raise the bar for our children, came into force. Overall, the proportion of pupils achieving A* to C grades including English and maths in state schools fell across all types of school. There has been a 71% increase in the number of pupils taking the key academic subjects that will prepare them better for life in modern Britain.
2015-03-02b.657.6	EDUCATION	Academies: Exam Results	John Mann	That was a bit of a non-answer. If an academy is successful, parents are happy and so am I, but what if an academy is getting bad results and is on the way down? What powers are there for local people to enable them to have any influence whatsoever on the future of that academy?
2015-03-02b.657.7	EDUCATION	Academies: Exam Results	Nicky Morgan	I do not think that saying that 71% of pupils are taking the more academic subjects most highly valued by employers and universities could be described as a non-answer. In answer to the hon. Gentleman’s question, I am sure that as the local Member of Parliament he will be working closely with the regional schools commissioner, the head teacher, the teachers and the governors of that school. What we all want at the end of the day is the best possible education for our young people.
2015-03-02b.657.8	EDUCATION	Academies: Exam Results	Damian Green	I was able to see for myself at Kennington Church of England junior academy on Friday the benefits of academy status in improving a school that has had serious weaknesses in the past. Does the Secretary of State agree that academy status increasingly benefits not just secondary schools but primary schools?
2015-03-02b.657.9	EDUCATION	Academies: Exam Results	Nicky Morgan	I agree very much with my right hon. Friend. He will want to know that the first wave of sponsored primary academies, which opened in September 2012, has seen the proportion of pupils achieving levels 4 and above in reading, writing and maths increase by 9 percentage points, double the rate of improvement in local authority-maintained schools over the same period.
2015-03-02b.658.0	EDUCATION	Academies: Exam Results	Geoffrey Robinson	The Secretary of State will be aware of the Grace academy in Coventry. She facilitated a meeting with one of her Ministers and we are grateful for that, but she will understand—and I hope will therefore follow it up closely herself—that the proof of the pudding will be in the effective action taken to deal with the situation. We have no indication that it is improving and the career prospects of 1,000 young children are being put at risk.
2015-03-02b.658.1	EDUCATION	Academies: Exam Results	Nicky Morgan	I was pleased to facilitate the hon. Gentleman’s meeting with the Minister in question, one of my excellent team of Ministers. We will of course always maintain a close watch over all academies and their results. He might like to know that secondary converter academies perform well above average, with 64% of pupils achieving five or more good GCSEs in 2014 compared with 54% in local authority schools.
2015-03-02b.658.2	EDUCATION	Academies: Exam Results	Andrew Stephenson	Late last week, it was announced that Pendle primary academy in Brierfield has been rated as good with outstanding features and outstanding behaviour by Ofsted, a big turnaround for a school deemed to be in need of major improvement just two years ago, before it became an academy. Will my right hon. Friend join me in congratulating the principal, Mrs Burnside, all the staff and the outstanding Nelson and Colne college, which sponsors Pendle primary academy?
2015-03-02b.658.3	EDUCATION	Academies: Exam Results	Nicky Morgan	I thank my hon. Friend for that question. It is an absolute pleasure to congratulate the head teacher, Mrs Burnside, and all the staff, governors and pupils on their hard work in achieving those spectacular results. I greatly enjoyed my recent visit to schools in Pendle.
2015-03-02b.658.5	EDUCATION	Care Costs: Disabled Children	Liz McInnes	What recent assessment she has made of the effect of the cost of child care on the household disposable income of parents with disabled children.
2015-03-02b.658.6	EDUCATION	Care Costs: Disabled Children	Sam Gyimah	This Government have introduced the biggest reforms to special educational needs and disabilities provisions in 30 years, reforms that enjoy cross-party support. Every disabled child, like all other three and four-year-olds, is entitled to a free 15 hours of early education, and the situation is the same for disadvantaged two-year-olds. In addition, when tax-free child care is introduced, parents of disabled children will get double the allowance of other families at £4,000. The disabled child element of universal credit is £4,300, on top of all the other benefits parents of disabled children receive.
2015-03-02b.658.7	EDUCATION	Care Costs: Disabled Children	Liz McInnes	The cross-party parliamentary inquiry into child care for disabled children found that 92% of parents with disabled children reported difficulties in finding suitable child care for their children. As child care costs overall continue to rise, particularly for disabled children, that figure can only continue to grow. What is the Minister doing to ensure sufficient places for disabled children?
2015-03-02b.659.0	EDUCATION	Care Costs: Disabled Children	Sam Gyimah	On the cost of child care in general, let me point out that the Labour party left us with the highest child care costs in the OECD; they went up by 50% when it was in government. This Government have been helping parents with the cost of child care, particular parents with disabled children, whom the hon. Lady mentioned. Local authorities have a legal duty to secure sufficient child care for working parents in their area. As far as free entitlement is concerned, local authorities that set the rate they pay for free entitlement can pay for additional hours, on an hourly basis and tailored to individual children, from the dedicated schools grant.
2015-03-02b.659.1	EDUCATION	Care Costs: Disabled Children	Alison McGovern	The Minister’s words to parents of children with disabilities are just that. Can he explain the reality of the situation for families who have a child with a disability when the proportion of local authorities reporting that they have sufficient places for children with disabilities has fallen by seven points in just one year to only a fifth? That is the reality for parents of children with disabilities. Can he please explain what happened last year?
2015-03-02b.659.2	EDUCATION	Care Costs: Disabled Children	Sam Gyimah	Of course the cost of child care for children with disabilities is high, because the ratios are higher. They often need one-to-one care, and sometimes more. When children have really complex needs, staff need additional training in order to provide that care. The reason tax-free child care has been doubled to £4,000 from the £2,000 for every other family is to give parents the additional financial power they will need to provide more child care. It has also been extended from age 12, so the parent of a disabled child can now access tax-free child care until their child is 17. That also applies to specialist care regulated by the Care Quality Commission.
2015-03-02b.659.4	EDUCATION	Grammar Schools	Douglas Carswell	If she will undertake a reassessment of the merits of grammar schools.
2015-03-02b.659.5	EDUCATION	Grammar Schools	Nicky Morgan	The law prohibits the establishment of new grammar schools, but we fully support the right of all good schools to expand, and that applies to grammar schools too. What is most important is that all children have access to a good local school, and we are committed to delivering that through our academies and free schools programmes.
2015-03-02b.659.6	EDUCATION	Grammar Schools	Douglas Carswell	Does the Minister have much sympathy with the argument that academically selective schools in the state sector can enhance social mobility?
2015-03-02b.659.7	EDUCATION	Grammar Schools	Nicky Morgan	I know that the hon. Gentleman’s party says that it has a clear policy on grammar schools—that is a relief, because at least it has a clear policy on something. Does he agree with his party’s leader, who said that the party was not going to publish its manifesto until as late as practically possible? May I suggest 8 May ?
2015-03-02b.660.0	EDUCATION	Grammar Schools	Fiona Mactaggart	Why is the Secretary of State pursuing a policy that is attacking grammar schools with large sixth forms, which are being underfunded for their A-level provision?
2015-03-02b.660.1	EDUCATION	Grammar Schools	Nicky Morgan	I am well aware of that issue, which has been raised in a Westminster Hall debate in recent weeks. We fully support sixth forms and want to see them continue, but the hon. Lady will be aware of the economic condition in which her party left this country.
2015-03-02b.660.2	EDUCATION	Grammar Schools	Heidi Alexander	How can the Secretary of State be so sure that expanding grammar schools will enhance opportunities for our most deprived young people and not just perpetuate and reinforce existing social privileges?
2015-03-02b.660.3	EDUCATION	Grammar Schools	Nicky Morgan	The hon. Lady might have misheard my answer to a previous question. This Government are in favour of expanding all good schools. I think that she will want to recognise that we have 1 million more children in good or outstanding schools as a result of this Government’s education policies.
2015-03-02b.660.4	EDUCATION	Grammar Schools	Charlie Elphicke	May I welcome the Secretary of State’s announcement on extending grammar school provision in Kent? Does she agree that grammar schools are an important part of the diversity in our education system that gives parents the best possible choice of the kind of school that suits their children?
2015-03-02b.660.5	EDUCATION	Grammar Schools	Nicky Morgan	I agree with my hon. Friend that parents being able to make the right choice for their child is exactly what we want to see, because they know their child best. I should make it clear that the Department is currently considering the proposals that have been put to us by a school in Kent, and I expect to reach a decision in due course.
2015-03-02b.660.7	EDUCATION	Property Data Survey	Craig Whittaker	If her Department will publish a ranking of the property data survey programme of participant schools.
2015-03-02b.660.8	EDUCATION	Property Data Survey	David Laws	Through the priority school building programme 2, we have used the property data survey to allocate £2 billion to rebuild and refurbish buildings in the worst conditions at 277 schools across the country. We have no plans to publish a ranking of surveyed schools.
2015-03-02b.660.9	EDUCATION	Property Data Survey	Craig Whittaker	The previous Secretary of State said that Calder high school was one of the worst he had seen in England. Similarly, when the Prime Minister came to Todmorden, he pledged money for the rebuilding of Todmorden high school. Despite those assurances, so far neither school has received any money. Will the Minister pledge to do as was initially intended and make transparent the priority listings of all schools surveyed under the property data survey programme so that we can see how robust they are?
2015-03-02b.660.10	EDUCATION	Property Data Survey	David Laws	I know that my hon. Friend is a champion of the schools in his constituency, including the two that he mentions. In addition to the priority school building programme phase 2 funding, we recently announced £4.2 billion of funding for the improvement and maintenance of school buildings over the next three years, and his local authority is able to draw down on those moneys allocated to its area for the schools that he mentions. On the ranking of schools, we have no plans to publish a ranking list of surveyed schools, which could be misleading without taking into account other information supplied by schools and local authorities with their PSBP 2 bids.
2015-03-02b.661.1	EDUCATION	Teacher Work Loads	Kerry McCarthy	What recent discussions she has had with teachers associations and unions on teacher work loads.
2015-03-02b.661.2	EDUCATION	Teacher Work Loads	David Laws	The Secretary of State and I engaged with teachers associations and unions in the discussions about teacher work loads, most recently through the work load challenge. I welcome their contribution to the debate, including through the programme of talks at the Department for Education.
2015-03-02b.661.3	EDUCATION	Teacher Work Loads	Kerry McCarthy	The Government’s own figures show that the average primary teacher is working 60 hours a week. Teachers in Bristol tell me that their work load is at an unsustainable level and that the accountability system in particular has reached absurd levels and demonstrates a profound lack of trust in teachers. Teachers are too often unsung heroes, under-appreciated and overworked. When is the Minister going to let them just get on and do their job?
2015-03-02b.661.4	EDUCATION	Teacher Work Loads	David Laws	The work load burden on teachers, which has been present for some time in this country, including under the Labour Government, is precisely the reason that we established the work load challenge. The hon. Lady will have seen the comprehensive and detailed plan that we published, which we believe will help over time to drive down the unnecessary work load of teachers.
2015-03-02b.661.5	EDUCATION	Teacher Work Loads	Kevin Brennan	As a former teacher, may I say that teacher work load really matters? The 10% increase that was shown up in the work load survey, which the Minister published only after being hounded for some considerable time by the Opposition, is contributing to low morale and to a looming teacher training and recruitment crisis. The response from the Government that he mentioned has been roundly rejected by teachers, thousands of whom have taken the trouble to tell Ministers of the negative impact of Government policy on teacher work loads. Do we not need a new beginning for teachers, with a Government who take seriously the impact that work load pressures are having on teacher morale and on children’s learning?
2015-03-02b.661.6	EDUCATION	Teacher Work Loads	David Laws	I would gently make two points. First, let us look back at some of what has been said by the teacher unions about the Government’s response. The National Association of Head Teachers said that it believes that “the proposals for better planning and greater notice of changes are a step in the right direction. They could do a great deal to improve the quality of education”. Secondly, I do not think the Labour party is in any position to give any lectures about Government communications with teachers. After all, the hon. Gentleman’s boss, the shadow Secretary of State, was recently contacted by one parent teacher group to ask about Labour policy and he replied with eight words: “Stop moaning. Read the speeches. Do some work.” That was the Labour party’s response—hardly constructive engagement.
2015-03-02b.662.1	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Karen Lumley	What assessment she has made of recent trends in the number of pupils taking up STEM subjects.
2015-03-02b.662.2	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Heather Wheeler	What assessment she has made of recent trends in the number of pupils taking up STEM subjects.
2015-03-02b.662.3	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Nick Gibb	Record numbers of students are taking mathematics and the sciences at A-level—15% more students took physics in 2014 than in 2010. Maths is now the single most popular A-level, with an increase of 13% since 2010, but more needs to be done. We need even more young people to take these subjects at A-level. That is why we are supporting the Your Life campaign headed by Edwina Dunn of Dunnhumby, which aims to increase the numbers taking maths and physics A-level by 50% over the next three years.
2015-03-02b.662.4	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Karen Lumley	When I visit engineering companies in Redditch, I find that one of their main issues is attracting apprenticeships or graduates, especially women. Does my hon. Friend agree that along with the take-up of STEM subjects, we need to encourage students to see that careers in engineering are a great choice for all?
2015-03-02b.662.5	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Nick Gibb	Indeed. We want all young people to have the right careers advice so that they take informed decisions about their future and so that they are aware of all the options available—including, as my hon. Friend said, apprenticeships—and of the advantages that studying maths and the sciences to A-level can bring.
2015-03-02b.662.6	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Heather Wheeler	Will my hon. Friend join me in congratulating students from the William Allitt school in my constituency, who have been shortlisted as finalists in the national science and engineering competition, The Big Bang UK young scientists and engineers fair at Birmingham NEC from 11 to 14 March ? This is the UK’s biggest celebration of technology, engineering and maths for young people.
2015-03-02b.662.7	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Nick Gibb	I am pleased to add my congratulations to students from the William Allitt school. The national science and engineering competition, which receives £350,000 of funding from the Government, is an excellent example of a positive initiative that helps to promote and to recognise achievement in STEM subjects. I wish my hon. Friend’s constituents every success in the final stage of the competition, and I look forward to attending the Big Bang fair next week.
2015-03-02b.662.8	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Chi Onwurah	Recent research found that more than a third of schools in Newcastle do not offer triple science at GCSE. Newcastle has a thriving digital and information and communications technology hub, and a history of fantastic scientific achievement such as the recent mitochondrial breakthrough. What is the Minister doing to make sure that every pupil in Newcastle can access triple science if they have the talent to do so?
2015-03-02b.663.0	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Nick Gibb	I share the hon. Lady’s desire that every school should offer three separate sciences at GCSE; that is very important. That is why the EBacc is such an important measure. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said, we have seen a 70% increase in the numbers taking those core academic subjects, which are vital to keeping opportunities open for young people.
2015-03-02b.663.1	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Bill Esterson	The Minister says that he wants more young people to be taking maths and science subjects, but does he acknowledge that there is a chronic shortage of teachers applying for STEM subjects? Why has that happened, and what action are the Government taking to reverse this serious problem for young people and for the wider economy?
2015-03-02b.663.2	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Nick Gibb	The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. That is why the Prime Minister recently announced a new £67 million package of measures over the next five years to increase the skills and subject knowledge of 15,000 existing maths and physics teachers and to recruit an additional 2,500 teachers over the course of the next Parliament. As the hon. Gentleman will know, bursaries of up to £25,000 are available to trainee teachers with high degrees in maths and physics. As he will also know, some 17% of teacher trainees now hold a first-class degree and 73% of current trainee teachers hold a 2:1 degree or higher.
2015-03-02b.663.3	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Peter Luff	The excellent new curriculums for computing and for design and technology can do much to inspire young people to take up STEM subjects, but further to the Minister’s last answer, can he reassure me that we recruit enough teachers to teach these important subjects?
2015-03-02b.663.4	EDUCATION	STEM Subjects	Nick Gibb	I can provide my hon. Friend with that reassurance. We are offering generous bursaries, including in computer science, to attract the highest quality graduates into teaching.
2015-03-02b.663.6	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Graham Stuart	What assessment she has made of which of her Department’s policies since May 2010 has been most successful in achieving its original objectives.
2015-03-02b.663.7	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Nicky Morgan	There have been many outstanding achievements during this Parliament, but I particularly highlight our reforms to raise standards in schools as a key success. This has led to more children than ever before—as I said, almost 1 million pupils—attending a school rated good or outstanding by Ofsted.
2015-03-02b.663.8	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Graham Stuart	We currently have the fastest expanding economy in the western world, which is obviously extremely welcome, but the improvement in standards in our schools has come about because of recruitment of the best possible graduates into the profession. What more can the Government do to ensure that these graduates come into our schools, particularly those in rural and coastal areas?
2015-03-02b.664.0	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Nicky Morgan	I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. We now need to see excellent teaching right the way across the system in every school. Every child’s life chances are only as good as the quality of teaching they receive. That is why the Prime Minister recently announced that our manifesto would include a national teaching service to encourage more good teachers to enter the profession and to be represented in all schools right across the country.
2015-03-02b.664.1	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Barry Sheerman	Any reputable organisation evaluating its success employs external consultants or impartial people, or at least consults its consumers. When I go round schools in this country, as I do very regularly, I find a devastated landscape. Does the Secretary of State agree? I find unaccountable schools, a top-down culture, a restricted curriculum, and a very low regard for this Secretary of State.
2015-03-02b.664.2	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Nicky Morgan	I thank the hon. Gentleman for his most charming remarks, but no, I completely disagree about the landscape that he finds. I find excellent schools up and down the country; brilliant, highly qualified teachers working incredibly hard; rigorous academic standards; and a tough but worthy new curriculum that is introducing subjects such as coding and computing, as we have heard. Now our task is to make sure that excellence is spread right the way across the country.
2015-03-02b.664.3	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Annette Brooke	School sport partnerships were scrapped very early on in 2010 and have been replaced with various measures, which I am very pleased to welcome. May I have an assurance that something has now been set, that it will continue and that we can build back to where we were with the excellent partnerships?
2015-03-02b.664.4	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Nicky Morgan	The introduction of the sport premium means that we have given substantial funds directly to heads and teachers to spend in their school. The number of sports and the amount of time that pupils are spending on physical activity are going up each week. The Prime Minister has made a commitment to keep that funding until 2020. On a school visit last week, I saw that a fantastic co-ordinator was being employed to get all the young people moving.
2015-03-02b.664.5	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Tristram Hunt	In 2010 the Conservative party manifesto promised to “close the attainment gap between the richest and poorest”, so can the Secretary of State tell the House whether, over the past two years, since the roll-out of coalition policy, the attainment gap between pupils on free school meals and their better-off classmates has narrowed or widened?
2015-03-02b.664.6	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Nicky Morgan	I can say to the hon. Gentleman, without equivocation, that it has narrowed. The 2014 key stage 4 results show that the gap between disadvantaged and other pupils has narrowed by almost 4% since 2012.
2015-03-02b.665.0	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Tristram Hunt	Oh dear, it is yet another reprimand for the Secretary of State from the UK Statistics Authority, because the attainment gap is widening on her watch. According to Teach First, “things are getting worse for poorer children, instead of better.” When it comes to education, at the end of this Parliament this Government have failed. There are more unqualified teachers, failing free schools, chaos and confusion in the school system, falling youth apprenticeships, a teacher recruitment crisis, class sizes rocketing and too many pupils taught in schools that are not judged good. Is that not the reason that, come 8 May , we will have a Labour Government ready to clean up this mess, invest in and reform our schools, and offer every child an outstanding education?
2015-03-02b.665.1	EDUCATION	Policy Objectives	Nicky Morgan	It might have helped if the hon. Gentleman could have said any of that with a straight face, but he could not because he knows it is all utter drivel. We see fewer unqualified teachers, more children educated in schools rated good by Ofsted and the gap between disadvantaged and advantaged children falling. As we saw with the Labour party’s tuition fee policy announcement last week, Labour’s education policies are a farce, like scenes from “Nuns on the Run”.
2015-03-02b.665.3	EDUCATION	Troops to Teachers Programme	Caroline Dinenage	What assessment she has made of the potential benefits to pupils of the expansion of the Troops to Teachers programme.
2015-03-02b.665.4	EDUCATION	Troops to Teachers Programme	Edward Timpson	Service leavers have a wealth of skills and experiences that are transferable to classrooms, including teamwork, leadership— [ Interruption. ]
2015-03-02b.665.5	EDUCATION	Troops to Teachers Programme	Mr Speaker	Order. There is very discordant noise in the Chamber. A very respected Minister, Mr Timpson, is endeavouring to answer a question and I think pupils in the average classroom around the country would behave rather better. I remind the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) , in all gentleness and charity, that he is something of an elder statesman in this House and we look to him to set an example to other colleagues.
2015-03-02b.665.6	EDUCATION	Troops to Teachers Programme	Edward Timpson	Thank you, Mr Speaker. Anyone would imagine that there is an election on the horizon. There are 84 trainees on the Troops to Teachers scheme and the expansion of the programme allows even more talented service leavers to make an important contribution to our children’s education.
2015-03-02b.665.7	EDUCATION	Troops to Teachers Programme	Caroline Dinenage	My Gosport constituency has very strong links to the armed forces, particularly in Navy engineering. Does my hon. Friend agree that schemes such as Troops for Training can only help to spread expertise to students in my area?
2015-03-02b.665.8	EDUCATION	Troops to Teachers Programme	Edward Timpson	I absolutely agree. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State recently visited Bristol to see for herself the latest cohort being trained, and she was hugely impressed by both their calibre and their commitment. Along with my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) , I strongly encourage schools in Gosport and elsewhere to contact the university of Brighton to secure a trainee for this September and benefit from the next tranche of Troops to Teachers.
2015-03-02b.666.1	EDUCATION	Modern Languages	Nigel Evans	What steps she is taking to encourage pupils to study modern languages.
2015-03-02b.666.2	EDUCATION	Modern Languages	Nick Gibb	The new curriculum requires all maintained primary schools to teach a foreign language to pupils from the age of seven. The number of entries for a modern language GCSE has increased by 20% since 2010 due to the introduction of the English baccalaureate performance measure, a major step towards remedying the enormous damage to foreign language teaching in schools caused by the previous Labour Government’s 2004 decision about the curriculum.
2015-03-02b.666.3	EDUCATION	Modern Languages	Nigel Evans	“Ya khochu govorit’ svobono po-russki”, possibly means “I want to speak Russian fluently.” For somebody of my age, it is an ambition I might hope to reach before I die, but youngsters tend to be more adept at learning foreign languages. Could we do more to encourage even more youngsters to learn Russian, Arabic and Mandarin not only to open doors in their minds, but to make their worth even more attractive in the employment market?
2015-03-02b.666.4	EDUCATION	Modern Languages	Nick Gibb	Spasibo, Mr Speaker. The number taking Russian GCSE has increased from 1,500 in 2010-11 to about 2,000 in 2013-14. I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of languages for the economy, and for learning about other cultures. According to a report by the CBI published in 2014, 65% of businesses say they value foreign language skills, most importantly for building relations with overseas customers.
2015-03-02b.666.5	EDUCATION	Modern Languages	Gisela Stuart	On the subject of businesses and foreign languages, what work is the Minister doing to get companies more closely involved with secondary schools to make learning foreign languages relevant, and to put the business application and the real-life experience together?
2015-03-02b.666.6	EDUCATION	Modern Languages	Nick Gibb	The hon. Lady makes a very good point. The careers and enterprise company recently announced by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is doing precisely that—inspiring schools and young people to engage with business in considering their future careers. The importance of that has been shown by other surveys. The Economist this week points to a 2012 British Chambers of Commerce survey of 8,000 British companies, reporting that 96% of them had no foreign language speakers. In a country like Britain—an international trading nation—that is a disgrace and something we are working hard to remedy.
2015-03-02b.666.7	EDUCATION	Modern Languages	David Heath	Are not our horizons still too limited? With the advent of IT and refinements in distance learning, should not any child in any school be able to learn any language?
2015-03-02b.666.8	EDUCATION	Modern Languages	Nick Gibb	I agree with my hon. Friend that that should be possible, and we are doing everything we can to encourage more young people to study a foreign language. The problem is that a decision was taken by the previous Labour Government in 2004 to remove the compulsory nature of taking languages to GCSE, and that has had a devastating effect on the numbers doing so. We have reversed that trend.
2015-03-02b.667.1	EDUCATION	Sixth-form Colleges	Kelvin Hopkins	If she will take steps to promote the establishment of more sixth-form colleges.
2015-03-02b.667.2	EDUCATION	Sixth-form Colleges	Nicholas Boles	We have supported the creation of new sixth-form schools, such as Exeter Mathematics school, the London Academy of Excellence in Newham and Sir Isaac Newton sixth-form school in Norwich, but we do not currently plan to promote the establishment of more sixth-form colleges.
2015-03-02b.667.3	EDUCATION	Sixth-form Colleges	Kelvin Hopkins	The Minister will have seen the statistics showing that sixth-form colleges outperform other providers of 16-to-18 education on every measure of academic success and in value for money. Does he not therefore agree that an intelligent Government would seek actively to establish many more sixth-form colleges, instead of allowing their numbers to reduce?
2015-03-02b.667.4	EDUCATION	Sixth-form Colleges	Nicholas Boles	I share the hon. Gentleman’s support for and admiration of the work of sixth-form colleges, which are generally fantastic institutions producing great results, but I disagree with him on this obsession with particular forms and structures. I agree with him that schools that are dedicated to teaching 16 to 19-year-olds in sixth forms do very well, which is why we have supported the creation of so many sixth-form schools, but whether they are schools or colleges is a second-order issue.
2015-03-02b.667.5	EDUCATION	Sixth-form Colleges	Gerald Howarth	I can assure my hon. Friend that in the Sixth Form college in Farnborough we have one of the finest structures in the country. However, sixth-form colleges are facing a challenge because they are eligible for VAT, unlike sixth forms in mainstream schools. Will my hon. Friend do something to remedy that anomaly because it is really having an effect on not only my sixth-form college but many others around the country?
2015-03-02b.667.6	EDUCATION	Sixth-form Colleges	Nicholas Boles	We absolutely recognise this “anomaly”, as my hon. Friend calls it, which also applies to further education colleges. It goes along with other freedoms that schools and academies do not have—sixth-form colleges have the freedom to borrow in a way that academies do not—but we nevertheless recognise that this issue is of concern to a lot of sixth-form colleges, and we are actively discussing ways in which we might ameliorate it. However, to get rid of the problem entirely would cost many tens of millions of pounds, which would require us to identify savings that we cannot find at the moment.
2015-03-02b.667.7	EDUCATION	Sixth-form Colleges	Nicholas Dakin	I understand that the Minister, who recognises this “anomaly”, has in his rather amiable way when visiting sixth-form colleges been encouraging some of them to consider going for academy status. When that happens, however, his noble friend Lord Nash says, “This isn’t on mate”. Which is right? Can colleges go for academy status or not?
2015-03-02b.668.0	EDUCATION	Sixth-form Colleges	Nicholas Boles	Lord Nash I are not only great friends but we agree entirely on this issue. It is legally possible under existing provisions for a college to convert to academy status, but there are issues around how the VAT will be dealt with, and how any debt that it has already amassed will be dealt with on its balance sheet. Those issues are tricky, but we are looking at them.
2015-03-02b.668.1	EDUCATION	Sixth-form Colleges	Yvonne Fovargue	Successive rounds of cuts to sixth-form and further education colleges are having a devastating effect. One principal of a college in the west country—a college recently judged by Ofsted as outstanding and a beacon college—recently told The Times Educational Supplement that “cuts have taken us to the edge”, and added that any further cuts would threaten the services the college offers. Will the Minister commit to Labour’s pledge to protect the education budget in real terms?
2015-03-02b.668.2	EDUCATION	Sixth-form Colleges	Nicholas Boles	I will not commit to a pledge that is as unfunded as every pledge that Labour has made since 2010. Labour Members think that they will pay for all this out of a tax on bankers’ bonuses that has so far been used about 27 times. There was no money left according to the former Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and that is because Labour has absolutely no idea how to run a budget.
2015-03-02b.668.4	EDUCATION	College of Teaching	Charlotte Leslie	What support her Department is providing for the establishment of a college of teaching.
2015-03-02b.668.5	EDUCATION	College of Teaching	Nicky Morgan	Nothing in schools matters more than good teaching, and we are proud to have so many dedicated professionals in our classrooms. An independent professional body could play a valuable part in raising the status and standards of teaching, and give teachers vital support. Our consultation, “A world-class teaching profession”, outlined our commitment to offer support to those seeking to establish such a body, independent of Government, and we will publish our response to the consultation shortly.
2015-03-02b.668.6	EDUCATION	College of Teaching	Charlotte Leslie	The Government’s offer of funding to help a college start up is welcome, but can the Secretary of State reassure me that it will come with no strings attached so that teachers themselves can drive what the college is, and that she will not seek to impose things such as teacher licensing schemes top-down, before this fledgling college has even left the nest?
2015-03-02b.668.7	EDUCATION	College of Teaching	Nicky Morgan	If my hon. Friend knows anything about me she will know that I am not in favour of anything that is top-down, and I agree that the proposed body must be established and owned by teachers for teachers. To be successful, a college of teaching must be free from Government control. Our recent consultation made a commitment to offer support—whether financial or otherwise—if that would be helpful, but the independence of the college from Government remains our overriding concern and our support must not compromise that.
2015-03-02b.669.1	EDUCATION	Teacher Work Load	Julie Hilling	What steps she is taking to ease teachers’ work loads.
2015-03-02b.669.2	EDUCATION	Teacher Work Load	David Laws	Reducing unnecessary work load is a priority for this Government. In October 2014, we launched the Workload Challenge, asking teachers for views on how to tackle unnecessary work load. On 6 February , we published our response with a comprehensive programme of action.
2015-03-02b.669.3	EDUCATION	Teacher Work Load	Julie Hilling	Teachers across Bolton West are telling me that they love teaching but are thinking of leaving the profession because they cannot tolerate the work load any longer. Will the Minister set a target for the reduction in work load and limit working hours, rather than just monitoring them?
2015-03-02b.669.4	EDUCATION	Teacher Work Load	David Laws	The risk of that is picking out an arbitrary number, but we are clear that we want to see consequences for the actions we are putting in place, and reduce figures for unnecessary work load. We are commissioning biannual surveys to measure the effectiveness of the policy. I hope that the Labour party will sign up to some of the measures included in the conclusions of the Workload Challenge, including the protocol that would set out minimum lead-in times for significant changes in curriculum qualifications and accountability, which has been very much welcomed by teachers.
2015-03-02b.669.6	EDUCATION	Alumni Support	Ian Swales	How many state secondary schools and colleges in England engage alumni to support students.
2015-03-02b.669.7	EDUCATION	Alumni Support	Nicholas Boles	We encourage all schools to involve former students in advising young people about career opportunities and the course choices that can lead to them. Future First does excellent work in helping schools to do this.
2015-03-02b.669.8	EDUCATION	Alumni Support	Ian Swales	St Peter’s school in my constituency is in one of the most deprived communities in the country, yet it has produced the current head of performance engineering at the Williams Formula 1 team and the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) . Does the Minister agree that such alumni can play a valuable role in raising aspiration in the next generation?
2015-03-02b.669.9	EDUCATION	Alumni Support	Nicholas Boles	I agree with my hon. Friend absolutely. It is hard to know who I admire more: my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells or the other gentleman he refers to. One of the key tasks of the new careers company being set up by Christine Hodgson is to help every school in the country to have an enterprise adviser, a current or recently retired local executive, who can help the school and the students identify opportunities in the area for their future career.
2015-03-02b.670.1	EDUCATION	Sex and Relationship Education	Simon Wright	If she will ensure that all children receive age-appropriate sex and relationship education.
2015-03-02b.670.2	EDUCATION	Sex and Relationship Education	Nick Gibb	Sex and relationship education must be taught in all maintained secondary schools; we believe that most secondary academies and many primary schools also teach it. Any school teaching SRE must have regard to the Secretary of State’s “Sex and Relationship Education Guidance”. The guidance makes it clear that all sex and relationship education should be age-appropriate, and that schools should ensure that young people develop positive values and a moral framework that will guide their decisions, judgments and behaviour.
2015-03-02b.670.3	EDUCATION	Sex and Relationship Education	Simon Wright	Will the Minister consider that the ongoing revelations over child sexual exploitation, the explicit content on new technologies widely available to children, and the warnings of the deputy Children’s Commissioner and the Education Committee among others together make an overwhelming case for the urgent introduction of mandatory age-appropriate sex and relationship education, starting at primary school?
2015-03-02b.670.4	EDUCATION	Sex and Relationship Education	Nick Gibb	We are considering the report of the Education Committee very carefully and will respond to it in due course. We believe that all schools should teach personal, social, health and economic education and, within that, SRE. Indeed, the introduction to the new national curriculum makes that explicitly clear. What is important is not whether PSHE is statutory, but the quality of the teaching. That is our focus, and we are working with the PSHE Association and other expert bodies to ensure that teachers have the best resources to teach these very sensitive issues.
2015-03-02b.670.6	EDUCATION	Teacher Recruitment: Armed Forces	Philip Hollobone	What progress has been made on attracting former members of the armed forces to become teachers.
2015-03-02b.670.7	EDUCATION	Teacher Recruitment: Armed Forces	Edward Timpson	There are currently two cohorts of former service leavers on the Troops to Teachers programme, totalling 84 trainees. The university of Brighton is proactively working with the Department for Education and the Ministry of Defence to promote the expansion of the scheme through a targeted marketing and recruitment campaign, including attendance at recruitment fairs and MOD resettlement centres, as well as promotion through a variety of online and other publications.
2015-03-02b.670.8	EDUCATION	Teacher Recruitment: Armed Forces	Philip Hollobone	Those who served in Her Majesty’s armed forces represent Britain at its very best. Getting these individuals into our schools needs to be a key priority for any Government. Can the Minister supercharge this policy and put rocket boosters under it so that many more troops are turned into teachers?
2015-03-02b.670.9	EDUCATION	Teacher Recruitment: Armed Forces	Edward Timpson	My hon. Friend’s long-standing support for this policy is extremely gratefully received. He will be pleased to hear there has been a huge interest in the latest cohort, which will take up its training in September this year. It is our intention to do what we can to expand the programme in the future for the very good reasons my hon. Friend has given.
2015-03-02b.671.1	EDUCATION	Teach First Scheme	Richard Harrington	If she will encourage and extend the use of the Teach First scheme.
2015-03-02b.671.2	EDUCATION	Teach First Scheme	Nick Gibb	Teach First has made a real difference to the education and life chances of thousands of children in some of the most disadvantaged areas in our country. Since the Government came to office, we have more than doubled the number of trainees on the programme and spread its reach to every region in the country. For 2015-16, we have expanded the programme again. Funding has been allocated for 2,000 trainees, 33% up on last year. More than 50% of the secondary allocation will focus on priority subjects: maths, science, modern languages, computing, and design and technology.
2015-03-02b.671.3	EDUCATION	Teach First Scheme	Richard Harrington	I thank the Minister for that comprehensive answer. On a recent visit to the absolutely splendid Grove academy in Watford, it was brought to my attention that it can be difficult for the school, and for Watford schools in general, to attract staff because two miles down the road, with London weighting as it is, people receive £2,500 a year more for the same job. Given that Watford is demographically and occupationally similar to most London suburbs, will the Minister look at London weighting in this respect, so that Watford jobs become more competitive with London jobs next door?
2015-03-02b.671.4	EDUCATION	Teach First Scheme	Nick Gibb	My hon. Friend raised these issues when I visited Watford and a number of schools there recently. The pay reforms we have introduced over the last two years have given schools greater flexibility to decide how much they can pay a teacher and how quickly pay progresses. Our reforms are providing schools with the discretion they need to address any school-level recruitment and retention problems they may have. However, as my hon. Friend also knows, decisions about the definitions of inner and outer London and the London fringe area are ultimately a matter for the independent School Teachers Review Body.
2015-03-02b.671.5	EDUCATION	Teach First Scheme	Mr Speaker	It is good that we have got through all the substantive questions on the Order Paper.
2015-03-02b.671.7	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Bob Russell	If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.
2015-03-02b.671.8	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	As this is the last Education Question Time of this Parliament, I thank colleagues in all parts of the House for their questions, though I particularly thank all staff and governors at the thousands of schools up and down this country who work so hard every day to prepare our young people for life in modern Britain. In this Parliament, the Government have established more than 4,200 academies, 255 free schools, 37 studio schools and 37 university technical colleges. More than 100,000 more six-year-olds are able to read because of our focus on phonics, and we have introduced the pupil premium, worth £2.5 billion this year. Our plan for education is working.
2015-03-02b.672.0	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Bob Russell	I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that answer, but one thing that the Government have not done is introduce a holistic approach to education for life. If we are talking about positive values and life skills, is it not time that first aid training was made a requirement in the school curriculum?
2015-03-02b.672.1	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	I thank the hon. Gentleman for spotting one of the things that we have not yet achieved in this Parliament. I agree with him that first aid skills are very important, and I was discussing that only this morning with Natasha Jones, who has been named Tesco community mum of the year for setting up a baby resuscitation project. We also welcome the work of expert organisations such as the British Heart Foundation to support schools in this aspect of teaching and we have been working with the Department of Health on helping schools to procure defibrillators at a reduced price.
2015-03-02b.672.2	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Heidi Alexander	Today is national secondary offer day, yet 24% of the country’s secondary schools are full or over capacity. Given that this Government have wasted £240 million on free school places in areas without any real need for them, what does the Secretary of State say to parents whose children are being crammed into schools that are over capacity?
2015-03-02b.672.3	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	What I say to the hon. Lady, and therefore to anyone who wants to ask questions about this, is that when her party was in government, it stripped 200,000 places at the time of a baby boom and allowed uncontrolled immigration. At the last national offer day— [ Interruption. ] I suggest that she waits to find out what the offers are this year, but at the last national offer day, 82.5% of pupils were offered a place at the highest preference school and 95.5% were offered a place at one of the top three; and of course, seven out of 10 free schools have been opened in areas of basic need.
2015-03-02b.672.4	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Charlotte Leslie	Little Fatima at Fonthill school in Southmead made two years’ reading progress in just 16 weeks thanks to the “Read on. Get on” scheme. What support are the Government giving to reading recovery schemes such as this?
2015-03-02b.672.5	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nick Gibb	One of the purposes of the phonics check, which we introduced in 2012, is to identify early on those children who are still struggling with the basic reading skill of decoding. We expect schools to focus their resources on helping those children, which is why they retake the check at the end of year 2 to ensure that no child slips through the net. As a result of our policy on reading and the introduction of the phonics check in 2012, 102,000 six-year-olds are today reading more effectively than they would otherwise have done had Labour stayed in office.
2015-03-02b.672.6	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Andrew Gwynne	Given that two secondary academies in my constituency have recently been judged inadequate by Ofsted—one having previously been judged as outstanding, the other as good—the Secretary of State will understand that many of those parents would like to see her working closely and quickly with those schools to get them back to where they need to be. What action is she going to take to ensure that those children in Stockport and in Tameside receive the life chances they deserve?
2015-03-02b.673.0	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman that a good education is exactly that: it is all about enhancing the life chances of all the young people at those schools. If he wants to let us have the names of those schools, I am of course happy to follow the issue up with DFE officials and the regional schools commissioner, as well as working with the heads directly.
2015-03-02b.673.1	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nigel Mills	On that subject, does the Secretary of State agree that improving the links with local businesses and schools is key? Will she therefore welcome the interest that David Nieper Ltd has shown in sponsoring Alfreton Grange arts college?
2015-03-02b.673.2	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	I entirely agree with my hon. Friend’s points, and I would like to congratulate the company he mentioned on its sponsorship. Professional standards of governance in schools are vital, and we want to make sure that governing boards are focused on recruiting people with the skills for the role. People from business have valuable transferable skills and benefit from board-level experience. I want to see more employers encouraging and supporting their staff to volunteer as governors. This is something I have discussed with the CBI.
2015-03-02b.673.3	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Tristram Hunt	Why does the Conservative party not value education? Why is the Secretary of State happy to see her budget slashed under any future Tory Government? Why will she not make a commitment, as the Labour party has done, to protecting the education budget in real terms rather than delivering a 10% cut to schools over the next Parliament?
2015-03-02b.673.4	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	Why will the hon. Gentleman not secure from his party leader a per pupil funding? Under our spending plans, the next Conservative Government will be spending £590 million more on schools than his party will.
2015-03-02b.673.5	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Ian Swales	All Durham’s secondary schools were rated good or outstanding in 2013, and there was such a surplus of places that one school closed. That school became the home of the Durham free school, and I noticed that the Secretary of State was in Durham confirming its closure just last week. Why does she think her Department allowed this waste of taxpayers’ money, and what lessons has it learned?
2015-03-02b.673.6	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	I was pleased to meet some of the parents from the Durham free school, and we discussed various interests. I made it clear to them that my Department operates on the basis of putting the interests of children absolutely first. We will of course look at all the lessons to be learned from the way in which the application was processed and considered in the first place. Nevertheless, 24% of open or free schools have already been judged outstanding by Ofsted, and more have been judged as good. This is a successful programme, but there will inevitably be some issues, and we have taken swift action to deal with problems in this case.
2015-03-02b.674.0	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Kate Hoey	What help can the Minister give to the Archbishop Sumner primary school—a school in my constituency that has been rated outstanding by Ofsted—which has been trying to become a two-form entry school for some years? Lambeth seems to have taken against that idea, despite it not affecting any of the local schools. Will the Secretary of State get involved in this issue?
2015-03-02b.674.1	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	I thank the hon. Lady for raising the matter with me. I would be happy to take a look. We can take further details, arrange a meeting and work out ways to raise this issue with the local authority. On the basis of previous conversations, I think both she and I want the same thing, which is for all young people to get the best possible education to set them up for life.
2015-03-02b.674.2	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Adam Afriyie	We have some of the best schools in the country in my Windsor constituency—and perhaps one or two of them are slightly over-represented here in the House of Commons! I speak, of course, of Windsor Boys’ school. Will the Secretary of State commend Windsor Girls’ school for forming a joint academy status with Windsor Boys’ school?
2015-03-02b.674.3	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	I add my congratulations to the two schools on becoming academies. On this side, we firmly believe that academy status puts power in the hands of heads and teachers who know how best to serve their pupils and give them the best possible start in life.
2015-03-02b.674.4	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Barry Sheerman	Does the Secretary of State agree that all our children should have a full chance of exploiting all their talents in our educational system? If so, why is she cutting further education again when FE is so important to the less privileged in our country? Why has nothing been mentioned in this Question Time about special educational needs or autism or about the fact that so many parents in this country have no chance of help?
2015-03-02b.674.5	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	The hon. Gentleman raised an important point at the end of his question, but to be honest, I am here to answer the questions, not to ask them. It is up to hon. Members to raise the issues, whether they be about special educational needs, autism, disability or any other topic. The Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson) , would answer any such questions brilliantly, as he always does. On FE, I have already explained that this Government have had to take difficult financial decisions as a result of the legacy that we inherited. I think that the hon. Gentleman would agree that the decision to prioritise spending on early years and on schools for children up to 16 is right because that will be of most benefit to our young people.
2015-03-02b.674.6	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nigel Evans	We may not have Eton in the Ribble Valley, but all our schools are of an incredibly high standard. To make parental choice effective, we must ensure that parents are not stung when youngsters decide to go past their nearest school to a grammar, a faith-based school or, indeed, a non-faith-based school. They might want to go and learn Russian. Will the Secretary of State ensure that she talks to the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government so that we make parental choice effective?
2015-03-02b.675.0	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	My hon. Friend has raised this matter before. I know that he has campaigned on it, and that he feels passionately about it. I should be happy to talk to Ministers in the Department for Communities and Local Government. I believe that faith schools play an important role in our education system, and I support them. As my hon. Friend is aware from discussions that we have had, I want to encourage all local authorities to arrange school transport flexibly, creatively and innovatively, and to make the best possible use of any gaps in their existing school bus provision.
2015-03-02b.675.1	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Kelvin Hopkins	I understand that the Minister recently visited Shanghai to look at the education system in China. In this respect, the Chinese are more successful than we are in many ways. What is the key difference that makes China’s socialist state system so much more successful than our system, in terms of classrooms, culture and teaching methods, and what did the Minister learn from that?
2015-03-02b.675.2	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nick Gibb	In maths, 15-year-olds in Shanghai are three years ahead of 15-year-olds in this country in the programme for international student assessment tables. We look very carefully at international evidence, which is why we sent 71 teachers to Shanghai to study teaching methods there. Now 30 Shanghai teachers are in 20 primary schools in this country, teaching our teachers how to improve their maths teaching. They have a mastery model. Pupils face the front, learn their tables, concentrate for 35 minutes, and use textbooks. We are learning from the best in the world.
2015-03-02b.675.3	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	Order. I feel sure that there will be a full debate on this matter on one of the long summer evenings that lie ahead of us.
2015-03-02b.675.4	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Graham Stuart	Will the Secretary of State commit himself to maintaining a focus on social justice and rooting for those who do not go to university? Will he reject out of hand a policy that has been described by the New Statesman as “dire”, by Martin Lewis as “financially illiterate”, and by The Times as Labour’s worst policy? Tuition fees cuts amounting to £2.7 billion would subsidise the very richest at a time when we need to do more for the very poorest.
2015-03-02b.675.5	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head. We are taking money from the welfare budget to pay for apprenticeships that will set our young people up in life, while the Labour party is taking money away from pensioners in order to fund a misguided policy on tuition fees. According to the vice-chancellor of my own university, Loughborough, that policy would make 500 people redundant. Which 500 people in Loughborough does the shadow Secretary of State think should be made redundant?
2015-03-02b.675.6	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Fiona Mactaggart	I have had a letter from the head teacher of the excellent Baylis Court secondary school in my constituency, pointing out that the cost of payroll changes involving, for instance, national insurance will be £222,000 next year, without funding. Moreover, the education support grant is to be cut by £53 a head. What difference will that makes to the girls’ learning?
2015-03-02b.676.0	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	As we have seen during the current Parliament, schools have been able to raise standards at a time of straitened budgets. I have every faith in them. I believe that they will continue to raise their standards, and that all the young people in that school will benefit..
2015-03-02b.676.1	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Mike Freer	The Secretary of State has been very supportive of the protection of schools against terrorism attacks, and my constituents and I are very grateful for that. Will she update the House on progress in the funding of counter-terrorism measures at independent Jewish schools?
2015-03-02b.676.2	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	My hon. Friend has raised an extremely important point. I do not want any young people to feel frightened of attending school or of their journey to and from school, and, sadly, that applies particularly to members of the Jewish community at present. I have had discussions with a number of Jewish organisations about the funds that are required and the estimates that they have provided.
2015-03-02b.676.3	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Gisela Stuart	Given that 30% of Birmingham’s population are under the age of 15, there are enormous pressures on school places, which will continue. However, there is no correlation between teacher training places and demand in regions where that demand will increase. Will the Secretary of State address the problem, and ensure that the availability of teacher training places matches regional demands?
2015-03-02b.676.4	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	That is a very interesting point. I shall need to look into exactly how the teacher supply model is calculated each year, but I can tell the hon. Lady that, during the current Parliament, the Government have invested £5 billion to create new school places, and that, because we continue to recognise that there is pressure on the system, we have announced further funding up to 2021.
2015-03-02b.676.5	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Robert Jenrick	We were delighted to see the Orchard special school in Newark added to a list of 16 schools in Nottinghamshire to which funding was provided last month for classrooms. Those of us who know the Orchard school believe it may be beyond repair; this is a school that really is in bad condition. Will the Secretary of State agree to review this case and get back to us?
2015-03-02b.676.6	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	I was delighted last month to be able to announce £6 billion of investment in school buildings for school blocks in the worst condition, but of course, sadly, demand always outstrips supply. If my hon. Friend would like to send me further details, I shall ensure that I or one of the Ministers respond, and perhaps meet him to have a chat about it.
2015-03-02b.676.7	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicholas Dakin	I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement that she is against top-down imposition. Will she therefore admit that her predecessor made a huge mistake when he ordered the decoupling of AS and A-levels, and put that right before it is too late?
2015-03-02b.677.0	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	I like the hon. Gentleman very much indeed, but I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with him on this, because the evidence shows that having linear exams, where students have much longer to study the subject, benefits them as they understand the subject in depth. This is an important reform and I wait to see the progress it makes.
2015-03-02b.677.1	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	David Heath	This Government have protected school budgets, yet those at the secondary school in my constituency who wrote to me last week say that they are facing a cut of nearly 3% in their funding next year. Is that a result of the long-standing unfair budget formula, is it because of an imbalance between secondary and primary schools, or is it because of decisions taken by Somerset county council locally?
2015-03-02b.678.0	EDUCATION	Topical Questions	Nicky Morgan	I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I suspect that it is a combination of factors, and I am sure that Ministers will be happy to look into this further, but he makes an important point about the need to push on with restoring the national fairer funding formula. Too many areas and too many authorities in this country have suffered from funding falling back over many years. We are making progress—small progress—in this Parliament and we hope to make greater progress in the next Parliament in restoring that fairness.
2015-03-02b.679.1	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Yvette Cooper	(Urgent Question) : To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if she will make a statement on the Government’s counter-terrorism policy and implications for individuals travelling to the Iraq/Syria conflict zones.
2015-03-02b.679.2	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	As the Government have made clear repeatedly, the threat we face from terrorism is grave and is growing. The House will appreciate that I cannot comment on operational matters and individual cases, but the threat level in the United Kingdom, which is set by the independent joint terrorism analysis centre, is at severe. This means that a terrorist attack is highly likely and could occur without warning. The Government have consistently and emphatically advised against all travel to Syria and parts of Iraq. Anyone who travels to these areas is putting themselves in considerable danger, and the impact that such a decision can have on families and communities can be devastating. The serious nature of the threat we face is exactly why the Government have been determined to act. We have protected the counter-terrorism policing budget up to and including 2015-16, and increased the budget for the security and intelligence agencies. In addition, we have provided an additional £130 million to strengthen counter-terrorism capabilities and help address the threat from ISIL, and we have taken significant steps to ensure that the police and the security services have the powers and capabilities they need. Last year, we acted swiftly to protect vital capabilities that allow the police and the security services to investigate serious crime and terrorism and to clarify the law in respect of interception for communications-service providers. This year we have introduced the Counter-Terrorism and Security Act. This has provided the police with a power to seize a passport at the border temporarily, during which time they will be able to investigate the individual concerned—and I can confirm that this power has already been used. It has created a temporary exclusion order that allows for the managed return to the UK of a British citizen suspected of involvement in terrorist activity abroad. It has strengthened the existing terrorism prevention and investigation measures regime so that, among other measures, subjects can be made to relocate to another part of the country, and it has enhanced our border security for aviation, maritime and rail travel, with provisions relating to passenger data, no-fly lists, and security and screening measures. Since its national roll-out in April 2012, more than 2,000 people have been referred to Channel, the Government’s programme for people vulnerable to being drawn into terrorism, many of whom might have gone on to be radicalised or to fight in Syria. The Counter-Terrorism and Security Act 2015 has now placed Channel on a statutory basis. It has also placed our Prevent work on a statutory basis, which will mean that schools, colleges, universities, prisons, local government and the police will have to have due regard to the need to prevent people from being drawn into terrorism. Already since 2012, local Prevent projects have reached more than 55,000 people and have helped young people and community groups to understand and challenge extremist narratives, including those of ISIL. In addition to this work, alongside the checks we already conduct on a significant number of passengers who leave the UK, we have committed to reintroducing exit checks, and arrangements to do so will be in place by April 2015. These will extend our ability to identify persons of interest from a security, criminal, immigration or customs perspective. And as the Prime Minister stated last week, the Transport Secretary and I will be working with airlines to put proportionate arrangements in place to ensure that children who are at risk are properly identified and questioned. The Government are taking robust action, but we have been clear that tackling the extremist threat that we face is not just a job for the Government, the police and the security services; it needs everyone to play their part. It requires educational institutions, social media companies, communities, religious leaders and families to help to protect people vulnerable to radicalisation and to confront this poisonous ideology. If we are to defeat this appalling threat and ideology, we must all work together.
2015-03-02b.680.0	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Yvette Cooper	An estimated 600 British citizens have now travelled to join the conflict in Syria, from extremists with a terrorist history to 15-year-old schoolgirls. The whole House will share a revulsion at the barbarism of ISIL, a determination to tackle extremism and strong support for the vital and unsung work of the security services and the police to tackle the threat here and abroad. Members on both sides of the House have also recently supported further legislation to tackle the terrorist threat. However, there are specific areas in which we need answers about Government policies and decisions. First, we need answers on the handling of a west London network of terror suspects. In 2011, court papers described a network including three individuals relocated on control orders, 10 other named individuals and further unnamed individuals based in west London who were “involved in the provision of funds and equipment” to terrorism and the “facilitation of individuals’ travel from the UK” to join terrorist-related activity. The Home Secretary’s decision, against advice, to abolish control orders and cancel relocations was implemented in 2012, meaning that no one could then be relocated, despite the continued police view that relocation was one of the best ways to disrupt terrorist networks. One of those who had been relocated absconded in a London black cab; another associate absconded wearing a burqa. Other men from that west London network have been reported in the media as subsequently leaving for Syria and becoming involved in brutal violence. The Home Secretary has finally restored the relocation powers within the past few weeks. Does she believe that her decision to remove those relocation powers made it easier for that west London network to operate, recruit and send people to Syria? Will she now ask the independent terrorism reviewer or the Intelligence and Security Committee to consider the details of that west London network and to assess whether Government policy made it easier for it to operate and harder for the police and the Security Service to disrupt it? Secondly, we need to know about the Government’s policy to prevent young people and children from travelling to Syria, in the light of the distressing story of three schoolgirls from east London travelling there. I have not had a reply to my letter to the Home Secretary of last Wednesday, so will she tell us now whether the Government had an agreement in place with the airlines to raise alerts over unaccompanied minors travelling on known Syrian routes? If not, why not? And will she put such an agreement in place now? The girls flew out on Tuesday, but they did not leave Istanbul bus station until late Wednesday. It is reported that the police contacted the London embassy on Wednesday, but when were the Istanbul authorities alerted, and when were checks made at the main airports and train and bus stations in that city? One pupil from Bethnal Green academy is reported to have left for Syria before Christmas, and it is widely known that recruitment is taking place through friendship groups and social media. What training and support was given to the teachers and parents of other children at Bethnal Green academy to prevent further recruitment, grooming and radicalisation? What community-led Prevent programmes is the Home Office currently supporting in Bethnal Green? When the Home Secretary came to office and changed policy to end relocation orders and to remove community work from Prevent, she claimed that previous policies had failed to tackle extremism and she promised: “We will not make the same mistakes”.—[ Official Report , 7 June 2011; Vol. 529, c. 52 .] We need answers from her now about the mistakes that have been made under this Government, so that we can all work together to strengthen counter-terrorism policy in the face of these serious threats.
2015-03-02b.681.0	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	The shadow Home Secretary did raise a number of serious issues. She asked about Prevent and on that issue I have to say to her that she needs to stop using the numbers she likes to quote. She tries to compare Prevent before the election with Prevent after the election, but in 2011 we took the very important decision to split work on integration, which is now the sole responsibility of the Department for Communities and Local Government, and Prevent. That was done for very good reasons, and if the right hon. Lady wants to securitise integration work again, I suggest to her that she has not learned from the mistakes by the Government of whom she was a member. I would like her to say, at some stage: whether she supports the changes we have made to Prevent; whether she supports the fact that Prevent now looks at non-violent extremism as well as violent extremism; and whether she supports the changes we have made to make sure that no public money finds its way to extremists, as it did under the Government of whom she was a member. The right hon. Lady made various comments about TPIMs, and has done so outside this Chamber, asking why I did not put certain individuals on TPIMs. I cannot comment on individual cases, but I think she should understand how TPIMs work and how control orders worked. I do not decide to put somebody on a TPIM; the Security Service makes an application to me for permission to put somebody on a TPIM and if it has made a strong enough case, I approve the application. If she thinks that the Home Secretary should be taking operational decisions, I suggest that she should study the history of our constitution. The right hon. Lady raised the issue of control orders, but, as I have said at this Dispatch Box many times, control orders were being whittled away by the courts—they were not a sustainable system. TPIMs have, in contrast, consistently been upheld by the courts. She mentioned relocation, and, of course, the House has just passed the Counter-Terrorism and Security Act 2015, which adds relocation to the TPIM regime. I understand that she told the BBC on Sunday: “I think effectively— that TPIMs and control orders are— “the same thing if you bring the relocation powers back” That is precisely what we have done. The right hon. Lady says the power to relocate has not always been there, but what she fails to say is that the cases that have been raised in the media date from the time when control orders and the power of relocation were in place. At no point has anybody from the police or Security Service said to me that if we had the power of relocation we would be able to prevent people from travelling to Syria. Indeed, at the weekend, Helen Ball, the deputy assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan police, said—and they have said consistently— “short of locking someone up for 24 hours a day, you can’t eliminate the risk they pose.” The shadow Home Secretary herself said yesterday about control orders: “We can’t pretend it’s going to solve all of the problems.” I agree with her, which is why we consistently look at the powers available to the police and the security services in dealing with this issue. But, as I made absolutely clear in the answer to her question, this is not just a question of government and the powers we give to the police and to the security services; this is about families and communities as well, and we all need to work together to ensure that we can defeat this poisonous ideology.
2015-03-02b.682.0	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	David Davis	The Home Secretary should be wary of taking advice from Labour Members on control orders, because under the last four years of their regime seven of the so-called “control order” subjects absconded, in some cases, as we know, to commit jihad abroad. However, will she revisit the issue of using intercept evidence in court, as the best protection of the British public is provided by being able to prosecute, convict and lock up the people who are a threat to the British public?
2015-03-02b.682.1	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	I agree that the best way of dealing with these people who pose a threat is to prosecute them and lock them up. That view has been shared with the assistant commissioner with responsibility for counter-terrorism. Indeed the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, David Anderson, also made that point. On the question about intercept as evidence, that issue has been looked at on a number of occasions over the years. Most recently, it was considered by a cross-party Privy Council group, which reported some months ago and made it absolutely clear that, in the current situation, it was not appropriate to change the arrangements such that intercept should be used as evidence.
2015-03-02b.683.0	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Jack Straw	No one is suggesting that there is any range of measures that would completely eliminate the risk of people travelling to Syria and Iraq. My right hon. Friend the shadow Home Secretary has certainly not done so. But since the Home Secretary has now reintroduced the power of relocation, does she not accept that removing that power in 2011 was a mistake?
2015-03-02b.683.1	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	We took the decision that we did in 2011 based on the situation at the time. We have now reviewed the measures that are available and put other measures in place. I repeat what I said earlier, which is that some of the cases that have been quoted in the press go back to a date when control orders with relocation were in place.
2015-03-02b.683.2	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Julian Lewis	Does the Home Secretary agree that it is quite right that when the identity of some brainwashed, narcissistic psychopathic killer is exposed there should be wide media coverage of it? But does she also agree that a degree of self-restraint at some point should be necessary if we are not to build up these bogey men in precisely the way that they intend us to do?
2015-03-02b.683.3	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	I accept my hon. Friend’s point. Indeed, as others have said, including Helen Ball in her interview yesterday, there are other reasons why restraint should be applied, and they include when there are ongoing investigations and when there may be a risk to life involved.
2015-03-02b.683.4	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Keith Vaz	I am sure that the Home Secretary has heard the anguished pleas of the parents of Shamina, Kadiza and Amira, the three London schoolgirls who have left this country. They left on the Tuesday, but the Deputy Prime Minister of Turkey says that the Turkish authorities in Istanbul were not informed until three days later. I accept that the embassy in London may have been alerted, but this is something that should have gone straight to Istanbul. Will she look again at the circumstances so that we know exactly what the facts are, and will she look at a recommendation made by the Home Affairs Committee, which is that police spotters need to be placed in Istanbul, a destination of concern, so that immediate action can be taken if young girls disappear in this way?
2015-03-02b.683.5	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	I always look with great care at the recommendations of the Home Affairs Committee. The Metropolitan police have been absolutely clear about the date and time at which they alerted the Turkish authorities to the girls going missing. There is concern over this matter. Sadly, we have seen, over time, an increasing number of women and girls going to Syria, alongside the men and the younger boys. This is an ongoing matter, which is why Home Office officials have been talking to Turkish airlines about these issues. I will meet the Transport Secretary to see whether further arrangements can be put in place to ensure that we do not see other families facing the same trauma and stress.
2015-03-02b.683.6	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Julian Huppert	We are of course all concerned about radicalisation in the UK and people going to join ISIS, but I urge the Home Secretary not to give way to the authoritarian views of the Labour party as it was wrong on identity cards, wrong on 90-day detention without charge and wrong now. Will she update the House on what progress she has made on implementing the Anderson recommendations, which are a far more sensible way to resolve this matter?
2015-03-02b.684.0	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	My hon. Friend will know that we did in fact take on board a number of Anderson’s recommendations in the Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill. David Anderson is carrying out a fuller review for the Government on the question of the threat, the capabilities that are needed and the regulatory framework that needs to be in place to ensure that the police and the security and intelligence agencies have the necessary powers, and I look forward to his report.
2015-03-02b.684.1	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Fiona Mactaggart	If I knew at 7 o’clock on Wednesday evening that three girls had gone to Turkey, why did not the authorities in Istanbul?
2015-03-02b.684.2	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	The hon. Lady is basing her comments on statements that have been made in Turkey. The Metropolitan police have made it very clear what the position is and when they alerted the Turkish authorities.
2015-03-02b.684.3	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Bob Stewart	May I reinforce the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) ? I find it abhorrent that the media continue to use a photograph of a man who is a murderer, to name him and to give him an identity by giving him a nickname. That will probably reinforce the ideas of those who think that what he is doing is good and that he is some sort of modern Jesse James. I just find it abhorrent that our media continue to use this man’s name.
2015-03-02b.684.4	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	I will not comment on any individual case when ongoing investigations are taking place, and I am sure that my hon. Friend would not expect me to do so. What I will say is that we are all appalled and shocked at the horrific barbarism that is being shown by ISIL, and we expect that to be reflected in any reporting.
2015-03-02b.684.5	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Frank Dobson	The Home Secretary spends a great deal of time trying to persuade us that there needs to be more surveillance of everyone and that more data need to be collected. Does she not agree that recent cases suggest that the biggest problem is the incapacity of the security services—although it is not their fault—to deal adequately with the data and information that they already possess?
2015-03-02b.684.6	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	The right hon. Gentleman is right that I am saying that the agencies should have different capabilities. It is right that as people communicate less by telephone and more across the internet, we should update the legislation on access to communications data. This capability is not about looking at the content of any messages that people are exchanging. It is an important capability that has been there for some time and that has proved valuable not just in counter-terrorism cases, but in serious crime cases. I believe that it should be updated and a Conservative Government would certainly do that.
2015-03-02b.684.7	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Geoffrey Clifton-Brown	It has been reported in the newspapers that one of the three poor girls was travelling on a false passport. Does that not indicate that there are severe shortcomings in the entry and exit checks by our immigration and nationality department and in the airline checks? Will my right hon. Friend commit a future Conservative Government to a root and branch re-examination of those systems?
2015-03-02b.685.0	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	Of course, we are reintroducing exit checks. A certain amount of advance passenger information is available from airlines. We are looking at other ports of departure and the information that can be available. As I said in response to the shadow Home Secretary, exit checks will be in place in April of this year.
2015-03-02b.685.1	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	David Winnick	I am not aware that the media have made a hero of the individual who has been mentioned today, but is it not important to make it absolutely clear from this Parliament, not just from the Government, that the person who is responsible for the beheading of kidnapped British citizens should be brought to justice in whatever form is necessary and however long it takes?
2015-03-02b.685.2	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman that we wish to bring to justice the individual who is responsible for the beheading of British hostages. There is an ongoing police investigation into that case and that is why I am not commenting any further on it. However, he is absolutely right that that individual should be brought to justice.
2015-03-02b.685.3	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Crispin Blunt	Will my right hon. Friend ignore any opportunistic criticism and continue to meet the difficult challenge of balancing the defence of our values and our security? Will she continue to ensure that our intelligence services and her Department learn from our experiences in this area, so that we continue to be among the best in the world at getting that balance right?
2015-03-02b.685.4	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	My hon. Friend is right, and of course that is what this Government have done. We have looked at the balance between people’s privacy and liberty and the need for our services to have the appropriate powers and capabilities to keep people safe. I believe that we have struck the right balance, but of course we must continue to consider the issue as matters develop and as the terrorists find new ways of communicating and of carrying out their terrible and horrific attacks. We must be ever vigilant on this matter and that is exactly what the Government have been.
2015-03-02b.685.5	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Stephen Doughty	The Home Secretary failed to answer the question from my right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) about airlines and airline checks. A number of Members from all parties have been raising this concern for some months; I raised it in relation to constituents of mine who had travelled to Syria, tragically, to fight. Will the Home Secretary explain whether specific arrangements are in place with commercial airlines flying to Turkey and Cyprus, specifically with Turkish airlines?
2015-03-02b.685.6	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	A number of measures are put in place at our ports for people leaving the United Kingdom. As I said earlier, we are considering what further steps can be taken and, specifically, are having discussions with Turkish airlines.
2015-03-02b.686.0	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Michael Ellis	Has my right hon. Friend seen the comments made by activists from Cage, an organisation that receives charitable funds? What does she make of those comments, and will she take the opportunity to thank and congratulate in this House the security and intelligence services in this country for their excellent and brave work?
2015-03-02b.686.1	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	To take the latter point first, the shadow Home Secretary made that point and I am happy to do that again, as I have on many occasions in the past and as I did at the weekend. The men and women working for our security services do an excellent job for us. It is challenging work that they are doing unseen and unknown and without general praise precisely because they have to be unseen and unknown. They do an excellent job for us. As for the comments made by Cage, I must say to my hon. Friend in this House that there can be no excuse for the barbarism shown by those operating in the name of ISIL. I condemn anybody who attempts to excuse that barbarism away in the way that has been done by Cage.
2015-03-02b.686.2	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	George Howarth	May I ask the Home Secretary not to set her face completely against the potential the control orders might still offer? Will she give further thought to helping families to be more resilient, particularly when young members are susceptible to violent extremism? Will she give more support and encouragement to projects such as the JAN Trust, which are very helpful to people in that situation and certainly need to be encouraged?
2015-03-02b.686.3	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	The comment that has consistently been made about control orders concerns the power of relocation, but as the shadow Home Secretary said yesterday, TPIMs are effectively the same as control orders if we bring the relocation powers back, which we have done. The right hon. Gentleman is right that many good groups up and down the country are providing support for families. I launched a project by Families Against Stress and Trauma—FAST—last summer, which works with those families whose sons and daughters might have tried or might want to travel to Syria. I also commend the work of Inspire and Sara Khan, standing up with Muslim women throughout the UK against the radicalisation of young people.
2015-03-02b.686.4	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Matthew Offord	“World at One” this lunchtime carried a discussion about the Counter-Terrorism and Security Act 2015 and its effect on radicalisation. Will the Home Secretary take this opportunity to send a clear message to universities about how they can play their part in addressing that?
2015-03-02b.686.5	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	I am happy to do so. It is absolutely right that we have included universities in the Prevent duty in the Act. Universities should have a duty of care for the welfare of their students. If radicalisation is taking place on their campus, they should be aware of that and willing to deal with it.
2015-03-02b.686.6	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Debbie Abrahams	I would be grateful if the Home Secretary could answer the question from my right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) about what training and support has been provided to teachers and parents from the Bethnal Green academy since the teenager absconded at Christmastime. When does the Home Secretary expect to release the funds to schools and universities to take part in the Prevent programme?
2015-03-02b.687.0	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	We are finalising the Prevent guidance that is going out to universities and the other public sector bodies that are involved, and I understand that the police did have discussions with the school that the hon. Lady mentions.
2015-03-02b.687.1	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Henry Smith	I commend my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary for the diligence she has shown in introducing various Prevent programmes to Crawley. Gatwick airport is also in my constituency, so can she say a little more about passenger name record checks for intra-EU flights, not just for those coming from outside the EU?
2015-03-02b.687.2	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	The whole question of exchanging passenger name records for intra-EU flights is one that I and others have been putting forward in the debate in the European Union arena for some time now. I am pleased to say that other member states have recognised the need for an EU PNR directive. It was one of the issues referred to at the recent European Council meeting. I am clear that any such directive should include the exchange of PNR for intra-EU flights. Failing that, it is open to member states to undertake bilateral agreements to that effect.
2015-03-02b.687.3	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	John Mann	Scotland Yard’s budget for monitoring extremism on social media has been cut this year—by how much and why?
2015-03-02b.687.4	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	Decisions about individual aspects of Scotland Yard’s budget are a matter for the Metropolitan police. Let me be clear that the Government have protected counter-terrorism policing budgets over our period in office, and we have extended that to 2015-16.
2015-03-02b.687.5	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Charlie Elphicke	Given that many of these terrorists represent a clear and present danger to our country, our national security and the security of individuals, is it not important that we offer our intelligence services more powers, particularly through human rights reform and a communications data Bill, to ensure that we can secure our nation properly?
2015-03-02b.687.6	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	My hon. Friend makes an important point about the impact that human rights legislation has sometimes had, for example on our ability to deport certain individuals who pose a threat to us here in the UK. I am clear that we need to reform our human rights legislation and introduce a communications data Bill, and a Conservative Government after 7 May will do just that.
2015-03-02b.687.7	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Ian Austin	Why should members of the public trust for one second Ministers whose judgment was so utterly flawed that they thought terrorist suspects should be able to live wherever they want, mix with whoever they like and have access to computers and mobile phones? Is it not a fact that when we introduced relocation powers not a single terrorist suspect absconded, but when the Home Secretary got rid of them lots of them did? [ Interruption. ] She can laugh all she likes, but the people out there do not think it is a laughing matter. Last week Lord Carlile said that if one of those people had been subject to a control order, they would not have been able to leave the country.
2015-03-02b.688.0	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	I am afraid that some of the facts that the hon. Gentleman suggests in his question are inaccurate. Control orders were being whittled away by the courts, as he knows, so we decided to introduce TPIMs. We have now enhanced TPIMs through the Counter-Terrorism and Security Act 2015, and the ability to introduce a TPIM has remained available to the security services upon request to the Secretary of State.
2015-03-02b.688.1	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Andrew Stephenson	Yesterday I attended an event in Pendle at which counter-terrorism and security were discussed. It involved the former Pakistani high commissioner, Wajid Shamsul Hasan, the MEP for North West England, Sajjad Karim, my hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti) and many more, all of whom reject the idea that the so-called Islamic State has any connection with the true faith of Islam. Does my right hon. Friend agree that dialogue with the vast majority of the law-abiding Muslim community in this country is the best way to avoid radicalisation, rather than stigmatising communities, as Labour’s failed Prevent strategy did?
2015-03-02b.688.2	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	I absolutely agree. We should make it very clear that the so-called Islamic State is neither Islamic nor a state. One of the best ways to prevent radicalisation is for communities themselves to stand up and say that what is being done by terrorists is not being done in their name. I commend those imams and others from Muslim communities across the country who have responded to events such as the murder of Drummer Lee Rigby, the beheading of hostages and recent terrorist incidents in Europe and elsewhere precisely by saying that it is not in their name and that it is not about Islam; it is about a poisonous ideology.
2015-03-02b.688.3	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Andrew Gwynne	It should not have to be said that the people who were subject to control orders and those who are now subject to TPIMs are very dangerous people indeed. Does the Home Secretary not recognise that the changes that she instigated in 2011 to counter-terrorism laws, particularly the decision to remove the powers of relocation, did not help? I think she does recognise that, from the fact that she had to reintroduce them three years later. Will she say sorry?
2015-03-02b.688.4	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	I can only repeat to the hon. Gentleman what I have said in answer to a number of questions on this matter from his right hon. and hon. Friends. Of course the background against which we are operating has changed over the past few years. We have taken the decisions that we believe were necessary and appropriate at the time.
2015-03-02b.688.5	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Robert Jenrick	It is right that we show compassion and sympathy for the families. It is every parent’s worst nightmare that their children should do as those young girls have done, but does my right hon. Friend agree that the approach of some in the media leaves something to be desired? I am thinking also of the Government’s YouTube videos, which could make more apparent the full horrors of what those young ladies have got themselves into, to try to deter young people like them from going to Iraq and Syria in the future.
2015-03-02b.689.0	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	My hon. Friend is right. It is important that we make very clear the dangers and the horrors of what can happen when people go to such countries. Even if people are going to Syria with the best of humanitarian intentions, they can find themselves caught up in horrific situations, including with terrorist groups. That message is important. We have consistently been saying to people that they should not be travelling to Syria and Iraq. If they wish to help and support the people of Syria who have been displaced by the actions of the regime in Syria, there are better ways of doing it. That is a message that we will continue to put out.
2015-03-02b.689.1	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Nia Griffith	Returning to the point first made by the hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) that some of these sick individuals revel in and feel rewarded by high-profile media, does the Home Secretary agree that when young girls like those choose to travel, apart from instances where their identity is needed, perhaps for the public to apprehend them on their route, it would be far better if the media were to report the facts in a more anonymised form, rather than naming those individuals and showing pictures of them time and again?
2015-03-02b.689.2	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	The hon. Lady makes an important point. A free press is obviously part of what underpins our democracy, but I would expect the media to be responsible in the way in which they deal with such issues in a number of ways. She mentioned the young girls travelling and whether their names should have been revealed. I say to the media that these are important issues. The families in that case are under considerable stress and trauma, suffering as a result of their daughters having gone to Syria, and I expect the media to respect that.
2015-03-02b.689.3	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Adam Afriyie	With Heathrow airport in my own patch, exit checks are very important to me. The whole House, including the shadow Home Secretary, has welcomed the improvements made to TPIMs and to other Prevent measures. On relocation, exit checks and the data and communications changes that we need, the Conservative elements of the Government have been pushing hard to put these in place sooner rather than later. To what extent has the Home Secretary been held back by the Liberal Democrats in coalition?
2015-03-02b.689.4	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	The reintroduction of exit checks was a coalition Government agreement; it was in the coalition Government agreement that we published at the beginning of this Government as one of the measures that we were going to introduce. The draft Communications Data Bill is a different matter. It is a matter of public record that our Liberal Democrat colleagues did not want the introduction of that Bill. That is why we have not been able to do it.
2015-03-02b.689.5	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Heidi Alexander	Speaking on the BBC yesterday, Deputy Assistant Commissioner Helen Ball said that the Metropolitan police have always thought that relocation powers were a valuable tool in disrupting terrorist networks. Is the Home Secretary saying that when she relaxed the control order regime, the Metropolitan police never made this clear to her?
2015-03-02b.690.0	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	When we changed the control orders regime we discussed the matter with the agencies and the police, and they were absolutely clear that the changes we were making did not significantly increase the risk.
2015-03-02b.690.1	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Philip Hollobone	rose—
2015-03-02b.690.2	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Mr Speaker	I have saved the hon. Gentleman, who is an exquisite delicacy in the House, until last.
2015-03-02b.690.3	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Philip Hollobone	With regard to the London schoolgirls going to Syria, is there not a mechanism in place whereby parents can apply for a parental watch on a young person’s passport so that if they undertake an airline ticket purchase or present themselves at the airport, an alarm goes off that the parents need to be contacted because the passport is being used without parental consent?
2015-03-02b.690.4	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	I know that parents up and down the country who are concerned about the possibility of their children travelling have removed their passports from them so that they are unable to access them in order to travel. In some cases, that has been effective in ensuring that young people do not travel.
2015-03-02b.690.5	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Jason McCartney	rose—
2015-03-02b.690.6	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Alan Beith	On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
2015-03-02b.690.7	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Mr Speaker	I will come to the right hon. Gentleman’s point of order, but, to be fair, the hon. Member for Colne Valley (Jason McCartney) has been present in the Chamber, although he has only just started standing—but that is perfectly proper. Let us hear from him.
2015-03-02b.690.8	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Jason McCartney	Thank you, Mr Speaker; nobody has made the point that I am about to make. Many legitimate people are travelling from these troubled parts of the world, including students from the Kurdistan region of northern Iraq, many of whom study at Huddersfield university. Will the Secretary of State assure me that these security measures will ensure that they are still able to travel to our country and enjoy a world-class education at our universities?
2015-03-02b.690.9	EDUCATION	Counter-Terrorism: Conflict Zones	Theresa May	My hon. Friend makes an important point. The assumption that has appeared to lie behind some of the points that have been made is that there should be security because any young person travelling is a matter of concern, but of course that is not right—there will be people travelling for perfectly legitimate reasons. In relation to travel to Turkey, I think that about 2 million British tourists go to Turkey each summer, so there is significant movement between the United Kingdom and Turkey, and that is an important part of the Turkish economy.
2015-03-02b.747.0	Estimates Day — [2nd Allotted Day] — ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT	Ministry of Defence — Defence and Security Review (NATO)	John Woodcock	It is a pleasure to follow such esteemed Members on both sides of the House, particularly the Chair of the Defence Committee, of which I am a member. I wholeheartedly endorse what he said about the threat from Russia. He talked about the arc of unpredictable threats that we could face from Putin, but he also put his finger on the overall problem that, whatever those threats are, a common feature of our response and posture is that we are signalling to Russia and to President Putin that we are simply not up for the fight. The longer that goes on, the longer we will give a sense that we will do almost anything to avoid confrontation. I do not know whether the Minister for the Armed Forces is going to get to his feet later and repeat what his boss the Defence Secretary said last week, which was that there is only a diplomatic solution to the crisis. President Putin does not think that. As my hon. Friend the Member for York Central (Sir Hugh Bayley) rightly pointed out, President Putin is increasing his defence investment and capability enormously, and he is doing so precisely so that he can potentially bring about a military confrontation. The longer we maintain this stance of cowering in the face of that threat, the more likely it is that we will face a military confrontation. The longer we delay, the worse it will be. I hope that the Government will get the message that we cannot go on like this, with the scale of cuts in defence expenditure. Frankly, it is a disgrace that we have a Prime Minister who so recently was trying to convince all our NATO allies to maintain the 2% commitment but who will not make it clear, when asked repeatedly, that a Government led by him would maintain spending at 2% over the next five years.
2015-03-02b.758.0	Estimates Day — [2nd Allotted Day] — ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT	Ministry of Defence — Defence and Security Review (NATO)	Gerald Howarth	I join other Members in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart) . He has unquestionably set the tone for a seriously instructive and intelligent debate, which I hope receives wider coverage than simply in here. The hon. Member for York Central (Sir Hugh Bayley) took his cue from the massive tome on the estimates, but I will take mine from the Defence Committee’s report that was introduced by my hon. Friend. The role of NATO has been developing and is hugely important. After the fall of the Berlin wall in 1989, there was no clarity about whether NATO had any role to play. It is a great tribute to it—particularly to Anders Fogh Rasmussen in recent years and Lord Robertson of Port Ellen before him—that NATO has developed an important role in stabilising other parts of the world, as well as looking after the defence of Europe. NATO did well in the way the international security assistance force operation was conducted, whatever the criticisms of the strategy, and the Secretary-General assembling a team to bring together not just NATO members but non-NATO members in the Libyan operation was a tribute to him. The key thing that has happened is that a resurgent Russia has changed the outlook dramatically. The annexation of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in 2008 was perhaps seen as a one off, but the annexation of Crimea last year has been a wake-up call. Paragraph 2 of the Committee’s report states: “However, events in Crimea and Ukraine represent a “game changer” for UK defence policy. They have provoked a fundamental re-assessment of both the prioritisation of threats in the National Security Strategy and the military capabilities required by the UK. The UK's Armed Forces will need now also to focus on the defence of Europe against Russia and against asymmetric forms of warfare. This will have significant implications for resources, force structures, equipment and training.” As others have mentioned, the new Putin doctrine is instructive. Writing in Jane’s Defence Weekly , Dr Mark Galeotti said on 11 February that Russian policy “reflects a developing theme in Russian military art, demonstrated in Ukraine, where a combination of direct military intervention—often covert or at least ambiguous and denied—as well as the operations of proxy forces and intelligence assets have been blended with political leverage, disinformation campaigns, and economic pressure.”
2015-03-02b.776.0	Estimates Day — [2nd Allotted Day] — ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT	Ministry of Defence — Defence and Security Review (NATO)	James Gray	I know that the hon. Gentleman is looking forward to being the Minister for the Armed Forces in the incoming Labour Government. Talking of levelling with the British people, would a Labour Government not do what he says we are about to do?
2015-03-02b.783.2	WARM HOME DISCOUNT SCHEME (NORTHERN IRELAND)	Ministry of Defence — Defence and Security Review (NATO)	Margaret Ritchie	I was delighted to secure this very important debate on the extension of the warm home discount scheme to Northern Ireland. I am pleased that the Minister is in her place to respond. The rate of fuel poverty is higher in Northern Ireland than in any other part of the UK, representing 42% or 294,000 homes, with the figure rising to 62% for elderly people. I would like to outline the extreme toll that fuel poverty takes on people. Only last week, I received an e-mail from the Contact a Family organisation. It told me that Ellen Johnston from Belfast, whose six-year-old son Cole has global developmental delay, low muscle tone, epilepsy and cannot speak, said: “People don’t realise that it can cost so much more if you have a child with a disability or special needs. I used to work before Cole was born and tried to work from home but it was just too difficult to do this and deal with Cole’s needs and medical appointments at the same time.” That serves to illustrate the cost and the burden on that poor lady of heating her home, particularly with a disabled child and particularly when she was relying on benefits and had no other source of income. Many of us take a warm home for granted, but many people, particularly the elderly, do not have the comfort of a well-heated home. It is also worth noting that retired people are for obvious reasons at home much more of the time and therefore require the heating to be on for much longer periods than those still in work do. For them, heating their home becomes an enormous financial pressure, leading many to be left with the reality of living in extremely cold conditions. This is not just a matter of simply adjusting the thermostat or putting on a jumper, as a previous Energy Secretary suggested—it is often a matter of life and death. Under the Government’s own criteria, an estimated 6 million households are living in fuel poverty, and this winter a reported 40,000 extra winter deaths occurred in the UK—a rise of 29% on the previous year. According to the Office for National Statistics, from the beginning of December until 16 January this year, there were 8,800 more deaths than the average of 25,000. The rate rocketed by 33% in the week up until 16 January , when there were almost 15,000 deaths as an extremely cold spell took hold. An additional 3,000 deaths are expected and by March 31, the end date for Department of Health winter death totals, numbers will have surpassed the flu-hit toll of 36,450 in 2008-09, making it the worst since the peak of 48,440 deaths in 1999-2000. The figures for Northern Ireland are at least as grim, if not worse, with approximately 600 excess winter deaths recorded in 2013-14—up by about 20% from 2012. It is important to note that not all those deaths represent the “very elderly”, with approximately one in five under-75s and one in nine under-65s in the last year for which records were available in Northern Ireland. Low interior temperatures also lead to a range of other medical conditions, from bronchitis and other respiratory diseases to heart problems, not to mention the extra psychological toll that they can take. The World Health Organisation recently reported on the extreme danger that cold and damp homes, which often have poor or shoddy insulation, can pose to people’s health by causing respiratory illnesses. One of my party’s councillors, Brian Hedding, has taken a great lead on the issue, and is trying to raise awareness of it in councils in the UK and in Ireland. It puts enormous pressure on an already hard-pressed health service and on individual families.
2015-03-02b.784.0	WARM HOME DISCOUNT SCHEME (NORTHERN IRELAND)	Ministry of Defence — Defence and Security Review (NATO)	Lady Hermon	Fuel poverty is a very serious issue in Northern Ireland. I should like to know why Northern Ireland is the only part of the United Kingdom to which the warm home discount scheme does not extend. Did the Westminster Government not pay for it, or was money allocated but not spent in the proper way by the Northern Ireland Executive?
2015-03-02b.784.1	WARM HOME DISCOUNT SCHEME (NORTHERN IRELAND)	Ministry of Defence — Defence and Security Review (NATO)	Margaret Ritchie	I may be able to explain that later in my speech, but suffice it to say that Northern Ireland is the only region to which the scheme does not extend and in which there are particular market conditions. Our climatic conditions are probably similar to those in Scotland, and we have similar levels of fuel poverty, but the war home discount scheme extends to Scotland and not to Northern Ireland. I understand from Age Sector Platform that the scheme could be administered centrally by the United Kingdom, and that the costing could be executed by the utility companies. In fact, one of the utility companies that operate in Britain, SSE, also operates in Northern Ireland, through its agent Airtricity. I imagine that if the Minister approached the Northern Ireland Executive and, in particular, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, as well as the utility regulator and the other utility companies, a resolution might be found. In Northern Ireland, the problem of cold and damp is exacerbated by the fact that people have no access to the warm home discount scheme. The scheme was introduced in April 2011 by regulations made under section 9 of the Energy Act 2010. It provides a £140 rebate on household energy bills for eligible groups, namely pensioners receiving guarantee credit, who are known as the core group, and other low-income households, who are known as the broader group. Some further payments were made on the basis of other criteria. More than 2 million low-income and vulnerable households in England, Scotland and Wales have been helped each year, and total payments were expected to reach £1.1 billion by March 2015. The Department for Work and Pensions estimates that approximately four out of every five households claim this entitlement. While it is obviously desirable to maximise the figure and promote better awareness of the scheme here, it is worth repeating yet again that no one in Northern Ireland has access to it. The hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) made that point a few moments ago. The scheme is administered by Ofgem. The Department for Work and Pensions has a monitoring role, and the administration costs are carried by the UK Government. Could the arrangement not simply be transferred to Northern Ireland, with the administration being carried out centrally here in Britain? It is financed by levying around £11 per annum on consumers, and Age Sector Platform has estimated that Northern Ireland could be covered by the scheme with the addition of just £1 per customer per year. This scheme was designed specifically, in the words of the Department of Energy and Climate Change, “to reduce fuel poverty in the UK”, with no mention of excluding Northern Ireland, and indeed has been set up with a mechanism to ensure that no supplier is left footing a disproportionate burden owing to the uneven spread of fuel poverty across the UK. Surely the north of Ireland should not be excluded from this. While the Minister in response to written questions has maintained that fuel poverty is a fully devolved matter, in DECC’S own fuel poverty statistics guide it is described only as a partially devolved matter and it is acknowledged that devolved Administrations do not have the capacity to “affect certain aspects of fuel poverty policies”, such as incomes and market conditions. Fellow Members representing Northern Ireland constituencies who are present tonight will recall that we met Age Sector Platform in this building on 4 November and it referred to that specific point. We were under the illusion—including me, a former Minister for Social Development—that it was a totally devolved matter, but that document from DECC clearly shows that it is only partially devolved and therefore the UK Government centrally do have a responsibility in this matter. It is on that point that I and other Members representing Northern Ireland constituencies are seeking answers.
2015-03-02b.785.0	WARM HOME DISCOUNT SCHEME (NORTHERN IRELAND)	Ministry of Defence — Defence and Security Review (NATO)	Nigel Dodds	I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this important debate. I agree entirely with what she is saying and she is right to highlight these matters to the United Kingdom Government. I ask that she and the House be assured that there is consensus among all the parties in Northern Ireland and the Members here on this issue, and we will continue to work together both here and at home with our Executive colleagues to try to bring about an answer and a solution for the people affected by fuel poverty in Northern Ireland.
2015-03-02b.785.1	WARM HOME DISCOUNT SCHEME (NORTHERN IRELAND)	Ministry of Defence — Defence and Security Review (NATO)	Margaret Ritchie	I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that helpful intervention. He is absolutely right: there is cross-party consensus on this issue in Northern Ireland and we want to continue working during this debate, and particularly after it, to ensure that a solution can be found that mitigates the impact of fuel poverty on some of the most hard-to-reach households in both urban and rural communities. There is consensus on this issue across the parties in Northern Ireland. That point was reiterated at the meeting with Age Sector Platform on 4 November in this House. It intends to hold a cross-party Parliament meeting for older people shortly, and before the election; I have just got word of that today. Age Sector Platform has also submitted a strong response to November’s consultation, advocating our inclusion in the scheme. It has also suggested that as Power NI, one of the utility companies in Northern Ireland, meets the threshold for mandatory involvement in the scheme in the UK, with 250,000 domestic customers, it should be included, along with Airtricity, which is a subsidiary of SSE, which is already involved in Britain. I would be most grateful for an updated assessment of this situation from the Minister. I am aware that the Minister of State’s response to written questions on this issue has been that fuel poverty is a devolved matter, and obviously I am aware that Ireland has a separate energy market with different providers. However, as I have said, there has been an acknowledgment and awareness from the Department that we face the same problems with fuel poverty, but do not have the same toolset to deal with them. Surely there is a role for the UK Government in providing, or at least enabling or facilitating, the scheme in Northern Ireland. The Minister’s answers on this question have so far been fairly blunt, but will she commit this evening to taking a more positive and perhaps more nuanced view of the issue? Will she work with the Northern Ireland Executive whenever possible to explore the options to extend the scheme, or a comparable variant of it, to Northern Ireland? I am calling on her to do the right thing and to work with the Executive at Stormont to protect the elderly and disabled members of our population and some of the most vulnerable families in hard-to-reach communities. We are also looking for an extension beyond April 2015 of the landlords’ energy-saving allowance, which would help to further mitigate fuel poverty in the private rented sector. I am calling on the Minister to do the right thing this evening. If the warm home discount scheme is extended, pensioners and other elderly people in Northern Ireland will be spared freezing in their homes next winter.
2015-03-02b.786.0	WARM HOME DISCOUNT SCHEME (NORTHERN IRELAND)	Ministry of Defence — Defence and Security Review (NATO)	Amber Rudd	I congratulate the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) on securing the debate on extending the warm home discount scheme to Northern Ireland. Fuel poverty remains a huge challenge, as she rightly says, and the coalition is committed to tackling the problem and to helping the people affected, especially those on low incomes and in vulnerable households. To help us to meet the challenge of fuel poverty head on, the Government have introduced a new, more accurate “low income, high cost” measure of fuel poverty in England. This enables us to deliver effective policies that can cut bills and increase comfort for those on low incomes living in the coldest homes. We have a range of policies in place, including the warm home discount, that address the contributing factors of fuel poverty through either increasing income or reducing energy bills. I want to provide some context for the warm home discount scheme and tell the House how it operates in Great Britain. The powers for the warm home discount scheme are set out in primary legislation—the Energy Act 2010—and it is delivered by suppliers within Great Britain. Introduced in 2011 through secondary legislation, the warm home discount scheme requires electricity suppliers with more than 250,000 domestic customer accounts to provide financial support in respect of energy costs to their vulnerable customers. This winter, the customers eligible for that financial support received a £140 rebate on their electricity bill. Since we launched the scheme, around 2 million households in or at risk of living in fuel poverty across Great Britain have benefited from lower energy bills each year. As a result of the success of the warm home discount, this Government have extended support to 2015-16, with a spending target of £320 million. This is in addition to the £1.1 billion that has been spent over the first four years of the scheme and will continue to support the people most in need. Fuel poverty in Northern Ireland is devolved to the Northern Ireland Executive, who decide their own fuel poverty objectives and policies. However, in looking at the feasibility of extending the warm home discount scheme to Northern Ireland, we can see that a number of factors would affect that arrangement. As I said, the powers for the warm home discount scheme were set out in primary legislation in the Energy Act 2010. However, the powers extend only to Great Britain, so any extension of the scheme to Northern Ireland would require a change in primary legislation. The energy market in Northern Ireland is different from the one that operates in Great Britain. There is also a difference in the nature and number of customers in fuel poverty. Northern Ireland operates in an all-island energy market that is separate from that of Great Britain. It is at a different stage from the GB market in terms of energy market regulation and competition. The warm home discount scheme applies only to the largest suppliers, based on their domestic market share across Great Britain. The same rules apply in all regions so as not to create market distortions. In Northern Ireland, only the largest supplier would meet the current participation threshold for the scheme. That would mean customers of smaller suppliers would be ineligible, which could lead to a distortion of the single energy market. I also want to highlight the importance of maintaining a balance between helping those in fuel poverty and ensuring that energy costs are kept as low as possible for everybody. The warm home discount scheme is funded by energy suppliers, which we expect to pass the costs of the scheme on to customer bills. The question from the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) was about the source of funds, and the simple answer is that the funds are only collected from bills in Great Britain—they are not currently collected from the Bills in Northern Ireland, which is unique in the UK in that respect. Replicating the GB scheme in Northern Ireland could be done but would pose particular problems. Given the high proportion of households in fuel poverty in Northern Ireland, making them all eligible would have a high overall cost. For example, if Northern Ireland were to replicate the impact of the warm home discount scheme in Great Britain, for one in 13 households benefiting we could expect an increase in energy tariffs of 2%. However, if coverage of the scheme extended to include all fuel poor customers in Northern Ireland, the costs of the scheme would add almost £59—a 9.8% increase—to each household electricity bill. A different means of funding such a scheme may be needed for Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland already has a number of schemes in place that provide support to the fuel poor, including the sustainable energy programme, the warm homes and affordable warmth schemes, and the boiler replacement scheme. Those are in addition to the availability of cold weather payments and winter fuel payments. Also, the recent downward pressure on oil prices will come as welcome relief to the many customers in Northern Ireland using oil for heating purposes I understand that Power NI, the main supplier in Northern Ireland, has announced a tariff reduction of 9.2% to take effect from 1 April 2015 . This will be a two-year tariff and is estimated to reduce a typical domestic consumer bill by approximately £50 per year. Alongside the downward pressure on heating oil and gas prices, it should result in a reduction in the extent and severity of fuel poverty. The hon. Member for South Down raised the issue of covering administrative costs. For her information, the Department for Work and Pensions administrative costs cover only a small proportion of the cost of administering the scheme. Most costs, including the administrative costs, are borne by the suppliers. My officials in the Department of Energy and Climate Change regularly meet Northern Ireland Executive officials to discuss fuel poverty issues. However, as fuel poverty is devolved to the Northern Ireland Executive, they decide their own fuel poverty objectives and policies. Fuel Poverty remains a huge challenge in both Great Britain and Northern Ireland and needs to be tackled. However, the differences between our energy markets and the way we measure fuel poverty mean that we need to consider different policies to best meet the needs of those we are trying to reach.
2015-03-02b.788.0	WARM HOME DISCOUNT SCHEME (NORTHERN IRELAND)	Ministry of Defence — Defence and Security Review (NATO)	Margaret Ritchie	The Minister has clearly stated that her officials meet Northern Ireland Executive officials to discuss fuel poverty and fuel poverty objectives. What specific issues have been discussed in the recent past between her officials and officials in the Department for Social Development in Northern Ireland about the mitigation of fuel poverty?
2015-03-02b.788.1	WARM HOME DISCOUNT SCHEME (NORTHERN IRELAND)	Ministry of Defence — Defence and Security Review (NATO)	Amber Rudd	I thank the hon. Lady for that question. Obviously, the key point that is relevant to what we are talking about is how we could advise or assist in some equivalent measure, which is exactly what she has raised with us today. In preparation for this debate, we had further discussions. The hon. Lady talked earlier about trying to keep the dialogue open, and I wish to reassure her that we are always keen to work with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment in Northern Ireland and to share with it all that we have learned about trying to administer this scheme in the best way to reach the constituents who, as she has clearly set out, are so vulnerable to high energy costs: the vulnerable, the disabled and the pensioners, who often do not go out. Although I do not have the answers here today about how the scheme could be extended to Northern Ireland, because, as I have said, it is a devolved matter and has separate payments, I would like to reassure the hon. Lady that we are always keen to work with our counterparts in Northern Ireland and we will be keen to continue to do that. I hope I have shown that we will work with them wherever we can to make sure that fuel poverty is eradicated in Great Britain and Northern Ireland by any means possible. I commend her for raising this issue today. Question put and agreed to. House adjourned.
2015-03-03b.789.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Palestine	Margaret Ritchie	What criteria the Government will use to determine the right time for the UK to recognise Palestine as a state.
2015-03-03b.789.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Palestine	Tobias Ellwood	We want to see the establishment of a sovereign and independent Palestinian state, living in peace and security alongside Israel. We have been clear that the UK will recognise a Palestinian state bilaterally at a time when we judge it best to help bring about peace.
2015-03-03b.789.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Palestine	Margaret Ritchie	I thank the Minister for his answer, but does he not see that constantly saying that the UK recognition of the state of Palestine should be conditional on negotiations between Israel and Palestine in effect gives Mr Netanyahu or his successor a veto over the UK’s sovereign decision to recognise Palestine, especially as that Prime Minister is making a very divisive speech in Washington today? How can this be right?
2015-03-03b.789.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Palestine	Tobias Ellwood	Although I understand the hon. Lady’s passion—we have debated this matter in the House on a number of occasions—I hope she appreciates that such recognition is not simply a tick-box exercise but a strategic tool, which will have consequences when implemented, and which is therefore best used at a time when it will advance the process and leverage positive change.
2015-03-03b.789.8	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Palestine	Crispin Blunt	The previous Foreign Secretary said that we were in the last chance saloon for the two-state solution. If the Government wait long enough, there will be no opportunity for a two-state solution and the question will then be completely irrelevant.
2015-03-03b.789.9	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Palestine	Tobias Ellwood	I am sad to say that I agree with my hon. Friend, as many of the ingredients that we witnessed in the build-up to last summer’s conflict are beginning to re-emerge. If we are to avoid another significant and punishing conflict, all parties must come together immediately after the Israeli elections are complete and a new Government are formed, to address these grave challenges.
2015-03-03b.790.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Palestine	Ian Austin	There is no legalistic or bureaucratic route to Palestinian statehood and it cannot be imposed from outside. We will see a viable Palestinian state—the two-state solution that we all want—only as a result of proper negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians, which Britain should be doing everything it can to foster. We need to see the demilitarisation of Gaza, Iran no longer sending rockets to Hezbollah and Hamas, and Britain promoting organisations such as Project Cherish, the Parents Circle-Families Forum and Middle East Education Through Technology to bring together people on both sides who want peace.
2015-03-03b.790.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Palestine	Tobias Ellwood	I am not sure that was a question, but I certainly agree with the spirit of the hon. Gentleman’s comments. We want the Palestinian Authority to assert itself in Gaza, not just have a technocratic Government. We want the Palestinians to end the political stalemate with Hamas, as he implies, but we also want Israel to allow the free movement of people, particularly the politicians, into Gaza, and to increase trade between Gaza and the west bank.
2015-03-03b.790.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Palestine	Duncan Hames	The Minister is right—we have debated the subject a number of times. The House also voted by an overwhelming margin in favour of recognising a Palestinian state. Under what circumstances does he consider that the timing of such an announcement should be at odds with the sovereign will of the House?
2015-03-03b.790.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Palestine	Tobias Ellwood	As I said in my initial reply, this is not just a tick-box exercise. It is not something that we debate in Parliament and then move on to the next subject. There are real consequences of when we choose to recognise the Palestinian state. We want to be part of that process and to advance it. When we can leverage positive change, we will do so.
2015-03-03b.790.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Libya	Jeremy Lefroy	What recent discussions he has had with his counterparts in North Africa on the political and security situation in Libya.
2015-03-03b.790.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Libya	Philip Hammond	The political and security situation in Libya remains a concern. We call on all parties to agree to a ceasefire, to engage with the UN dialogue process to find a lasting solution, and to unite to defeat the Islamist extremism which is establishing a foothold in that country. I speak regularly to my Egyptian counterpart. I visited Algeria on 19 and 20 February for discussions which were dominated by the situation in Libya.
2015-03-03b.790.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Libya	Jeremy Lefroy	I welcome the Egyptian Government’s response to the terrible murder of 21 Egyptian Coptic Christians in Libya and especially the bridge building shown by President Sisi and religious leaders to the Coptic community. What more can the UK do to support Egypt in its vital role in working for stability in Libya?
2015-03-03b.791.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Libya	Philip Hammond	My hon. Friend is right that Egypt will play a vital role in the solution in Libya, as all European countries, many of which are very concerned about the situation there, and the United States recognise. Similarly, there are still significant challenges in the human rights situation in Egypt. We were very pleased with the clear statement that President Sisi made on the rights of religious minorities in Egypt. However, as with many other elements of the Egyptian constitution, we now need to see that being delivered on the ground.
2015-03-03b.791.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Libya	Nigel Dodds	Following engagement with ourselves, the Prime Minister appointed the National Security Adviser to engage with the Libyan authorities on reconciliation and finding ways forward for compensation for victims of IRA terrorism that was sponsored by the Gaddafi regime. Will the Foreign Secretary update the House on what progress the National Security Adviser has made in that work?
2015-03-03b.791.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Libya	Philip Hammond	I regret to have to tell the right hon. Gentleman that the reality on the ground in Libya is that there is no authority to engage with. I am afraid that at the moment I can report no progress on those measures. The urgent need now is to see a Government of national unity created and for the Libyan people to deal collectively with the threat to their society that is posed by the establishment of ISIL cells. Once we have such an authority in place, we will of course re-engage with that agenda.
2015-03-03b.791.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Libya	Malcolm Rifkind	As the United Kingdom was one of the leading countries that helped the Libyan people overthrow Colonel Gaddafi, do we not have both a political obligation and a political interest to help all the democratic forces in Libya trying to create a new, decent country? While I recognise that the Government do indeed have a priority in that respect, I urge my right hon. Friend to ensure that the British Government do all within their power—perhaps even more than they are doing at the moment—over the crucial weeks and months that will determine whether Libya does indeed become a moderate, secular force or continues to be a hotbed of anarchy and potential terrorism.
2015-03-03b.791.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Libya	Philip Hammond	I agree with my right hon. and learned Friend that the next few weeks and months will be crucial for Libya. Would that it was as simple as getting behind the democratic authority in Libya—it is not clear that there is a democratic authority behind which we can get. We need a coming together. I do not want to overplay the prospects, but the UN Secretary-General’s special representative, Bernardino León, is making some progress, and the Prime Minister’s envoy, Jonathan Powell, is also working hard. We will continue to engage, because having a stable Government in Libya is vital to our security.
2015-03-03b.791.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Libya	Gisela Stuart	The Tobruk-based Government have agreed to return to the UN talks, but on the condition that they are recognised as the only authority that can take part in those negotiations. What is the view of Her Majesty’s Government? Do they support the Tobruk-based Government?
2015-03-03b.792.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Libya	Philip Hammond	Our view is that both the Tobruk regime and the Misratans, and indeed the regime in Tripoli, must attend the talks with the UN Secretary-General’s special representative on a no-preconditions basis and on the terms he proposes in order to discuss how they can form a Government of national unity of some kind so that we can begin to rebuild Libya, which could be a prosperous and successful country, and one whose stability is vital to our own interests.
2015-03-03b.792.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	David Amess	What recent assessment he has made of progress with the middle east peace process.
2015-03-03b.792.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Philip Hammond	I have to be candid with my hon. Friend: progress has stalled pending the Israeli general election on 17 March . The British Government strongly supported US Secretary of State John Kerry’s efforts to reach a final status agreement and were disappointed that the parties did not make more progress in 2014. I have discussed many times with Secretary Kerry, most recently when we met in London on 21 February , what the next steps will be. We will press the US to revive the initiative and all the parties to resume serious negotiations as soon as possible after the Israeli elections, and I urge them to be ready then to step up and show the bold political leadership that will be necessary to achieve peace.
2015-03-03b.792.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	David Amess	I am glad to hear that my right hon. Friend will join me in asking for renewed international pressure on Hamas to disarm and renounce violence. Does he agree that unless that happens it is difficult to envisage a unified and prosperous Palestinian state existing alongside Israel?
2015-03-03b.792.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Philip Hammond	My hon. Friend is right that for an enduring solution Hamas must disarm and be prepared to accept Israel’s right to live in peace, but Israel must also stop making illegal settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. We need to keep up the pressure on both sides if we are to get a sustainable solution.
2015-03-03b.792.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Gerald Kaufman	Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that one of the most positive possibilities for advancing peace in the middle east would be the success of the international negotiations with Iran on its nuclear projects? Will he take this opportunity to make it clear that any attempt to disrupt those talks by the Israeli Prime Minister when he addresses the United States Congress later today would be bad for the whole of the middle east and bad for Israel too?
2015-03-03b.792.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Philip Hammond	My reading of the US Congress is that it probably does not need much encouragement to instinctively be very sceptical about the process of dialogue with Iran on the nuclear dossier. However, some small progress is being made there, and I would very much regret any attempts to destabilise or derail that process. On the wider question, settling the Israel-Palestine issue is the big roadblock to a more enduring peace in the middle east.
2015-03-03b.793.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Richard Ottaway	Does the Foreign Secretary think that peace will not be forthcoming until Hamas renounces violence and can speak with a single voice? In Israel, we have seen the emergence of a moderate centre ground. Does he think that either condition is going to happen?
2015-03-03b.793.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Philip Hammond	I am going to be slightly careful about the second part of my right hon. Friend’s question because Israel is two weeks away from a general election, so I do not want to speculate about different parts of the political spectrum. What is clear is that there needs to be a broad-based movement within Israel that seeks peace, understands that trade-offs are required in order to achieve peace, and places the greatest premium on getting an acknowledgement of Israel’s right to live inside peaceful pre-’67 borders in perpetuity.
2015-03-03b.793.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Angus Robertson	Is it true that Tony Blair is still a so-called middle east peace envoy? What progress has he secured on the ground, and do the UK Government still have confidence in his efforts?
2015-03-03b.793.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Philip Hammond	It is true that Tony Blair remains the Quad envoy to the middle east. Mr Blair has made a large number of visits to the region; most recently he has been in Gaza. He continues to engage, and I have no doubt that his role will be kept under constant review.
2015-03-03b.793.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Menzies Campbell	May I take my right hon. Friend back to the question of settlements, which it is accepted throughout this House are wholly contrary to international law? More to the point, the continual encroachment by the Israeli Government makes it impossible for East Jerusalem to become the capital of a Palestinian state. Can he conceive of any circumstances where a leader of the Palestinians would be able to accept a peace arrangement based on giving up East Jerusalem?
2015-03-03b.793.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Philip Hammond	I think that is highly unlikely. As my right hon. and learned Friend knows, the Government’s position is that that should not be the case. I have said in this House before and I will say again that settlements are just buildings. Buildings can be built and buildings can be removed, and we must not allow illegal building to stand in the way of a sustainable solution if it can otherwise be found.
2015-03-03b.793.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Gareth Thomas	I am sure that the Foreign Secretary agrees that the middle east peace process will be more difficult to restart if reconstruction in Gaza continues to proceed as slowly as it is currently. What further efforts, if any, will Ministers be making to speed up the delivery of aid, including British aid, that was promised by the international community at the Cairo conference, before they hand over the challenge to this Front Bench on 8 May ?
2015-03-03b.793.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Middle East Peace Process	Philip Hammond	If I may say so, I think that the hon. Gentleman is getting a little bit ahead of himself there. We have a good track record on the delivery of our aid pledges in respect of Gaza. A number of other countries have made very forward-leaning aid pledges but they have not yet been followed through. So there is a problem with money, but there is also a physical problem of being able to get materials into Gaza and get works progressed. That is caused partly by the security situation in Sinai and the Egyptian response to that, and partly by the situation between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza. I do not think, honestly, that we are going to get much progress before the Israeli general election, but as soon as that election is out of the way, this has to be a major priority.
2015-03-03b.794.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Falkland Islands	Michael Fabricant	Whether he has had discussions with the Argentinian Government on the future of the Falkland Islands; and if he will make a statement.
2015-03-03b.794.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Falkland Islands	Hugo Swire	There have been no discussions between the UK and Argentina on the future of the Falkland Islands during the course of this Government. Any such discussions will take place only when the Falkland Islanders wish them to, and they have made it clear that they do not.
2015-03-03b.794.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Falkland Islands	Michael Fabricant	My right hon. Friend will be aware that the Argentinian Government have brought out new bank notes showing the Falkland Islands as part of Argentina. I think that we have all received a letter from the Argentinian ambassador and a book, “Malvinas Matters”, complaining that there has not been any dialogue. May I reiterate what the Minister has just said? We should not have any negotiations with Argentina on sovereignty until the Falkland Islanders want to leave the United Kingdom.
2015-03-03b.794.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Falkland Islands	Hugo Swire	I am aware that a number of right hon. and hon. Members have received that book, which seeks to discredit the Falkland Islanders’ right to their own future. It ignores the inconvenient truth that some people on the islands can trace their Falklands ancestry back through nine generations, which is longer than the current borders of Argentina have existed. On the issue of the 50 peso bank note, we cannot stop the Argentinian Government’s doing these stunts. It is worth a whopping £3.72, according to today’s exchange rate—I think it probably has the equivalent political value.
2015-03-03b.794.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Patagonia (Welsh Community)	David Davies	What plans officials of his Department in Argentina have to mark the 150th anniversary of the founding of the Welsh community in Patagonia.
2015-03-03b.794.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Patagonia (Welsh Community)	Hugo Swire	Our embassy in Buenos Aires, in co-ordination with the British Council in Argentina and Wales, will facilitate official visits to Argentina for the celebrations in July to mark the 150th anniversary of the arrival of Welsh settlers in Patagonia. It will also work hard to promote Wales in Argentina through cultural and other events.
2015-03-03b.795.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Patagonia (Welsh Community)	David Davies	The Minister will surely be aware that the 25,000 Welsh speakers in Argentina have a very special place in the hearts of everyone living in Wales. Does he agree that this important anniversary—notwithstanding other matters that, with amazing timing, have just been raised—perhaps offers the opportunity to rebuild a more friendly relationship? Will he come to a photographic exhibition on the Welsh colonies in Argentina, which I hope to organise in the House later this year if all kinds of other events allow?
2015-03-03b.795.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Patagonia (Welsh Community)	Hugo Swire	I would be delighted to continue in this role after the May election, but that is up to the Prime Minister. We should all celebrate the great story of the arrival of 153 Welsh settlers in Chubut in 1865. I am pleased that the First Minister of Wales will go to Argentina, and I am delighted that the National Youth Choir of Wales, the London Welsh choir and the National Orchestra of Wales will all visit Patagonia this year. I hope that they will concentrate on Welsh relations with Argentina, rather than anything else.
2015-03-03b.795.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Patagonia (Welsh Community)	Jonathan Edwards	The history of the Welsh settlement in Patagonia is an incredible story of tenacity, innovation, fortitude and triumph over adversity, with a thriving Welsh-language community in Chubut province today. Will the Minister ensure that the FCO Argentine mission has an obligation to strengthen relations between Patagonia and Wales?
2015-03-03b.795.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Patagonia (Welsh Community)	Hugo Swire	We have absolutely no problem with the people of Argentina. We enjoy extraordinarily good relations with them, and the Welsh factor is enormously important. When the Welsh Affairs Committee visited last year, it was presented with a declaration on the Falklands, and I expect similar stunts this year. I hope that right hon. and hon. Members and the Argentinians will remember that the members of the Welsh community chose to emigrate and have become Argentine citizens by choice. By comparison, the Falkland Islanders have exercised their own right of self-determination and, frankly, it is hypocritical for Argentina selectively to ignore that.
2015-03-03b.795.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	William Bain	What assessment he has made of the success of recent diplomatic initiatives relating to peace and security in eastern Ukraine.
2015-03-03b.795.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	Roger Williams	What steps his Department is taking to ensure a lasting ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine.
2015-03-03b.795.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	Philip Hammond	We support all diplomatic efforts that aim to bring about a peaceful resolution to the crisis in Ukraine. Since the latest Minsk agreement was signed on 12 February , Russian-backed separatists have seized control of the strategically important town of Debaltseve. It is not yet clear that Russia has any intention of honouring the commitments it made in Minsk. I held talks with Secretary Kerry last weekend, and I will discuss Ukraine with EU Foreign Ministers on Friday in Riga. In all such discussions, we will continue to argue for a strong and united response to Russia’s actions until such time as we see full compliance on the ground.
2015-03-03b.796.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	William Bain	I am sure that the House will want to take this opportunity to send its condolences to the friends and supporters of Boris Nemtsov, following his horrific murder last weekend. The death toll in eastern Ukraine has reached 6,000 according to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights. It also detects an escalation in hostilities, despite the signing of the ceasefire agreement. Does the Secretary of State agree that the EU standing together on tougher sanctions is the only way we can make it clear to President Putin that Russia’s actions in Ukraine are unacceptable?
2015-03-03b.796.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	Philip Hammond	I of course share the hon. Gentleman’s view on the appalling murder of Nemtsov in Moscow. The hon. Gentleman asked about stepping up sanctions in response to Russia’s failure to comply with Minsk. The Minsk agenda runs until the end of this year, so it will not be until the end of December that Ukraine will regain control of its border with Russia, even if all the milestones are complied with. We believe that the tier 3 sanctions should be extended to last until the end of the year, so that we have a tool with which to ensure compliance. We can always suspend or partially suspend the sanctions if the milestones are being met, but we need to have the tool in place right the way through the programme.
2015-03-03b.796.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	Roger Williams	Many of my constituents have asked me why, when President Hollande and Chancellor Merkel met Putin, there was no senior British political presence or representation. When will Britain play its full part in protecting the sovereign nations of Europe?
2015-03-03b.796.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	Philip Hammond	I do not recognise the premise of the hon. Gentleman’s question. We are playing our part. While Mrs Merkel and President Hollande have done a good job of negotiating the Minsk implementation agreement under the Normandy process, which always involved the four countries of Germany, France, Ukraine and Russia, our role has been, is and will remain to stiffen the resolve of all 28 EU members to be united and aligned with the United States in deploying what has proved to be a powerful sanctions weapon.
2015-03-03b.796.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	Douglas Alexander	I certainly echo the sentiment of the Foreign Secretary’s final remarks. At this difficult and dangerous moment, it is vital that Europe and NATO stand united in ensuring that the Minsk agreement is implemented in full. However, may I bring him back to his remarks about tier 3 sanctions? Does he believe that new EU restrictive measures should be on the table at the next European Council meeting, as opposed simply to the roll-over and extension of existing measures that he described in his answer?
2015-03-03b.796.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	Philip Hammond	The European Commission has been tasked to look at a menu of possible additional measures that could be taken. As I have indicated, I think that we need two tools. We need an extension of the existing tier 3 measures through to the end of December. Putin has been telling oligarchs around Moscow that the sanctions will be over by the end of July: “Just hold your breath and it’ll all be fine.” We need to show him that that will not be the case. Alongside that, we need a credible set of options that we can implement immediately if there is a failure to comply with milestones in the Minsk implementation agreement or a serious further outbreak of conflict in the region.
2015-03-03b.797.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	Douglas Alexander	I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s answer, but let me return to the appalling murder of Boris Nemtsov on Saturday in Moscow, to which he has referred. Clearly, the priority needs to be a thorough and impartial investigation into the murder. President Putin has a personal responsibility to show that the Russian authorities are willing and able to identify Mr Nemtsov’s killers and to bring them to justice. Will the Foreign Secretary confirm whether he has raised this matter with the Russian authorities, and give his assessment of the steps that have been taken by the Russian authorities to begin investigating the case?
2015-03-03b.797.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	Philip Hammond	We have heard a lot of noise from Moscow, but we have not yet seen any serious action. The omens are not promising. I heard just this morning that some countries’ intended high-level delegations to the funeral have not been able to obtain Russian visas. That probably tells us all we need to know.
2015-03-03b.797.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	Christopher Chope	The intransigence of the Russians is exemplified by the fact that they still hold in custody two Members of the Ukrainian Parliament, both of whom are members of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. When will my right hon. Friend get tough and insist on expelling Russia from the Parliamentary Assembly and the Council of Europe itself?
2015-03-03b.797.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Ukraine	Philip Hammond	We do not have plans to take that step at this stage, but I assure my hon. Friend that we raise the matter regularly—indeed, the Minister for Europe raised it with the Russian ambassador only last week. I am going to Kiev later this week, and we will continue to work with the Ukrainians to try to secure the release of those two Ukrainians, as well as the Estonian border guard who was captured by the Russians six months ago.
2015-03-03b.797.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Bedouin Villages	Jim Cunningham	What reports he has received on displacement of Bedouin in Southern Israel.
2015-03-03b.797.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Bedouin Villages	Andy Slaughter	What representations he has made on the potential demolition of the village of Umm al-Hiran in Negev.
2015-03-03b.797.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Bedouin Villages	Tobias Ellwood	We are deeply concerned about proposals to demolish Bedouin villages. We are monitoring the situation closely, including talking regularly to organisations that work with those communities.
2015-03-03b.797.8	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Bedouin Villages	Jim Cunningham	In an earlier answer to an Opposition Member, the Foreign Secretary said that we were talking only about buildings in relation to the peace process. He forgot to say that in order to facilitate the peace process, we have to get people out of those buildings, and that is the big issue. May I push the Minister a little further? There are a number of impending demolitions of villages to make way for Israeli settlements. Will the Minister discuss that issue with the Israeli Government, urge them to reconsider the upcoming evictions and demolitions due for next month, and instead consider villages co-existing side by side in the spirit of peace?
2015-03-03b.798.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Bedouin Villages	Tobias Ellwood	I agree with the hon. Gentleman, but the displacement issues in southern Israel, and the potential demolition of the Umm al-Hiran villages, are not in the occupied Palestinian territories but in green line Israel. That is a slightly separate debate or concern—if I can put it that way—to the illegal settlements that have been put forward, but nevertheless we are concerned and are having a dialogue with Israel about that.
2015-03-03b.798.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Bedouin Villages	Andy Slaughter	I welcome the Minister’s words, but may I urge on him a sense of urgency and purpose—urgency because the demolition order for Umm al-Hiran may be given in two weeks’ time, and purpose in the sense that action is needed? Will he ask the British ambassador to visit the village, and will he invoke the EU-Israeli association agreement that makes favourable trade relations dependent on Israel’s respect for human rights?
2015-03-03b.798.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Bedouin Villages	Tobias Ellwood	As I clarified, that is a different matter to the debate about the occupied Palestinian territories, but nevertheless we want a robust planning process that adequately addresses the needs of the Bedouin communities. We must keep pushing for that dialogue.
2015-03-03b.798.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Bedouin Villages	Bob Russell	Will the Minister confirm that the displacement of the Bedouin constitutes ethnic cleansing?
2015-03-03b.798.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Bedouin Villages	Tobias Ellwood	Again, I reiterate the difference between the two issues: one concerns the illegal settlements, and the other is a planning matter that we have raised concerns about. I visited the E1 area, which is where much of the attention is currently focused, and we have discouraged the growth of settlements in that area. Were the plans to go ahead, we would have a break between the Hebron and Bethlehem conurbations, and that would effectively end the middle east peace process.
2015-03-03b.798.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Bedouin Villages	Tony Baldry	Is the displacement of the Bedouin from the E1 area contrary to international humanitarian law—yes or no?
2015-03-03b.798.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Bedouin Villages	Tobias Ellwood	It is contrary to international law in that sense, and any nation has obligations when dealing with occupied territories and their occupants. We are discouraging Israel from further build, but the land swaps will be integral to any future long-term peace agreement. That is why we are in this quagmire.
2015-03-03b.798.8	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Iran: Hamas/Hezbollah	Rehman Chishti	What recent assessment he has made of the extent of Iran’s financial and material support for Hamas and Hezbollah.
2015-03-03b.798.9	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Iran: Hamas/Hezbollah	Tobias Ellwood	We have serious concerns about Iran’s support for militant groups, including Hezbollah and Hamas. That includes financial resources and training, as well as the supply of military equipment.
2015-03-03b.799.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Iran: Hamas/Hezbollah	Rehman Chishti	I thank the Minister for that answer. As part of our talks with Iran on its nuclear programme, will there be a specific condition on Iran to stop sponsoring and harbouring terrorism, whether that is supporting the Houthis in Yemen, interfering in Syria, interfering in Iraq with its militias against the Sunnis, or supporting Hezbollah, to ensure that we have a long-term solution, not a short-term fix?
2015-03-03b.799.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Iran: Hamas/Hezbollah	Tobias Ellwood	Discussions around a nuclear solution are separate to those other matters, but my hon. Friend is right to raise the issue. Iran is having a destabilising effect in the region, and that is a violation of UN resolution 1747 which makes illegal the export of weapon systems and armaments from Iran.
2015-03-03b.799.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Iran: Hamas/Hezbollah	Louise Ellman	Iran arms Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza, and it now threatens to arm Palestinians on the west bank who currently support President Abbas. In view of the Minister’s previous reply, what specific representations have the Government made to the United Nations about that flagrant breach of UN resolutions?
2015-03-03b.799.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Iran: Hamas/Hezbollah	Tobias Ellwood	The hon. Lady will be aware that the Prime Minister had his first meeting with the Prime Minister of Iran at the United Nations General Assembly and very much put those points down. She is right that Iran must question its role in the region. It must ask itself whether it wants to be a part of the problem or a part of the solution. We have spoken about Hamas and Hezbollah. Hezbollah is effectively propping up the Assad regime, because he is losing the officer class, which is depleted because of the war.
2015-03-03b.799.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Iran: Hamas/Hezbollah	Alistair Burt	Next week, as chair of the British Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, I will be welcoming the first delegation of Iranian parliamentarians to visit this country for some time. Will my hon. Friend welcome that development? He knows not only that the House will give full and appropriate courtesy to parliamentarians from Iran, but that it will take the opportunity to engage them in the full and frank discussion of matters between us, which is the only basis on which parliamentarians can build a relationship.
2015-03-03b.799.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Iran: Hamas/Hezbollah	Tobias Ellwood	My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is through full and frank engagement that we can get our message across. Dialogue with Iran has increased, but we must ensure that they are not only talking the talk, but that their actions speak as loud as their words.
2015-03-03b.799.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Cheryl Gillan	What assessment he has made of the level of public demand for a renegotiated settlement between the UK and the EU.
2015-03-03b.799.8	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Philip Hammond	I assess that mainstream opinion in the UK is that the EU is not currently delivering for Britain. We need to fix that problem, and only the Conservatives have a clear plan to do so. We will negotiate a new settlement with our EU neighbours, and one that works for Britain. We will then put that new settlement to the British people in an in/out referendum before the end of 2017. Only a Conservative Government will make that commitment. Labour and the Liberal Democrats do not want change, and UKIP cannot deliver it.
2015-03-03b.800.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Cheryl Gillan	The Conservative party is the only sane and significant party to guarantee, following a renegotiation, an in/out referendum on our membership of the EU. How many countries has the Foreign Secretary visited to discuss that renegotiation, what levels of engagement has he had, and is there a positive desire for change in other states that matches ours?
2015-03-03b.800.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Mr Speaker	I am grateful for the right hon. Lady’s three questions. The Foreign Secretary is a specialist in providing a pithy answer on a postcard.
2015-03-03b.800.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Philip Hammond	Thank you, Mr Speaker, for that vote of confidence. I have currently visited 23 of our partners in the European Union. In a nutshell, there is a very strong view that all member states want Britain to remain in the EU, an understanding that that can happen only if there is significant change in the EU, and a clear willingness to engage with us, particularly on our demands for improved competitiveness in the EU, which all member states want.
2015-03-03b.800.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Hugh Bayley	The Conservative manifesto at the last general election states: “European countries need to work together to boost global economic growth, fight global poverty, and combat global climate change. The European Union has a crucial part to play…A Conservative government will play an active and energetic role in the European Union to advance these causes.” Will that be the Conservative party’s policy in the next Parliament?
2015-03-03b.800.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Philip Hammond	That is exactly what we are doing. The hon. Gentleman seems to subscribe to the view of the world in which Britain sits isolated on the edge. We are a major player in Europe. We have the second largest economy in Europe. We are leading the way in so many areas within the European Union. We have to seize this opportunity to shape the European Union in a way that works for Britain. It went off the rails somewhere over the past 20 years, and we must take this opportunity of reform and renegotiation to get it back on the rails. Crucially, we must then let the British people have the final say on whether the package we have negotiated is good enough or not.
2015-03-03b.800.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Stephen Hammond	Like you, Mr Speaker, I have complete confidence in the Foreign Secretary. I am sure he has sensed not only that there is increased public demand for renegotiation, but that there is absolutely no movement in public demand for that referendum. Is that his assessment, and will he commit to a referendum prior to the end of 2017?
2015-03-03b.801.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Philip Hammond	I reiterate the commitment that the Prime Minister has already made that there will be a referendum by the end of 2017 if there is a Conservative Government. There is virtually no movement in polling evidence in the demand for a referendum. I will say something else to my hon. Friend: by creating the referendum we have—I will use the phrase again—lit a fire under our partners in Europe. They now know that they have to deliver change that is substantive and meaningful; not some backroom political deal, but something that will satisfy the British people in a referendum. That is what is driving the debate.
2015-03-03b.801.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Pat McFadden	It is clear that the European Union needs to reform to create more growth, more jobs and more competitiveness, so what is the Minister’s reaction to the warning issued this morning from the executive vice-president of Ford, Mr Jim Farley, who said, on the prospects of “Brexit”, “We really hope that doesn’t happen and we believe that the UK being part of the EU is critical for business”? Why does the Conservative party call for the march of the makers in one breath, yet pursue a policy that poses a direct threat to manufacturing jobs, manufacturing investment and trade? Is it that the Foreign Secretary does not see the contradiction, or is it instead a complete and utter absence of leadership when it comes to the European Union?
2015-03-03b.801.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Philip Hammond	It is that we need to resolve this issue. Of course, most people in this country recognise the value of the single market to Britain’s economy, but that comes at a price and it is a price we pay in loss of sovereignty and loss of control over many of our own affairs, including some that we do not need to lose control of. The debate will be on the correct balance between what is done at national level and what is done at European level, on the accountability of the European Union institutions to the people of the European Union, and on the European Union’s ability to drive economic growth across all our economies. That is what people in this country want resolved, and by resolving it we will create a more certain climate for business in the future.
2015-03-03b.801.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Tim Farron	The Foreign Secretary has kindly shared with us that he has spoken to 23 other member states and that they all support the United Kingdom’s remaining in the European Union. Can he tell us whether he supports Britain remaining in the European Union? Does he understand the damage that his policy is doing to British business and British interests in order to maintain a temporary peace in his party?
2015-03-03b.801.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	EU Membership (Renegotiation)	Philip Hammond	What would cause continuing damage to British industry is not resolving this issue once and for all. The only way to do that is to have a frank and open discussion about the problems in the European Union, to renegotiate the package and to put it to the British people—and then we have settled it for a generation.
2015-03-03b.801.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	MV Seaman Guard Ohio (UK Citizens)	Alan Reid	What steps he is taking to secure the return of the UK citizens who were aboard the MV Seaman Guard Ohio when she was detained by the Indian authorities.
2015-03-03b.802.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	MV Seaman Guard Ohio (UK Citizens)	Hugo Swire	We have regularly raised this case at the most senior levels of Government, and have pressed for the legal process to be resolved as soon as possible. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will be raising the issue yet again when he visits India next week. Last month, following requests from three of the men, we issued emergency travel documents. The men will still require permission from the Indian authorities before they are able to leave the country.
2015-03-03b.802.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	MV Seaman Guard Ohio (UK Citizens)	Alan Reid	I thank the Minister for that answer, but it is now eight months since an Indian court quashed the charges against my constituent Billy Irving. He, and the other UK citizens, are still unable to leave India because the legal process has ground to a halt. Will the Foreign Office redouble its efforts to persuade the Indian authorities to conclude the legal process quickly and get these men home?
2015-03-03b.802.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	MV Seaman Guard Ohio (UK Citizens)	Hugo Swire	The hon. Gentleman knows that we have raised this again and again at the highest possible level. Indeed, I am meeting him, and other Members who have been assiduous in raising this with us, in the next couple of days to update him. What we cannot do, however, is simply ignore the Indian judicial process or interfere with it. That is not to say that we do not share hon. Members’ frustrations about the pace of progress.
2015-03-03b.802.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	MV Seaman Guard Ohio (UK Citizens)	Ian Lavery	These six British soldiers all fought for the British Army on the front. They feel utterly betrayed by the Government because of what they see as a lack of assistance in their hour of need. They were all acquitted and freed on 10 July last year. We must be able to do something to get these people home. We must redouble our efforts.
2015-03-03b.802.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	MV Seaman Guard Ohio (UK Citizens)	Hugo Swire	My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister raised this with Prime Minister Modi in November 2014. The Deputy Prime Minister did so on his visit to India in August, as did the Foreign Secretary when he met his counterpart in October. I have done so numerous times at ministerial level and with the high commissioner here, and most recently British officials in Delhi raised concerns with the Ministry of External Affairs on 16 and 23 February . Members have been right to raise this again and again and we have kept Members informed. This has taken up a huge amount of time, but, in the management of expectation, I say again to the hon. Gentleman—I say it slowly and clearly—that we cannot ignore the Indian judicial process. We are dealing with a sovereign country, but we share the frustrations about the pace of progress.
2015-03-03b.802.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	UN Human Rights Council	Bridget Phillipson	What his priorities are for the 28th session of the UN Human Rights Council in March 2015.
2015-03-03b.802.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	UN Human Rights Council	David Lidington	Our priorities include the renewal of UN mandates on Syria, Burma and Iran, increasing international attention on Libya, Ukraine and the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, responding to UN reports on Gaza and ISIL activity in Iraq, and thematic resolutions on freedom of religion or belief, combating religious intolerance, and privacy. My right hon. and noble Friend Baroness Anelay is representing us at the session.
2015-03-03b.803.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	UN Human Rights Council	Bridget Phillipson	I am grateful to the Minister for his answer, but does he not see that Government attempts to undermine the European convention on human rights damage our international reputation on this issue and diminish our influence on human rights?
2015-03-03b.803.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	UN Human Rights Council	David Lidington	No, and if the hon. Lady looks at our record, particularly when this Government held the chairmanship of the Council of Europe, she will see that, on the contrary, we upheld the standards and values embodied in the convention and successfully negotiated sensible, pragmatic reforms to the way in which the convention is implemented that are in the interests of all states.
2015-03-03b.803.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	UN Human Rights Council	Mary Glindon	What does the Minister think this session’s high-level panel on the death penalty can achieve, particularly when so many Human Rights Council members use the death penalty?
2015-03-03b.803.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	UN Human Rights Council	David Lidington	It is true, of course, that many of the members of the Human Rights Council, who have been elected by the membership of the United Nations generally, still have the death penalty. The United Kingdom, both at the UN Human Rights Council and in our bilateral and multilateral relationships of all kinds, continues to stress that we regard the death penalty as completely unacceptable.
2015-03-03b.803.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	UN Human Rights Council	Jeremy Corbyn	Will the Minister use the opportunity of the Human Rights Council to raise the human rights crisis in central America, in particular in Mexico? Will he also raise these matters with President Peña Nieto during his visit and tie any future trade developments with Mexico to improvements in its human rights record and dealing with those who killed, probably, the 43 students—but also thousands of others who have died—and the forces that have acted with impunity in that country?
2015-03-03b.803.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	UN Human Rights Council	David Lidington	The hon. Gentleman will recall from the recent debate in Westminster Hall, in which he and I spoke, that we have a strong relationship with Mexico. We use that to seek improvements to Mexico’s human rights record and to give Mexico practical help in trying to improve its judicial and police systems in particular. That work will continue.
2015-03-03b.803.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	British Influence in the World	Mark Pawsey	What steps the Government have taken since 2010 to increase British influence around the world.
2015-03-03b.803.8	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	British Influence in the World	David Lidington	Despite the very tight spending environment, this Government have since 2010 opened nine new diplomatic missions in emerging countries and fast-growing economies and upgraded a further six posts. We have opened an FCO language centre and a diplomatic academy, and shaped the international agenda, including through groundbreaking conferences on the preventing sexual violence initiative, cyber-security and Somalia, and hosting successful summits of NATO and the G8.
2015-03-03b.804.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	British Influence in the World	Mark Pawsey	My constituents certainly recognise the increased standing of this country across the world under this Government. The Government have rightly made a priority of ending the practice of rape and sexual conflict as a tactic of war and addressing the shameful failure to bring perpetrators to justice. Will the Minister update us on this important initiative?
2015-03-03b.804.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	British Influence in the World	David Lidington	It is a cause of pride for this Government and this country that the FCO, particularly under the leadership of my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House, has for the first time got the international community to take seriously the scandal of the sexual abuse during war and conflict of countless numbers of women and, let us not forget, many men as well. We are now seeing the fruits of that, in the way in which countries such as Nepal, Bosnia, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Kosovo are taking up the challenge to put right the wrongs of the past and amend their practices for the future.
2015-03-03b.804.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	British Influence in the World	John Spellar	When this question was handed out, I was not sure that the Government would be aware that US General Ray Odierno would express concern about our defence capability, following Government cuts, or that the British General Sir Richard Shirreff would describe the Prime Minister as “a bit player” in the Ukraine crisis. When will the Minister recognise how much this Government have marginalised Britain?
2015-03-03b.804.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	British Influence in the World	David Lidington	I wish the right hon. Gentleman could talk to the leaders of countries such as Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, who have been grateful for the resolute political leadership this Government have given, and for the very practical contribution we have made to Baltic air policing and NATO training exercises to defend their security. The— [Interruption.]
2015-03-03b.804.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	British Influence in the World	Mr Speaker	I think the right hon. Gentleman is in the middle of his sentence.
2015-03-03b.804.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	British Influence in the World	David Lidington	I think that the right hon. Gentleman should reflect on the record of his Government and the state of decay in which they left the Foreign Office after their stewardship.
2015-03-03b.804.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Henry Smith	If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
2015-03-03b.804.8	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Philip Hammond	This week, we are delighted to welcome the President of Mexico and Senora Rivera on their state visit to the United Kingdom. Indeed, right about now, they should be being received by Her Majesty on Horse Guards parade. The UK and Mexico enjoy an excellent bilateral relationship, and we look forward to broadening and deepening that partnership this week. My three key priorities continue to be Russia and Ukraine, the struggle against violent Islamist extremism and our plans for the reform of the European Union. Later this week, I will visit Ukraine to discuss the situation on the ground and to assess implementation of the latest Minsk agreement. I will then travel to Warsaw and on to Riga to meet my EU counterparts over the weekend.
2015-03-03b.805.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Henry Smith	As part of the Mexican state visit, it is good to see the flags of the British overseas territories flying in Parliament square today. I am encouraged to hear that London and Madrid are talking about better relations over Gibraltar. I seek assurances from my right hon. Friend, however, that there will never be any discussions over the future of Gibraltar’s sovereignty so long as the people of Gibraltar wish to remain loyal to this country.
2015-03-03b.805.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Philip Hammond	That is our position, and I confirm that it will remain our position so long as there is a Conservative Government.
2015-03-03b.805.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Douglas Alexander	Last year, 2014, was dominated by news of horrendous violence against those of different faiths, from Boko Haram abducting Christian girls in Nigeria to the attacks by ISIL against Christians, Yazidis and other religious minorities within Iraq. In the light of those developments, does the Foreign Secretary agree that a global envoy for religious freedom, reporting to the Foreign Secretary should be appointed? If this Government choose to act, we will support them; if they do not, a Labour Government will act.
2015-03-03b.805.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Philip Hammond	Our general approach is to try to get things done using the mechanisms we have. We have an extensive diplomatic network around the world, and we have large amounts of soft power at our disposal, including the leverage that our large aid budget gives us. I do not think simply creating new posts and ticking a box delivers in the way the right hon. Gentleman and the previous Government seem to think it will.
2015-03-03b.805.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Steve Brine	The Minister will know that the UN has delayed by six months its report on human rights in Sri Lanka. A number of Sri Lankan constituents in my constituency are waiting for this report and are actively contacting their MP about it. Will the Minister push for the urgent release of this document, and will he please update us?
2015-03-03b.805.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Hugo Swire	We have worked closely. I have been to Sri Lanka and met the new President, the new Foreign Minister and the new Prime Minister, and the new Foreign Minister has been here. We recognise the concern of all the victims. We remain firmly committed to the Geneva process. This will not be an indefinite deferral; the report is due by September. The extra time recognises the changed political context in Sri Lanka, and it will allow the new Government to deliver on their commitment to engage with the high commissioner and establish their own credible accountancy process.
2015-03-03b.805.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Yasmin Qureshi	The persecution of the Rohingya by the Burmese Government still continues, and the appalling humanitarian situation they, and especially the refugees, face continues, too. Will the Foreign Secretary speak to Ban Ki-moon and ask him to go to Burma and personally to negotiate unrestricted humanitarian access for the Rohingya in the Rakhine state?
2015-03-03b.806.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Hugo Swire	Ban Ki-moon chairs a Friends of Myanmar meeting in New York, which I have attended. He is fully aware of what is going on in Burma. We remain extremely concerned about the plight of Rohingya, not least the white card issue that has just emerged, and we continue to lobby the Government in Burma on that basis.
2015-03-03b.806.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Charlotte Leslie	The ongoing crisis in Ukraine and our relationship with Russia have real implications for the United Kingdom’s energy security. Many might say that, had energy security been a more key component of strategic foreign policy for successive European Union Governments, we might now have more room for manoeuvre with Putin. Can the Foreign Secretary assure us that full consideration of our long-term energy security is currently at the forefront of, and central to, our response to the evolving situation in Ukraine?
2015-03-03b.806.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Philip Hammond	Yes, it is a key agenda item. I can reassure my hon. Friend that the United Kingdom is in a much better energy security position than many of our European Union partners. However, as our non-military response to Russia essentially depends on EU unity, we often find that we are as weak as the weakest link in that chain. There is an urgent need to ensure that the European Union as a whole improves its energy security over the coming years, both for reasons of competitiveness and for the sake of our own national security.
2015-03-03b.806.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Andrew Gwynne	What work will the Foreign Secretary do with his international counterparts to build on the progress that was made at the United Nations climate change conference in Lima last December? What role does he think that the Commonwealth has in that regard, given the vulnerability of a number of small island states?
2015-03-03b.806.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Hugo Swire	We are strongly committed to seeing a successful outcome to this year’s Paris meeting, and we played a leading role in the EU discussions on securing a forward-looking EU position. We will use our Commonwealth membership and our bilateral relationship with the Commonwealth countries to reach out to the nations to which the hon. Gentleman refers, so that we can seek the ambitious global agreement that I think Members on both sides of the House would like to see.
2015-03-03b.806.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	David Burrowes	There is another country in Europe that has been occupied and divided for not just one year, but 40. What priority are the Government giving to solving the Cyprus problem?
2015-03-03b.806.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	David Lidington	We continue to give strong support to the efforts of the United Nations envoy, Espen Barth Eide, to bring the two communities in Cyprus together. A settlement would be in the interests of all communities there. I was very pleased that yesterday the Foreign Office re-hosted a meeting at which the chambers of commerce of both Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities were represented by their presidents, both of whom spoke eloquently about the way in which a settlement would increase the prosperity of everyone on the island.
2015-03-03b.807.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Lilian Greenwood	There is huge frustration among my many constituents who have roots and family ties in the disputed territory of Kashmir. Little progress has been made for decades, and the region still suffers as a result of militarisation, violence and human rights abuses. What recent discussions has the Secretary of State had with India and Pakistan, and what hopes has he for a better future for Kashmir in which account will be taken of the views of Kashmiri people?
2015-03-03b.807.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Hugo Swire	My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary raised the issue with Nawaz Sharif when he was here recently, and will raise it again when he travels to India. We are encouraged to note that some talks appear to be taking place between India and Pakistan, because we know how much concern there is throughout the country.
2015-03-03b.807.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	John Baron	Given our admission that we were unsighted over Russia and Crimea, and given that we were short of Arabists following the Arab spring, is there not a case for spending more on our foreign policy capabilities? Would that not only ensure that we were better sighted, but reduce costs in the longer term because we would be able to avoid making further mistakes?
2015-03-03b.807.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	David Lidington	The Foreign Office makes a huge effort, in difficult fiscal times, to focus our resources on key elements of policy analysis and capability, including those involving the middle east and Russia, which, as my hon. Friend suggests, are particularly important. About 170 of our officers are now registered as having ability in Arabic, and a similar number are registered as having ability in Russian.
2015-03-03b.807.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Grahame Morris	We know that 163 Palestinian children are being held in Israeli military detention, and that many are being held inside Israel in direct violation of the fourth Geneva convention. What representations is the Secretary of State making to the Israeli authorities with a view to ending that brutal aspect of the illegal occupation?
2015-03-03b.807.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Philip Hammond	We routinely make representations to the Israelis on all aspects of illegal conduct—of which that is just one example—and we will continue to do so.
2015-03-03b.807.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Jacob Rees-Mogg	As the Government prepare for renegotiating the European treaties, will they give their full support to the Swiss in their efforts to change their terms of free movement of people as a sign of their sincerity and a symbol that free movement of people is not an unchallengeable part of the European state?
2015-03-03b.807.7	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Philip Hammond	As everybody knows, Switzerland is outside the European Union and has negotiated terms for access to the single European market, as has Norway, but those terms require the Swiss and Norwegians to accept wholesale the body of EU law without having any say in the making of it, to contribute financially and to abide by the principles of free movement. The Swiss have sought unilaterally to change that arrangement and they have been firmly rebuffed by the EU.
2015-03-03b.808.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	William Bain	Does the Secretary of State agree with his fellow Conservative and counterpart in Norway Vidar Helgesen that with the single market needing bold leadership for its completion and with Europe facing its biggest security crisis since the cold war, it would be a disaster for Britain to sleepwalk out of the EU?
2015-03-03b.808.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	David Lidington	I had another very good meeting with Vidar Helgesen when he was in London last week, and he is quite open in saying, as my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has just said to the House, that Norway has access to the single market but has to contribute to the EU budget, implement EU law and accept freedom of movement without any say in how those decisions are made, which is why my view is that this country is better off in a reformed EU, rather than adopting the kind of status Norway has.
2015-03-03b.808.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Hugh Robertson	Is the Foreign Secretary able to update the House on any progress in the Syrian peace talks and in particular, if it remains the Government’s ambition to remove President Assad, what progress we have made in building up an alternative Government capable of taking on IS?
2015-03-03b.808.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Philip Hammond	I have to tell my right hon. Friend candidly that the co-ordination between the civilian Syrian opposition and the moderate armed opposition is still disappointing. It is one of the areas on which we and our allies are working. We are committed to taking part in the programme of training and equipping members of the moderate Syrian opposition outside Syria, and that programme is beginning to gather pace now.
2015-03-03b.808.4	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Barry Gardiner	Was it the UK that first offered, or was it Ukraine that first requested, the presence of British military advisers, and can the Foreign Secretary assure us that their presence is more likely to lead to a peaceful settlement, rather than an escalation of the process?
2015-03-03b.808.5	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	David Lidington	There has been a discussion between the Ukrainian Government and ourselves and a number of other European Governments and the United States about various types of assistance, including non-lethal military assistance, and there was agreement among those different allied Governments to supply help to Ukraine. We think that the training will enable the Ukrainian army to operate more effectively than it has been able to do up until now, and that that offer of training would have been justified irrespective of the Russian intervention in the east.
2015-03-03b.808.6	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Matthew Offord	Recent reports emerging from Iran say the regime has been secretly enriching uranium since 2008 at an underground plant in suburban Tehran named as Lavizan-3. What assessment has the Foreign Secretary made of this concerning news, and does he agree that no deal should be signed with Iran until the International Atomic Energy Agency has unfettered access to all the nuclear programme?
2015-03-03b.809.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Philip Hammond	My hon. Friend is right that this is a new piece of information. We have no corroboration of that report at the moment, but he is absolutely right that we will need to look into it and be clear before we reach any conclusion with Iran in the nuclear negotiations.
2015-03-03b.809.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Fiona Mactaggart	The Minister, the hon. Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood) , earlier said that he did not feel it was right to do anything about the Israel-Palestine situation until after the Israeli election, yet given that none of the major parties in that election is committed to withdrawal from the occupied territories, is not now the time to say that Britain intends to recognise Palestine?
2015-03-03b.809.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Philip Hammond	If only it were that simple. I understand that the hon. Lady’s point is well made, but I can tell her exactly what any such statements now will do: they will play to the hard right in the Israeli elections. That will not make a settlement more likely; it will make it less likely.
2015-03-03b.809.3	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-03b.810.0	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	Order. Foreign Office questions are a box office hit, and demand always exceeds supply. Last but not least, I call Mr Andrew Stephenson.
2015-03-03b.810.1	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Andrew Stephenson	Pendle is home to a number of Pakistani Christian families, whose concerns I raise in the House. Given our long-standing cultural and economic ties, and the support that we provide to Pakistan via the Department for International Development, what more can my ministerial colleagues do to ensure religious freedom and tolerance there?
2015-03-03b.810.2	FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE	Topical Questions	Tobias Ellwood	My hon. Friend raises an important issue. The Pakistani diaspora in this country is a large one and we have a very strong relationship with Pakistan, but we are concerned about the misuse of blasphemy laws there. I have raised the issue with the Prime Minister and through the parliamentary delegation that went to Pakistan only last week.
2015-03-03b.811.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	I have to notify the House, in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, that Her Majesty has signified her Royal Assent to the following Acts: Pension Schemes Act 2015 Serious Crime Act 2015.
2015-03-03b.812.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Andrew Smith	(Urgent Question) : To ask the Secretary of State if she will make a statement on the serious case review into child sexual exploitation in Oxfordshire.
2015-03-03b.812.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	I thank the right hon. Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith) for his question. No child should have to suffer what the victims of child sexual exploitation in Oxfordshire have suffered. The serious case review published today by Oxfordshire’s local safeguarding children board is an indictment of the failure of front-line workers to protect extremely vulnerable young people over a number of years. Reading the details of what happened to them has been truly sickening. The serious case review makes it clear that numerous opportunities to intervene to protect those girls were missed, as police and social workers failed to look beyond what they saw as troubled teenagers to the frightened child within. I welcome the publication of the serious case review. It is only by publishing such in-depth accounts of what happened, and what went wrong and why, that children’s social care systems locally and nationally can address the failings that have betrayed some of our most vulnerable children. That is why this Government have insisted that serious case reviews be published, and in full. The children’s Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson) , has also written today, with Ministers from the Home Office and the Department of Health, to the Oxfordshire safeguarding children board requesting a further assessment of the progress being made, and we will send an expert in child sexual exploitation to support the board this month. Sadly, Oxfordshire was not alone in failing to address the dangers of child sexual exploitation. We now know from Professor Alexis Jay’s and Louise Casey’s reports into Rotherham and the report by the hon. Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) in Manchester that child sexual exploitation has been a scourge in many communities around the country. This Government have been determined to do everything within their power to tackle child sexual exploitation, and that is why we are today publishing an action plan setting out the action we have already taken to strengthen our approach to safeguarding children from sexual exploitation, along with the further steps that we think are necessary to address the culture of denial; improve joint working; stop offenders; support victims; and strengthen accountability and leadership. We are setting up a national centre of expertise into tackling child sexual exploitation, to support local areas around the country, and there will be a new whistleblowing portal so that anyone can report their concerns. We have also prioritised child sexual exploitation as a national threat, so that police forces will now be under a duty to collaborate across force boundaries, and we will consult on extending the criminal offence of wilful neglect to children’s social care, education professionals and elected members. This afternoon, I will be joining the Prime Minister, the Home Secretary and other Secretaries of State in Downing street to discuss with local and police leaders how we will collectively take forward the actions set out in today’s plan. The experiences of the children set out in this serious case review should never have happened. We are determined to do everything in our power to stamp out this horrific abuse and to bring the perpetrators to justice.
2015-03-03b.813.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Andrew Smith	I thank the Secretary of State for her response. Does she agree that the victims, the 370 other children identified as at risk, their families and the public, who are horrified that these sickening crimes were allowed to continue for so many years, are owed answers to crucial questions which the serious case review could not address? How was it that there was a culture in the county council and the police whereby such serious incidents were not escalated to senior officers? How was it that a professional tolerance of under-age sexual activity developed, as the report says, to the extent that it contributed to the failure to stop the abuse? Who takes responsibility for the catastrophic failings? The chief constable and the council chief executive have apologised, but they did not know what was happening. The chief constable is moving on; the former directors of social services and of children and families have left; the former leader of the council retired; the lead member for children’s services was reshuffled; and the chief executive of Oxfordshire council saw her position made redundant at the end of January, only for the council leader last week to admit that they had made a hash of it and so the situation has to be reviewed. Does the Secretary of State agree that the much commendable work done by the council, the police and other agencies to improve protection and prosecution since Operation Bullfinch cannot distract from the horrors of what went wrong? We saw failure to act on clear evidence of organised sexual exploitation; failure to provide protection to children; failure to draw serious issues to the attention of senior management; failure to heed the concerns of junior staff; chaotic arrangements for child protection; unminuted meetings; and a professional disregard for the illegality of young girls being forced to have sex with older men. Should there not be wider, independent scrutiny of the internal management reviews which underpinned this serious case review? Do the public interest and redress for victims not dictate that those responsible for these failings should be fully held to account? Will the Government set up an independent inquiry into what went wrong and who made the mistakes that enabled this depraved exploitation of vulnerable girls to go on for so long, so that the lessons are learned from these awful crimes and from the failure of public bodies to provide the protection that it was their duty to provide to children who were suffering such unspeakable abuse?
2015-03-03b.813.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	I thank the right hon. Gentleman very much for his questions, and I fully respect the emotion and passion with which he and other Members will be discussing these matters—these very serious matters, as he has set out. He talks about failures and he is right to do so. He is also absolutely right to say that at the heart of this are the young people who have been utterly let down by the system and whose lives have been blighted. It is important that we think about all the victims and their families, and I am pleased to confirm that part of today’s summit and the announcements thereof is a £7 million fund to support those who have been victims. Clearly, however, there is much more that we all need to do. The right hon. Gentleman asks how the culture arose and why things were not escalated. He also mentions the so-called professional tolerance of these crimes and asked who takes responsibility. On accountability, he set out the position of various people working within Oxfordshire, some of whom are still in their positions and some of whom have moved on. It is not for me to apportion blame—that is a matter for Oxfordshire county council, the police and the health agencies locally—and the purpose of this serious case review is to understand what went wrong and why, and to ensure that we learn the lessons for the future. He is absolutely right to highlight another point, which Maggie Blyth, the independent reviewer, talked about this morning when she said that although “there was no disregard of clear warnings at top level and no denial by those in charge, their lack of understanding of what was happening on the front line caused unacceptable delays. This allowed offenders to get away with their crimes. The review describes a culture in Oxfordshire where the value of escalation to the top was not understood.” The review also contains some heart-rending comments from the victims. One that particularly stands out was: “If a perpetrator can spot the vulnerable children, why can’t professionals?” The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that many more questions will need to be answered. The right hon. Gentleman asks about future reviews and inquiries, and the letter signed today by Ministers from my Department, the Home Office and the Department of Health makes it clear that we are proposing that the local safeguarding children board leads a specific piece of work on the impact of the multi-agency approach to tackling child sexual exploitation in Oxfordshire. We have appointed Sophie Humphreys to work alongside Oxfordshire county council to gather the evidence on the effect of its reforms to front-line practice. The right hon. Gentleman correctly highlights the fact that the council has taken action since these allegations all first came to light. As has been recognised by the serious case review, there has been tremendous investment in services to support children at risk of sexual exploitation, including the establishment of the specialist Kingfisher team, a multi-agency front-line service for victims of child sexual exploitation; the training of thousands of front-line staff in raising awareness; and an increase in the number of front-line staff as a whole. The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to highlight the fact that lives have been blighted by these crimes. Questions need to be answered, some of which will be addressed this afternoon in the Prime Minister’s summit in Downing street. The right hon. Gentleman says that lessons need to be learned, which is a phrase that is often used in these sorts of cases. But that is not enough. We want action. It was very clear that those who came across this information, not just in Oxfordshire but in other authorities, did not act on it and that is unacceptable.
2015-03-03b.814.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicola Blackwood	Nothing more distressingly demonstrates how completely local agencies failed in this area than the words of survivors. One victim said, “I turned up at a police station at 2 am or 3 am with blood all over me, soaked through my trousers to the crotch. They dismissed me as being naughty and a nuisance. I was bruised and bloody.” Another victim said, “Social services washed their hands. It is your choice, I was told.” We must not only pay tribute to the victims for their bravery in coming forward, but recognise that such serious abuse has long-term and complex consequences. I ask the Education Secretary today to make it a personal priority to ensure that these survivors get the long-term and sustainable support that they need.
2015-03-03b.815.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	I thank my hon. Friend for her remarks. I know that she, as an Oxfordshire MP, has been deeply involved in these matters, and I pay tribute to her for her work. I can assure her that my Department and all relevant Departments will do all we can to help and support the victims of these crimes. She is absolutely right to talk about the culture of denial, and the unwillingness to look at the signs of physical and mental abuse inflicted on the victims, which will undoubtedly affect them for the long term. That is why dealing with these issues and ensuring that the front-line professionals take action is so important.
2015-03-03b.815.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Tristram Hunt	After Rochdale and Rotherham comes an account of the horrific events in Oxford. Let us be clear that it is the heinous crimes and the callous wickedness of Mohammed and Bassam Karrar, Akhtar and Anjum Dogar, Kamar Jamil, Assad Hussain and Zeeshan Ahmed that needs to be condemned again today. They are the ones responsible for the sadism, the grooming, the abuse and the torture that was inflicted on vulnerable girls in Oxford, robbing them of their adolescence, their health and their sense of worth. The serious case review report also reveals that both Thames Valley police and Oxfordshire county council completely let down those victims. In the words of one victim, “The police never asked me why” I went missing; “I made a complaint about a man who trafficked me from a children’s home. He was arrested, released and trafficked me again.” As we saw in Rochdale, the voice of victims was not listened to and prejudicial thinking around lifestyle choices blocked detailed investigation. These were young girls, exploited teenagers, suffering terrible abuse. Once again, we need to ensure that care homes, the police, social workers and health workers eradicate any cultural tolerance of the abuse of young girls. As Maggie Blyth from the Oxfordshire safeguarding children board said, there were “repeated missed opportunities” which could have been “identified or prevented earlier.” Government have a role to play, so let me put these questions to the Secretary of State. Is she satisfied that the safeguarding arrangements in place for children in Oxfordshire today are right and proper and will prevent more children from being vulnerable to child sexual exploitation? Do the Government now intend to establish an independent inquiry into Oxfordshire county council to see whether it has the capacity to safeguard its children? We know that the work of Alexis Jay and Louise Casey in Rotherham was instrumental in sorting out that council in its approach to child sexual exploitation. Will the same approach be taken with Oxfordshire? Will there be further action taken against those agencies and individuals who are found to have failed these children? The Prime Minister is today setting out new measures to end “wilful neglect”. What is the Government’s definition of “wilful neglect”? Is the Secretary of State satisfied that the definition places sufficient onus on individuals who come into contact with children to report signs of abuse? Will she and the Home Secretary now support stronger laws on child exploitation and abduction? Will she look again at child abduction warning orders and the specific offence of child exploitation? Finally, will the Secretary of State now join the cross-party consensus—the Labour party, the Liberal Democrats, the Education Committee and all professionals in the field—and support age-appropriate statutory sex and relationship education to teach young people about consent and healthy relationships? We need to give young people the armoury and the education to know that this kind of sexual abuse is wrong and needs to be stripped out of British society?
2015-03-03b.816.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	I thank the hon. Gentleman for his statement and his questions. I agree with his analysis that voices were not listened to. He points out that prosecutions have already taken place for crimes that have been committed. He is right to say that there should be no holding back on prosecutions because of the perpetrators’ background. As the Prime Minister rightly said this morning, that relates not just to Oxfordshire. There have been other terrible cases, as we have seen in the past few months, if not years. The Prime Minister said that a warped sense of political correctness had potentially prevented some investigations from taking place. The hon. Gentleman asks about inspections. Ofsted inspected Oxfordshire children’s services last year and highlighted, as he did, the steps that had been taken in relation to Oxfordshire children’s services. I have already mentioned the letter sent by my right hon. Friends this morning in relation to the appointment of a senior children’s services expert to go back into Oxfordshire to look into the points raised in the serious case review. The hon. Gentleman mentions the Louise Casey report. That was a wider report on council governance in Rotherham, in particular. In Oxfordshire we are looking specifically at the children’s services departments, but clearly this is an ongoing issue. He mentions the offence of wilful neglect, which we have said we will consult on. That is a concept set out in the Mental Capacity Act 2005 and has been proposed by my right hon. Friend the Health Secretary in relation to the lessons and the consequences of the Mid Staffs issues. It is a failure to act by a person who has a duty of care, in this case to children and young people. The hon. Gentleman refers to the offence of child sexual exploitation. There are already many offences under which the perpetrators have been prosecuted, including, clearly, sexual relations with children and child rape. He mentions the education of young people in schools. I am fully in favour of excellent PSHE, sex and relationship education and education on consent, but it must be excellent. It cannot just be about ticking boxes. He talks about young people perhaps not knowing that what was happening to them was wrong. I think he knows that that is not the case, given the quotes from the victims in the serious case review. They knew that what was happening to them was wrong. They asked for help but they did not get it.
2015-03-03b.817.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Tony Baldry	Does my right hon. Friend agree that every police officer, council official and social worker should consider whether a youngster is a child, and if they may be a child, they should be regarded as a child, listened to as a child and protected as a child, and that any professional who fails to provide that protection should risk disciplinary and criminal proceedings?
2015-03-03b.817.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	My right hon. Friend is right. The offences in this case and in many others were committed against children. There can be no doubt that children of the age involved cannot give their consent to what was perpetrated against them. That should have made it much clearer to those who received reports or should have taken action that they needed to do so, and they were professionally incompetent for not doing so.
2015-03-03b.817.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Barry Sheerman	Does the Secretary of State agree that these ghastly crimes against children are a blight on any civilised society and that we must stop them occurring? Does she further agree that it is too often too easy to provide a fast knee-jerk response and get it wrong? Let us look very carefully at the evidence and consider how to respond. Let us look also at the way in which we are shrinking childhood in this country. Personally, I would like to see the age of consent raised. I oppose votes at 16 because that will bring the end of childhood closer. There is too much pressure on childhood and we as a society must look carefully at the preciousness of the childhood years.
2015-03-03b.817.3	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	The hon. Gentleman is right that what we have seen in Oxfordshire and elsewhere are abhorrent, sickening crimes, and they are crimes. He is right to say that any of us in any position of authority feels that those are a stain on our society and must be eradicated. He is right to say that we do not want to rush into responding, but where immediate action must be taken, it is important that it is taken. That is what we have seen in Rotherham, for example, with the appointment of the commissioners. The Secretaries of State have been meeting since last autumn to discuss the Government’s response to Rotherham in particular, which will be announced at Downing street this afternoon. We have taken time and there will be further consultations coming out of the response. We have already announced reforms to children’s social work practice, and that is a long-term response about improving training. He will understand that there needs to be a mixture of responses to something as sickening as this.
2015-03-03b.817.4	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Graham Stuart	We must do everything we can to reduce the vulnerability of the young people we have heard about today. Further to the question from the Opposition spokesman and the Secretary of State’s response, my Committee agrees about the need for excellent sex and relationship education in schools precisely to give resilience to young people, to enable them to talk about consent in a meaningful way, as one witness put it, and to tell them about age gaps and predatory behaviours so that they start to recognise those. We wrestled with how we would get the curriculum time and the investment in teacher quality if we do not make such education statutory—reluctantly, because we do not want to impose further duties on schools. We came to the conclusion that that had to be made statutory if we are to deliver it. If the Secretary of State thinks it should not be statutory, will she tell us why, or tell us what else could be done in lieu of what we suggested to make these things happen?
2015-03-03b.818.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	I thank my hon. Friend the Chairman of the Select Committee for his remarks. The Committee produced an interesting report and I know that the Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb) gave evidence to the Committee. We will consider the conclusions carefully. In relation to consent, it is important to know is that the victims in these cases knew that they had not given consent. There was no question about consent being given. They knew that what was happening to them was absolutely wrong. Sex and relationship education is already compulsory in secondary maintained schools. Most academies and free schools also teach it, and I suspect that many primaries do so in an age-appropriate way. I was at Eastbourne academy last week talking to the students there about what they call SPHERE, which is like PSHE. The academy taught it in a fantastic way. It did not need to be told to do so; it did not need such teaching to be statutory. It was doing it because, exactly as the Chairman of the Select Committee said, it was preparing young people to be resilient.
2015-03-03b.818.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Helen Jones	The whole House will be appalled at what has happened in Oxfordshire, but does the Secretary of State understand that we are appalled also that individuals who preside over these failing systems are not held to account? If there was a council where junior social workers have not referred these things up the system, where senior officers and senior councillors were unaware of them, that is a sign of a failing system within a council, and a proper independent outside inquiry is needed to get to the heart of why that system failed and to put it right, as was rightly done in Rotherham. Will the right hon. Lady explain to us why that is not happening now?
2015-03-03b.818.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	The serious case review is an important step in what the hon. Lady calls for. It identifies the fact that, as she said, in Oxfordshire’s case there were junior people who were producing reports but those did not reach a senior enough level. There are other councils, as we know, one of which is Rotherham, where junior people did put in reports which were raised at a senior level, and the people at a senior level chose not to act on them. I have sympathy for the hon. Lady’s point about accountability and people taking responsibility. It will clearly be a matter for Oxfordshire county council, the police and others to think about who needs to take responsibility for these matters. We have already seen that in Rotherham my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government has appointed a whole new set of commissioners to run that council. There are other councils where those in charge have taken responsibility and have resigned.
2015-03-03b.819.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Cheryl Gillan	I welcome the measures announced today and the Secretary of State’s indication that child sexual exploitation is now seen as a national threat, which shows the scale of abuse that I think is suspected. Thames Valley police suffered from many failings, but they have made some progress since 2013—I believe that 47 offenders have been successfully charged with 201 child sexual exploitation offences. What can she say at this stage about the support that she and her colleague in the Home Office, the Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims, will give to police officers and those on the front line who have to deal with these terrible offences?
2015-03-03b.819.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	My right hon. Friend is absolutely right that child sexual abuse will now be prioritised by every police force in England and Wales as a national threat, just like serious and organised crime, which means forces will now have a duty to collaborate to safeguard children, including through more efficient sharing of resources, intelligence and best practice. They will also be supported by specialist regional CSE police co-ordinators. I think that the national policing lead will be at this afternoon’s summit, where I expect to hear about much better training for all police officers.
2015-03-03b.819.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Kevin Barron	Sadly, this report echoes many of the examples of child abuse we have heard about in my own borough of Rotherham and elsewhere. I have two things to say to the Secretary of State. First, Ofsted also carried out an inspection in Rotherham and gave it a clean bill of health when that clearly was not the case. Secondly, she is right to say that Louise Casey’s report on governance went wider than child protection, but it was set up specifically because of the child abuse taking place in Rotherham. Is the Secretary of State satisfied that the scrutiny by elected members in Oxfordshire is up to the standard necessary to protect our young children? It clearly was not in my borough, and people are rightly having to take responsibility for that. Is she happy that that is being done in the elected Oxfordshire county council as well?
2015-03-03b.819.3	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	The right hon. Gentleman is right to say that Ofsted inspected Rotherham before the issues came to light. The Ofsted framework has since changed, so the inspection carried out in Rotherham was based on a different framework and asked different questions from those of the inspection that we see today and the one that was carried out in Oxfordshire last summer. He is right to raise the issue of elected members, which is one of the questions that we will continue to go back to in Oxfordshire. He will be aware that the proposals on wilful neglect that the Prime Minister announced this morning will also apply to elected members.
2015-03-03b.819.4	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	John Howell	I, too, pay tribute to the victims of these appalling crimes. Has the Secretary of State taken into account the fact that Operation Bullfinch, which brought the perpetrators to justice, has transformed the legal landscape in which cases can be heard? Have the good points that were brought out from Operation Bullfinch been taken into account across the country?
2015-03-03b.819.5	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	I thank my hon. Friend, who is absolutely right to put support for the victims at the heart of all this. He is right that things have moved on as a result partly of Operation Bullfinch and partly of other operations and lessons learned from other cases. It is a different landscape but, as he will appreciate, that does not take away from the harm done to the victims.
2015-03-03b.820.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	John Mann	I called for the immediate removal and resignation of the Labour leadership of Rotherham council. Will the Secretary of State join me in calling for the resignation of the political leadership of Oxfordshire county council?
2015-03-03b.820.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	I think that is a matter for the leaders and elected members of Oxfordshire county council to consider. The serious case review obviously covers failings from 2004 to 2011. We have today asked for a further locally led assessment of child sexual exploitation in Oxfordshire and for Sophie Humphreys to continue that work. Let me say to the hon. Gentleman that this work is ongoing.
2015-03-03b.820.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Paul Beresford	Two weeks ago I was with the Metropolitan police jigsaw unit and paedophile unit, and they will be delighted to a degree to hear her statement on education, because they feel that that is the answer, but they want it to be slanted more towards prevention. Teach what is normally taught, but also teach children about prevention, particularly on the internet. The Metropolitan police used to have a very good scheme that certainly worked for children and teachers, but it seems to have disappeared.
2015-03-03b.820.3	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	My hon. Friend is right about the importance of education. It is all about the quality of the teaching materials and of the teaching that goes on in schools. There is no point having some sort of lip service paid to lessons about consent or anything else if the lessons do not sink in. The Government have invested in the PSHE Association, supporting improved teaching materials and improved guidance on consent.
2015-03-03b.820.4	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Debbie Abrahams	May I press the Secretary of State on the need for an independent inquiry? If the cultural issues that led to complaints and concerns not being escalated have not been addressed, why should there not be an independent inquiry?
2015-03-03b.820.5	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	As I said earlier, the serious case review is an independent inquiry and, under this Government, it will be published in full so that we can all see what has been said. As I have said, we propose that there should be a specific piece of work led by Oxfordshire’s safeguarding children board on the impact of the multi-agency approach to tackling CSE, and we are appointing a children’s services expert to work alongside the council and gather evidence of the reforms it has already made to front-line practice.
2015-03-03b.820.6	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Damian Green	I know that there are many police officers at all levels of the service who are appalled at the policing failures that led to the wider failures in this terrible set of cases. I appreciate that this does not fall within the Secretary of State’s ministerial responsibility, but does she share my view that the key thing in the training of police officers now is to change the culture of disbelief so that they treat vulnerable young women no longer as a problem but as victims of crime?
2015-03-03b.821.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	My right hon. Friend is right to point to the culture of denial and disbelief. As we heard from the right hon. Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith) , there was sometimes a reluctance to believe allegations, even when victims presented themselves in a state at a police station. The Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims is sitting alongside me, and I know that he is as appalled as we all are about this. As we have learned, there are lessons for the police that will be picked up at today’s summit.
2015-03-03b.821.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Fiona Mactaggart	The Secretary of State earlier said, “We on this side of the House are concerned”. May I take this opportunity to remind her that all Members on both sides of the House are united in their determination to drive out child sexual exploitation? I ask her to look at two particular proposals to increase resilience to such exploitation among children: first, to feed into the Home Office review of child advocates the lessons from this review; and secondly, to take up a suggestion made by worried mums in my constituency for parents’ PSHE so that they can better protect their children.
2015-03-03b.821.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	The hon. Lady will appreciate that I cannot speak for Opposition Members, but I think that the tone of remarks from the shadow Education Secretary and others has shown that Members on both sides of the House are appalled by what has happened to the victims, and sadly not only in Oxfordshire, but in other local authorities. She will be well aware of what has happened to Slough’s children’s services and of the work that has been done there to set up the trust over the years. I understand her point about child advocates, which has already been taken up, and what she says about parents, whether in relation to PSHE or anything else. In this case, however, looking again at the serious case review, there were parents of victims also saying that they needed help, but they were not believed. That makes this case even more appalling.
2015-03-03b.821.3	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Andrew Stephenson	As my right hon. Friend has said, child sexual exploitation has been a scourge in many communities across the UK. I am pleased that Lancashire police have taken a lead on those issues for a number of years now and regularly update me on local prosecutions. Will she say more about the level of support she can provide for the charities and non-statutory bodies that are doing such fantastic work to support victims but find themselves under increasing pressure at this time?
2015-03-03b.822.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	Although many statutory agencies will be responsible for dealing with these issues in supporting victims and their families, my hon. Friend is absolutely right to pay tribute to the charities and the voluntary and community sector, which provide that support as well. This afternoon, for example, representatives from the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, Barnardo’s and Rape Crisis are attending a summit on this. I know from my role as Minister for Women and Equalities—the policing Minister will appreciate this too—that smaller organisations often find very valuable support in communities. We absolutely want to help them to do their job.
2015-03-03b.822.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Bill Esterson	When the Education Committee carried out a year-long inquiry into child protection, we found that more needed to be done to support professionals in responding effectively and consistently to the early signs of neglect. Neglect causes long-term damage to thousands of young people every year. Therefore, should not prevention of neglect be as much of a priority as finding the perpetrators and supporting the victims, which the Secretary of State has talked about, and should that not include support for professionals, as recommended by the Committee and accepted by the Government two years ago in their response to our report?
2015-03-03b.822.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire)	Nicky Morgan	The hon. Gentleman talks about the need to deal with neglect, and I entirely agree. Sadly, there are many vulnerable children across our country. I am sure that we see them in our role as constituency Members of Parliament and work with them and their families. I mention to him the work that this Government have undertaken through the troubled families programme, which is turning round the lives of thousands of children. We also have the new knowledge and skills statement for children’s social workers that has been prepared by the chief children’s social worker, Isabelle Trowler, who does a fantastic job in my Department, and the wider reforms that I have announced in training for children’s social work. It all very well to have lots of children’s social workers, but it is also very important to ensure the quality of their training and of the work that they do in supporting vulnerable children and families.
2015-03-03b.823.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Keith Vaz	(Urgent Question): To ask the Home Secretary to make a statement on Yarl’s Wood immigration detention centre.
2015-03-03b.823.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	Detention is an important part of a firm but fair immigration system. It is right that those with no right to remain in the UK are returned to their home country if they will not leave voluntarily, but a sense of fairness must always be at the heart of our immigration system, including for those we are removing from the UK. That is why the allegations made by Channel 4 about Serco staff at Yarl’s Wood are serious and deeply concerning, it is why they required an immediate response to address them, and it is why the Government have ensured that that is being done. All immigration removal centres are subject to the detention centre rules approved by this House in 2001. Those rules, and further operational guidance, set out the standards that we all expect to ensure that the safety and dignity of detainees is upheld. No form of discrimination is tolerated. In addition to the rules, removal centres are subject to regular independent inspections by Her Majesty’s inspectorate of prisons and by independent monitoring boards that publish their findings. The chairman of the independent monitoring board for Yarl’s Wood is Mary Coussey, the former independent race monitor. The most recent inspection by Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons found Yarl’s Wood to be a safe and respectful centre that is continuing to improve. The last annual report of the independent monitoring board commented positively on the emphasis placed on purposeful activities within the centre and the expansion of welfare provision, and raised no concerns about safety. None the less, the Home Office expects the highest levels of integrity and professionalism from all its contractors and takes any allegations of misconduct extremely seriously. As soon as we were made aware of the recent allegations, Home Office officials visited Yarl’s Wood to secure assurances that all detainees were being treated in a safe and dignified manner. The director general of immigration enforcement has written to Serco making our expectations about its response to these allegations very clear. We told Serco that it must act quickly and decisively to eradicate the kinds of attitudes that appear to have been displayed by its staff. Serco immediately suspended one member of staff who could be identified from information available before the broadcast, and has suspended another having seen the footage. The company has also commissioned an independent review of its culture and staffing at Yarl’s Wood. This will be conducted for Serco by Kate Lampard, who, as the House will be aware, recently produced the “lessons learned” review of the Jimmy Savile inquiries for the Department of Health. However, more needs to be done. The Home Office has made it clear that we expect to see the swift and comprehensive introduction of body-worn cameras for staff at Yarl’s Wood. In addition, we have discussed with Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons how he might provide further independent assurance. This Government have a proud record of working to protect vulnerable people in detention. We have reviewed the Mental Health Act 1983 and set out proposals for legislative change as a result; held a summit on policing and mental health, highlighting in particular the concerns of black and ethnic minority people; and commissioned Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary to undertake a review of vulnerable people in police custody that will be published shortly. Before these allegations were made, the Home Secretary commissioned Stephen Shaw, the former prisons and probation ombudsman for England and Wales, to lead an independent review of welfare in the whole immigration detention estate. We will of course invite him to consider these allegations as part of that overarching review. This country has a long tradition of tolerance and respect for human rights. Detaining those with no right to remain here and who refuse to leave voluntarily is key to maintaining an effective immigration system. But we are clear that all detainees must be treated with dignity and respect. We will accept nothing but the highest standards from those to whom we entrust the responsibility of their care.
2015-03-03b.824.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Keith Vaz	I thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting the urgent question and the Minister for her answer and her explanation of why the Minister for Security and Immigration is not here today. I am very pleased to see the two local MPs, the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) and the hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) . Channel 4’s film on Yarl’s Wood, shown last night, revealed shocking footage about the detention centre, which has been under heavy criticism for the treatment of its 400 detainees since 2001. What was uncovered was deeply disturbing. Serious questions were raised over standards of health care in Yarl’s Wood. What was detailed included examples of self-harm by detainees, including three women who jumped from the stairs and people slashing their wrists in an attempt not to be removed. It took a freedom of information request to reveal that there were 74 separate incidents of self-harm needing medical treatment at the centre in 2013. Guards who appeared in the footage merely dismissed information about people harming themselves as “attention seeking”. Will the Minister explain why her ministerial colleague, Lord Bates, told Parliament on 24 February that there had been no serious incidents of self-harm taking place in the past two years? Arguably the most concerning element was the contempt that was shown for detainees through the use of racist, sexist and generally abusive and degrading language. We saw a guard advocating violence towards a person who was detained there. One guard said: “Headbutt the bitch…I’d beat her up.” Another was recorded as saying: “They’re animals. They’re beasties. They’re all animals. Caged animals. Take a stick with you and beat them up.” These are appalling statements that should never be tolerated by anybody, particularly from employees of a company in receipt of millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money. Yarl’s Wood is not a prison but an immigration centre that has a duty to protect some of the most vulnerable, who are in most cases escaping violence and instability in their countries of origin in search of a better life. Frankly, some are there because the Home Office has taken such a long time to deal with their cases. Instead of being protected, detainees are verbally abused and poorly treated. This is not the first time that Yarl’s Wood has been the subject of parliamentary criticism. The Home Affairs Committee has been highly critical of the centre’s performance following damning reports of sexual misconduct and excessively long detentions. Of course I welcome the suspension of one of the people involved, and the fact that an independent inquiry is to be established, but the Minister is absolutely right that more needs to be done. We need a timetable for that inquiry. Will she send in her inspectors not just to visit but to write a report having spoken to detainees? Has the Minister spoken to Rupert Soames, the chief executive of Serco, to express the Government’s concern? Serco’s right to bid for other contracts should be suspended pending any review. Despite reports of catastrophic failings in November last year, Serco was awarded an eight-year, £70 million contract at Yarl’s Wood. Will the Minister look at her procurement processes? All of Serco’s contracts should be reviewed immediately. The Select Committee has recommended in the past that those who fail the taxpayer should be put on a register and should not be given any other contracts. Only a few months ago, the Lord Chancellor sent in the Serious Fraud Office in order to discover why Serco had overcharged the taxpayer by £70 million. I agree with the Minister that this treatment is inhumane. The United Kingdom has a reputation as a world leader in human rights—that is clear from the number of people who risk their lives to come here—and we simply cannot allow this behaviour to continue in a centre that has a duty to protect them.
2015-03-03b.825.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	I thank the right hon. Gentleman, the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee, for all that he and his Committee have done over many years to highlight problems in immigration detention centres. In 2009, his Committee reported specifically on UK Border Agency immigration detention centres, and this Government legislated to implement its recommendations. The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. We are all shocked and appalled by the evidence we have seen, and action must be taken. Hon. Members should be under no illusions: this Government are breathing down the neck of Serco, and we want to see action swiftly. The right hon. Gentleman said that one person has been suspended. In fact, one person was suspended before the broadcast. We were unable to see the programme before it was broadcast, but on the basis of evidence available before the broadcast, one person was suspended. Another has since been suspended, and I know that Serco will shortly look at whether to suspend others. The right hon. Gentleman referred to a comment about self-harm by my colleague the noble Lord Bates in the other place. In fact, Lord Bates said that there were no cases of suicide or attempted suicide in Yarl’s Wood, and that is correct. There is evidence of self-harm, which we take extremely seriously, but there have been no suicides or attempted suicides. The right hon. Gentleman said that the language and behaviour of the staff is completely and totally inappropriate. Hon. Members should be in no doubt that this Government and this House take that very seriously. The message to Serco is that this needs to be sorted out and needs to be sorted out quickly.
2015-03-03b.826.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Alistair Burt	I spoke this morning to the chair of the independent monitoring board at Yarl’s Wood, and she is shocked and horrified about what was shown on television last night. There is no justification for what we saw, and the action taken by the Government and Serco is quite right. What bothers me is that we are here again: this is not new. I am also bothered by the disparity. The Minister was quite right to refer to a series of reports from the chief inspector of prisons, Nick Hardwick, whom we all know, and to the report of Mary Coussey of the independent monitoring board, but those reports are at odds and at variance with such individual incidents. These incidents keep happening, and I do not know who is missing what. As the review takes place, as it must, I urge the Minister to look at this point in particular. Over a period of time, I have pleaded with the Government to allow proper journalistic access to and transparency in Yarl’s Wood—if the press cannot get in one way, they will get in another. There is also the refusal to allow the UN rapporteur the opportunity to go in. The regime in Yarl’s Wood is completely different from the one originally set up by the previous Government. I have seen it change over many years, but there is no way to convince people of that unless they can get in. As well as dealing with this incident, will she look at the disparity between the reports and such incidents, because we should not have to meet in the Chamber and discuss this again in future?
2015-03-03b.826.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for all his work, as the local constituency MP for Yarl’s Wood, in highlighting problems in the past. I am sure he agrees that to have a fair immigration system, there comes a point at which some form of detention is needed for people who refuse to leave the country voluntarily, but they must be detained with dignity and fairness to ensure that they are treated with respect. My right hon. Friend will know that Stephen Shaw is carrying out a review of the whole immigration detention estate, and I look forward to that report. He will also know that the independent monitoring board has the keys to Yarl’s Wood: it can access Yarl’s Wood at any time. Knowing that, and given the review that is taking place, we will look at everything to make sure we have certainty and can be confident that detainees are treated with dignity.
2015-03-03b.826.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Lisa Nandy	The revelations on Channel 4 were shocking, but they were not at all new or even surprising for many of us who have worked with people in Yarl’s Wood over the years. It is eight years since I worked with a 13-year-old girl who attempted suicide in Yarl’s Wood and was taken to Bedford hospital, where she was shackled to her bed by prison guards. Since then, we have had numerous reports from charities and independent monitors about sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, self-harm and mental health problems left untreated. This is not just about isolated individuals. I would say to the Minister that a system run for profit and to targets leaves very little room for compassion or humanity. Although it is absolutely right that individuals are prosecuted and brought to justice for the shocking things that we saw on Channel 4 last night, it is about time that we got a grip on the system. Will she make sure that the review of detention includes the impacts of private sector, for-profit involvement in detention on some of the most vulnerable people in this country?
2015-03-03b.827.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	The hon. Lady talks about having worked in this area for many years, including things she saw eight years ago. I agree that things were wrong and that they need to improve. This Government are proud of the measures we have taken—for example, on stop-and-search and mental health in custody—and the review we have instigated from Stephen Shaw is the next step in a natural progression to ensuring we safeguard people while treating detainees with appropriate dignity. I do not think that the question is about whether that is done through the public sector or the private sector; the question is about how we make sure that people in detention are treated with the dignity that they should rightly have. We are all shocked by what we have seen, and we need to make sure that it is rectified.
2015-03-03b.827.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Sarah Teather	I have chaired a cross-party inquiry on the issue of immigration detention, and our report was published this morning. The panel’s concern is that if the response to the scandal at Yarl’s Wood focuses only on conditions, it is likely to tackle just symptoms, rather than the underlying causes. The Minister says that the question is about how people are treated in detention, but our question is why some of these people are in detention in the first place. Our evidence suggests that most of the problems arise because we detain too many people for far too long and inappropriately. Will the Minister commit the Government to responding in full to our inquiry? In particular, will she look at the international evidence we have presented, which suggests that there is a cheaper, more humane and more effective way of operating by making better use of community alternatives?
2015-03-03b.827.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	My hon. Friend has worked tirelessly and ceaselessly on this issue, and I pay tribute to her and her committee for the report. I have a copy of it, and I have to say that it is quite lengthy. I have not had a chance to get through all its points, but I assure her that I will look at it, and I will make sure that we respond to it. My hon. Friend talks about the fact that more people are detained. It is important to make it clear that we have taken measures so that when people arrive clandestinely in the UK, we can be certain who they are—their nationality and identity—and ensure that they pose no risk to the British public. I do not apologise for putting the safety and security of the British public first and foremost when someone arrives clandestinely by making sure that they are who they say they are, while treating them appropriately.
2015-03-03b.827.3	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Yvette Cooper	Women in Yarl’s Wood are detained on the instruction of the Home Office, and the Home Secretary is therefore responsible for ensuring that they are treated humanely. There is a history of problems at Yarl’s Wood going back many years, but we were told that it had been dealt with. Yet in September 2013, it was reported that women at Yarl’s Wood had been sexually assaulted by guards from Serco, which the Home Secretary had contracted to manage the centre. I called on her to set up an independent inquiry, but she did not. In March 2014, a woman died in Yarl’s Wood. I asked an urgent question in the House, and again called on the Home Secretary to set up an independent inquiry. She would not come to the House, and she did not set up an inquiry. In May, more allegations came out, including that another vulnerable woman was sexually assaulted, and that a woman who poured boiling water over herself was left for hours in a state of shock. I called on the Home Secretary to set up a proper independent inquiry, and I again called on her to do so at the end of last year. The Home Secretary has repeatedly refused to establish an independent inquiry, refused to investigate allegations of rape and sexual abuse, refused to let even the UN rapporteur visit and refused to come to this House to answer for it. Instead, in November, the Home Secretary renewed Serco’s contract. She gave the company whose guards stand accused of abuse a contract for another eight years. We called on her to have an inquiry before she renewed the contract and she refused. Last month, she said that she would review the policies and procedures in detention centres. Again, that should have been done before the contract was renewed. Here we are again with even more serious allegations. A pregnant woman was left to have a miscarriage without getting all the medical support she needed. Guards are calling women “animals”, with one saying, “Take a stick with you and beat them up.” Those are the Serco guards to whom the Home Secretary gave the contract just a few months ago. There is no point in Ministers pretending to be shocked at the news of abuse—it is not news. Even now, Ministers have not set up an independent inquiry; Serco has. We are leaving it to the company to set up the independent inquiry that should have been set up by the Home Office. The Home Secretary should have come to the House today to answer this question. What has been happening is an utter disgrace, as is the continued failure to look into it. The Minister has been sent out to defend the indefensible. She should go back and tell the Home Secretary to take some responsibility for a change, to stop pregnant women and victims of sexual violence being held in Yarl’s Wood, and to hold a proper independent inquiry, because this is state-sanctioned abuse of women on the Home Secretary’s watch and it needs to end now.
2015-03-03b.828.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	It is very disappointing that the right hon. Lady comes to this House, not having called for the urgent question, and makes comments about the Home Secretary not being here. She knows that the Home Secretary is at No. 10 at the moment dealing with child abuse—something that we all agree is an incredibly important, urgent matter that needs to be dealt with. It is also disappointing that the right hon. Lady talks about abuses at Yarl’s Wood. Let us remember what the report on the announced inspection of Yarl’s Wood immigration removal centre in 2008 said. Let us remember who was in government at that time. The report stated: “we were dismayed to find cases of disabled children being detained and some children spending large amounts of time incarcerated.” It said: “Escort vehicles with caged compartments were inappropriately used to transport children.” It is this Government who have legislated to end the detention of children for immigration purposes. In 2008, just 68% of detainees said that most staff treated them with respect. The figure is now 84%. The report said: “Not enough was done to communicate with detainees who spoke little English”. It said: “Women complained about the food. Healthcare needed further improvement, particularly to address mental health and child health needs.” That was the report in 2008 under the right hon. Lady’s Government. It is this Government who have looked to ensure that those things are dealt with. We have set up the review. We have set up the review into the whole immigration detention estate that is being led by Stephen Shaw. I am confident that he will uncover the abuse. The right hon. Lady asked about the renewal of Serco’s contract. Let us remember what the policy is. The rules that determine the renewal of contracts were drawn up by Parliament in 2001. That is a rigorous and robust process, and it was set up by her Government. We will take no lessons on this matter from the Labour party. We have a proud record and we will root out the abuse.
2015-03-03b.829.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Richard Fuller	The individual employees at Yarl’s Wood let down their colleagues, their company and their country with their vile comments, which were exposed on Channel 4. However, the issue is not just individual people; it is the policy of the overuse of detention in managing immigration. That policy was introduced by the last Labour Government and has been continued by the coalition Government. When will the two Front Benches wake up and smell the coffee? Immigration detention is costly, ineffective and unjust. It costs millions of pounds a year. Some 70% of people who go into immigration detention go back into the community. These experiences in Yarl’s Wood are a stain on the conscience of this country.
2015-03-03b.829.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	I thank my hon. Friend for his question and for the work that he has done as the constituency Member of Parliament for Yarl’s Wood. He is right that the individuals in question have let down many people. He is also right that it is not just about the individuals. We need to get to the bottom of what is going on there and to understand it exactly. The measures that we have insisted that Serco undertake urgently, including the use of body-worn cameras by all staff, will make a difference by exposing where there is abuse. My hon. Friend talked about people being in detention for too long. I agree that people have been kept in detention for too long. That has happened because the previous Government’s immigration system allowed up to 17 appeals. The Immigration Act 2014, which we brought in, brings that number down to four. I hope that we will see a difference in the length of time people spend in detention. It is not something that any of us want to see, but it is a necessary evil if we are to have a fair, robust immigration system.
2015-03-03b.830.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Barry Sheerman	I am disappointed that the Minister is reacting in the way that she is. This is a very important issue. It is a stain on our country’s reputation for human rights. Does she agree that we all have to learn from the tradition of using these big, monopolistic companies? G4S let us down at the Olympics, Serco is involved in this case, Capita was involved in the tagging of individuals and now the Government are putting our probation service out to one of these companies. When will we learn that these companies have poor management, the wrong ethic, the wrong culture and the wrong priorities? It is about time we changed all that.
2015-03-03b.830.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	I think it was the previous Government who used private contracts. Private companies are not necessarily bad; they just have to be properly managed.
2015-03-03b.830.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Julian Huppert	Yarl’s Wood has been a disgrace for well over a decade. It was a disgrace under the last Government and it is a disgrace under this Government. When children were detained there, they were left at serious risk of harm. We now have adults being left at serious risk of harm. That is completely unacceptable. Yes, the individual employees were at fault; yes, the company is at fault, but changing that will not fix the system. Getting in a new company, a new organisation and new employees will not solve the problem. What we have to do, as is suggested in the report by the panel that was chaired so well by my hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather) , is to completely rethink the system. No other country in Europe has indefinite detention and holds people for years on end. I hope that the Minister will look at that again. I hope that the Minister and the shadow Secretary of State will look at the report and change their policy.
2015-03-03b.830.3	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	My hon. Friend referred to children being treated badly in Yarl’s Wood. He will know that this Government have taken action and stopped that. I will look at the report, as I have said. I look forward to seeing what suggestions have been made. It is worth repeating that we have reduced from 17 to four the number of appeals a detainee can make against their removal. It is also worth saying that 63% of detainees are released within 28 days. We need to get that percentage up, but we also need to ensure that the system is fair for those who play by the rules.
2015-03-03b.830.4	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Kate Green	I have been sickened by and ashamed at the reports about the treatment of detainees at Yarl’s Wood that we have seen this week and on so many previous occasions. I am also ashamed of some of the partisan comments that have been made in the discussion this afternoon. They are of absolutely no interest to the women I have met who have spent time in Yarl’s Wood and who have emerged incredibly distressed. I ask that we all think about the tone in which we conduct this discussion. May I ask the Minister a specific question about the investigations and reviews that are taking place? In the past, there have been reports that women who have evidence to give or victims of abuse have been deported before their cases could be properly investigated. What assurances will she give that that will not happen, that all the evidence will be gathered in, and that those who have a story to tell will be heard and will remain in this country to tell it?
2015-03-03b.831.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	The hon. Lady is right to say that this is about the people—I absolutely agree with her about that. It is the victims of abuse that we really need to think about and put at the forefront of what we are doing. She will know that, through the Modern Slavery Bill, we are introducing new protections for victims of trafficking, including those who come to light in detention. I heard a horrific story recently about somebody who had been treated as a victim of domestic abuse, but it was only when her immigration status began to be questioned and she ended up in an immigration detention centre that she came forward and said that she was a victim of trafficking as well. It is absolutely paramount that front-line staff receive training to make sure that they can identify those victims so that we can get them into the national referral mechanism, give them the support they need and catch the evil perpetrators of those crimes. I totally agree with the hon. Lady that that must be at the forefront of what we are doing.
2015-03-03b.831.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Andrew Stephenson	Detention is part of the immigration system, but we must ensure that all detainees are treated in a safe and dignified manner. On Sunday, I met a local family who are very concerned that a family member with mental health issues will shortly be detained before being deported. Although I appreciate that the Minister cannot comment on individual cases, will she say more about what is being done to ensure that those with mental health issues are safely detained if they need to be detained?
2015-03-03b.831.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	As my hon. Friend says, I cannot comment on the specifics of that case, but it clearly sounds like a heart-rending situation. We have taken action to make sure that those suffering from mental health conditions are not detained in police custody, and we are taking steps to ensure that they are not detained in immigration detention.
2015-03-03b.831.3	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Fiona Mactaggart	The Minister has said that about two thirds of the women in Yarl’s Wood are there for more than a month. Overwhelmingly, these are people who have not been convicted, or even accused, of any crime, but who are put in administrative detention for extended periods. What is the Minister doing to make sure that they have the high-quality legal advice and representation they require to make sure that their case is properly heard before she organises their removal?
2015-03-03b.831.4	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	To correct the hon. Lady, she said that two thirds are held for more than a month, but 63% are discharged within 28 days and either removed or released. The issue with the length of time for which people are detained is that the system that we inherited had too many layers, too many procedures and too many appeals, which meant that we could not get to the bottom of whether somebody was right to claim asylum or whether they should be returned to their home. By reducing the number of appeals to four, I hope we will see a shorter time period.
2015-03-03b.832.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	John Leech	The managing director of Serco’s home affairs business has said that an independent review was required because the “public will want to be confident that Yarl’s Wood is doing its difficult task with professionalism, care and humanity”. Given the catalogue of shame and controversy over many years, is it not the case that the only way to regain public confidence is to strip Serco of its responsibility for running Yarl’s Wood?
2015-03-03b.832.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	I do not think that the answer is to strip Serco of its responsibility; the answer is to make sure that we get to the bottom of what has happened. My hon. Friend is right to say that any form of abuse is an embarrassment. We need the public not just to see that there are no problems, but to believe that there are no problems. We need them to be happy that detainees are being treated in an appropriate and acceptable way. We are holding Serco’s feet to the fire: I want to see action, we are making sure that it takes action, and we will take action against it if we need to.
2015-03-03b.832.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Debbie Abrahams	In her opening remarks, the Minister said that a recent inspection had found Yarl’s Wood to be safe. Clearly, it is not. Could she explain the discrepancy between the reality and the inspection report, and what is she doing about it?
2015-03-03b.832.3	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	As I said in my opening comments, there have been a number of inspections of Yarl’s Wood by Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons and the independent monitoring board, which, as I have said, has the keys to Yarl’s Wood and can go in any time it wants. We have found no evidence that anybody is at risk. However, the allegations made in last night’s programme are very serious and we need to get to the bottom of them and take action.
2015-03-03b.832.4	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Bridget Phillipson	The recent footage was disturbing, but, unfortunately, allegations of sexual abuse of vulnerable women and abuse at the centre are not new. Given the apparent gulf between official reports, what the Minister has said today and life at Yarl’s Wood, and given that we have seen so many repeated failures over such a long period of time and the reluctance of Ministers to act so far, can we be confident that change will really happen?
2015-03-03b.832.5	ROYAL ASSENT	Yarl’s Wood	Karen Bradley	It is not fair to say that Ministers have been reluctant to take action—we have taken significant action. This urgent question follows an urgent question about Oxfordshire county council, and a summit on child sexual abuse is taking place at Downing street today. There needs to be a sea change in how all people in authority and all bodies treat allegations and victims. We all have a responsibility to take this seriously.
2015-03-03b.833.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the independent investigation into the care of mothers and babies at the University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay NHS Foundation Trust, which is being published today. I commissioned this report in September 2013 because I believed there were vital issues that needed to be addressed following serious incidents in maternity services provided by the trust dating back to 2004. There is no greater pain for a parent than to lose a child, and to do so knowing it was because of mistakes that we now know were covered up makes the agony even worse. Nothing we say or do today can take away that pain, but we can at least provide the answers to the families’ questions about what happened and why, and in doing so try to prevent a similar tragedy in the future. We can do something else, too, which should have happened much earlier—and that is, on behalf of the Government and the NHS, to apologise to every family who have suffered as a result of these terrible failures. The courage of those families in constantly reliving their sadness in a long and bitter search for the truth means that lessons will now be learned so that other families do not have to go through the same nightmare. We pay tribute to those brave families today. I would especially like to thank Dr Bill Kirkup and his expert panel members. This will have been a particularly difficult report to research and write, but the thoroughness and fairness of their analysis will allow us to move forward with practical actions to improve safety, not just at Morecambe Bay, but across the NHS. I know that before we discuss the report in detail the whole House will want to recognise that what we hear today is not typical of NHS maternity services as a whole, where 97% of new mothers report the highest levels of satisfaction. Our dedicated midwives, nurses, obstetricians and paediatricians work extremely long hours providing excellent care in the vast majority of cases. Today’s report is no reflection on their dedication and commitment, but we owe it to all of them to get to the bottom of what happened so we can make sure it never happens again. The report found 20 instances of significant or major failings of care at Furness general hospital, associated with three maternal deaths and the deaths of 16 babies. It concludes that different clinical care would have been expected to prevent the death of one mother and 11 babies. The report describes major failures at almost every level. There were mistakes by midwives and doctors, a failure to investigate and learn from those mistakes and repeated failures to be honest with patients and families, including the possible destruction of medical notes. The report says that the dysfunctional nature of the maternity unit should have become obvious in early 2009, but regulatory bodies including the North West strategic health authority, the primary care trusts, the Care Quality Commission, Monitor and the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman failed to work together and missed numerous opportunities to address the issue. The result was not just the tragedy of lives lost, but indescribable anguish for the families left behind. James Titcombe speaks of being haunted by “feelings of personal guilt” about his nine-day-old son who died. “If only”, he says, “I had done more to help Joshua when he still had a chance”. Carl Hendrickson, who worked at the hospital and lost his wife and baby son, told me that he was asked to work in the same unit where they had died and even with the same equipment that had been connected to his late wife. Simon Davey and Liza Brady told me that the doctor who might have saved their son Alex was shooed away by a midwife, with no one taking responsibility when he was tragically born dead. In short, it was a second Mid Staffs, where the problems—albeit on a smaller scale—occurred largely over the same period. In both cases perceived pressure to achieve foundation trust status led to poor care being ignored and patient safety being compromised, and in both cases the regulatory system failed to address the problems quickly. In both cases families faced delay, denial and obfuscation in their search for the truth, which in this case meant that at least nine significant opportunities to intervene and save lives were missed. To those who have maintained that Mid Staffs was a one-off “local failure”, today’s report will give serious cause for reflection. As a result of the new inspection regime introduced by this Government, the trust was put into special measures in June 2014. The report acknowledges improvements made since then, which include more doctors and nurses, better record keeping and incident reporting, and action to stabilise and improve maternity services, including a major programme of work to reduce stillbirths. The trust will be re-inspected this summer when an independent decision will be made about whether to remove it from special measures. Patients who use the trust will be encouraged that the report says it “now has the capability to recover and that the regulatory framework has the capacity to ensure that it happens”. The whole House will want to support front-line staff in their commitment and dedication during this difficult period. More broadly, the report points to important improvements to the regulatory framework, particularly at the Care Quality Commission which it says is now “capable of effectively carrying out its role as principal quality regulator for the first time…central to this has been the introduction of a new inspection regime under a new Chief Inspector of Hospitals”. As a result of that regime, which is recognised as the toughest and most transparent in the world, 20 hospitals—more than 10% of all NHS acute trusts—have so far been put into special measures. Most have seen encouraging signs of progress, with documented falls in mortality rates. There remain many areas where improvements in practice and culture are still needed. Dr Kirkup makes 44 recommendations—18 for the trust to address directly, and 26 for the wider system. The Government received the report yesterday and will examine the excellent recommendations in detail before providing a full response to the House. There are, however, some actions that I intend to implement immediately. First, the NHS is still much too slow at investigating serious incidents involving severe harm or death. The Francis inquiry was published nine years after the first problems at Mid Staffs, and today’s report is being published 11 years after the first tragedy at Furness general hospital. The report recommends much clearer guidelines for standardised incident reporting, which I am today asking Dr Mike Durkin, director of patient safety at NHS England, to draw up and publish. I also believe that the NHS could benefit from a service similar to the air accidents investigation branch of the Department for Transport. Serious medical incidents should continue to be investigated and carried out locally, but where trusts feel that they would benefit from an expert independent national team to establish facts rapidly on a no-blame basis, they should be able to do so. Dr Durkin will therefore look at the possibility of setting up such a service for the NHS. Secondly, although we have made good progress in encouraging a culture of openness and transparency in the NHS, the report makes clear that there is a long way to go. It seems that medical notes were destroyed and mistakes covered up at Morecambe Bay, quite possibly because of a defensive culture where the individuals involved thought that they would lose their jobs if they were discovered to have been responsible for a death. Within sensible professional boundaries, however, no one should lose their job for an honest mistake made with the best of intentions; the only cardinal offence is not to report that mistake openly so that the correct lessons can be learned. Recent recommendations from Sir Robert Francis on creating an open and honest reporting culture in the NHS will begin to improve that, and I have today asked Professor Sir Bruce Keogh, medical director of NHS England, to review the professional codes of both doctors and nurses, and to ensure that the right incentives are in place to prevent people from covering up instead of reporting and learning from mistakes. Sir Bruce led the seminal Keogh inquiry into hospitals with high death rates two years ago that led to a lasting improvement in hospital safety standards and has long championed openness and transparency in health care. For this vital work he will lead a team that will include the Professional Standards Authority for Health and Social Care, the General Medical Council, the Nursing and Midwifery Council, and Health Education England, and he will report back to the Health Secretary later this year. The report also exposed systemic issues about the quality of midwifery supervision. While the investigation was under way, the King’s Fund conducted a review of midwifery regulation for the NMC, which recommended that effective local supervision needs to be carried out by individuals wholly independent from the trust they are supervising. The Government will work closely with stakeholders to agree a more effective oversight arrangement, and will legislate accordingly. I have asked for proposals on the new system by the end of July this year. For too long the NMC had the wrong culture and was too slow to take action, but I am encouraged that it has recently made improvements. Today it has apologised to the families affected by events at Morecambe Bay, and it is investigating the fitness to practise of seven midwives who worked at the trust during that time. It will now forensically go through any further evidence gathered by the investigation, to ensure that any wrongdoing or malpractice is investigated. Anyone who is found to have practised unsafely or who covered up mistakes will be held to account, which for the most serious offences includes being struck off. The NMC also has the power to pass information to the police if it feels that a criminal offence may have been committed, and it will not hesitate to do so if its investigations find evidence to warrant that. The Government remain committed to legislation for further reform of the NMC at the earliest opportunity. The report expresses a “degree of disquiet” over the initial decision of the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman not to investigate the death of Joshua Titcombe. I know the Public Administration Committee is already considering these issues, and will want to reflect carefully on the report as it considers improvements that can be made as part of its current inquiry. Finally, I expect the trust to implement all 18 of the recommendations assigned to it in the report. I have asked Monitor to ensure that that happens within the designated time scale, as I want to give maximum reassurance to patients and families who are using the hospital that no time is being wasted in learning necessary lessons. We should recognise that despite many challenges, NHS staff have made excellent progress recently in improving the quality of care, with the highest ever ratings from the public for safety and compassionate care. The tragedy we hear about today must strengthen our resolve to deliver real and lasting culture change so that these mistakes are never repeated. That is the most important commitment we can make to the memory of the 19 mothers and babies who lost their lives at Morecambe Bay, including those named in today’s report: Elleanor Bennett, Joshua Titcombe, Alex Brady-Davey, Nittaya Hendrickson and Chester Hendrickson. This statement is their legacy, and I commend it to the House.
2015-03-03b.836.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Andy Burnham	I thank the Secretary of State for his well-judged statement, and echo entirely the sentiments he expressed. Families in Barrow and the wider Cumbria area were badly let down by their local hospital and by the NHS as a whole. The Secretary of State was right to apologise to them on behalf of the Government and the NHS, and today I do the same on behalf of the previous Government. It is hard to imagine what it must be like to lose a child or partner in such circumstances, but to have that suffering intensified by the actions of the NHS is inexcusable. Bereaved families should never again have to fight in the way that these families have had to fight to get answers. The fact that they have found the strength and courage to do so will benefit others in years to come, and I pay tribute to them all, and particularly to James Titcombe. This report finally gives the families the answers that they should have received many years ago. It explains in detail what went wrong, the appalling scale of the failings and, as the Secretary of State said, the opportunities missed to identify those failings and put them right. I echo the Secretary of State’s praise for Dr Bill Kirkup, his investigation team and the panel that assisted them. The report’s analysis is thorough, and its recommendations are powerful but proportionate. The Opposition support all the recommendations made today. I understand that the Secretary of State will want to take time to consider each individually, but he can rely on our full support in introducing them at the earliest opportunity. People’s first concern will be whether local services are safe today. The report identifies the root cause of the failures as a dysfunctional local culture and a failure to follow national clinical guidance. There are suggestions in the report that that culture has not entirely disappeared. The report finds: “we…heard from some of the long-standing clinicians that relations with midwives had not improved and had possibly deteriorated over the last two to three years…we saw and heard evidence that untoward incidents with worryingly similar features to those seen previously had occurred as recently as mid-2014.” I am sure the fact that problems have been acknowledged means that there has already been significant improvement, but will the Secretary of State say more about those findings, and about what steps he is taking to ensure that the trust now has the right staff and safety culture? After safety, people will rightly want accountability, as the Secretary of State said, not just for the care failings, but for the fact that the problem was kept hidden from the regulators and the public for so long. When information came to light, it was not acted on. Lessons were not learned, and problems were not corrected. The investigation recommends that the trust formally apologises to those affected. The whole House will endorse that call, and will want it done both appropriately and immediately. Further, will the Secretary of State ensure that any further referrals to the GMC and NMC are made without delay? Will he also ensure that any managerial or administrative staff found guilty of wrongdoing are subject to appropriate action? A number of staff have left the trust in recent years, many with pay-offs. Will he review those decisions in the light of the report and take whatever steps he can to ensure that those who have failed are not rewarded? One of the central findings of the investigation is on the challenges faced by geographically remote and isolated communities in providing health services. The investigation warns of the risks of a closed clinical culture in which “practice can ‘drift’ away from standards and procedures found elsewhere”. Is not the report right to recommend a national review of maternity care and paediatrics in rural and isolated areas, and will the Secretary of State take that forward? Alongside that, there are concerns about the sustainability of the Cumbrian health economy. My hon. Friend the Member for Copeland (Mr Reed) has today written to the chief executive of NHS England to call for a review of the specific challenges it faces. I hope the Secretary of State will be sympathetic to that call. On the CQC, the role of the regulator has always been to oppose poor care and challenge practice, but it is clear that it failed in its duty in this case. Given what was known, the decision to register the trust without conditions in April 2010 was inexplicable, as was the decision to award foundation trust status later in 2010, as was the decision to inspect emergency care pathways but not maternity services—in so doing, it failed to act on specific warnings. As the report states, there was and remains confusion in the system over who has overall responsibility for monitoring standards, with overlapping regulatory responsibilities. The Opposition support moves to make the CQC more independent, but does the Secretary of State agree that the journey of improvement at the regulator needs to continue, and that there is a need for further reform? Will he ensure that NHS England draws up the recommended protocol on the roles and responsibilities for all parts of the oversight system without delay, and does he agree that the CQC should take prime responsibility? I want to close by focusing on two proposals that I believe get to the heart of the matter before us. I have thought carefully about how we truly do justice to the families’ campaign and learn the lessons of both this investigation and the Francis report. In my view, the answer is a much more rigorous system of the review of all deaths in the community and in hospitals than currently exists. First, is the reform of death certification and the introduction a new system of independent medical examination well overdue? The Kirkup report echoes findings that go back as far as Dame Janet Smith’s inquiry into the Shipman murders, which were repeated recently by Sir Robert Francis in his two reports on Mid Staffordshire. The previous Government legislated for those reforms and made provision for the independent scrutiny by a medical examiner of all deaths that are not referred to a coroner. That has been piloted and proven to be effective. The investigation says that those reforms could have raised concerns at Morecambe Bay before they eventually became evident. The second point is that we need a better system for scrutinising deaths in hospital. The report recommends mandatory reporting and investigation of serious incidents of all maternal deaths, stillbirths and unexpected neonatal deaths. Is there not a case to go further, including by looking at moving to a mandatory review of case notes for every death in hospital, and at how we can use a standardised system of case note review to support learning and improvement at every trust? To help to guide the Opposition’s new approach to quality improvement, Professor Nick Black has agreed to advise us and inform the review, which will be concluded by the end of the month. In our view, that reform is much needed, because rather than looking at a sample of deaths to avoid harm, we would look at every single death to learn lessons, which means that every single person matters. Ideally, the review should be cross-party. I hope the Secretary of State feels able to endorse the review I have announced, which will make recommendations that the next Government can act on immediately. Is that not the best way to do justice to the issues that the families have fought to raise, and to ensure that the legacy of their campaign is to ensure that no others go through what they have gone through?
2015-03-03b.838.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his measured tone. I am sure he is absolutely sincere in wanting to learn from this tragedy. I thank him for his moving words and for his apology. He will understand that there is nervousness among the families because, in the past, when the Government have talked about rooting out poor care, we have been accused of running down the NHS. We have had a different tone today, and I welcome it. To answer the right hon. Gentleman’s specific points on the quality of care at the hospital currently, the best person and people to make that judgment are the new CQC and chief inspector of hospitals, Professor Sir Mike Richards. He has said that, in his view, the care at the maternity unity in Furness general hospital is good, and indeed safe—it is more than safe; it is good. That should reassure many people who are using the hospital. He is also very clear that there are many, many improvements to make, and his overall rating for the trust is not good. The report highlights many areas that still need to be addressed, but it is important to give that reassurance. On death certification, I assure the right hon. Gentleman that we fully support that policy. As he knows, it was recommended in January 2005, so it has taken a long time for both Governments to address. We fully support the policy and have had successful trials. We are committed to introducing it as soon as possible and we want to go further. There may be some common ground, because we, too, have been talking to Professor Nick Black about case note reviews. The latest advice I have had is that it would be technically very difficult to review the case notes of all the 250,000 deaths every year in NHS hospitals, because of the resource implications and the doctors’ time it would take. I asked whether it would be possible to do that. I was advised that, if we looked at case notes hospital by hospital, there would be a risk of trusts getting into big disputes about whether or not a death was avoidable. I asked Professor Black to help me to devise a methodology so that we can assess the level of avoidable deaths by hospital trust. We would be the first health economy in the world to do that. I hope we will have his full support as we take that forward. On the decision to give the trust foundation trust status, the report makes it clear that Ministers were advised that they had no locus to intervene, because the process had already been set in train—because the decision had been deferred but not stopped, they were not able to intervene. It is clear that the level of knowledge in the Department of Health, as in the rest of the system, was wholly inadequate given what was happening in that hospital. I should like to make one other point, on a comment made by Labour this morning that the report would say that the failings were very localised. In fact, the report says the opposite. I want to read what Dr Kirkup says in the introduction to the report: “It is vital that the lessons, now plain to see, are learnt and acted upon, not least by other Trusts, which must not believe that ‘it could not happen here’.” It is important that we take that lesson from the report extremely seriously. I would like to finish on a note of consensus. I appreciate that it is not always easy for Oppositions to support the Government publicly as they put right policy mistakes that they have inherited, but I think there is one thing where we can make common ground: the need for culture change in the NHS. Policies can be changed over one Parliament, but culture change takes a generation. What the families who have suffered so much want to know more than anything else is that Members on all sides of the House are committed to that, so that we never again go back to the closed ranks and institutional self-defence that piled agony on to their tragedies, and that, once and for all, we all make the commitment that patients will always come first.
2015-03-03b.840.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Eric Ollerenshaw	As a Member of Parliament for an area covered by the trust, I assure the Secretary of State that many thousands of workers in the NHS in my area do a really good job in very difficult geographical circumstances. I was newly elected to Parliament in 2010. My experience, alongside that of colleagues whom I see in the House, as a constituency MP dealing with the huge institution that is the NHS has been that it is difficult to find out who is responsible, where and for what. Like everybody else, my heart goes out to the parents. I do not know how they have struggled on, with their loss and with being confronted with what almost seems like a professional or administrative closing of ranks and doors to their pleas for some information on what happened. It is just unbelievable. My constituents do not understand why—this is mentioned in the report—a major incident in 2004 was not looked at. There were five more major incidents in 2006-07 and another five in 2008, yet still nothing was done. What will the Secretary of State do to reassure my constituents that when a major incident happens again—as presumably it could in any NHS hospital across the country—it will be acted on?
2015-03-03b.840.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	I am happy to do that. In fact, I can not only tell my hon. Friend what we are going to do, I can tell him what we have done. The main purpose of the new CQC inspection regime, with a chief inspector of hospitals and a special measures regime, is to make sure that these issues come to light much more quickly. The new regime has been very active: 20 trusts—more than 10% of all trusts in the NHS—have gone into special measures. We have seen dramatic improvements. I would like to make a broader point to my hon. Friend’s constituents. He speaks very wisely when he says that this is not about the dedication and commitment of front-line staff. He is absolutely right. The Royal Lancaster infirmary is not the main focus of the Kirkup report, but of course as part of the same trust it suffered from the same management failings. There are Members of this House who have had problems at the Royal Lancaster infirmary and found that they were not listened to when they made complaints, because proper management was not in place. That will have affected his constituents. I hope they will take encouragement from the changes that have happened recently in that regard.
2015-03-03b.840.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	John Woodcock	I thank the Secretary of State for the dignified and fitting way in which he was able to name some of the grieving parents and the babies they lost. We cannot escape the painful conclusion from the report that our hospital was compromised by some shocking failures in care and a deeply inappropriate defensiveness from certain individuals. Does he agree that the scale of failure laid out in the report may well serve to reopen the criminal investigation? Will he support the healing process that is now needed in our community, with resources if necessary, so that we can move on from this? Finally, will he set out a timetable by which he will look through all the recommendations and report back to the House on whether the Government will accept them? Will that be before the election?
2015-03-03b.841.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	I do not know the answer to the last question because we have received the report only very recently, but we will do this work as soon as possible. Indeed, if we have cross-party support, it may be that we can expedite the process. The hon. Gentleman worked very closely with James Titcombe and is absolutely right to talk about the seriousness of what happened. As with the Francis report, however, I would caution against the idea that this problem will be solved if a few more nurses are struck off. We need accountability—that is incredibly important—and where there is wrongdoing, people must be fully held to account. The big lesson is the lack of openness, transparency and trust. It is quite possible that the reason some people did not speak out about poor care is that they were frightened of the consequences of doing so. They thought they would not be listened to. Other industries, such as the nuclear industry in which James Titcombe worked or the airline industry, have managed to create a culture of trust where people on the front line who make mistakes feel able to speak out and be supported if they do so. That is the most important lesson we need to learn from today’s report.
2015-03-03b.841.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Tim Farron	I, too, want to the thank the Secretary of State and the shadow Secretary of State for their entirely appropriate contributions, both the statement and the response, on this immensely sensitive and deeply personally upsetting series of circumstances. I want especially to pay tribute to the families who lost loved ones as a result of what Dr Kirkup referred to as “serious failures of clinical care”. He refers to the report as a damning indictment. The dignity and determination of parents such as James Titcombe and Carl Hendrickson have led to this awful truth being laid bare today. Those parents are an inspiration to me, and they should be to all of us. I want to pick up on one point in particular that was raised during the Secretary of State’s statement. Dr Kirkup expresses disquiet that the NHS and the parliamentary ombudsman chose not even to investigate what has now been shown to be the needless deaths of at least 11 babies and at least one mother. May I press the Secretary of State to go further than he has in his statement and do everything in his power to ensure that the watchdog for patients is not a lapdog for senior managers? Patients need a powerful, effective independent investigator who listens to those who grieve, like the Morecambe Bay families, and not one who dismisses them without even an investigation.
2015-03-03b.841.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There were, clearly, very serious flaws in the way the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman operated, particularly in the case of Joshua Titcombe. My hon. Friend will know that the PHSO is accountable to this House through the Public Administration Committee, and not through the Government and the Department of Health. The Public Administration Committee is considering this issue in a great deal of detail to see what lessons need to be learned. I think one of the issues is the level of expertise within the PHSO and, with the greatest of respect, a certain lack of confidence in its ability to understand when there has been a clinical failure. I think everyone agrees that one of the things we need to do is to ensure that it can draw on medical expertise. It needs to make sure that its culture is as open and transparent as the culture it would like to see inside the NHS.
2015-03-03b.842.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Kevin Barron	The Secretary of State said that the fitness to practice of seven midwives is currently being considered by the National Midwifery Council. Given that this matter goes back over a decade, were any health professionals, either doctors or nurses, referred to their regulatory bodies during any of the incidents he outlined earlier?
2015-03-03b.842.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	I am not aware that they were. If that turns out to be the case, that would be extremely worrying. Since Dr Kirkup started his investigation, he has been in touch with the regulatory bodies throughout the process. He has not waited until today to refer back to them any names of people where he thinks there may be a concern.
2015-03-03b.842.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	David Morris	I thank my right hon. Friend for his deep and meaningful statement. In my constituency, the effects of what has happened in our trust have been deeply felt. I would also like to reach out to my hon. Friend outside the Chamber, the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) . We have to put everything behind us. In my constituency, there is a campaign which says that the hospital is closing. The staff and the new management are beside themselves on this particular issue. Does my right hon. Friend agree that this has now got to stop? Hospitals and A and Es were never going to close down. At the end of the day, the staff are the only people who are going to suffer in all this.
2015-03-03b.842.3	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	I think this is a time when the whole House needs to unite behind the staff in that trust, who are working very hard to turn the situation around; indeed, they have made great progress. I had to call Nicola Adam of The Visitor to reaffirm the point that there are absolutely no plans to close the hospital. I hope the whole House will recognise that statement for what it is and that hon. Members will reiterate it in all their communications with their constituents.
2015-03-03b.842.4	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Grahame Morris	I thank the Secretary of State and my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) for the tone of the statement and the Opposition’s response. I want to ask the Secretary of State about the point he made in his statement about the relationship between clinicians and midwives, which Dr Kirkup identified as having deteriorated over the last two or three years. He said that there was evidence of untoward incidents, with worryingly similar features to those that had previously occurred, as recently as last year. The Secretary of State mentioned extra numbers, but is he confident that the relationship between midwives and doctors is now resolved and that we have safe care at that particular hospital and elsewhere?
2015-03-03b.842.5	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	I think we can trust the CQC’s view that the care in the maternity unit is safe, but the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to draw attention to the issue of the barriers between doctors and midwives, which is striking. That goes back a very long time: there seemed to be a kind of macho culture among the midwives to do with not letting the doctors in, which probably led to babies needlessly dying, which is the great tragedy. Making sure that that culture is changed, so that the patient’s needs are always put first, is obviously a massive priority. I know that the trust has made great strides in that area, but we all understand too that it takes time to change culture, and we need to support it as it goes on that journey.
2015-03-03b.843.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Sarah Wollaston	I join the Secretary of State in paying tribute to James Titcombe and all the families who have fought so long for answers. I also thank Dr Kirkup for his excellent report. I welcome the action that the Secretary of State has announced today, but can he add to that list by saying whether we can bring forward having medical examiners to look into the cause of death before the end of this Parliament and, if not, say what the barriers to introducing that much overdue reform are? Will he also touch on recommendations 20 and 21 in the report, which refer to the need for a national review of maternity and paediatric services in areas that are remote, isolated and hard to recruit to? Indeed, the report goes further and says that the problem extends beyond those services. This is an issue we need to address to improve safety without deterring recruitment in these areas.
2015-03-03b.843.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	I am afraid I can only commit now to us introducing independent medical examiners as soon as possible. We are wholeheartedly committed to this. It is incredibly important for relatives, because where they have a concern about a death and possibly a mistake being made in someone’s care in their final hours, the availability of an independent examiner has been shown in the trials we have run to be very effective, so we are committed to doing that. I should have answered the shadow Health Secretary on the point about a review of maternity services, because he raised it as well. NHS England is doing that review; we have already announced that to this House. Today it is publishing the terms of reference of that review. That is important, because there has been a big debate inside the health service—a debate with which many people will be familiar—about what the minimum appropriate size for maternity and birthing units is, and we need to get to the bottom of the latest international evidence.
2015-03-03b.843.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Ann Clwyd	During the period when I was writing the report on complaints in hospitals, I met Mr Titcombe. I was impressed by his persistence, because persistence is what anyone who is trying to tackle a complaint needs. I understand what he means when he says he is haunted by personal grief: I think of all those parents and relatives who have waited all this time to try to get some answers to their questions. The length of time it takes to answer people’s complaints is still not satisfactory. I myself have waited over two years and three months and I still do not have answers—I know that is not in his bag, but it is generally true of the whole of the United Kingdom. I support what my right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State said in calling for the medical scrutiny of all deaths that are not referred to a coroner. That is an important point. I want to ask the Secretary of State again: will he ensure that achieving the highest standard of complaints handling is included in the next NHS mandate?
2015-03-03b.844.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	No one has done more than the right hon. Lady to try to improve the standard for complaints, with the excellent work she did with Professor Tricia Hart. We are in the process of implementing her recommendations, but as the right hon. Lady knows, with the fifth largest organisation in the world, it is one thing to make a commitment in this place, but another to make it happen on the ground. There is definitely much work to do. I also agree with the right hon. Lady’s comments about James Titcombe. This is a man who gave up his job working in the nuclear industry to come down to London and work in the CQC so that he could actively be part of the culture change that he wanted to see in the NHS. I do not think anyone could have done more than that. It is truly remarkable. As the right hon. Lady has mentioned Wales, let me say that we have put 20 trusts into special measures in England and it is inconceivable that there will not be trusts with similar problems in Wales. I urge her to encourage the Labour party in Wales to look at introducing a special measures regime and a chief inspector of hospitals in Wales, because that has had such a powerful effect on improving standards of care in England.
2015-03-03b.844.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Bernard Jenkin	I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement and Dr Bill Kirkup for his excellent report. Let me reassure him and the House that the Public Administration Select Committee is also preoccupied with the failings of the parliamentary and health service ombudsman in the conduct of these cases. I, too, have met James Titcombe on many occasions and have been extremely impressed by his extraordinary commitment to making sure that he is heard so that so many others can be heard. May I also point out that the report reeks of the confusion that exists between CQC and the PHSO about what their respective responsibilities are? If we are talking about accountability, what we need is an organisation that is accountable for investigating clinical incidents in the NHS, whether they are down to particular local problems or broader systemic problems—by which we mean not that that is an excuse for what goes wrong; rather, it is so those systemic problems can be put right. I therefore very much welcome what my right hon. Friend has mooted will be the task of Sir Mike Durkin: to look at how that capacity can be developed, in the same manner, perhaps, as the air accidents investigation branch of the Department for Transport.
2015-03-03b.844.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	Dr Mike Durkin will be delighted that he has been promoted and given a knighthood for his wonderful work on patient safety, but it has not happened yet, even though he certainly deserves it. I thank my hon. Friend for his understanding of the complexity of these issues and the importance of the need for culture change. The work of his Committee has not been to scratch around the surface; it has tried to think hard about the solution. He is absolutely right that we need to end regulatory confusion. We now have a strong CQC, which is doing incredible inspections and is trusted across the system. However, we need a system in which people can get independent external advice quickly, which is why he was right to alert me to the potential of an air accidents investigation branch equivalent. I hope that is something that could be helpful for the ombudsman as well.
2015-03-03b.845.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Liz McInnes	I am pleased that the Secretary of State has declared his intention to implement the medical examination review. The president of the Royal College of Pathologists, Dr Suzy Lishman, has said that introducing such a system would “improve patient care whilst reducing harm and saving money”. She went on: “If bereaved relatives get the answers that they need around the time of death, if all their questions are answered then, then they don’t feel the need to sue the NHS to get the answers they deserve.” She has also said that it is “incomprehensible” that the recommended changes have not been implemented. Will the Secretary of State explain why there has been so much delay? From his answer to a previous question, I understand that he is not able to commit to implementing the reforms during the time of this Government.
2015-03-03b.845.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay)	Jeremy Hunt	With the greatest respect, I say to the hon. Lady that if she is suggesting that we have done nothing on this important issue over the last few years, nothing could be further from the truth. We have been trialling the right system; we think the trials have worked; and we want to make sure that we implement this in a way that is consistent with the many other things we are doing to improve patient safety, including proper case-note reviews of deaths in order to understand the level of avoidable hospital deaths and what we can do to bring the rates down. This is a priority for the Government, and we remain wholly committed to it.
2015-03-03b.846.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Ebbsfleet	Brandon Lewis	Hon. Members will be aware of the Government’s ambition to create a new garden city at Ebbsfleet and of our intention to establish an urban development corporation to drive forward its development and delivery. I would like to take this opportunity to update hon. Members on the progress we have made. This country has faced a shortfall in housing for many years, with young people and families struggling to find the homes they want and need, particularly in the south-east. We are committed to increasing their chances, and our programmes to accelerate house building are already seeing results. Our £1.5 billion large sites programme is expected to unlock 100,000 homes by the end of this month, and a further 200,000 homes could be unlocked as we take the programme forward. This is in addition to the plans in place to create housing zones on brownfield sites across the country. Last year, we published our prospectus for locally led garden cities, and we are now working closely to support the development of a new garden town at Bicester, with a capacity to deliver up to 13,000 new homes. Our approach is locally led. We invite local areas to come forward, without any top-down, centrally imposed requirements. This approach will help make new garden cities acceptable locally—and, as such, to make them a reality. With close transport links and large areas of brownfield land, the Ebbsfleet area has huge potential as a place to deliver a substantial number of new homes. It has long been identified—in fact, as far back as the last Government’s sustainable communities plan—as an ideal location for major development. Despite these ambitions, progress has been slow, and Ebbsfleet remains largely undeveloped. Our plans for Ebbsfleet aim to change that and to drive forward this historic development opportunity. In last year’s Budget, the Government announced plans to create a new locally led garden city at Ebbsfleet, Kent, capable of providing up to 15,000 new homes predominantly on brownfield land or former quarries. The Government are seeking not only to increase the pace of development, but to create high-quality development. We want to build homes that are supported by local employment opportunities, green space and the necessary infrastructure, so that Ebbsfleet becomes a place where people want to live, work and raise their families. To help realise this vision, the Government have announced that up to £200 million of infrastructure funding will be made available to support delivery. We also announced that a new statutory body—an urban development corporation—would be formed to bring real focus on driving forward delivery. Since then, we have been working closely with each of the three local authorities and other partners on the preparatory work to establish the urban development corporation and to set the scene for the future garden city. I put on record the fact that I welcome the cross-party support that the Opposition have given to these proposals. I am pleased to report that house building is already under way in some parts of the proposed garden city. Last October, I opened the first phase of housing being led by Ward Homes at Castle Hill. Just today, Land Securities exchanged contracts with Persimmon Homes for the next phase of 170 homes at Castle Hill. Much remains to be done to increase the rate of development at Ebbsfleet, but this is welcome progress none the less. In August last year, we consulted on the proposal to set up an urban development corporation. We set out the powers that we propose the corporation should have, including compulsory purchase powers, the transfer of the planning management powers that are currently exercised by the local authorities and, of course, the ability to invest money to secure the regeneration of the area. In our consultation, we asked for views on the area in which the urban development corporation would operate, on the planning powers it would be granted, and on the composition of the board. The consultation was supported by an active engagement campaign, and the results demonstrated overall support for the proposal to create a development corporation for Ebbsfleet. In December last year, we published our response to the consultation, which confirmed our intention to continue with the proposal to establish a development corporation at Ebbsfleet. Although supportive, the consultation did highlight some areas of concern, such as the impact of development on existing infrastructure. These issues were not unanticipated, and we announced in the autumn statement that there would be a review of the transport provision for the Ebbsfleet area. The Government also announced in the autumn statement the provision of the first £100 million to fund infrastructure and land remediation to kick-start development—obviously subject to due diligence. We are working closely with local partners to understand the scale of the infrastructure required and how best to accelerate delivery. We want to ensure that, on establishment, the urban development corporation has in place the tools necessary to enable it to hit the ground running. It is crucial that the urban development corporation is able to pick up the reins from the local authorities and deliver its objectives seamlessly, without causing any unnecessary uncertainty among local communities and local businesses. In August last year, we appointed Michael Cassidy as the chairman designate. He was the chairman of the City of London property investment board, and has extensive experience in a range of roles across the business and industry sectors. Since his appointment, he has actively engaged with local partners and the major landowners to develop a shared understanding of the work required to drive forward development. More recently, we launched the recruitment process for a permanent chief executive. However, as this post will take some months to fill, we are appointing key interim personnel to maintain momentum and continuity. These interim posts will, in the meantime, continue to drive forward not only the set-up of the urban development corporation, but progress on the work to develop a shared strategy for the garden city. We have made progress, too, on the process to recruit, through open competition, the remainder of the urban development corporation’s board members. Some 90 applications were received and interviews are under way. These will be in addition to the local authority representatives from Dartford, Gravesham and Kent who, as we have already made clear, will have a seat on the board. The urban development corporation will develop a shared vision and master-plan for the locally led garden city that reflects the views of the local people. Much can be done in the meantime to set in place the foundations for this work, and to provide a platform from which the urban development corporation can work. We are progressing with the production of a development framework for the area. This will provide critical baseline data and act as the starting-point for the design of the future Ebbsfleet garden city. In parallel, we are preparing the procurement process for a full master-plan, which can then be taken forward by the urban development corporation. We want the design of the garden city to be as collaborative as possible. We will therefore use this preparatory work to make sure that future master-planning is carried out in a way that encourages the full participation of the local communities and local businesses. We recognise that there is likely to be a transition period between the establishment of the urban development corporation and the point at which it will be fully resourced to operate as the local planning authority. We are therefore working closely with the local authorities to agree and put in place a service level agreement, which will enable the local authorities to administer the planning service for the urban development corporation for a transitional period to ensure a smooth handover and to develop a partnership to deliver a locally led garden city. We are pushing forward with the final key stages of the physical set-up of the urban development corporation, putting in place the accommodation and technical facilities needed to ensure that the UDC is fully resourced and equipped to undertake its objectives. Hon. Members will be aware that the Government tabled in the other place an amendment to the Deregulation Bill to change the parliamentary approval procedure from affirmative to negative for the establishment of urban development areas and urban development corporations. This amendment was accepted, and is now part of the Deregulation Bill. I should like to place on record my thanks to the hon. Members for City of Durham (Roberta Blackman-Woods) and for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) and the shadow Secretary of State for their participation in discussions about how to proceed on this matter. I know that they share my wish to see this proposal make progress. The Government intend, subject to Parliamentary approval, to lay a negative statutory instrument immediately following Royal Assent to establish the urban development corporation. A separate order to grant the corporation planning functions, making it the local planning authority responsible for the development of the area, will be laid at the same time. I trust that that update will reassure Members of the Government’s commitment to creating a locally led garden city at Ebbsfleet that will be fit for the 21st century.
2015-03-03b.848.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Ebbsfleet	Emma Reynolds	I thank the Minister for his statement, and for giving me advance sight of it. As he said, there is cross-party support for the development at Ebbsfleet, and Labour Members support it strongly. I agree with him that Ebbsfleet has huge potential to deliver a substantial number of homes and an outstanding new community. Having been to Ebbsfleet, I have seen with my own eyes not just the opportunities that it offers but its terrain, which presents significant challenges. We want to see a new generation of garden cities and new towns, and we believe that Ebbsfleet could make an important contribution to such a programme. That is why, as the Minister said, we have sought to work with the Government constructively and on a cross-party basis to deliver the UDC. As the Minister also said, my hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham (Roberta Blackman-Woods) participated actively in the discussions with the Government, and is strongly committed to the delivery of a new generation of garden cities. She has spoken about the subject eloquently, in the House and elsewhere. We naturally welcome the forming of an urban development corporation to drive this development forward, but we are concerned about the use of UDCs to deliver a full programme of garden cities. As the Minister knows, they are not set up to deliver garden city principles, which is why we pressed for the inclusion of a sunset clause. I am pleased that agreement was reached on that. Although I welcome the Government’s initiative in establishing the UDC over the past five years, it would be remiss of me not to mention the number of mixed messages that we have received in regard to both Ebbsfleet and garden cities more broadly. In 2011 the then Housing Minister, the right hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps) , spoke of rebooting garden cities, and in 2012 the Prime Minister announced that he would publish a consultation on garden cities by the end of the year. Six months later, the Deputy Prime Minister said that some lively debate was taking place within the Government, but promised incentives that would deliver projects that were “big and bold”. In December 2012, the Government announced that Ebbsfleet would be the site for a large-scale development of 20,000 new homes. Subsequently, however, rather than seeing the “big and bold” projects that had been promised, we saw reports in the newspapers that the Prime Minister was suppressing a document and had gone cold on the idea. Later that year, the Housing Minister said that he was not aware of a report that was supposed to have been published, but the Deputy Prime Minister said that there was a prospectus, and that the Government should be honest about their intentions. The Secretary of State then contradicted his own Housing Minister, saying that his Department had told him that there was a report, but not a report from the Department for Communities and Local Government. We were a little bemused by all that. However, a prospectus for garden cities was finally published, and in last year’s Budget statement the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced that there would be a new garden city at Ebbsfleet containing 15,000 homes—5,000 fewer than had been promised in 2012. Given the scale of the housing crisis and the evident cross-party support for garden cities, I should like to know what is behind the Government’s stops and starts on the Ebbsfleet initiative and on garden cities more generally. I should also like to know where the additional 5,000 new homes have gone. That seems to be something of a mystery. I welcomed what the Minister said about infrastructure. The Government said last year that, once established, the Ebbsfleet UDC would be expected to identify sources of additional funding, further to the funding for basic infrastructure that had already been announced. Will the Minister tell us how much additional funding he and his Department think might be necessary to get the Ebbsfleet project moving, and whether its source in either the private or the public sector has been identified? The garden city movement which was founded by Ebenezer Howard has a long and proud history of promoting and providing outstanding places for people to live in. Although I support what the Minister has said today, I am anxious for the founding principles of the movement to be respected, albeit in a modern setting. Perhaps the Minister will explain why he did not mention affordable housing, and why his predecessor told my hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham in a written parliamentary answer that “The Government do not impose a particular level of affordable housing for housing schemes.”—[ Official Report , 9 April 2014; Vol. 579, c. 239W .] Can the Minister reassure us that the master plan will include a commitment to a significant proportion of affordable homes? If it does not, I fear that there will not be much garden to the garden city. The Government’s garden city prospectus invited communities to come up with proposals, or “big and bold” projects, as the Deputy Prime Minister called them. Will the Minister tell us how many bids have been submitted so far? Let me end by echoing what the Minister said about securing the Ebbsfleet development. This is a long-term project which presents significant challenges but also has huge potential, and, as such, it requires a long-term approach from Members in all parts of the House. On that basis, I welcome the fact that we have reached cross-party agreement.
2015-03-03b.850.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Ebbsfleet	Brandon Lewis	I thank the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) for expressing what could broadly be described as cross-party support. She did, however, ask a couple of questions, and mentioned the pace at which the garden city programme had proceeded. She was absolutely right to refer to the terrain at Ebbsfleet. I think that anyone who watches our exchanges, or reads the Hansard report, and wonders why it has taken so long for us to reach this point needs to be aware of a couple of facts. I shall explain in a moment how the programme has been structured in the past, but there is no doubt that the terrain is an important element. Ebbsfleet is an astonishing place to visit: a map simply does not do justice to its contours and topography. At one point, the hon. Lady asked how much garden there would be in a garden city. We want to deliver something of which we can all be proud. We need to have a vision of the way in which not just community housing but real communities should be built. That means ensuring that there is the right mix of residential, retail, commercial and open space for people to enjoy, so that they can get to know their neighbours and be part of a strong community. The community must be at the forefront of this project. We opted for an urban development corporation in this case—with Opposition support—because three local authorities and various landowners were involved. In fact, the Government have a small landholding interest. That makes the position very complex. The hon. Lady said that it had taken several years for us to make progress. As she knows, we have been dealing with a legislative process over the past few months, since last year’s Budget statement. I found her comments slightly ironic. Let me politely suggest that she might like to stand up and name some of the eco-towns that have not been built since they were announced by the last Government. We are now able to deliver on the garden city principles, at Ebbsfleet, at Bicester—which I visited again just last week—and in other areas because ours is not a top-down approach. We are not making decisions from on high; local authorities are coming to us and saying that they want to develop on the basis of those principles. It takes time for authorities to get organised and prepare to submit their proposals to the Government, but I think that that is right. The longevity of delivery that the hon. Lady rightly mentioned enables long-term plans to be developed properly, and to be locally designed, locally supported and locally proposed. The hon. Lady referred to funding more generally, and to affordable housing. I repeat that ours is not a top-down approach. Once the urban development corporation has been set up, it will become the planning authority, and levels of affordable housing and section 106 agreements are a matter for planning authorities. On the basis of localism, we let the local authorities deal with such matters, and I trust them to do so. Some agreements are already in place, and are delivering substantial infrastructure and section 106 agreements for the area. In terms of the total cost of development at Ebbsfleet, developing a prioritised infrastructure list will be one of the first tasks the development corporation will be taking forward. In advance of it even being established, we have been working with partners to identify the key items of infrastructure needed to support development. We do not yet have a total cost for the infrastructure because there will be many items that partners would want us to consider and include, and the development corporation needs to be the body that looks carefully both at what infrastructure is needed to support the garden city development and who should pay for it. Of course, much of the infrastructure building work will be paid for by developers, not by the Government or the development corporation directly. That is where the section 106 agreements that are already in place, and those that are developed for the major developments with outline planning consent, will take us forward.
2015-03-03b.851.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Ebbsfleet	Gareth Johnson	Ebbsfleet in my Dartford constituency is home to some very ambitious housing projects. The full potential of the area will not be realised without proper investment and commitment to the infrastructure, not just of the garden city but the surrounding area. The Minister mentioned that the Chancellor announced £200 million of investment at the last Budget. Will the Minister give my constituents a guarantee that the Government are still committed to that and that local people will have an input into how that money will be spent? It appears that the Opposition want another 5,000 homes in the garden city. Does the Minister agree that we do not judge a good housing project on the number of homes we are able to cram into a particular area?
2015-03-03b.852.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Ebbsfleet	Brandon Lewis	My hon. Friend has been a strong proponent not just of Ebbsfleet more generally but, as I saw on a couple of visits with him to his area, of making sure that this development is done in a way that is conducive to, works with and delivers for, the local community, recognising not just the community we want to build, but the communities and local authorities that are already in the area within the constituencies of my hon. Friends the Members for Gravesham (Mr Holloway) and for Dartford (Gareth Johnson). My hon. Friend the Member for Dartford has also worked closely with the local authorities who have their own affordable housing policies, which will be what govern the development of that area. Both of those authorities are clearly looking to secure a level of 30% of affordable housing, and I can assure my hon. Friend that today’s statement does not change what was said at the Budget last year or the finances announced in the autumn statement—I know that he has worked hard on that with his local residents and authorities. It stays in place, as was. What we are doing today is giving an update, in particular on the development and the incorporation of that corporation.
2015-03-03b.852.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Ebbsfleet	Oliver Heald	In welcoming the statement as the MP for Letchworth garden city, the world’s first, may I wish Ebbsfleet well? Does the Minister agree that the principles of garden cities—mixed tenure, a scheme of building that maintains garden city features over time, the features themselves, with allotments, space, commons, an agricultural area nearby, and separation of areas between residential, employment land and retail—can be applied not just to larger communities of 15,000 or 20,000, but to smaller communities too? In Hertfordshire we are looking at—the MPs are anyway—possibly pushing North Herts district council to go for a garden city or town that might be smaller than 10,000. Does the Minister agree that almost any size of community can be planned on garden city lines?
2015-03-03b.852.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Ebbsfleet	Brandon Lewis	My hon. and learned Friend makes a very good point. One point I have made at various recent events is that we must make sure as we move forward that we build good-quality design, not just lots and lots of housing estates. There are two reasons for that. If we want people to be more accepting of development, not only have we got to make sure that people are involved in that through local plans and neighbourhood planning, but the development they see in their area must be of good quality. That requires good-quality design not just of the properties but the overall master plan. My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right that having even small areas developed where, when possible and appropriate, there is a good mix of retail, commercial and residential, with good open space and good community areas, bringing people together, does not just deliver good-quality homes for people to live in and good-quality places for people to raise their families, but also builds good, strong, long-lasting communities, and that is something I wholeheartedly support.
2015-03-03b.853.0	ROYAL ASSENT	Ebbsfleet	Tony Baldry	Ebbsfleet is blessed in that there is already a Bishop of Ebbsfleet, which must be the first time that the bishop has come before the city, rather than a city creating a bishop. I want to raise two points. We will not need an urban development corporation for Bicester. All the land for it lies within the area of Cherwell district council, and we are determined to make a success of it, and to make a garden town for the 21st century of which the country can be proud. What we will need, however, is the Ministry of Defence to surrender every square foot of MOD land that it does not need as speedily as possible. As evidence that Cherwell district council is determined to get on with this as speedily as possible, as my hon. Friend the Minister will know but the House may not know, Cherwell had acquired land to build 1,900 self-build homes. This is an incredibly popular project. Local development orders are now in place. Queues of people are coming, wanting to acquire these plots for self-build homes. May I suggest that this project, witnessed by the Prime Minister yesterday, could be rolled out to other parts of the country, because there is clearly a large appetite among the public for building their own homes, as we have seen in Bicester?
2015-03-03b.853.1	ROYAL ASSENT	Ebbsfleet	Brandon Lewis	My right hon. Friend has been a loud and strong proponent of the fantastic work being done in Bicester and of development on those garden city principles, and he is absolutely right. I visited Bicester last year and I visited again last week to see the excellent work done in just a few months, and the progress made to deliver the development in a good, strong, community-built way. He is right that this shows it does not have to be just one type of tenure. We can also develop the custom and self-build opportunities, which the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) and I have agreed on in the House—there is cross-party agreement—in the last few months. I would say, however, that we do not do well enough in this country in sharing best practice. I advise people across local government who are looking at developments and how to develop to look at what is happening in places like Bicester and to talk to those involved. They are strong proponents, they are happy to talk to people, and they have done some excellent work that they can share with others about how good-quality development can help build strong communities of which we can all be proud.
2015-03-03b.854.2	ROYAL ASSENT	Housing Ombudsman (Power to Settle Disputes between Neighbours and Tenants)	Nick de Bois	I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to provide for a discretionary power to enable the Housing Ombudsman to attempt to resolve disputes between occupants of neighbouring properties in cases where nuisance is caused by tenants; and for connected purposes. Members will know that houses in multiple occupation —so-called HMOs—are a growing feature of our towns and cities. Last year there were almost 200,000 in London alone, which was a growth of over 10,000 on the previous 12 months. There are now more than 1,000 HMOs in my borough of Enfield. Why have we seen this growth? Often HMOs offer cheaper and flexible accommodation. They are already a key component of our housing tapestry. HMOs are also an attractive prospect for private landlords. As the website of one property management firm puts it: “If you have a large property and are renting it out to just one tenant, consider transforming it into a HMO or hostel. This gives you the ability to take on more tenants and thus increase your potential for profit.” However, as the website also says: “If you want to turn your property into a hostel or HMO, there are certain responsibilities you need to consider”, most of which relate to the condition and safety of the premises. My Bill seeks to add to those responsibilities, particularly in the field of antisocial behaviour, without the heavy hand of regulation imposing greater burdens. Some weeks ago a constituent came to me who lives next to one of the HMOs managed by the property management firm to which I have referred. Some of the tenants, who admitted that they smoked too much marijuana which made them behave erratically, made my constituent’s life a nightmare: scratching their car; constantly playing loud music; knocking on the doors well beyond midnight; and on one occasion smashing up their property. The police and the council batted the problem between them. My constituent could not, of course, over a period of time even build any relationships with the HMO residents, as they are often transient. The constituent, who prefers to remain anonymous for reasons the House will understand, has attempted to resolve the matter themselves. My constituent and their family are responsible, decent and hard-working, and do not immediately look to others, including the state, to solve their problems, but after weeks of discussion with the occupants and the landlord agent, they saw no progress. The state failed to solve the behavioural issues, and the agent simply recycled the tenants. In a final attempt to resolve the problem, my constituent tried to contact the landlord. The agent would not disclose the landlord’s details. As far as we can tell, they made no effort to arrange a meeting between the neighbours and the landlords. In desperation, my constituent turned to their local MP, and I turned to this Bill. Clearly, the standard rules surrounding antisocial behaviour in private rented accommodation are simply not enough when dealing with packed HMOs. For example, the lengthy process for a neighbour to get a noise abatement notice against a single tenant is often too little, too late. Indeed, Mr Deputy Speaker, you will appreciate better than anyone the difficulty of controlling antisocial behaviour in a crowded House with many unruly occupants, but at least the boundaries here are clear. Selective licensing of houses in multiple occupation acknowledges the unique issues and allows local authorities to crack down on antisocial areas, but as we have heard, many have failed to do so. However, authority-wide licence zones mean more costs for all landlords, not just the rogues. We need to give neighbours themselves the tools to hold landlords responsible, when appropriate. Put simply, when other steps fail to deal with the problem, or when landlord agents simply remove tenants and replace them with other challenging occupants, there is at present no recourse to the landlord. Landlords do not answer to neighbours for the consequences of contracts they have entered into with agents and tenants. As we know only too well, antisocial behaviour is often treated as a problem for the victim, and there is no workable process to deal with the negative externalities that result from contracts being formed. However, the mediation that I propose, initiated by the ombudsman, would offer another solution. The Bill sets out a means of giving neighbours the right to seek mediation with the landlord, if the housing ombudsman agrees. At present, the ombudsman can instruct mediation only between a landlord and a tenant. Indeed, the advice from the ombudsman states: “The first person to tell about a problem with housing is the landlord. They might be able to put things right.” I could not agree more. I think that the same applies to antisocial behaviour next door, but at the moment, it is extremely difficult to locate and identify a landlord. Indeed, it is almost impossible when a landlord wishes to protect their identity. The Bill would provide a means of dealing with the disturbing practice of recycling antisocial behaviour, which frankly takes too long for local authorities to sort out. I want to put a stop to the practice by giving neighbours who are the victims of antisocial behaviour the right to deal with the landlord of the property in question. I believe that that will help to resolve the problem in a timely fashion. The vast majority of landlords are good landlords, and they will want to stop bad behaviour when they are made aware of it. If there are landlords who do not care, the Bill will force them to take action. In many cases, the neighbours believe that the landlord is not even aware of the problems in the property that they have let out. This change must be made, however, without getting the ombudsman involved in more generic neighbourhood disputes. This is not about disputes over high hedges, parking or planning. The Bill is not about interfering with the growth in HMOs. It does not confer rights on neighbours to object to the use of premises as HMOs. Rather, it is about easing the path of reconciliation by setting out clearly the right to take concerns directly to landlords when other reasonable steps taken by the victims have failed. The Bill would hold absentee landlords responsible for antisocial behaviour without having to introduce a special licence or blocking the HMO. Who has not had constituents in their surgeries telling them that they are facing intolerable quality-of-life issues because of neighbours from hell? The House should seek to remedy that situation and make it easier for our constituents who do the right thing, the decent thing, and who wish to try to solve the problem for themselves. If we can facilitate that for them, we will be taking a great step forward. I commend the Bill to the House. Question put and agreed to. Ordered, That Nick de Bois, Mr David Burrowes, Jim Fitzpatrick, Sarah Newton, Bob Blackman, Sir Bob Russell, Mike Freer, Mr Lee Scott, Mrs Mary Glindon, Sir Roger Gale, Graham Stringer and Ms Gisela Stuart present the Bill. Nick de Bois accordingly presented the Bill. Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 March , and to be printed (Bill 179).
2015-03-03b.857.4	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Anne Begg	I shall continue the theme of housing: we have had a statement and a ten-minute rule Bill on housing, and this debate is about the Work and Pensions Select Committee’s report on support for housing costs in the reformed welfare system. There are two important debates scheduled for this afternoon, but given that we have had two urgent questions and two statements, our deliberations might have to be somewhat curtailed. Our report dealt with the series of reforms to housing benefit and other support to meet housing costs that the Government have introduced since 2010. The report was published in April last year, and strangely, we have been granted a debate on the Floor of the House today without having received the Government’s response to it. Normally, we would expect a Government response to a Select Committee report to be published before any such debate is granted. We have been waiting for almost a year to receive the Government response. As I have said, our report was published in April 2014. We have still not received the Government response almost a year later, but that is not for want of trying. In September last year, the Minister for Welfare Reform, Lord Freud, wrote to me to apologise for the delay, saying that although the response had been prepared, the Department for Work and Pensions was still in the process of seeking “cross-government clearance” for it. I do not know whether that means there is a major split in the coalition over the report; perhaps the Minister could fill us in on why the Government’s response has still not made it out of the DWP and into the light of day. As we still had not received a response by December, I wrote, with the Committee’s agreement, to the same Minister to ask that a response be submitted as a matter of urgency, but I have still not received reply to that letter. As you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, effective Select Committee scrutiny is hampered if the Government fail to abide by the agreed process. I appreciate that today’s Minister is not the one I have been writing to, but I hope he will engage fully with the detailed and specific recommendations in our report—the Government have failed to do that for nearly a year. The recommendations are important and we hope the Government are taking them seriously. The report covered a wide range of issues relating to housing costs and the welfare system, but perhaps the most controversial was “social sector size criteria”. We called it that to try to make it sound more neutral; any other form of words can be emotive, because it is called the bedroom tax, the removal of the spare room subsidy or the under-occupancy penalty, depending on one’s political view. However, it is the charge that has meant that social tenants deemed to have more bedrooms than they need have had their housing benefit reduced. The Government said that the aims of the reform were to reduce benefit expenditure, make use of the social housing stock and incentivise people to enter work. We actually agreed that using housing stock more effectively and reducing overcrowding were understandable goals. The question was: were the Government achieving them? Although it is true that some reduction in housing benefit has resulted, it is not because people have moved house and are now more appropriately housed; it is because many people caught by the bedroom tax—the social sector size criteria—have merely had to subsidise their housing costs from other benefit or other income, and so of course it has saved the Government some money. However, we found that many people whom we genuinely believe the Government did not want to be caught by the bedroom tax were being affected by it, and many of them are vulnerable people. As many as 60% to 70% of households in England affected by the bedroom tax contain somebody with a disability. The whole idea was that tenants would move to smaller houses, but we found that not enough smaller houses were available across the country. Some people might have been able to move into the private rented sector, which might have been more expensive for them, but even in that sector not enough suitable accommodation was available. Others of the vulnerable group were not able to respond by finding work, because of their illness and their disabilities. We also found that a significant number of people caught by the bedroom tax had specifically adapted homes, which means that it is difficult and expensive for them to move to smaller accommodation. Whoever came up with the idea that they could do so clearly has not been through the process, as I have, of trying to find a home that is easily adapted or has been adapted. The only option for many people was to remain in their homes and so have their housing benefit reduced. All they could do was make up the shortfall. DWP research has shown that that often meant cutting down on household essentials or borrowing money from family and friends. The reduction in housing benefit was not insignificant for those who had no choice but to pay up—a 14% cut where the tenant was deemed to be under-occupying by one bedroom and a 25% cut where under-occupation was deemed to be by two or more bedrooms. In addition, the deduction is made on the basis of the total rent paid, without regard to the level of housing benefit actually received. Therefore, those in partial receipt of housing benefit would have to pay more proportionately. The Government’s statistics show that by the end of November 2014 the reduction had been applied to nearly half a million claimants and that the average reduction was nearly £15 per week. We found that this reform was having a particular impact on people with disabilities, including those I have mentioned already: those who have adapted homes; and people who need a room to hold medical equipment or to accommodate a carer—often a family carer. We recommended that anybody living in a home that has been significantly adapted for them should be exempt from having their benefit reduced. We also called on the Government to exempt all households that contain a person in receipt of higher level disability benefits—disability living allowance or the new personal independence payment. Hon. Members should note our use of the word “exempt”; we wanted those groups of people exempt. The Government’s response is to say, “Oh, but they don’t have to pay in any case because they have access to discretionary housing payments.” Given the number of people who are reliant on DHPs, there must be something wrong with the original policy if so many people have to rely on some kind of “transitional” arrangement. But it is not transitional, simply because there are not the houses for these people to move to or they cannot move because of the kind of accommodation they require which does not fit the criteria set down by the Government. The Government say, as they have been saying for the whole year we have been waiting on their response, that the protection is available through the DHPs. It is true that the Government have substantially increased the funding for DHPs, but those payments are awarded by local authorities to people facing hardship in paying their rent, including tenants affected by the bedroom tax and by the benefit cap, and they are still discretionary. Of course, they are also not meant to be long term, as this is a transitional protection. The other problem is that DHPs are awarded on the basis of eligibility criteria, which each local authority can set itself. That can create a postcode lottery, and we felt it was important that the granting of a DHP should be based on access to the help needed, rather than being dependent on where a claimant lived. As we often say, any benefit or award should be based on need, not on somebody’s postcode. We were also concerned that some local authorities are taking income from disability benefits into account in the means tests they apply for determining eligibility for DHPs. It may be that individual households would qualify normally for a DHP based on just the raw criteria, but when the means test is taken into account they do not get it. Members in this House have said that it did not matter whether an individual or a family was subject to the bedroom tax because they would always get the money reimbursed or they would be helped out by a DHP, but for a large number of families that did not happen because of the application of this second means test. The benefits that were being taken into account were things such as disability living allowance and personal independence payments, but they are paid to people who are long-term sick and to disabled people to help them meet the extra costs of their disability. They are not meant to subsidise their housing costs. Those extra costs do not go away just because someone has to contribute something towards their rent because their housing benefit no longer covers the full amount. We recommended that the Government should issue revised guidance to local authorities, making it clear that disability benefits should be disregarded in any means tests for DHPs. As yet, we do not know whether that has happened, and I hope that the Minister can tell us whether that sensible and modest request by my Select Committee has been put in place. There is also the problem that DHPs were meant to be temporary and transitional. They were never intended to provide a long-term solution, which is why we hoped that certain categories of claimants would be exempt. That makes far more sense than having claimants apply every six months, or every year, for a DHP, or for help towards their housing costs. We are talking about long-term problems. If a claimant cannot move house or find work, why is it that they still have to apply for a DHP? Local authorities seem unwilling to make longer term awards, so claimants often end up having to re-apply every six or 12 months. Each time a family has to apply for a DHP, they go through anxiety and uncertainty, and they never know whether they will get the award this time round. We concluded that if DHPs are to continue to be used as the main way of mitigating the hardship that the reforms are causing, substantial levels of funding will be needed for the foreseeable future. Claimants need to be given certainty that long-term awards are available. During our inquiry, we visited some people who were caught in that particular Catch-22 situation and they really were worried about the future. There is also the question whether there is sufficient funding for DHPs. Although central funding was increased to £165 million in 2014-15, it will go down again to £125 million in the next financial year—a drop of £40 million. During our inquiry, the Government argued that DHPs were sufficient because local authorities had not bid for the full amount of funding that was available, but we believed—this has been borne out by later evidence—that that was because the reforms were at an early stage. Local authorities were still trying to adjust to the changes, and claimants were often not aware that DHPs were available. The DWP’s own research found that 56% of people who had not applied for DHPs were not aware that they existed, but they were as likely as other claimants to report difficulty in paying the rent or being in arrears. We recommended that the Government should review the whole DHP provision when more detail was available, which it must be by now, and increase the funding, but we now know that that will be reduced. Obviously, there has not been a proper review and, as a result, it will be harder and harder for local authorities to continue to meet the costs of the DHPs that their own criteria say they should be paying out. I would be interested to hear from the Minister what the evidential basis is for reducing DHP funding next year. Does the funding level take account of actual assessed levels of hardship arising from reduced housing benefit, or is it based only on the amount of DHP that local authorities have been able to distribute so far? What steps are the Government and local authorities taking to inform vulnerable claimants that they can apply for DHPs to help them make up their rent shortfalls? Another aspect that has arisen as a result of the changes to housing benefit is the introduction of a cap on the total amount of benefits that a household can receive. The current limit is £26,000 a year. It is relevant to housing costs because it is the claimant’s housing benefit that is reduced when they hit the cap. It is worth noting that almost everybody affected by the cap either lives in an area of the country with expensive rented accommodation, such as London, or are being placed in temporary accommodation because they are homeless. Local authorities often have no option other than to put homeless people in temporary accommodation because of the lack of other rented housing in the area. That problem is getting more and more acute in a number of areas, but temporary housing is normally more expensive than permanent accommodation and claimants can then fall within the scope of the benefit cap. Local authorities often end up paying the shortfall between rent levels and housing benefit for those affected by the cap through DHPs, so there is in fact no overall saving to public funds. We recommended that the Government should exempt all households in temporary accommodation from the benefit cap, because it seems particularly unjust for those claimants to be affected when they had no choice over where they were housed. We also found that the benefit cap was having an adverse impact on disabled persons and their carers, and that is a particular problem when the carer lives with the disabled person—usually as the parent of a child, but it could be as the adult child of a disabled parent—but they are not considered, for benefit reasons, to be part of the same household. We recommended that the Government should exempt from the benefit cap all recipients of carers allowance in that situation. The Government said that the benefit cap was not intended to push carers into work, but that may well be the effect unless the recipients of carer’s allowance are exempted from the cap. I do not think that the Government anticipated that carers would be caught by the bedroom tax. We also looked at the local housing allowance, which is the former housing benefit for tenants in the private rented sector. The Government announced reforms to the LHA in the June 2010 Budget, and the Committee published a report that year highlighting our concerns about the implication of the changes. Our 2014 report assessed the impact of the reforms. We concluded that there was a growing discrepancy between average rents and the amount of local housing allowance that households can claim. We found that, as a result, private sector landlords are increasingly reluctant to rent to LHA recipients. Evictions and non-renewals of tenancies are increasing, and the properties that do remain available to claimants are increasingly of poor quality and there are fewer and fewer of them. We also looked at the impact on homelessness. We noted that, despite homeless statistics being down overall, rises are occurring in areas where demand for housing is high, and that homelessness among those not deemed to be “in priority need” had increased by 9% between 2012 and 2013. In order to qualify as priority need, households need to be vulnerable in some way. We are talking about single mothers or victims of special circumstances, such as a fire or flood, so many homeless people are excluded from the definition. It is therefore not surprising that many people who are homeless are not necessarily showing up in the figures. We were also concerned about younger people affected by the changes to the shared accommodation rate, which is the housing benefit paid to claimants without dependents who live in private rented accommodation. Basically, it means that they cannot rent a complete flat or house of their own; they can afford to rent only a room. The benefit had previously applied to claimants under 25, but from April 2012, as part of the LHA reforms, the Government extended the SAR to any single claimant under the age of 35 without dependent children. We found that in many areas insufficient accommodation at this level of rent was available. We heard evidence of possible adverse impacts on people with mental health problems and on parents with non-resident children, who would no longer have room to accommodate their children when they came to stay. We concluded that the extension of the shared accommodation rate to single claimants up to the age of 35 might well have reduced the availability of safe, appropriate accommodation for younger people, some of whom may be vulnerable. We recommended that the Government should assess the impact of this change to the shared accommodation rate. If there was evidence that the change was resulting in some vulnerable young people having to live in situations which were inappropriate or put them at risk, we thought that the Government should consider introducing exemptions for vulnerable people and doing more to increase the provision of appropriate accommodation. On the face of it, the introduction of universal credit may seem unlikely to affect housing costs, but housing benefit is one of the six benefits that will form part of universal credit. The biggest change in respect of housing benefit is that it will be administered by the DWP directly as part of universal credit, rather than by local authorities, as is the case at present. Universal credit, including the housing costs element, will generally be paid direct to claimants once a month, although exceptions can be made. For some time now most claimants in the private rented sector have received their housing benefit direct and paid rent to their landlords. However, for social housing tenants, this represents a huge change, as their housing benefit has always previously been paid to their landlords and they have not been faced with handling the significant sums that housing benefit sometimes involves, especially when it is paid once a month. In a report that we published in 2012 we looked at how universal credit would affect vulnerable claimants. One of the key issues that we considered was the challenge that some vulnerable people would face in coping with direct monthly payments of UC which included their housing costs. To test the impact of direct payment of housing costs on social sector tenants, the Government set up direct payment demonstration projects in six local authority areas in 2012. The findings from the research showed a distinct and significant drop in rent payment rates when tenants first migrated to direct payment. As a result, rent arrears increased, as did the number of tenants falling into arrears. Although tenants adjusted to the new system over time, much of the arrears that had built up in the early stages were not repaid, so total arrears continued to rise. Overall, tenants who went on to direct payment paid 95.5% of all the rent owed, compared with 99.1% who were not on direct payment. The Public Accounts Committee last week published a report on universal credit which concluded that these findings show that the DWP needs to reflect on how it will tackle the potential problems of paying the housing benefit element of universal credit directly to claimants. As we said about universal credit in 2012, it may work well for the majority of claimants, but it is the vulnerable minority who need special attention and extra support. This is particularly the case when it comes to housing costs because they often represent the largest proportion of a household’s benefit payments. If people fall into arrears and lose their homes, there can be all sorts of dire consequences, particularly for children. What I have said so far applies predominantly to England and Wales. Since we published our report there has been a referendum in Scotland and the setting up of the Smith commission to look into further devolved powers. My Select Committee has not had time to look at the implications of the Smith agreement and how that might impact on the way in which housing benefit is administered and paid in Scotland. Nevertheless, our report was wide ranging. I have not touched on all the important issues that it covered, but colleagues from the Committee are in the Chamber and they may do so. In conclusion, we continue to be disappointed that the Government have not been able to provide a response to the very important matters that we raised nearly a year ago. Many of the issues that we identified in April 2014 still exist in the system and some have been exacerbated with the passage of time. I look forward to the Minister’s update on the progress that has been made in addressing some of the concerns that I have raised.
2015-03-03b.863.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg) , the Chair of the Select Committee, who raises a number of interesting points. A number of those were debated in the private Member’s Bill introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) , the Affordable Homes Bill, which proposed a number of changes to the social sector criteria—the bedroom tax, spare room rent or whatever one wants to call it. One of those changes would, under certain circumstances, automatically exempt people with disabilities from being required to pay for a spare room. In law as it currently stands, under article 14 of the European convention on human rights, there is a legally enforceable right to get hold of discretionary housing payments. I have achieved that in Birmingham in a couple of cases, by using the threat of it rather than making the application to court. My constituency experience is that in the cases in which we should get DHP, in general we have got it. I agree that we should have an automatic exemption from paying for spare rooms for those people who need them because they have a disability, which is obvious, and those whose homes have been adapted. However, we have managed to get DHP in those cases, and we are getting longer DHP awards following the changes that defined the budget for two-year periods, so some progress is being made. The other change proposed in the Affordable Homes Bill was that people who said that they wanted to move would not have to pay. Of course, that is between 10% and 20% of people. In fact, I think that the figures for Birmingham show that roughly half those who were originally having to pay for spare rooms no longer have to, although obviously people are flowing in and out of the system. I find it rather sad—perhaps the Minister will take note of this point—that although the Department gets monthly statistics from all local authorities on what is going on with awards of DHP and the like, spare room rent and so on, we do not get up-to-date figures on the situation. One of the changes introduced in April 2013 was to enable people in the social rented sector to benefit in the same way as those who own their own homes if they want to let out a spare room to a lodger or boarder. Not only would they not have to pay for the spare room, but they could keep up to £20 a week of the additional money. Given that the applicable amount for a 25-year-old is currently around £71.70, £20 a week is quite a lot of money. I believe that only a handful of people in Birmingham have taken that up, but I think that is because people do not know that they can benefit. I had a meeting last night with care leavers, during which we discussed housing, because it is absolutely critical for them. We discussed how tight their budgets are when they have to live on means-tested benefits, because they have to pay water, gas and electricity bills, so there are great merits in people sharing property in certain circumstances. I advise young people to consider sharing, rather than trying to live alone. They raised a concern that even though they got some priority as care leavers, they were still given only one choice of property—take it or leave it. I think that varies from local authority to local authority, but perhaps more could be done in that regard. In my constituency advice bureau I get people who are very upset. The last person who was in tears was a constituent who was in overcrowded accommodation; they could not live comfortably in the two-bedroom flat they had. I find it sad that we are still not managing to deal with those who are under-occupying and those who are over-occupying in such a way that councils could resolve the issue. I recently had a case in which a pensioner wanted to downsize from a house but the council was being exceedingly difficult about it, saying, “When you took the house, certain adaptations were made, so we want you to reinstate them before we move you.” Obviously he is not paying the spare room rent, but he is still occupying a house that could be occupied by a family. I do not think that there is the urgency that there should be in local authorities to try to deal with overcrowding.
2015-03-03b.864.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Anne Begg	Actually, there is a need to ensure that people are appropriately housed and that they move, but very little of that responsibility lies with local authorities. The wrong way to go about it is just to take money from people who are over-occupying and would love to move but are not in a position to do so.
2015-03-03b.864.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	I personally think that it would be harsh to go around evicting everybody who is under-occupying although, that happens when people try to succeed to a tenancy; they are told that they cannot do so because the property is too big. I do not think that overcrowding is taken sufficiently seriously. Malcolm Wicks highlighted in his memoirs how he argued, when a Labour Housing Minister, for the need to bring in something akin to the current situation.
2015-03-03b.865.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Sheila Gilmore	The hon. Gentleman should acknowledge that the proposals from the late Malcolm Wicks involved incentives to move, not financial penalties to be applied immediately whether or not houses are available.
2015-03-03b.865.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention, but my reading of all the documents, including those memoirs, is different from hers. It was not about an incentive to move, which I do not think anyone would criticise. I think that his proposals were very similar to those that have been adopted by this Government, as seen in the written parliamentary questions.
2015-03-03b.865.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Mark Spencer	I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is being generous in giving way. Does he also recognise that it is wrong to distinguish between individuals on the basis of who their landlords are? Whether their landlord happens to be in the private sector or the public sector should make no difference to the level of support they get.
2015-03-03b.865.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. The scheme for working out how much space people need and paying them for it was introduced in the private sector many years ago. The Opposition will make the valid point that they did not make it retrospective, but the Government then say that if we want to deal with overcrowding and the like, this is one of the difficulties. Speaking personally, I would rather not do any of these things, but we do not have the finances for that. If we had chosen to take the Greek approach and say, “Can’t pay, won’t pay”, and then run out of money, we would not have had to do a lot of these things, but sadly we have to try to bring the books into balance over time.
2015-03-03b.865.4	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Sheila Gilmore	The fundamental problem with this whole policy—I think the hon. Gentleman is taking this position as well—is whether it is about saving money or making better use of houses. The amount being saved even on the Government’s own initial estimates was not enormous, and when we factor in discretionary housing payments and all the other things that have to be taken into account, the savings diminish even further. This is not really something that will save a lot of money. [ Interruption . ]
2015-03-03b.865.5	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	From a sedentary position, the Minister says, “£1 million a day”, which is about the order of magnitude that we were talking about. A policy can have more than one objective. It can be designed to save money and also to deal with overcrowding. This year, I have not had anyone in my office complaining about social services criteria, but I often get people complaining about being overcrowded.
2015-03-03b.865.6	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Helen Goodman	Is the hon. Gentleman aware that when the bedroom tax was introduced, 19,000 people in his constituency were already on the waiting list, of whom 8,000 wanted one-bedroom flats? There was already a long queue of people before the bedroom tax was introduced,
2015-03-03b.865.7	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	In my constituency, I was aware of a family of four living in a one-bedroom flat who wanted to transfer out of that into better accommodation.
2015-03-03b.866.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Mark Spencer	I am not familiar with Birmingham, Yardley, but I wonder whether the fact that the lists were so long is a symptom of the legacy of the previous Government’s inability to build single-bedroom accommodation for the hon. Gentleman’s constituents to move into.
2015-03-03b.866.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. Social landlords have had a relatively simplistic approach to designing property to suit the demands of the market. That creates a difficulty, in as much as one should recognise that there are real difficulties in the financial costs of living alone, including paying rent. The hon. Member for Aberdeen South said that the changes to universal credit mean that people have to keep money aside for rent in a social housing property in the same way as they have had to in a private rented property, the logic being that it makes for a seamless move into work and therefore they are not frightened about getting a job. In my constituency, I have worked with 6 Towns credit union, which is based in West Bromwich, to extend its service to Yardley, as it has done. It allows someone to be a preferred creditor. Basically, the housing element of universal credit or housing benefit is put to one side and made available for the landlord, be that a social housing landlord or a private landlord. It is important to do that, because we need to make sure that people do not end up in a mess. The idea is that budgeting is done through the bank account rather than the housing benefits system. That creates a situation in which people do not find themselves in great difficulty with budgeting as soon as they get into a monthly paid job. There have been proposals to cash limit housing benefit by giving it all to the local authorities. I think that the Institute for Public Policy Research proposed something along those lines. That would lead to a situation where potentially many more tenants in social housing would have to pay towards the rent for their accommodation. I would be concerned about that, because it would put them in a situation that they could do little about. I favour the current process, which supports people with the housing costs they need to pay so that they can cope on a day-to-day basis. This is a difficult area, and the Government have done many things that I would have preferred them not to do, one of which is the change to housing benefit, which it would have been nice to do gradually. However, we have to bring the books into balance, because if we do not, the interest rates on sovereign debt will go up and the amount of interest that we would then have to pay means that the cuts or tax rises that are necessary would become a lot greater than would have otherwise been the case.
2015-03-03b.866.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-03b.866.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Eleanor Laing	Order. I appreciate that there is a feeling the House is not very busy and that the whole afternoon and evening stretches before us, but another debate is scheduled to take place after this one. If everyone follows the example of the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) and speaks for approximately 10 minutes, all Members who have indicated that they wish to speak will have the opportunity to do so. I will not impose a time limit at the moment. The hon. Gentleman has set a good example, and I hope that everyone will follow it.
2015-03-03b.867.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Teresa Pearce	I am pleased to have the opportunity to participate in this debate. It was very well opened by my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg) , who is a dedicated and inspirational Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee. I want to put on the record my thanks to her for the way in which she has chaired the Committee and for all the things I have learned from her. She is the epitome of the iron fist in a velvet glove, and she manages to be both reasonable and radical at the same time. I am speaking in this debate because I am a member of the Select Committee, and the Chair has already gone through some of the recommendations in our report. Given the importance of the report, it is disappointing that, a year on, we are still waiting for the Government response. I hope that the Minister will address that matter. It is indisputable that we are the middle of a housing crisis. House building is down, homelessness and rough sleeping are rising, and houses are unaffordable for many people. The lack of social housing means that those with legitimate claims and in desperate need are deemed ineligible or not in priority need as local authorities try to implement housing strategies to manage demand with a only very few houses to allocate. The private rented sector has filled the vacuum caused by the lack of affordable and social housing. As a result, the private rented sector in London has grown by 75% in the past 10 years. In my constituency, it is now common for families to live in private rented accommodation, although they previously either owned their own home or lived in social housing. Yet the ever-growing private rented sector is still failing to meet the demands of renters. It is easy to reduce discussions about housing costs to an evaluation of numbers and statistics, but the truth is that covering housing costs is crucial to securing a stable home life and a stable society. Affordable housing costs give families certainty and freedom from the fear of eviction, and help to foster communities. Costs are spiralling out of control. The cost of renting has soared while wages have dropped. The lack of regulation in the private rented sector and the limited supply of housing in comparison with demand mean that private landlords are currently free to set their own prices. The cost of renting privately has increased consistently since 2009, and rents reportedly increased in London in 2012-13 by nearly 8%. It is not surprising that so many people, both in and out of work, require help with paying their housing costs and have to resort to housing benefit. The number of in-work housing benefit claimants rose from 439,000 at the end of 2008 to more than 1 million in May 2014. The latest statistics also show that there were just under 4.9 million housing benefit claimants at the end of November 2014—increased from 4.2 million in November 2008—of whom 67% were in the social rented sector, but the rest were in the private rented sector. The Committee’s report illustrated that the cost of housing benefit is rising, while the most vulnerable are failed when they rent privately. Over the past year, as a constituency MP, I have seen a spike in the number of people contacting my office who have been told that they are ineligible for social housing, but cannot secure private rented accommodation. That is due to a combination of factors, but one that has made things very difficult for people is the change in local housing allowance. Constituents tell me that when they go to the local authority, they are just given a list of private letting agents. The problem is that nearly all those on the list say that they do not take any tenants on benefits. Constituents are spending time and resources searching for suitable properties only to be told that they cannot be helped. That means that a large section of the private rented sector is unavailable to claimants, and that they are often forced to take poor, substandard property that fails to meet their needs.
2015-03-03b.868.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	We have found in the west midlands that private landlords are often willing to take people on housing benefit if they have a 6 Towns type of account that reserves the funds. There is a solution in the system as it stands. Perhaps that needs to be investigated. Obviously, 6 Towns does not operate across the country, but perhaps there are solutions that can be found within the current policy.
2015-03-03b.868.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Teresa Pearce	It is true that solutions can be found. Sadly, no one seems to have found them yet in my part of south-east London. The Work and Pensions Committee looked at the problems that are faced by people on housing benefit. They are discriminated against when looking for private rented accommodation. For families, that makes trying to find a roof over their heads an uphill struggle. Given that tenancies typically last for six to 12 months, private renters often have to move just as they have settled in. Children who live in such places have their life chances restricted and their education disrupted, and are often not registered with a doctor. That cannot be acceptable. Private landlords may be reluctant to rent accommodation or provide temporary accommodation to claimants for a number of reasons. It might not just be general discrimination, but might be due to constraints that are imposed by mortgage lenders, who say that they are not allowed to provide longer tenancies, or due to fears that local authorities will fail to allocate housing benefit in a timely manner. Giving private renters the option of allowing the housing benefit component of their universal credit payment to go directly to their landlord might allay those fears and enable private renters to control their finances more easily. The Government must work with private sector landlords to address their concerns about universal credit and offer greater support to those who rent property to housing benefit claimants. That work must start now.
2015-03-03b.868.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Debbie Abrahams	I grateful to my colleague on the Work and Pensions Committee for giving way. I met my key local social housing provider on Friday. It said that there was a 15% gap in rent collection between those on universal credit and those not on universal credit. That is manageable over a year or so, but over the longer term it will create huge problems. I wonder whether my hon. Friend wants to comment on that point.
2015-03-03b.868.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Teresa Pearce	That is a valid point. It is something that we all encounter locally when we talk to housing providers. It needs to be addressed, so I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. Another problem for private renters is that the change to local housing allowance is further restricting their access to the widest selection of available properties. Local housing allowance rates match only the 30th per- centile of homes within a broad rental market area. The Government reduced that from the 50th percentile. I believe that that needs to be re-evaluated urgently, especially in London. Rents have risen, but the local housing allowance was frozen in 2012-13 and uprated by 1% in 2014. There has been a reduction in the number of homes that can be rented out at that rate. An analysis by Crisis shows that across Britain, one in 10 local housing allowance rates for 2015-16 is 5% or more lower than the estimated 30th percentile of local rents. Those include 77 rates that have already benefited from an additional increase due to the targeted affordability fund. As was outlined in the Select Committee’s report, analysis by the Institute for Fiscal Studies shows that rent levels did not decline as a result of the cap. In fact, the most recent rental figures show a 1.8% rise across the stock in England and a rise of 2.4% in London. That is well above the recent 1% cap and means that additional properties will fall out of the reach of those on benefit. Private renters should not have to choose between having a roof over their heads and eating, but increasingly that is becoming a daily choice for many people in my constituency. The Government should consider increasing LHA rates by more than 1% annually in more pressured areas. Although the Committee welcomed the introduction of the targeted affordability fund as a means of increasing LHA levels in areas of higher rents, some areas may see rents rising by more than the maximum of 4% a year. The Government should amend the targeted affordability fund so that it can be paid at higher levels in areas where rent increases are greater than 4%. It should also use available rents rather than stock rents as a measure for the rental increase. Rents are currently unaffordable across the private sector. In 2012, the Money Advice Trust stated that rent arrears were the fastest growing debt problem it had encountered and that the number of calls it received on the issue had risen by 37% on the previous year. At the end of 2014, the National Landlords Association reported that almost a third of private landlords had seen arrears that year. There were a record number of evictions of renters across the social and private sector in 2014 as a result of a combination of factors, including the bedroom tax, benefit sanctions, increased numbers renting with the reduced LHA rate, and rising private sector rents. Recent figures from Crisis have also shown that the No. 1 leading cause of homelessness now is eviction from a private tenancy. The figures highlight not just the lack of affordability for renters when having to manage competing living costs, but how unsustainable rising rents will be for the private rented sector without Government intervention. The Government must continue to monitor homelessness levels and take action to mitigate the impact on households and local authorities. The Department for Communities and Local Government reported that rough sleeping increased by 14% in autumn 2014. I am regularly contacted by constituents who tell me that they cannot be housed by their local council because they are not in priority need and that they have no option but to live in overcrowded accommodation with family members or to couch surf, which is code for sleeping on the floor of a friend’s house. If they can be housed, they have been told that their only option is temporary accommodation. In my local area of Bexley, people are often temporarily accommodated in Manchester and Bolton, which means having to uproot their children from school and leave their support networks behind. It always worries me greatly that, while a number of landlords are reputable, a number of others are not. There are private landlords in my constituency who line their pockets while renters struggle to pay their rent. I wrote to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the Treasury in November to ask about the Let Property campaign, which was launched in September 2013 to target the residential property letting market. Specifically, I wanted to know whether it had been successful in closing the tax gap on let properties, but the responses I received were not encouraging. They said it was too early to tell, but one of the figures they did give me was an estimate that the tax gap on letting income was just over £500 million. It is absolutely disgraceful that public money is going to landlords who do not then pay their way or their tax. We need to address that urgently.
2015-03-03b.870.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Eleanor Laing	Order. Before the hon. Lady addresses any further points. She may have been able to count, but she has now spoken for 12 minutes. I trusted her to speak for 10 minutes, so I trust that she is going to wind up very soon.
2015-03-03b.870.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Teresa Pearce	I will finish by saying that I think this is a most urgent issue. I do not usually quote from Conservative manifestos, but the 1951 Conservative manifesto said: “Housing is the first of the social services. It is also one of the keys to increased productivity. Work, family life, health and education are all undermined by overcrowded homes.” That was true then, and it is true now.
2015-03-03b.870.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Chris Heaton-Harris	It is a pleasure to take part in this debate. I am sorry that I missed the first couple of minutes of the speech by the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg) , because she speaks very sensibly on this issue and many Government Members listen to what she has to say about it. I will pick up on a couple of points she made. The hon. Lady has spoken in the past about the amount that we spend on housing benefit. It was a matter of concern to us all that the housing benefit budget seemed to be getting out of control in the run-up to the last general election. In fact, the housing benefit bill was forecast to rise over the current Parliament from £21 billion to more than £26 billion. This Government’s reforms have only pegged back that increase by about £2 billion a year, which, given the potential growth in the budget, is not very much at all. The hon. Lady spoke about how the spare room subsidy has been working in practice. Like the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) , my constituency surgeries were visited by many people when the policy was first mooted, perhaps because they were scared by stories that were being circulated at the time about how it would affect them. There was a general lack of knowledge about discretionary housing payments and what people can receive them for. I am pleased that we were able to help every person who came through the door of my constituency surgery advice centre seeking help in that area, and all received discretionary housing payments. Interestingly, Daventry and District Housing, which serves a huge area of my constituency, saw the policy change coming down the line. It is a good housing association in many ways because it talks to its tenants on a regular basis and gets to know them, and it therefore made sure that they were ready for the change. Most tenants in Daventry and District Housing accommodation knew that the change was coming, and knew that discretionary housing payments were available and how to access them. I sit on the Public Accounts Committee, which discusses these matters—I will mention the report that the hon. Member for Aberdeen South spoke about in moment—and it is fairly obvious that different parts of the country, different housing associations, and different councils have acted in completely different ways over this change. They have probably acted in their best local interests, which is fine, but it has led to different outcomes in various parts of the country that all have remarkably significant and different pressures on them. In one of my first years on the Committee, its Chair, the right hon. Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge) , took us to see a primary school and surrounding housing estate in her constituency. We had been talking about health and housing inequalities, and the trip was to see how primary education was working. I acknowledge that the pressures on housing in Erith and Thamesmead, or in Barking and Dagenham, are completely different to those in my constituency, and that is why local experts and housing associations in that area know their tenants well. The interesting background to this debate concerns an area of spending that was constantly growing and needed to be brought under control—however we paint the picture, the Government’s moneybags were not particularly full when they came to office in May 2010, and although they are a bit better now, there are still tough decisions to be made. Such decisions must be based on fairness—I know that some Opposition Members do not consider this measure to be fair at all—and we must consider how we change a policy that is already enacted for those in the private rental housing sector but not for those in the public rental sector. At this point I should say that I rent out a house. My private property in Lincoln is noted in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests and I rent it to a private sector tenant who to my knowledge is not on any type of benefit. There is a proper debate to be had about this issue, which was started in no uncertain terms by the previous Government. This Government brought forward their proposals with the safety net of discretionary housing payments. I do not want to disagree with the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce) because she will know her local area much better than I will, but perhaps I misheard her. She was talking about warrants for evictions, and perhaps she meant from the private rental sector.
2015-03-03b.871.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Teresa Pearce	indicated assent.
2015-03-03b.872.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Chris Heaton-Harris	She did. I know from Ministry of Justice figures that warrants for evictions for public sector rental tenants were down over the period in question by 6%. An issue in the private rental sector might well need to be addressed, and that is probably in the south-east of the country rather than elsewhere, given the housing pressures that London might have. My concern was the treatment of carers and those who are disabled. As the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley said, it would have been wonderful to exempt everybody from the change, but it was impossible to do so, and therefore discretionary housing payments were introduced. In my experience in my constituency, DHP has been granted for disability and caring in every single case it has been asked for. I pay tribute to Daventry and District Housing, the citizens advice bureau and the local council for the way in which they have dealt with those cases. The patch—I admit that it is a patch, and that I would much rather have seen it done in a much more solid way—seems to work. The extension of the term of DHP seems to have given people a better sense that they will be able to live in their property for a long period. I conclude with comments on the Public Accounts Committee report on universal credit, which was published only a couple of weeks ago, and which the hon. Member for Aberdeen South mentioned. As she outlined, an interesting part of universal credit and one of the benefits that it will eventually wrap in—for many new claimants, that has started—is housing benefit. Housing associations up and down the country have had concerns about how that might affect them and how they will get their rents from tenants. However, the report shows how a change in the Department for Work and Pensions has been introduced—it has been seen as controversial by many, although a universal credit that aims to get as many people as possible into work and to make work pay better than benefits ever will is in fact policy on both sides of the House—how the programme has improved things and how it is now beginning to deliver what it was meant to deliver, and on scale across the country. The report was groundbreaking in many ways. The Public Accounts Committee is very critical of all Departments that come before us where money is spent. We raised some issues, as detailed by the hon. Member for Aberdeen South, but if Members read the report they will see for themselves that we are much more comfortable with how the universal credit programme is going—that it is now delivering on scale and will deliver the savings expected. No matter on which side of the House hon. Members sit, they will welcome it in future, because it does exactly what it says on the tin. The interesting paragraph is paragraph 6. The hon. Lady mentioned the potential problems of paying housing benefit elements of universal credit directly to claimants—the question was whether housing associations and others could maintain their incomes. I know from initial reports that her statistics are correct, but I would like to hear from the Minister, because I am pretty sure that new stats prove that there is not as much of a problem as she says.
2015-03-03b.872.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	rose—
2015-03-03b.872.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Chris Heaton-Harris	I had better sit down and shut up, otherwise I will get the stare from Madam Deputy Speaker, which I never want to receive. Things are improving. We would expect that because when something changes, there is always upset at the beginning. Things are on the right track, but I would like to hear about it from the Minister.
2015-03-03b.873.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Sheila Gilmore	Hon. Members agree that there are serious problems when payments of housing benefit rise so high. We disagree on our analysis of how it came about and what we should do about it. Unless we tackle the underlying issues, we will simply trim the edges, to the detriment of many households and families. As the Office for Budget Responsibility says in its review of spending on benefits and pensions, the main drivers for the increase in housing benefit are increases in rents and the number of people on low wages who have to claim housing benefit to make ends meet. The OBR was concerned that those two things would continue to be drivers in the coming decade unless action was taken. There is very little—I would say virtually nothing—in the steps that the Government have taken since 2010 to tackle those problems. Indeed, they may have made them worse. We were told by Ministers during the passage of the Welfare Reform Bill that the private rented sector had become so intrinsically dependent on the housing benefit market that rents would fall as a result of the changes. Rents have not fallen. In many places, they have risen considerably above inflation. That is certainly true in my city, in the city represented by the Chair of the Select Committee and in London. The DWP accepts that this is the case. For the private rented sector, it has introduced additional payments in some areas to top up the local housing allowance—after it previously made reductions—because it accepts there is a growing gap between the actual rents available to people who want to rent and need housing benefit, and the payments they would otherwise receive. The promises that rent would fall as a result of the policy have not come about. I hope that in looking to see what savings are supposed to have been made, those additional payments will be factored in. We are repeatedly told that this policy is about saving money. I think the Minister from a sedentary position said, “Oh, it’s about £1 million a day,” but that was based on the Government’s original statement that the policy would save about £500 million a year. Other experts said, at a very early date, that it would be lucky to be somewhere nearer £350 million, and that does not take into account the very high cost of discretionary housing payments, which are a cost to Government and so detract from any savings made. It is therefore not correct for the Government to say what they say. For individuals, households and families, the impact is extremely serious. This is not the same, as is often said, as what happened previously in the private rented sector, dating back to about 1998 when size was taken into account. This is an impost on people now, whether they can move or not and whether there is anywhere for them to move to or not. One of the amendments tabled during the course of the Welfare Reform Bill by the Opposition—it was followed up through the House of Lords and incorporated into a private Member’s Bill that was not allowed to progress in this House recently—proposed that if people were offered a suitable alternative house and did not take it, then the cut in their benefit could apply. For many people, however, that just is not practical. I have just checked yet again, as I do constantly, the number of houses available for social rent in my city. This week, there were 54 in the whole city. Of those, 31 were one-bedroom, but eight were sheltered. The people affected by the bedroom tax are by definition under pension and retirement age, and so would not qualify for those eight.
2015-03-03b.874.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Debbie Abrahams	That is not just the case in my hon. Friend’s city. In Oldham in my constituency, 2,048 people are affected by the bedroom tax and there are only 50 properties for them to move into.
2015-03-03b.874.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Sheila Gilmore	I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. In Scotland, the priority given to people who are homeless—a much wider definition of homelessness has been adopted by the Scottish Government—means that there is real competition for smaller houses. The majority of people who present as homeless are single people, so they too need the small houses that other people are trying to fit into.
2015-03-03b.874.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	I refer the hon. Lady to the answer that the then housing Minister, the late Malcolm Wicks, gave to a question from the hon. Member for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) in Hansard in 2004: “We hope to implement a flat rate housing benefit system in the social sector, similar to that anticipated in the private rented sector to enable people in that sector to benefit from the choice and flexibility that the reforms can provide.”—[ Official Report , 19 January 2004; Vol. 416, c. 1075W .] If he said that then, why is it now such a bad idea?
2015-03-03b.874.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Sheila Gilmore	It is interesting that the flat-rate housing allowance for the private rented sector should be raised. What the hon. Gentleman mentions was discussed as a possibility during the Labour Government. I was very much involved in housing, as the convenor of a housing committee in my council, and I remember that being discussed, but it was not implemented and there was a lot of opposition to the idea of doing that for the social rented sector, for all sorts of reasons. However, what the bedroom tax does is immediately say to people, whether they can move or not and whatever their circumstances are: “You may have to pay this extra money.” To argue that discretionary housing payments are sufficient is not good enough. Even in Scotland, where the Scottish Government eventually agreed that extra money for the discretionary housing pot should kick in, there are still people who either do not know about making a claim or make a claim and do not get it, and who have to keep making claims. What the Select Committee said—I do not think this was unreasonable; we are a cross-party Committee—was that if we take the view that disabled people who have substantially adapted houses will receive long-term discretionary housing payments, which is what is always said, it would be simpler to exempt them. It would be administratively simpler, because there must be administrative costs in taking forms from people, processing them and working out whether they are still eligible. I do not think that was an unreasonable proposition. As the Government have taken so long to read our report—presumably considering it and working out whether it is workable—I hope that the Minister will stand up today and tell us that they have accepted that reasonable proposition. If he did that, we would all be extremely glad. I want briefly to say something about the housing benefit cap. If a lot of people—this was the evidence to our Committee—are in temporary accommodation, it is utterly unreasonable to stop their benefit suddenly because they find themselves in that position. The Government are fond of saying that, as a result of the cap, people have moved out of temporary accommodation, but I suggest that it is likely that they are moving from temporary accommodation to permanent accommodation. There is a movement of people in and out of the scope of the household benefit cap, but the amount that some people are losing is very significant indeed. Again, I fear that the legislation was more symbolic than something that seriously addressed the underlying issues. If we have a lot of people receiving high amounts of benefits overall—because, for example, they are living in very expensive temporary accommodation—we need to build more affordable houses. This is an issue north and south of the border. The Scottish Government have not been building sufficient low-cost affordable homes. The number completed in my city last year was the same as it was in 2007, which was the year that the current Scottish Administration took office. They have not been building low-rent affordable homes at an increased rate, even though they may sometimes try to say that they are. Without those homes, people will be paying excessive rents in the private rented sector, and not just in temporary accommodation. That is the issue we need to tackle.
2015-03-03b.875.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Helen Goodman	I begin by congratulating the Select Committee, in particular the Chair, on an excellent and extremely useful report. It is a thoughtful and well-informed cross-party report, so I hope that the Minister will be able to explain why, after a whole year, the Government have not been able to respond to it. As the report points out, the Government set themselves three targets for their welfare reform programme and changes to housing benefit: reducing benefit expenditure, improving incentives to work and making the situation fairer. It is quite clear that the first test has been failed. The Office for Budget Responsibility shows that expenditure on housing benefit in 2009-10 was £20 billion. In 2013-14, the last year for which we have full statistics, it was £24 billion; and the OBR is predicting that by 2018-19, the spend will be £27 billion. I was particularly struck by the table at the beginning of chapter 2 on the local housing allowance, which sets out the maximum amounts payable. For a one-bedroom flat or shared accommodation, the maximum amount payable is £250 a week. Everybody here will know, however, that a £1,000 monthly payment sustains a mortgage of £200,000. In my constituency, that would buy a four-bedroom house. The average cost of a new social housing unit is £120,000. How much better it would be if we could shift the finance from benefits to bricks and spend the money on building new homes. The problem with this Government’s policy is that it has made life more difficult for many people, while the benefits bill has continued to rise. As my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) said, that has happened because the Government have not addressed the underlying issues. The OBR shows that while housing benefit to unemployed people has fallen and is projected to continue to fall, housing benefit to those in work will rise steadily between 2012 and 2019. This is yet another indication of the cost of living crisis that people face, and it demonstrates that the new poverty is in-work poverty. The Select Committee quotes Lord Freud as saying that the case load in the private rented sector is up “by around 8% nationally and by around 5% in London”. That is because rents are going up, even though the quality of housing is going down. I hope the Minister will be able to clarify the position on rents, since the Select Committee reported before the Office for National Statistics admitted that mistakes were made in the assessment of rents in London. In other words, more people are in the private rented sector today, and more of them are on housing benefit.
2015-03-03b.876.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	I am aware of the proposal to transfer housing benefit money to local authorities with a view to building more properties. Let me ask this: what pays the rent of the people who are already in tenanted accommodation while the new properties are being built with that money?
2015-03-03b.876.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Helen Goodman	That, of course, is the great conundrum. I hope to come on to demonstrate to the hon. Gentleman how the Government have intensified the housing crisis rather than eased it by bringing about the happy day when we have enough homes. What is happening is that people are renting because they cannot afford to buy, and they cannot afford to buy because house prices are rising faster than they can save. Today, the average house price is eight times the average income. Under this Government, we have had record lows for house building, which is now down at 1920s levels, as well as record lows for home ownership. No action has been taken to protect people from rip-off rent rises. That is why the Labour Opposition propose to address these problems, give security to renters and build five times as many homes as the Prime Minister promised yesterday. It is equally clear that something needs to be done about raising low incomes. I shall not detain the House with our proposals to strengthen the minimum wage, but it is absolutely clear that that is part of the equation. The Select Committee made a number of sharp criticisms of the bedroom tax, which was described as “a blunt instrument”. It said that its effect was particularly harsh in rural areas, which is true. If people in rural areas have to move, they have to move a long way out of the community in which their children might be going to school. The Select Committee pointed out that the impact is worst in the north-east, the north-west, Yorkshire and Humberside. It said that people in social housing often have no real choice when it comes to which accommodation they rent. It also said that the Department for Work and Pensions has adopted a much tighter definition of space than the one used by the Department for Communities and Local Government. It would be helpful if the Minister could explain that as well. However, what worries the Committee most is the impact on people with disabilities. We know that two thirds of those affected are disabled themselves or have a disabled family member. The Committee says that people are being pushed out of their homes when public money has already been spent on adapting them, and its Chair, my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg) , made that point today. The criticism is justified. In answer to a parliamentary question, the Department for Communities and Local Government informed me that in 2013-14, local authorities had adapted 42,000 properties and provided an average grant of £4,227. The Department also said that the Government would spend £1 billion on adapting properties between 2011-12 and 2015-16. That is commendable, but the Government’s investment in disabled people’s living space is being undermined by the bedroom tax, because they are now being pushed out of those homes. The policy is hitting an estimated 100,000 people whose homes in the social sector have been adapted. That is disrupting lives and driving hardship, and it is a prime example of welfare waste. The Committee recommends the abolition of the bedroom tax in cases in which people have adapted their homes or are receiving the higher level of disability living allowance or personal independence payments, and the Opposition wholly support that recommendation. The Committee also refers to the impact of the bedroom tax on carers, 60,000 of whom who have been very badly hit. It recommends that those who cannot share a room with a disabled partner, or who live in adapted homes, should be exempted from the tax. It also points out that carers are particularly badly affected by the benefit cap. I cannot help thinking that that is extremely unfair, because carers are doing the socially responsible thing. The Committee estimates that the free care that they offer is saving taxpayers £18,000 a year per person. The bedroom tax comprehensively fails the fairness test that the Government set themselves, and hits those who, through no fault of their own and through force of circumstance, cannot go out to work, so it is not meeting the “incentives to work” criterion either. That is why the Opposition are pledged to abolish it. In most areas, people have not been able to move to smaller accommodation because of a shortage of smaller units and because of pre-existing waiting lists. The Government knew that when they introduced the bedroom tax, which is why they were able to forecast savings. That shows what a deeply cynical measure this has been. The Committee also points out that the diversion of resources to dealing with the bedroom tax has involved a great deal of time, energy and expenditure on the part of the housing associations. It says that, according to the National Housing Federation, the costs associated with communicating with tenants, supporting them and tackling rent arrears will be equivalent to the amount that could be spent on building 17,500 new properties every year. That is why I say to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) that this is a perverse policy. It is a perverse diversion of resources from tackling the housing crisis to punishing the most vulnerable members of society. It is in fact another example of Tory welfare waste. This is before we even get on to the fact that if this Government are re-elected the average bill for a family, in terms of the bedroom tax, will be £3,800 over the lifetime of the Parliament, and we know from the Government’s own statistics that a further 1 million people will be caught in the net of the bedroom tax and 6.5 million people are at risk of having to pay it. The fact is that the Select Committee—an all-party Committee—recommended significant changes to the bedroom tax. The Government have failed to respond. People are looking forward to the general election when they can have a Labour Government who will abolish the bedroom tax.
2015-03-03b.878.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Mark Harper	I will try to respond to the points raised in the debate but I will also endeavour to stick to your strictures, Madam Deputy Speaker, to keep my remarks relatively brief so that the House also has time for the second important debate today. I will do my best to balance the two competing tensions. First, I will respond to the point made by the Committee Chairman, the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg) , about the lack of a response. The Government have the greatest respect for the parliamentary process and engage with the Select Committee. She will know that, with the exception of this report, no response by my Department has taken longer than six months, but I fear that there is a very simple and straightforward answer as to the reason for the delay and I am afraid it will not mean an early response. The Committee report spends quite a bit of time talking about the removal of the spare room subsidy—as we have done today—and the Government response responds to the various points made. As the hon. Lady will know, we have a coalition Government—something I hope will not be necessary after the election—and that, despite our coalition partners having agreed on this policy all the way through the Parliament, they now towards the end of it do not agree. Unfortunately therefore, despite the fact that the response is broadly ready to go, we have not been able to secure agreement across the Government. I am afraid harmony has not broken out and, until it does, the Government will not be able to respond to the Committee. I am probably just as disappointed about that as the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce) .
2015-03-03b.878.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Anne Begg	While I can appreciate there may be problems on the bedroom tax, would it be possible for the Government to publish a partial response to our proposals, addressing all the other points on which there presumably is agreement across Government? Our Committee had a lot of very interesting things to say on a whole range of other issues.
2015-03-03b.878.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Mark Harper	That is an interesting point. Let me take it away and see whether it is possible to do that in the time remaining. I have explained the reason for the lack of response to the Committee and, as I have said, it is the only report from the Select Committee that the Department has not responded to within six months. I am sorry about that, but the blame does not lie with the Conservatives in the Government; it lies elsewhere. [Laughter.] I am just being honest here at the Dispatch Box.
2015-03-03b.879.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	I think the Minister accepts that the Liberal Democrats believe there should be automatic exemptions for some of the people currently receiving discretionary housing payment, and does he not accept that if we automatically exempt people who are currently getting DHP the net effect on the public purse is zero?
2015-03-03b.879.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Mark Harper	No, I do not, and I just remind the hon. Gentleman that the Liberal Democrats agreed to this policy and it remains the Government policy. I am sorry they have not stuck to it because I think it is a very sound policy. Let me set out why. I was not going to spend a lot of time on this because the Committee did not, but I am afraid that the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) made a lot of rather ridiculous assertions about welfare spending and I must take her to task on them. Being accused by the Labour party of wasting money on welfare is extraordinarily rich. The last Government increased spending on the welfare budget by 60%, costing every household an extra £3,000. The increase in welfare spending over this Parliament is going to be the lowest since the creation of the welfare state, and we will have made cumulative welfare reform savings of nearly £50,000 million over this Parliament, benefiting people across the country. In-work spending is stable and forecast to fall next year, even with employment at a record high. The out-of-work benefit bill is back to pre-recession levels, at 2.2% of GDP, and real spending on housing benefit fell between 2012-13 and 2013-14, for the first time in a decade. The overall case load has fallen, and housing benefit reforms have saved more than £6 billion during this Parliament, compared with what would have happened if we had continued with the policies of the Labour party. So I am afraid that the hon. Lady needs to go back and look at the record. If she does so, she will see which party has wasted money on welfare—and it is not the party of which I am a member. She needs to look in the mirror before she makes those kinds of silly accusations.
2015-03-03b.879.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Helen Goodman	I should like to draw the Minister’s attention to the numbers provided by the Office for Budget Responsibility, which show total welfare spending in 2012-13 of £213 billion, and in 2015-16 of £219 billion. All the numbers that I quoted to the Minister were OBR numbers.
2015-03-03b.879.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Mark Harper	I am not resiling from the numbers. Welfare spending has gone up over this Parliament, but it has done so at the lowest rate since the creation of the welfare state. The reforms that we have made to various welfare policies will have saved £50 billion over this Parliament compared with what would have happened if we had not made those reforms, and I think that that is sensible. We have dealt with some of the issues that we inherited from the Labour party, and our changes are largely supported by the public. One such change is the benefit cap, and public support for that is very clear. The Opposition are not so enthusiastic about it, but 73% of the public support it and 77% of them agree that it is fair that no out-of-work household should get more than the average working household. In terms of fairness, that seems a pretty unremarkable policy, and it is one that we support even if the Labour party is unenthusiastic about it. Our reforms to housing benefit, including the removal of the spare room subsidy, are dealing with some of the issues relating to using the housing stock more efficiently and dealing with overcrowding. My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) drew our attention to overcrowding, and to the fact that not all local authorities are good at dealing with situations in which smaller families want to move to a smaller property while other properties are overcrowded. He made a sensible point.
2015-03-03b.880.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	John Hemming	I tried to intervene on the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) to ask her whether Labour would reduce under-occupation by adopting a policy that involved evicting people living in under-occupied accommodation. Does the Minister accept that if we do not remove the spare room subsidy, the only alternative open to Labour if it wanted to reduce under-occupation would be to go round evicting people from under-occupied properties, which does happen in certain tenancies?
2015-03-03b.880.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Mark Harper	The Opposition clearly do not have a sensible policy. I will comment on this briefly, because I want to move on to address some of the points made by the Chairman of the Committee and others. Labour’s policy to remove the removal of the spare room subsidy would cost about £0.5 billion a year. The Opposition have set out three ways in which they would pay for that, and when we had an Opposition day debate in December, I went through them in some detail to demonstrate that they simply would not work. They say that their proposal to ensure that the building trade paid its fair share of tax would raise £380 million, but we have already dealt with those changes in the 2013 autumn statement, so that policy would raise no money. Their proposed change to the stamp duty reserve tax, which they characterise as a tax cut for hedge funds, would actually fall on pension funds and retail investors—in other words, on people who are saving for their retirement. Their third proposal is to end the employee shareholder scheme, but that would save no money in 2015-16. The shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) , has said that the first thing she will do when she walks into the Department for Work and Pensions as Secretary of State will be to change our policy on the removal of the spare room subsidy. If she did so, however, she would have to find £0.5 billion to pay for it and at the moment she has not set out how she is going to do that. The first thing her officials are going to say to her is, “Secretary of State, where are you going to find half a billion pounds?” Labour is unable to answer that question at the moment. Hon. Members also referred to universal credit, with my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) , an experienced member of the Public Accounts Committee, being very supportive of that. He asked me a specific question, picking up on a point made by the Select Committee Chair; this was about rent arrears, with reference being made to a specific set of pilots. My understanding is that the difference was that for direct payments, where the money was being paid to the landlord directly, 99.1% of rent owed was paid, but the figure fell to 95.5% where people were managing the payments themselves. Over time, however, the impact of direct payments lessened significantly; half the arrears occurred in the first month, and by the 18th payment the figure for tenants who were being given the money and making those rent payments had risen to 99%, which is more or less the same as for direct payments to landlords. That is important, because a key point of universal credit is about putting households on out-of-work universal credit in the same position as they will be in when they are in work: taking responsibility for paying the rent themselves. I listened carefully to what the hon. Lady said, because she made the comparison with the position in the private sector, where that is already the case, and then referred to the fact that in the social rented sector it was a change. It is a change, but the vast majority of the people who rent properties in the social rented sector are perfectly capable of managing their money, being given responsibility for it and paying their rent, just like everybody else. Some people will need some budgeting support and some support to move from the position they are in now to taking that responsibility, and that support is going to be delivered through our universal credit support delivered locally. A small minority of claimants may be unable to do that, and we have put in place alternative payment arrangements for them. That approach has been developed as we have rolled out universal credit carefully without our “test and learn” approach. She will know that we have also put regulations in place to enable us to share with social housing landlords the fact that someone is in receipt of, or has made a claim for, universal credit, so that they are able to put in place the appropriate support for vulnerable tenants. A number of Members also referred, in the context of the removal of the spare room subsidy, to the amount of discretionary housing payment. That is one area where we are able to deal with some of the specific issues, for example, on significantly adapted accommodation. A specific amount of the discretionary housing payment, about £25 million, is specifically for local authorities to enable people to stay in adapted accommodation. Of course, where properties have been specifically adapted for tenants with mobility needs, it does not make sense to insist that they move. That is exactly why we have made the money available to enable councils to deal with that, and I trust local authorities to make those sensible decisions. They have the facts at their disposal, will know the circumstances of people locally, will know the facts about the disabled adaptation grant that has been paid and are in the best position to make those decisions locally. I believe in localism and in trusting local authorities to make the decisions. Sometimes they might make decisions that people will characterise as wrong, but I am prepared to trust them to make sensible decisions. On the availability of properties, it is also worth saying that in the social rented sector there are 1.4 million one-bedroom properties, with more than 130,000 new lets a year. So there is a significant amount of turnover; about 10% of the one-bedroom properties turn over each year. So if social landlords are properly managing and prioritising their housing stock, that should enable them, over a period, to enable people to move into smaller properties. Some 60% of social sector tenants are either single people or childless couples and require only one bedroom. Landlords are starting to respond to that, and we are seeing local authorities and housing associations now properly designing their housing stock to meet the demographic need of their potential tenants.
2015-03-03b.882.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Helen Goodman	On a point of clarification, were those overall numbers that the Minister was quoting to the House inclusive of old age pensioners or not?
2015-03-03b.882.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Mark Harper	Those were 1.4 million one-bedroom properties across the social rented sector, with 130,000 new lets. I think that that is the total number of properties that are available.
2015-03-03b.882.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Mark Spencer	I know that the Minister is very busy in his Department and in the Forest of Dean, but I was wondering whether he would join me on Friday when I will be cutting the ribbon on some new properties built by Newark and Sherwood Homes in the village of Bilsthorpe. If he were able to come, I would be more than happy to let him take the scissors off me. If not, perhaps he could praise Newark and Sherwood Homes for the work it is doing in developing new homes in Sherwood and Newark.
2015-03-03b.882.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System)	Mark Harper	I will have to stick to praising Newark and Sherwood Homes, and to allow my hon. Friend to retain control of the scissors, which he is more than capable of doing, so that he can open that new development on Friday. I am afraid that, at this point in the parliamentary cycle, one’s diary is quite full. If we look at the affordable homes programme, 77% of approved homes are one and two-bedroom properties, which is up from 68% in the last round. New house building is now following that approach. Finally, let me turn to the point about local housing allowance raised by the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead and others. The allowance was intended to exert a downward pressure on rents. That means not necessarily that rents will go down but that the pressure on rents will be less than it otherwise would have been. In other words, it might mean that rents do not rise as much as they would otherwise have done. The hon. Lady specifically asked about parts of the country where the pressure is higher. As she said, there is something called targeted affordability funding, which means that where rents are significantly diverging from benefit rates, we have increased LHA rates by up to 4%, which is, I think, the right approach. I will conclude now as I am conscious of the time. I have set out for the Chair of the Committee the reasons why we have not responded to the report, and I have addressed a number of concerns, which was a challenge given the amount of time that I had. Our policies are working. They have driven the lowest rise in the welfare bill since the creation of the welfare state, and they are also helping to get people back into work, which is why we are seeing a record number of men and women across the country in work, and that demonstrates the success of our long-term economic plan. Question deferred ( Standing Order No. 54 ).
2015-03-03b.883.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Sarah Wollaston	It is a pleasure to open this debate on our report into child and adolescent mental health services. For the record, I am married to a full-time NHS adult forensic psychiatrist who is also the chair of the Westminster Parliamentary Liaison Committee for the Royal College of Psychiatrists. I thank the many organisations and individuals who have contributed to our report, my fellow Committee members and also the Clerk of our Committee, David Lloyd for his exemplary leadership and work over the course of this Parliament. May I start by setting the scene? This report was launched in part because of the number of children and young people who were being admitted to hospitals many hundreds of miles from home when they were in mental health crisis and needing the highest level of support. During the course of our inquiry, we identified serious and deeply ingrained problems with the commissioning and provision of child and adolescent mental health services, and we found that they ran throughout the whole system from prevention and early intervention services to in-patient services for the most vulnerable children and young people. We welcomed the setting up by the Government of the Children and Young People’s Mental Health and Wellbeing Taskforce, and many of our recommendations were directed at that taskforce. I am sorry that it has not yet reported, but I understand that it is to report very shortly, and we look forward to seeing its recommendations. The taskforce knows that it is a matter not just of tweaking the CAMHS system but of fundamental change. I hope that it will clearly set out how that will be implemented. We have legislated for parity of esteem, we have written it into the NHS Mandate, but all that counts for nothing if it does not translate into better services for children and young people. The key recommendation in our report is about the importance of prevention and early intervention. However, services cannot be planned without knowing the extent of the problem. It is a matter of great regret that the five-yearly prevalence survey was cancelled under the previous Government. That means that our data are 10 years out of date. I very much welcome the reinstatement of that survey. In his response, will the Minister give further details of the extent? I know that he has already announced that the funding has been identified, but many professionals are waiting to hear further detail about exactly what will be included. That would be very welcome. While we wait for the prevalence data to appear—it would be nice to hear the expected time frame in which we will hear the results—we all acknowledge that there has been an alarming rise in the level of distress and need reported by all those who work in the field, including those in the voluntary sector, in teaching and in CAMHS. There are unprecedented levels of demand at a time when, unfortunately, 60% of local authorities that responded to a survey from YoungMinds report cuts or a freeze in their CAMHS budget. That is where the front line of prevention should be. The compelling evidence that we heard throughout our report was that early intervention prevents children from presenting when they have become more unwell, so that is where we need to focus our resources. Clearly, the Government were right and everybody welcomes the investment in 50 extra beds in the areas of greatest need—some of which are in my area—but it costs around £25,000 a month for a child or young person to be treated in an in-patient setting. For every young person who is in one of those beds, we have to ask whether they would have needed to be admitted to hospital in the first place had those resources been properly directed to prevention services. We need double running. If we just keep investing in in-patient beds at the expense of prevention, we will fill those beds and there will be a demand for more. I hope the Minister will recognise the need for double running so that we focus relentlessly on prevention and early intervention. As he will know, if we are looking at in-patients and admissions, the very last place that any young person should be at a time of mental health crisis is in a police cell. I pay tribute to all those who, over a number of years, have campaigned on that. The problem is not new. I am one of the few MPs—or perhaps not so few—who has been inside a police cell at night, because for many years I was a forensic medical examiner. It was always profoundly shocking to think that children as young as 12 or 13 across the west country were being taken into police cells under section 136 of the Mental Health Act 1983—an horrific experience. It is sometimes an individual case that finally brings an unacceptable practice to an end. I pay tribute to Assistant Chief Constable Paul Netherton of Devon and Cornwall police for highlighting the awful case in Torbay of a child who was detained in a police cell, and I pay tribute to Chief Constable Shaun Sawyer because they have taken steps to bring the practice to an end. Although as a Committee we called for this to be a “never event” within the NHS, in effect the procedures that will be put in place will be equivalent. Finally, on this Government’s watch, we will see this unacceptable practice coming to an end. That is long overdue and very welcome. In focusing on the need to keep that timely support for children and young people, I also hope that the taskforce will set out what can be done to address some of the perverse financial incentives in children and young people’s mental health services. For example, a child who is admitted to hospital no longer has to be funded by the clinical commissioning group—in other words, they are handed over to specialist commissioning— creating all sorts of inappropriate decision making in the system. It also means that children are more likely to be readmitted because there are no step-down services. Therefore, a focus on active intervention to try to prevent that admission and keep children at home is very important. I also look forward to hearing the taskforce’s recommendations on how that can be done consistently across the country, because another issue we raised was the extent of variation in practice. I will now turn my attention to volunteers. If we are to retain a focus on the earliest intervention and prevention, we have to recognise the value of our volunteers. I would like to pay tribute to a number of volunteers in my constituency. I am a patron of Cool Recovery, a charity that provides mental health support to carers and those affected by mental health problemsacross south Devon. There are many such organisations working directly with young people. Representatives from Spiritulized, which supports young people in Kingsbridge, recently came to Parliament after being shortlisted for an award for the work it is doing in mental health first aid out in the community. In Brixham there is the Youth Genesis Trust and volunteers from The Edge. Work is also being done in schools. Representatives from South Devon college, which is based in my constituency, recently came to Parliament after it received an award for its work in student well-being and prevention of mental health problems. Those organisations are reporting that both the demand for their services and the level of complexity have never been greater. Part of the reason for that, as the Minister will know, is the increasing waiting times for CAMHS. That means more young people are becoming much more unwell before being seen in the CAMHS setting. I hope that in his response he will be able to say exactly how we can balance that across the whole system. I very much welcome the investment in services for eating disorders and self-harm and early interventions in psychosis, and of course the Improving Access to Psychological Therapies programme. However, as he will know, fundamentally the issue comes down to funding. We will never achieve parity of esteem for mental health unless we address the funding inequality, with 6% of the mental health budget going to services for children and young people, and that budget itself is an inappropriately small slice of the overall funding pot for the NHS. How will we actually drive change in increasing funding?
2015-03-03b.885.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Norman Lamb	I agree with everything my hon. Friend has said and very much welcome her Committee’s report. I agree on the need to address the funding issue. In particular, it is critical that we achieve what I call an equilibrium of rights to access between mental and physical health in order to address the awful problem on waiting times, and that must include children’s mental health services.
2015-03-03b.885.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Sarah Wollaston	I thank the Minister for that intervention. It is very welcome that we now have waiting time targets as a right for people with mental health problems, alongside those for people with physical health problems, but the challenge is not so much about the budget for children and young people’s mental health services, but what we take that from, because there are no areas of slack in the mental health budget, as he will know. I think that the mental health budget overall must achieve some parity. Again, if we look at prevention and the really small amounts of money, in relative terms, that are required to keep excellent voluntary services running in our communities, we see that it would be the greatest waste and tragedy to lose those vital services in our communities for the want of what are really quite small sums. When children, young people and voluntary services came to give evidence to our inquiry, we heard time and again that what they need is stable, long-term funding. They do not require a great deal of money, but they are currently limping from one short-term budget to another. Another issue raised was that if funding is available, it often gets directed to a new start-up project, not towards a project in the same community that may have proven value.
2015-03-03b.886.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Robert Flello	The hon. Lady is no doubt aware that some of the small, really good charities will find that a bigger charity that is very good at filling in application forms will get the funding and then subcontract the work back to the small charity that was doing it before, having taken a cut of the funding as well.
2015-03-03b.886.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Sarah Wollaston	I absolutely agree. The other problem is that sometimes those larger national charities may have no local presence or understanding. We need greater flexibility so that commissioners within health and local authorities are able to provide stable, long-term funding and to set the priorities for these new pots of money. It is always easy to announce new projects, but we must allow funding to be directed at existing services that have a fantastic proven track record. The value for money that we get from these services is extraordinary, as is the value that young people place on them. Young people have told me—this applies particularly to a rural constituency such as mine—that it is no good having a CAMHS service in a neighbouring town if they cannot get to it because there is no transport. That is why voluntary services are so particularly valued. I was going to discuss our comments on schools, but my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) , as a former teacher, is far better placed to talk about that, so I will leave it to him to elaborate. I just want to touch on the new challenges that young people face with cyber-bullying, sexting, and image sharing. This is a 24-hour pressure; there is no safe haven for them in these circumstances. I welcome the fact that the taskforce will comment on not only the challenges but the opportunities that the internet may give us to assist young people.
2015-03-03b.886.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Oliver Heald	My hon. Friend is making some important remarks, as has her Committee. Somebody who suffers from a condition such as depression or anxiety, and has already been taught coping techniques, often finds it helpful to have a mentor. Perhaps apps, mobile phones or the like could reinforce those coping techniques at times when life seems difficult. That is an important part of the picture.
2015-03-03b.886.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Sarah Wollaston	I thank my hon. and learned Friend. In using the internet, one of the challenges is how to know which of the sometimes thousands of resources that will pop up as a result of a search are valuable and to be trusted. It would be useful to have a mechanism for directing people to those that have the best evidence base behind them, and have been rated by young people as being the most helpful. While these kinds of resources may be welcomed by some people, they will not be the most appropriate for everybody. We need to have choice and a range of resources. That also applies to IAPT—improving access to psychological therapies. Cognitive behavioural therapy has an evidence base behind it, but it does not necessarily work for everybody. Those who do not find CBT helpful must have other avenues they can go down, including longer-term support where that is appropriate. In closing, I draw the Minister’s attention to another area of early intervention—perhaps the earliest of all. Does he have any encouraging points to make on the provision of perinatal mental health services? I look forward to his response.
2015-03-03b.887.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Paul Blomfield	It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) , whose very thoughtful and incisive speech drew on both her own rich experience and the Select Committee’s excellent report. In the September recess each year, I organise a series of consultation meetings across my constituency. The one I enjoy most is that with young people. It is organised with a range of youth groups, such as Members of the Youth Parliament, and brings together a good number of young people aged from 18 to their early 20s. It is really sparky and lively, and they pull no punches in raising issues. When I ask them what are the top priorities that I, as their Member of Parliament, ought to take up on their behalf, it has been very striking just how high mental provision has come in the past couple of years. That would not have been the case when I was young. The fact that young people themselves put such a high priority on mental health as an issue should send us a very clear warning signal. That does not only apply in Sheffield. Following ballots of tens of thousands of young people across the country, the Youth Parliament has made mental health one of its two priority campaigns this year. If it is so important for young people and they are pressing us on the issue, we should be deeply concerned. In advance of today’s debate, I have been in contact with three of the groups I work with in Sheffield: CHILYPEP —the Children and Young People’s Empowerment Project; Young Healthwatch; and STAMP—Support, Think, Act, Motivate, Participate—which is a group of 14 to 25-year-olds who have come together with the specific objective of improving mental health support for other young people. They are concerned about the current state of provision, or what they would describe as the lack of provision, and they fear for the future and the impact of cuts on an already desperately inadequate service. The groups have identified three key problems. The first is that reductions in funding are taking place at a time of increasing need. The second, which very much echoes the points made by the hon. Lady and the report, is about the lack of early intervention. The STAMP young people’s manifesto states: “Act now, tomorrow could be too late!” That indicates the severity of what we are talking about. The third is that young people are abandoned at 16.
2015-03-03b.888.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Jim Cunningham	On the issue of resources, budget cuts have been inflicted on local authorities, such as Coventry. Some of them have had to find about £3 million or £4 million, which is an extra burden. The Government hope that local authorities can somehow resolve that situation, and then they wonder why they have problems with young people.
2015-03-03b.888.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Paul Blomfield	My hon. Friend makes a very important point. Such a matter is close to my heart in Sheffield, where funding from central Government will halve over the lifetime of this Parliament. That is putting an enormous strain on all the related services and support for young people that can play a broader role in alleviating some of the difficulties. In Sheffield, we are very conscious that our position is in sharp contrast to that in wealthier parts of the country. The first point is about cuts at a time of increasing need. We know that budget cuts to front-line services are difficult and can be devastating at any time, but cuts to child and adolescent mental health services are being made at a time of increasing need. From 2011-12 to 2013-14, Sheffield CAMHS saw a 36% increase in referrals, and a 57% increase in initial appointments. If we are serious about reducing stigma, talking openly about mental health problems—we have made enormous advances in doing that—and having parity of esteem, we should welcome those referrals. However, that demand comes against the background of what has effectively been a 4% budget cut, disguised as a requirement to drive efficiency savings. That has had severe consequences for the level of support that young people are receiving. There has been a stark increase in waiting times.
2015-03-03b.888.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Grahame Morris	It is certainly true that councils are faced with really tough decisions, given the 40% cuts to local government budgets. My understanding is that within the overall mental health budget of £14 billion, only £0.8 billion goes on child and adolescent mental health services. That seems to be a disproportionately small sum of money, given the scale of the problem.
2015-03-03b.888.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Paul Blomfield	My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. It is a relatively small sum of money. Perhaps that indicates that a relatively small level of resource intervention could make a significant difference. As I was saying, the consequence of the rising demand and falling resource in Sheffield is that some 18% of young people—almost one in five—wait over 13 weeks for treatment. The cuts not only impact on young people up to the age of 17, but have a knock-on effect on adult mental health services and on acute and emergency provision.
2015-03-03b.888.4	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Robert Flello	Although demand is rising, there is still a current of demand that does not even present itself. There is a huge level of unmet demand, simply because people do not present themselves to systems such as CAMHS, but try to self-medicate or whatever.
2015-03-03b.889.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Paul Blomfield	I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. While on one level we have seen enormous progress in the openness with which we confront mental health issues and the willingness of people to come forward, we must be deeply conscious that there is still a wider problem of people who do not present. The absence of resource and the inability of the system to support people with needs when they do seek help sends out a powerful message, because young people are very well networked. Those who might be on the tipping point of coming forward to seek help will get the message from their friends, “What’s the point, because you have to wait so long?” That is an important point. That brings me to the second point that young people raise with me, which is the importance of early intervention. Again, that was emphasised by the hon. Member for Totnes. In the words of STAMP: “Act now, tomorrow could be too late!” I want to share the harrowing words of one 18-year-old young woman who is involved in the STAMP project in Sheffield: “Sometimes I think, do I have to kill myself to get help? I probably do. It happens all the time. People are desperate for help, the only way they can get it is if they are at harm, so people harm themselves or attempt suicide just to get put on another waiting list. It just shouldn't be like that.” She is right; it clearly should not be like that. Nobody should have to reach crisis point before receiving the support and care that they need, and certainly not our young people. At a time of increasing need, we need to look at how we can do more with less money. Early intervention is a way of doing that. The hon. Member for Totnes made that point powerfully.
2015-03-03b.889.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Robert Flello	I appreciate my hon. Friend’s speech very much. He has put a thought in my mind about a point that the hon. Member for Totnes also raised about early intervention. Given that the cuts to other local authority front-line services have been worse than decimated in places such as Stoke-on-Trent, those services that would have been early intervention-type services—and, indeed, pre-early intervention services—are just not there any more.
2015-03-03b.889.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Paul Blomfield	I thank my hon. Friend for making that powerful point. The situation in Stoke, Sheffield and Coventry underlines his point that there used to be a hinterland beyond the NHS of youth groups, activities and support networks, many of which were supported by local government funding in combination with funding that was often raised within communities. The withdrawal of that funding, as local authorities have increasingly had to focus on statutory services, has put many of those groups at a tipping point and left the support that is available very weak. The third point that young people have made to me is about being abandoned at 16. Historically, CAMHS in Sheffield have worked with people up to the age of 16, leaving those beyond that age—before they turn 18 and become part of adult provision—to fall through a hole. Things looked a bit brighter for 16 and 17-year-olds when the clinical commissioning group committed just £300,000 a year to a service for them, although I am not sure why it did not include 18-year-olds as well. However, budgets are squeezed and it has since been announced that the funding will be cut by a third. That is another example of the budget pressures being experienced and it is happening within the NHS as opposed to local authorities, which we have discussed. In effect, £200,000 allows the service to work with little more than 100 young people aged 16 to 17 in a given year. On funding relative to need, there are 12,627 young people aged 16 to 17 living in Sheffield and it is estimated that 10% of them have some sort of mental health challenge. That leaves more than 90% of those we could expect to need support with no service at all. We cannot keep talking about reducing stigma, eradicating stereotypes and parity of esteem between physical and mental health without funding services properly when people—especially young people—need that help. We have serious questions to answer on the challenges posed to us by the issues raised with me by young people in Sheffield and those raised by the Youth Parliament. We know that, nationally, mental health problems account for 28% of morbidity, but only 13% of expenditure is committed to mental health. Where is the parity in that? I hope the Minister will address that when he responds to the debate. We need to put our money where our mouth is. I am pleased that Labour has committed to increasing the proportion of mental health spend on CAMHS, which is currently a tiny amount of 6% even though three quarters of adult mental illness begins before the age of 18.
2015-03-03b.890.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Norman Lamb	I agree with the hon. Gentleman about the need to increase resource in children’s mental health services. Is the proposal he mentions designed to increase investment in mental health or to shift resource from adult mental health to children’s mental health?
2015-03-03b.890.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Paul Blomfield	I am sure my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) on the Front Bench will come back to this issue. My understanding is that our proposal is both to increase the overall resource available in the NHS and to shift resource within the service towards supporting CAMHS. We will also train NHS staff and teachers to spot problems sooner. We will expand talking therapies and work towards a 28-day waiting time standard for access to both adult and young people’s talking therapies. That is crucial, given what I have heard from young people. Moreover, as I said a moment ago, we will invest an additional £2.5 billion in the NHS to fund extra nurses, doctors and other health workers, to relieve pressure on the service. We owe it to our young people to respond to their calls and I am pleased to have had the opportunity to articulate some of their concerns.
2015-03-03b.890.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-03b.890.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Dawn Primarolo	Order. Let me give Members guidance about how long we have for this debate. The wind-ups will start at 6.30 pm, so I do not think it necessary to have a time limit as long as Members take about 10 minutes each, including interventions. If everyone takes 15 or 16 minutes, we will not fit every Member in. We do not need a time limit just yet, but if those speaking could aim for 10 to 12 minutes, including interventions, that would be helpful.
2015-03-03b.891.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	John Pugh	I will certainly observe that time limit, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) on the report from the Health Committee, which was interesting and important reading. I want to make a few remarks about adolescents. If we had to be reincarnated, I doubt that anyone in this room would choose to be reincarnated as an adolescent. They are neither fish nor fowl; they are attached to one family but dominated by their peers. They are going through new states of mind and body, which are exciting and disturbing in equal measure. They are no longer a child but are not quite an adult. They are advancing in knowledge and understanding, but hormonally and emotionally confused. It is probably the most difficult stage of anybody’s life to negotiate, and I believe it is quite hard to be genuinely and consistently happy. In a society without clear norms and rites of passage, it is probably doubly difficult. Should we therefore be surprised that adult mental illness is on the rise—the hon. Lady called it an alarming rise—or does that indicate that we are in a pathogenic, sick-making society? Are we simply getting better at diagnosis, or are we applying clinical language to describe the mood swings of adolescents, which are more normal that we like to believe? I find the figure of one in 10 surprising, although there are undoubtedly some troubled youngsters out there who will not get back on track or lead a normal life without extensive help. There are those in the early stage of psychosis or in the grip of a debilitating neurosis, or the depressively suicidal—I know a fair deal about that. As hon. Members have said, it is crucial that good services exist for such people, and nobody would disagree that diagnosis should be early and treatment sensitive and effective. I applaud—as does everybody—the new commitment and resources, the drive for parity of esteem, people speaking out and so on. However, I have one problem with the current enlightened mindset and what I call the myth of the normal. Probably no one here would claim to be in perfect physical health—at least not for long—and we generally cope with the ailments, aches and pains of ordinary life, seeking help only when something dramatic happens or our own immune system cannot cope. I do not see why that should not apply to our perspective and our take on mental health. It is not a black or white issue—it is not an either/or. The world does not divide into those who have mental health issues and those who do not; there are simply those whose lives have been disabled by their mental health issues, and others who, by and large, have coped. Many years ago I used to teach adolescents about mental health in a Bootle comprehensive school, which was my own idea. I used to discuss the issue as a spectrum, and I hoped to encourage a degree of sensitivity. Children in the playground badly misuse mental health vocabulary. They call one another “psycho”, “mong”, “retard” and so on—the school yard can be an awfully cruel place. As part of our course we went to visit an old-fashioned mental hospital called Winwick in Rainhill. It was a large, relatively benign, caring and good institution of its kind—I had previously worked in a less good institution, Oakwood hospital in Maidstone. I basically wanted the children to understand what mental ill health was like, and for them to have a deeper sensitivity towards it. I vividly recall one episode in a corridor. An elderly and somewhat confused old lady approached the party. She was happy to see young faces reminiscent of her grandchildren. The boys—tough Bootle lads—backed away in fear. They did not know what to do or how they were expected to react. At that stage, I thought I had clearly failed to get something across. We are still failing to get quite a lot of things across. We have a myth of the normal and believe that the world divides into the sane and the insane, the normal and the well, and those with issues and those without. That is still going strong. The House of Commons applauds with all the enthusiasm of a revivalist meeting when someone owns up to having mental illness, and we pat ourselves on the back for being enlightened. However, when a prominent Member of the House has a memory lapse on TV, which was a mental failing—he said it was an age thing—we scream like banshees, “Bill, Bill, Bill!” at Prime Minister’s questions. That is not a fine example of an atmosphere conducive to good mental health. It is worse than the school yard, but it will be repeated again at 12 noon tomorrow. The terrifying thing about adolescent mental illness is that the individuals will never have had anything like it happen to them before. There is no frame of reference for what they are going through—it is all new. For them, as they grow up, a chasm opens up between those who can hack life and the small minority who cannot. The dread is that they are doomed to be in the latter category more or less for ever. That is the underlying and horrible fear. Successful peers will surround their failing selves. Their fear is that there will be future adults and future casualties, the copers and the failures. Those young people buy, as do big chunks of society, into the myth of the normal—the belief that mental illness and frailty is not on a spectrum like physical illness, or something that touches everyone to some extent, but something abnormal, unusual, permanently blighting and for keeps. The truth is that mental illness is not that. Unless we get that across, we will make matters a whole lot worse.
2015-03-03b.892.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Robert Flello	It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh) and his contribution to the debate. He made extremely good points. I should like to refer to an experience I had some 12 or so years ago of running an organisation in Birmingham called Malachi Community Trust, which worked with young people with emotional, behavioural and mental health issues. More often than not, it also worked with their families, including parents and their wider families, to resolve their issues. We worked with qualified cognitive behavioural therapists and teachers—they were primary age children—in the school setting. It is interesting but deeply saddening that so many items in this extremely good report take me straight back to some of the conversations of 12 or 14 years ago. I want to give a brief outline in the unfortunately few minutes that are available of what Malachi did—it is still going strong. It used musical theatre to engage with young people and as a tool to identify their issues. It enabled processes to be set up to work with those children and young people who had more profound mental health issues. Pertinently for today’s debate, it acted to stabilise the situation for children who were on waiting lists to see CAMHS staff. Back then, there were three, four and five-month waits, or longer. Malachi was not the only group that did that work, although it was and still is particularly good—I have fond memories of what it did. Malachi and other organisations were very good at that stabilisation. They were good at holding those young people in a place where they were not deteriorating while waiting for CAMHS workers. My fear then, and sadly now, is that an awful lot of children—some of our most vulnerable citizens—are waiting for CAMHS workers and their conditions are deteriorating, and their needs are getting worse and not better, because of the waiting lists. One of the big issues we identified was family breakdown. Parental conflict and family breakdown is a very strong factor in mental ill health in children. A statistic suggests that one in four young people in Stoke-on-Trent are affected by family breakdown and divorce. That means that approximately 15,500 children in Stoke-on-Trent alone will be affected by parental breakdown and divorce. That does not immediately mean that those children will have a mental health issue, but it is a factor that makes them more vulnerable. To pick up on some of the comments made by the hon. Member for Southport, children need the skills and the ability to have resilience, so that if there are factors that might tip them into having mental ill health issues, they have the resilience to address them. Sadly, for all too many of our children there is not the ability to build that resilience. My hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) referred to local authorities. The ability to gain that resilience from services such as those offered by local authorities is not possible in Stoke-on-Trent, where local budgets have almost been wiped out for some children’s services. I seem to be constantly talking to people who used to work for the local authority in children’s services, but have now gone off to do other things because they can no longer be afforded. The main thrust of what I want to say is that more than 10 years ago there was a shortage of access to CAMHS. We do not seem to have gone anywhere with that. It seemed to get better, but it is now getting dramatically worse. Healthwatch Stoke-on-Trent helpfully brought to my attention a list of issues that they are concerned about. When I say “they”, I mean children, young people and the adults supporting them. It makes deeply saddening reading. The first item on their list of what they want is a single point of access for real-time professional advice and guidance that can refer them to mental health services with the support they need when there is a crisis. This was again being talked about more than 10 years ago when I was attending meetings in what was still then, despite the fact it had been going for 10 years, a fledgling CAMHS. Nevertheless, even back then there was talk about having a single point of access. We have come full circle on the need for a single point of access. Those children, young people and the adults supporting them talk about information, options and guidance to navigate the range of services and pathways available to them, and evidence-based interventions that are appropriate to them, with follow-up support as needed—the right service, first time. It is sad that here we are, so many years later, without that service—or, where a service has been developed, it has gone because of the cuts. The Government are now having to undertake a review to take us back to the probably better work being done in the period leading up to 2010. These people want a greater use of technology and access to online support. Technology has come a long way in the past 10 years, and I welcome that good suggestion from the children and young people themselves. They would like more support from schools and direct interventions on school premises in the school day, such as counselling, peer mentors and quiet spaces. There are quiet spaces in some of the good schools that I am blessed to have in Stoke-on-Trent. For example, St Thomas More school has a specific arrangement and understanding that young people who feel that they need to go out and get their head together can use the space that has been made available. I am sure other schools do that as well, but that example was highlighted to me. Malachi was doing innovative work on support in schools 15 or 20 years ago. I made the point in an intervention on the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) that when Malachi lost bids to big national charities, those charities would then subcontract back to Malachi, because they knew they had an in with the schools and could provide the service. Going back to the list, those children and young people and the adults supporting them want clearer step up, step down work given that their mental health needs change and fluctuate, as well as more early support from non-mental health practitioners and their peers and/or older mentors. Their final point is that they do not want to be stigmatised when seeking and accessing help, which is so important. In addition to those things that the children and young people want, they have asked for clear referral routes and pathways through services, so that they get the intervention they need quickly, without being referred to multiple services—often waiting some time for an assessment—before finding that the service is not the right one for them anyway: having waited three or four months to get into the system, they then find that it is not what they needed and they have to start all over again. The children and young people have also asked to be involved in planning their own care, to be part of setting their own outcomes and goals, to be consulted when changes are made to service provision and for their parents to be given support so that they can support them. The parents themselves, the carers, have asked for there to be clear access to services—that comes up time and again—and parenting support in the community that is easily accessible and non-stigmatising. Going back to my Malachi days, one of the hugely important things we did was to work with the parents, supporting and helping them, enabling them to take on a lot of the work of maintaining and helping their own children. There are a few more items on the list, but I am conscious that I will rapidly run out of time if I am not careful, so I want to move on to a few of the risk factors. Again, they are not new, but things that we have come across too often, and it is important to raise these in the context of Stoke-on-Trent. In a report on this, the first factor listed among those that will have an impact on children and young people’s mental health is—this comes up time and time again—deprivation and poverty: “The close association between mental disorder”— as it is termed— “and economic disadvantage was clearly illustrated by income analysis in the Mental Health of Children and Young People in Great Britain in 2004 survey”, so this is not new evidence. That is a huge problem in places such as Stoke-on-Trent, where we still have such high levels of deprivation—indeed, they have been made worse recently. I have mentioned parental conflict and breakdown, but there is also communication/speech and language delay. In Stoke-on-Trent there is a huge problem with language delay. Fantastic projects such as Stoke Speaks Out are addressing it, but if a child is having difficulty expressing their needs, how much more difficult will it be for that child—that young person—to be able to eloquently, or indeed adequately, put across what they want from the system that is trying to help them? Attainment in education is still an issue, despite the dramatic improvements that we saw in Stoke-on-Trent. Then there is housing and homelessness; and again, the poor standard of so much housing still in Stoke-on-Trent is a tragedy. I want to make an observation about children in care and some of the organisations. The local authority in Stoke-on-Trent has seen a rise in the number of children in care in just a short period. From July 2010 to June 2013, there has been an increase of 38% in the number of children needing support in care in Stoke-on-Trent. That is a massive increase in the number of young people in the care system, which is a huge risk factor for mental ill health. I close by observing a couple of things about Stoke-on-Trent. There is, as I have mentioned, Healthwatch Stoke-on-Trent and the good work it does. There are other organisations doing fantastic and excellent work, including Young Carers—part of North Staffs Carers Association. I have had the huge privilege on a number of occasions to meet the young people from Young Carers and hear about the amazing things that they—children—are called upon to do, quite often looking after their parents, and the huge impact that has on their mental health. Finally, there is another scheme, whose details I have unfortunately lost in the pile of papers in front of me. Home Start has been running in Stoke-on-Trent for about 30 years. Sadly, because the local authority is so strapped for cash and has had to cut its budget, after all that time and after helping thousands of families, Home Start is now closed. It is gone. It is another resource that is no longer there to help the people of Stoke-on-Trent. That is the backdrop to the report by the hon. Member for Totnes and to what the Minister is doing with his investigation, both of which I welcome. It saddens me so much, however, that we seem to have gone nowhere in 10 years. Let us try to make sure that we do something about this in the coming months rather than in the years ahead.
2015-03-03b.895.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Oliver Heald	In listening to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) , I recognised some important themes that were also evident in the speech of the Select Committee Chairman, my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) . Both touched on what we can do to help people with mental health problems through volunteering, mentoring and bringing services together so that we have a more substantial whole that will help to tackle the fragmentation between different services and make something more rational and more joined up. I was a governor of a residential school for young people with emotional and behavioural difficulties in the 1980s—Shaftesbury House in Royston. It was an Inner London education authority school, which did extremely good work with some very troubled young people. At that time, however, there was a different understanding of mental health issues from what we saw a few years later in 2001 when I was my party’s spokesman on mental health. By that time, there was much greater recognition that deep-seated mental health problems start at ages much younger than adulthood. Previously, there was a feeling that some of these issues were emotional, behavioural and developmental, but they were not seen in their true context. I thus slightly disagree with the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South. I think our understanding of mental health issues and what they mean for children and adolescents has changed over the period that he spoke about—and certainly since 2001, we know far more about the onset of these illnesses and about how they should be treated. I agree with him, however, that we are seeing a great number of young people affected by these issues. The hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh) talked about the ups and downs of adolescence and whether there was such a thing as a normal period of adolescence. I believe that issues such as family breakdown, drugs, social media, and domestic violence put considerable pressure on young people, and it gets to the point where some adolescents have a series of crises. They can be intermittent, but there is often a recognisable crisis for which help is needed. It is more than just highs and lows; it is something more serious. In those circumstances, the delays about which we have heard can be particularly acute. Two young people contacted me recently to raise issues about how child and adolescent mental health is dealt with. They were both very unhappy with the current situation. I thank the Minister for meeting one of them—a young lady who has been through CAMHS —to talk through the issues. She was very appreciative of hearing about the taskforce that has been set up, and it does the Minister great credit that he was prepared to meet her and that he has accepted that there are problems in the system that need tackling. Delay is certainly one them. Another is the amount of help available, and particularly whether there are sufficient numbers of trained staff—psychiatrists, community psychiatric nurses, therapists and so forth. We have never had the numbers we need, and I hope the taskforce will consider that issue. The Hertfordshire Partnership Foundation Trust has a youth panel that is deliberately aimed at revealing concerns. The young lady who came to see the Minister had been on that youth panel. She had suffered from anxiety, bulimia and depression; she had been bullied, but got no proper response from her school. She waited nine months for CAMHS, and had still not been given an appointment when she attempted suicide. Even after she had been in hospital, she had to wait for six weeks. She had only five sessions of therapy in 20 months at a time when she was experiencing serious crises. Another young lady who has been in touch with me was taken into an in-care unit, and it was three weeks before she saw a psychiatrist, although she too had experienced a bad crisis.
2015-03-03b.897.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Grahame Morris	I cannot disagree with what the hon. and learned Gentleman is saying or the examples that he is giving, but does he accept the general point that one of the problems when it comes to planning effective interventions is the lack of current and accurate prevalence data that would enable the relevant agencies to plan and commission services that meet local requirements?
2015-03-03b.897.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Oliver Heald	I agree. I am sorry that action to deal with that problem was cancelled some years ago, because such action is definitely needed. I was talking about the young woman who was taken to an in-care unit. She said that the staff always seemed to be overworked, and she was given no opportunity to exercise. She felt that, although she had been placed in the unit, nothing was being done to address her condition. I think that a great deal needs to be done to improve child and adolescent mental health services. On page 76 of its excellent report, the Select Committee refers to the Minister’s taskforce, and says that the “current fragmented commissioning arrangements” must change “to allow rational and effective use of resources in this area, which incentivises early intervention.” That is an extremely important point. On page 77, the Committee deals with education and GP services and makes another important point, namely that this is not just about specialist CAMHS, but about school-based counselling. It quotes Mick Cooper, professor of counselling psychology at the university of Roehampton, as saying: “Due to its short waiting times, convenient location, and broad intake criteria, school-based counselling is perceived by many stakeholder groups as a highly accessible intervention. It is able to offer a wide range of young people professional therapeutic support in a direct and immediate way.” I think it is time that we joined up those services, using schools as a platform. In my constituency, there is an initiative called the North Herts Emotional Health Support Service, which aims to make a start with that. It has estimated that one in 10 young people aged between five and 16 is likely to be affected by a “clinically significant mental health problem” at some point, and has calculated on that basis that 18,000 school-aged children in north Hertfordshire are affected, including about 6,000 with emotional disorders. It has looked at the schools in question, and says: “Evidence suggests that vulnerable children, young people and their families find it easier to access services” at a school. It has trained a team of mentors consisting of teaching assistants, teachers and volunteers, and has identified a “bank of quality-assured local counsellors and…therapists” who can provide the sort of art and drama therapy that was described by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South. It has two local lead therapists whose job is to oversee the training and supervising of the mentors. It speaks of the importance of “offering consultancy and training” and “co-ordinating”, and hopes to engage a “part-time administrator”. It has made considerable progress with that model, and, although it will need to be evaluated, I think that we should do something similar. The service is harnessing the good will of people who volunteer, and there are people who will do that—when I was a mental health spokesman, I met people who volunteered to work for Rethink and MIND—but it also uses the skills of professionals to train the individuals concerned, under supervision. It is giving us a lot of coverage and an ability to help young people relatively cheaply. That is a consideration in these times. I therefore suggest to the Minister that looking at such initiatives and those described on that page of the report is a possible way forward. Many young people spend a lot of their time using social media of course—thumbs clicking at great speed. This is not necessarily a bad thing. People with anxiety or depression or another mental health condition could find online services that could help them and they could reinforce the coping techniques that they have been taught. I hope the taskforce will look at that. I think it might be fruitful.
2015-03-03b.898.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Geoffrey Robinson	I am grateful to be called to speak in this debate after the hon. and learned Member for North East Hertfordshire (Sir Oliver Heald) , who has ministerial experience in this sphere. I do not, but I have some experience in other spheres of finding money for it and I know how difficult that can be. I therefore congratulate the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) , Chair of the Select Committee, on her report. We in Coventry find it very timely, and we look forward in due course to the Minister’s taskforce and its report, leading, we hope, to what the hon. Lady very precisely referred to in terms of improvements to services—better services for children and adults on the ground, which is where it matters. She also said she found having to grapple with out-of-date figures—it is rather surprising that we should have them—frustrating. I therefore thought I would take part in the debate in order to bring up one or two up-to-date figures on a particular aspect of young persons’ and adolescents’ mental health that is becoming more and more prevalent, and disconcertingly and alarmingly so in Coventry: self-harm. We have seen a terrible and frightening increase in self-harm over the past five years. The first figures we had were back in 2010 and the figures for 2014 have just come out. They show an alarming increase from 50 referrals in 2010 to over 300 in 2014. That is a terrifying rate of increase. It has been going pretty steadily at over 20% year in, year out, and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) pointed out so tellingly, it points to the impact deprivation and poverty can have on children, as there is a fairly well-established causal link between pockets and areas of deprivation and poverty and the tendency among adolescents to self-harm and referrals. Those referrals come on top of what we already know is a crisis in A and E. They are only exacerbating that, and leading to youngsters with terrible mental health problems being turned away—doors closed in their face. It is a situation that in Coventry has led to a clear and recognisable crisis, and to an emergency meeting of the scrutiny board to examine exactly what the situation is, to report on it, and to see what measures can be taken to deal with it. It is often all too easy to blame lack of resources and the Government, but, as the Chair of the Select Committee said, there clearly is a lack of resources. Towards the end of my brief remarks, I will discuss the fact that mental health services have always been the Cinderella services of the health service. I think that is fairly well accepted both outside and within the NHS. If we are to embark on yet another reorganisation and integration of health services as a whole, I hope that the underfunding and the lack of past attention that has affected and led to the present situation in mental health services will not be overlooked. It is not as though all the services can be integrated equally or proportionately, but if certain services are not to be further damaged, they will need to receive particular recognition and get preferential priority in the integration—I do not like the word “reorganisation”—which all the parties agree needs to be done carefully. This should not be rushed. We do not want another reorganisation forced on the health service. It should be done sensibly and gradually, and with sensitivity to the individual needs of the services that are being integrated.
2015-03-03b.899.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Jim Cunningham	Does my hon. Friend agree that the Caludon health centre at the University hospital Coventry does a very good job in very difficult circumstances? Yesterday, I met some young people from Coventry college who told me about the pressures that they were under. They are worried about exams and about whether they will be able to get a job after their exams, because the number of young people out of work in the west midlands is extremely high. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need to consider all the pressures that young people face these days?
2015-03-03b.899.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Geoffrey Robinson	Yes, I do indeed. The pressure in the education system to achieve results at any cost simply adds to the problem, as do the deprivation and poverty to which other Members have referred. All those factors have resulted in a situation in which incidents of self-harm are increasing at the rate of 20% a year. Referrals in Coventry are going up, and that constitutes a crisis, given that our accident and emergency services are already overcrowded and hard pressed. Let me explain what that crisis means in regard to the number of weeks involved. Normally, effective substantive intervention would be expected within 18 weeks, but in Coventry the average wait for a substantive intervention has been 44 weeks. That is in a sector in which early intervention is clearly the most effective route to the successful management and eventual elimination of a mental health condition. That simply is not good enough, and I put that to the Minister for consideration by his taskforce. We have asked the local council what can be done. As my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham) has said, budgets have been heavily cut. According to current Government plans to reduce public expenditure to 1930s levels—from which I know the Minister of State, Department of Health, the right hon. Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb) has dissociated himself—Coventry would experience a further 50% cut over the next five years. There would be nothing left. Fortunately, however, that is unlikely to happen, as I am sure that there will be changes of one kind or another to those plans, or to those making the plans, in the very near future. It is impossible for the councils to find more funds, because they are under tremendous pressure, but there has already been a £50 million cut in the budget for CAMHS. It has been cut from £766 million. I think that that relates to the £800 million figure quoted by my hon. Friend for Eastleigh—
2015-03-03b.900.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Grahame Morris	Easington.
2015-03-03b.900.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Geoffrey Robinson	Easington. I beg my hon. Friend’s pardon. The CAMHS budget has been cut to £716 million, which is a cut of £50 million. That is an enormous cut.
2015-03-03b.900.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Adam Afriyie	The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful case, particularly on resourcing. Clearly, we would all like to see more resources going into adolescent mental health challenges, but does he share my view that if we get this right, with proper standards, proper implementation and early intervention, there could be a net saving to the Exchequer overall?
2015-03-03b.900.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Geoffrey Robinson	I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. I think the whole House would agree with his intervention, which was short and to the point. As in so many situations, prevention is better than cure. It is also a lot cheaper. We all know that, and there is a case for it in this context, but it will require investment up front. That is where the Government do not get it, because they usually take a short-sighted view of these matters. I wish to make two points in closing. First, if local councils do not have the resources at the moment, we cannot look to them to provide these services and so they are likely to get overlooked. Lastly, will the Minister confirm something about the leak—I am sure he will have read about this in the press—from his taskforce, which speaks of the perverse incentives that have arisen, particularly in relation to mental health, from the Government’s reorganisation? Have they exacerbated the problem? As a result, is the real cost of that reorganisation to the mental heath services not £50 million, but possibly a much higher figure? In any event, we all know from our constituency experience that we have had losses. Last night, I saw in a television programme that we have lost hundreds of doctors and thousands of nurses, and the prospect in the next few years is an accelerating trend on both. So the Labour party’s commitment for 20,000 new nurses and 8,000 new doctors is a bold one, but it is manageable. It is also absolutely necessary if we are to deal with any of our current problems. That is the message I would like to leave the House with. We need early intervention; a commitment to increase the number of doctors and nurses; parity of treatment—and even ahead of that— in the integration of mental health services; and the restoration of the CAMHS budget as soon as possible.
2015-03-03b.901.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Andrew Percy	It is a pleasure to take part in this debate as a member of the Committee, and I associate myself with the kind words of our excellent chairperson, my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) , about everyone who gave evidence, and about all the Clerks and House staff who supported the inquiry. It was one of the most important and far-reaching inquiries we have undertaken in the past few years, and I was proud to have been a part of it, because the issue is so important. I wish to make a few general comments about this whole area and then to talk specifically about the role schools can play in mental health services for children and young people. I noted with interest the comments made by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) . The comments today have generally been quite consensual, although something I will say a little later about funding may be less consensual. He pointed out that 10 years ago we were having many of these same conversations, but things have really moved on in the past 10 years, not least in this area; we heard in our inquiry about the increase in demand. Although many of the pressures young people faced 10 years ago are similar, a whole host of other pressures on young people now did not exist then, particularly those of a cyber nature, be it those arising from Facebook, Twitter or online bullying. When I started teaching in 2002 people did not have a great deal of understanding or expectation of any of those things, but they have now become so widespread that we have had a massive increase in demand in this area. In addition, the way in which mental health services and care are delivered has changed beyond recognition during that period, and some would argue that it has not always been for the better. As we know, between 1998 and 2010 the number of mental health beds reduced from 35,000 to 25,000, and we have seen a continuing shift away from in-patient treatment units. What came out of this inquiry, and what I have seen in my constituency in mental health service provision for both young people and adults, is that although that more traditional unit-based, hospital-based, bed-based system of treatment has changed, what has replaced it has not necessarily always filled users with confidence or has even been consistent across the country. As our report makes clear, there is a lot more we need to do. As I have said, I wish to focus on what we heard from young people. It was great that our inquiry had a session with young service users, including some from Hull, near my area, who came down to tell us about how they have engaged with local voluntary, local authority and, of course, school services. In our inquiry, we heard that the support schools offer young people is very patchy across the country, changing even within cities or within counties. Some young people we heard from, and some of the other evidence we took, made it clear that some of the best support they had received had come from dedicated teachers who understood mental health issues, really wanted to engage with those young people on them and help them access services. Having a teacher who was engaged and who understood what to look for in mental health really helped young people. Some pupils had different experiences. They felt that teachers either lacked the skills or were too disinterested to deal with the problem. Very often that can be because teachers are scared of mental health issues. In some cases, therefore, pupils experiencing mental health problems did not receive the support that they needed. I started teaching in 2002. When I think back to some of the young people we had to deal with, I can see that many of them probably had mental health issues. At the time though, those pupils were dismissed as being badly behaved or as having background problems. As a practitioner, I was sometimes guilty of not understanding the signs that were being presented to me. However, teachers cannot be blamed for that; they work in a pressured environment. The pressures around school standards seem to get more intense every year and with every Government initiative. What we did hear in our evidence was that 61% to 85% of schools are providing access to school-based counselling. Although that is a wide variation, it is a positive thing. We heard that some schools engage really proactively with the local authority and the NHS in this area. Unfortunately, though, we also heard of others that do not engage so well. Some schools seem to think that mental health issues are for health services and social services, but not for schools. When we talk about integration in all areas of health care, this area is one in which we need it the most and, potentially, it could have the biggest impact. My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes talked about early intervention. When we fail in that regard, the consequences are picked up by other services. That means that we have increased referrals and more behavioural difficulties in our schools, which leads to more exclusions. Those exclusions have consequences not just for the management of the school but for that young person’s life chances. What can we do in schools to make a real difference? Increased collaboration among the services is vital. Although we talk about integration and greater collaboration, we need someone at some point to take responsibility for that and to be held accountable when that collaboration does not work. As we heard in our evidence sessions, some schools are keen to take the lead in that regard, and others less so. Clearly, this is an area where we need greater clarity. The curriculum was raised by a number of young people, particularly around personal, social, health and economic education. They said, “We learn everything in PSHE. We learn about sexual activity, financial matters, career advice and career choices, but what we do not learn about is mental health and well-being.” Ofsted found that 40% of PSHE provision required improvements nationally and that one third of young people say that they want to know more about how to deal with stress and how to access help for eating disorders. Some 38% said that they wanted education around bereavement, which surprised me. We have seen some good things happen with the curriculum. We heard in our inquiry that the ICT curriculum now contains a section on cyber-bullying. Clearly, some improvements have been highlighted but an awful lot more still needs to be done. The focus should be on young people as much as it is on teacher training. In our evidence sessions, we heard from the Secretary of State about how a great deal of effort has gone into providing teachers with the tools to deal with mental health issues and to improve training, and that is really important. When I did my postgraduate certificate in education, I do not remember receiving a great deal of education about mental health and young people’s emotional well-being. Clearly, that needs to change, but the focus should be not only on equipping teachers better, but on ensuring through the curriculum that young people are able to understand mental health issues. The stigma needs to be removed through both teacher training and the curriculum, and young people who have had experience of mental health issues should be involved in developing that curriculum. I wanted to say a little more about youth services, but I do not have a great deal of time. We have heard a lot about council spending reductions and the impact that that can have. The truth is that whoever was in power, we would be in this position, with council budgets having been reduced. In my area, I am very pleased that North Lincolnshire council has made a concerted effort to reverse the cuts to youth services instituted by the previous administration of a different party, which cut the services by £194,000. Even in these tough times the council has been able to put in an extra £100,000 of funding and over the next three years will add to that a further £300,000. Local authorities can do that if they have the necessary vision. In the case of North Lincolnshire, the driver for that is a very good portfolio holder in the cabinet who understands that we have to get it right early. That means that we need proper investment in positive activities for young people, because that allows savings elsewhere down the line. Despite all the difficulties that we have faced in local government funding, where there is leadership and vision, people who understand the value of these services can find the money to invest in them. With that, I will end as I am conscious of time and I know that one of my colleagues wishes to speak.
2015-03-03b.903.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Grahame Morris	I congratulate the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) , with whom I serve on the Health Committee, and the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) , who so ably chairs the Committee. Although this report is the third report of the 2014-15 Session, I think it was the first report produced under the hon. Lady’s chairmanship, so it is quite an historic document. It is an important piece of work on a subject that has been neglected. As time is short, I shall try to stick to a particular structure. I thank the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health for providing a briefing and for asking us to highlight some of its concerns about variations in services and funding for transition services and mental health care provision for prevention and early intervention. A number of right hon. and hon. Members have referred to those issues. I also want to make a few points from the perspective of local government. As we have heard and as the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole observed, this is an area of joint responsibility where local government, given the correct support and resourcing, can make a significant difference. On the scale of the problem, it is a shocking statistic that 50% of mental illness in adult life, excluding dementia, starts before the age of 15, and 75% of mental illness starts before the age of 18. Apart from the mental health manifestations, there are often increased physical health problems associated with the deterioration in mental health. Disturbingly, since 1980, as others have mentioned, there has been no decline in the number of deaths caused by self-harm, suicide or assault, with more than 1,000 10 to 18-year-olds dying this way every year in the United Kingdom. The problem is particularly prevalent among boys. An hon. Member who spoke earlier talked about the value of prevention and early intervention and alluded to a cost-benefit analysis, and he was absolutely right. Quite apart from the fact that it is the right thing to do, if we look at it purely in terms of the opportunity cost, we see that mental health problems that start in childhood and adolescence result in increased costs of between £11,000 and £59,000 per child annually, according to figures provided by the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. Those are huge additional costs. With upstream interventions of the kind other Members have argued for, early identification of mental health difficulties should be established as a core capacity of all health, social care and educational professionals who work with children and young people, because the benefits would be considerable. Another issue that has been talked about, and which I feel I must mention, is the provision of an evidence base on which to plan interventions. Indeed, the chief medical officer highlighted the lack of accurate prevalence data in evidence to the Committee. I fully understand that the Minister is carrying the can and making the arguments, but that survey had not been carried out for quite a few years. Although it has now been commissioned, my understanding is that the data will not be available for use until 2017. If we are to have a scientific or empirical basis on which to plan commissioning and resources, either in early years or in whichever tier is thought appropriate, we need an up-to-date and relevant evidence base of data.
2015-03-03b.904.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Oliver Heald	On the hon. Gentleman’s point about prevalence data, with which I agree, is not the real point that many of the contracts in mental health are block contracts, whereby a fixed amount of activity is purchased? If we do not know exactly what the prevalence really is, that is a bit of a shot in the dark.
2015-03-03b.904.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Grahame Morris	I cannot disagree with that. I come from the perspective that we need to plan interventions on the basis of evidence, but how can we do that without current and relevant data on child and adolescent mental health? We certainly need that data. On the structure of the contracts, I am a firm believer in integration. There may well be issues with block contracts. The Health Committee received evidence from the south-west indicating that there are vast areas of the country where there is very little access to certain types of in-patient mental health provision, which is clearly unacceptable. One might have thought that a large block contract would make that less likely, but apparently that is not so. However, I am not an expert in commissioning; I am simply trying to identify the policy areas. Having spent a number of years in local government, I have no doubt that local authorities wish to tackle some of the barriers that young people face in accessing mental health services. It is a complicated area, and we need to enable local areas— the hon. and learned Member for North East Hertfordshire (Sir Oliver Heald) just referred to larger block contracts—to commission better services, and perhaps that is better done on a more local level.
2015-03-03b.905.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Kevan Jones	Does my hon. Friend realise that one of the problems with block contracts is that, because of their size, they freeze out small voluntary organisations that could deliver services on a local basis?
2015-03-03b.905.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Grahame Morris	That is true. Some of the organisations that submitted evidence to the Health Committee and subsequently provided briefings made that point. Another issue of concern is the complex commissioning landscape for CAMHS, which can result in poorly co-ordinated services and a lack of clarity about roles and responsibilities, leading to gaps in provision and poor transitions from child to adolescent and from adolescent to adult. The service is certainly underfunded. We often talk in this place about parity of esteem. As other Members have reported, CAMHS nationally is receiving about £1.8 billion of the £14 billion that is spent on mental health. Local authority-provided services, which are often having to bridge the gap, are facing huge financial challenges. My local authority, which I share with my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) , has had to cope with cuts of £250 million over the lifetime of this Parliament. That is forcing councils to make extremely difficult decisions about which services are funded. I fully understand the point made by the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole, but I also fully understand the difficult decisions faced particularly by authorities in the north that seem to be suffering disproportionate cuts. Councils are embracing their new public health responsibilities—
2015-03-03b.905.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Andrew Percy	I hope the hon. Gentleman understands that both my local authorities are in the north of England; I would not want him to get his geography wrong.
2015-03-03b.905.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Grahame Morris	I am certainly aware that some authorities are facing higher cuts than others. My area is one of relatively high deprivation, but we seem to be in a far worse position than some in the south that are more affluent and do not have the same kinds of pressures. In rural areas, in particular, people face problems with travelling long distances, a lack of accessibility to specialist services, and long waits. One issue is the 12-week target for referral to CAMHS in cases where children and adolescents are referred out of their local areas. Transition between services varies from one area to another. In some areas it happens at 16, in some at 18, and in some at a point in between. These issues all need to be addressed. Fundamentally, this issue comes down to funding. I welcome the establishment of the taskforce and the provision of £30 million over the next five years to improve services for young people with mental health problems. However, we must recognise that councils play a vital role in working with health services to target support and co-ordinate services, and they should play a key role in directing the funding.
2015-03-03b.906.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Adam Afriyie	I apologise for not arriving for the first part of the debate; sadly, I was detained elsewhere. I wanted to say a few words about this excellent report. I commend the Chair of the Health Committee and its other members for producing a very well-balanced report that does not appear to be partisan in any way but does point to some of the problems that still exist in our child and adolescent mental health services, and to some of the possible solutions, if any future Government were to adopt its recommendations. The other impressive thing about the report is that it does not apportion blame. It merely observes that there are challenges, without attributing blame on a partisan basis or to a particular group or individual. It can often be hard to implement the recommendations in these reports if it is felt that a finger is pointed at particular body. Clearly, mental health challenges are widespread. As other Members have observed, they generally start when people are younger; it is unusual for a mental health challenge suddenly to appear out of the blue. That is why this report and looking at early intervention is very important if we want to tackle mental health services for citizens and mental health outcomes for our constituents. The mental health unit at Heatherwood hospital in my constituency has been transferred to Reading. It strikes me that that is very positive in many ways, because it enables more integrated services to be provided in a larger establishment, which has more resources and is better able to deal with the people who present themselves there. I want to focus on a couple of positives that I very much welcome among the recommendations. One is the recommendation to develop, implement and monitor minimum standards. It seems to me that that is exactly what we do in every other area of health care. When I was shadow Minister for Science and Innovation, it was precisely what the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency and the then National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence intended when it came to interventions requiring medical trials and proper evidence. Minimum standards are an absolute minimum, to put it that way, if we are absolutely serious about ensuring that care is consistent and does not fall below a well defined level in services and the way in which they are provided. It is clear that the recommendations on intervention and recognition in schools and GP surgeries are already very well known among Members. In the 10 years that I have been here, I have heard debates in which such points have been highlighted. It is good to see a recognition in print that there needs to be more awareness in schools. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) , who was a teacher for many years before he entered this place, for his words on this subject. Without the relevant guidance, it is quite tricky to differentiate between children who, just from their background or families, one thinks are just being tricky, and children who are presenting with a diagnosable and observable emotional or clinical mental health condition. On in-patient care for people under section 136 of the Mental Health Act 1983, times have moved on. The days when the idea was that somebody in such a unit should feel that it was akin to a prison must be well behind us. I very much welcome much of the work already done in the NHS and elsewhere to make sure that although such units are secure and can protect the vulnerable young people housed in them, they are developed not just as a location in which to keep them safe, but as a place with the services—the cognitive behavioural therapy, the psychiatrists and the psychologists—required to reintegrate them into society. Without criticising the report, I would have liked it to go a little further on online resources and the digital world. It seems to me that we often see Twitter, social media and technology as a huge danger with all sorts of negative consequences, and that we seldom see the positive applications that could be made in the online and digital world. I very much welcome the acknowledgment of the extra stresses and burdens that social media place on young people in particular. I also welcome the allusion to how, perhaps with more resources and more proactive health care providers and more proactive people with an interest in mental health conditions, technology could be made part of the answer. When somebody is being bullied on Twitter or social media, technology could be used to create a little pop-up saying, “Hey. This looks like bullying. Would you like to analyse how you’re feeling about that?” There could be all sorts of excellent uses of digital technology to help people through a process, through a partial process of CBT or in identifying the problems they face, and online resources could be exceptionally helpful in that regard. A lot of the process is about acknowledgment and recognition and then of leading people on to the next step, but if they do not feel that fulfilling the criteria for having a mental health challenge will be an embarrassment or that stigma will be attached to them, such technology could guide and lead them to getting additional help. When the Government look at the report, perhaps they could look even further into using the online world and digital technology as part of the cure. As a former shadow Minister, I would like to say that if we had a pill that cured 50% of people of any illness or mental health condition that they had after six weeks, we would say that it was a miracle cure. Certainly for less acute mental health conditions among adolescents, cognitive behavioural therapy is that wonder pill. We need to see more investment in, further roll-out of and quicker access to such services.
2015-03-03b.907.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Luciana Berger	I thank the Chair of the Health Committee, the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) , and the other members of her Committee for their thorough and valuable report, and for giving us the opportunity to debate this important issue. When we discuss complex commissioning and funding arrangements, as we are today, we must not lose sight of the people at the heart of the matter. I remind the House that we are talking about some of the most vulnerable children and young people, who are often scared and in states of high distress and trauma. They and their families deserve the very best care and support that our NHS can offer. However, as the Health Committee found, for too long they have been overlooked. I think that anyone who has read the report would agree that it is damning in parts. It concludes: “There are serious and deeply ingrained problems with the commissioning and provision of Children’s and adolescents’ mental health services. These run through the whole system from prevention and early intervention through to inpatient services for the most vulnerable young people.” We have heard that Members from all parts of the House share the concerns that are expressed in the report. It was valuable and helpful to hear not only from members of the Committee, but from other Members who have experience from their constituencies and from before they came to the House. Many Members in this debate and in previous debates in the House have raised horrifying and tragic cases involving their constituents. Most Members know all too well the pressure that too many parts of CAMHS are increasingly under. Sadly, the reports of children facing long waits for treatment, being sent hundreds of miles for a bed or not getting any help at all are too common. In my capacity as shadow Minister for public health with responsibility for mental health, I have received too many messages from young people across the country that paint a picture of services that are under immense pressure and of waits that pass the three month and six month marks. Indeed, we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North West (Mr Robinson) about constituents who have waited 44 weeks. The Minister is open about the scale of the challenge and acknowledges that there is much to do. The Government accepted in their response to the report that the mental health and well-being support that is offered to children and young people, as well as to their families and carers, often falls short. The Government accept that there is a need to improve the system. Today’s debate has been a much needed contribution to the parliamentary and public understanding of the challenges that the system is facing. It has been an opportunity for the House to hold the Government to account on their response and on the action that they must now take to get to grips with these challenges. The shortage of beds, which the Select Committee highlighted, is of great concern to many Members. The Government response refers to NHS England’s commitment to commission 50 more beds. We understand that NHS England has opened the majority of those beds. I hope that in his response the Minister will confirm when the remaining few will open. Does he consider the additional 50 beds to be sufficient, in the light of the pressures that CAMHS is facing? The system clearly is not working in some parts of the country. Members on both sides of the House will have been shocked to read in The Observer a few weeks ago that commissioners from NHS England sent out an e-mail on a Friday night to warn that there would be a national shortage of in-patient beds for children over the weekend and that it was likely that children would need to be placed on adult wards. Almost a year ago, the chief executive of YoungMinds said that the increase in the number of children placed on adult wards was entirely predictable following cuts to mental health services. I hope the Minister will say what more he can do to assess and reassess the situation. Ensuring that we have enough beds to prevent children from having to travel hundreds of miles from home for treatment or to avoid being detained in police cells is, of course, critical, and Members have addressed that issue. However, as the Committee points out, “commissioning extra inpatient capacity alone will not be enough to alleviate the current problems being experienced” in relation to in-patient services. I appreciate that some of the issues are long-standing historical challenges, but it is certainly fair to say that this Government’s reorganisation has exacerbated those challenges. The Committee’s report states: “Despite the move to national commissioning over a year ago…NHS England has yet to ‘take control’ of the inpatient commissioning process, with poor planning, lack of co-ordination, and inadequate communication with local providers and commissioners.” NHS England itself has acknowledged weaknesses in commissioning as a reason for bed pressures and patients being inappropriately admitted to specialised units. The Committee highlighted the concerns that professionals have been raising for more than a year about the new split in commissioning between tier 4 services, which are the in-patient beds commissioned nationally by NHS England, and lower tier services, which are commissioned by clinical commissioning groups. It does not take a genius to work out that that arrangement results in the perverse incentive for CCGs to refer children to tier 4 in-patient services, because they do not have to pay for them, rather than treat them in the community, where they have to fund the places. We know that treatment in the community can be so much better for many of those young people’s outcomes and their long-term recovery, but the current situation is exacerbating many issues and problems. The Minister himself has said that current fragmented commissioning arrangements make “no sense” and are “dysfunctional”. It would be helpful to hear from him what more the Government plan to do to address the situation. In their response to the Committee, the Government said that their taskforce would look at determining a way in which commissioning can be sufficiently integrated. Given that we had to read about the taskforce conclusions on the pages of The Times a couple of weeks ago, perhaps the Minister will do us the courtesy of updating the House on what action the Government will take. The Government have also announced that NHS England has funded eight pilots looking into collaborative joint commissioning arrangements for children and young people’s mental health, so it would be really helpful to have an update on the progress of those pilots. The commissioning confusion caused by the NHS reorganisation would be a challenge in itself, but, combined with the cuts to local authority CAMHS and early intervention services, it is having a devastating impact. There has been £50 million-worth of cuts to CAMHS since 2010. There have also been cuts to local authority CAMHS and to early intervention in psychosis services, a reduction in social workers and a decimation of the early intervention grant in many parts of the country, which is putting pressure on in-patient services, particularly in areas with higher levels of deprivation. I listened to the speech by the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) , but Liverpool’s budget has been cut by 56%. The idea that Liverpool city council is not interested in youth services could not be further from the truth, but the reality is that applying the funds available to it to youth services is incredibly challenging. According to research by YoungMinds, two thirds of councils in England have reduced their CAMHS budget since 2010. When the charity asked NHS trusts and councils about other mental health spending targeted at children and young people, such as youth counselling or specific services for schools, it found that more than half of them had cut their budgets, some by as much as 30%. It is therefore unsurprising that the Committee reported that poor provision of lower tier services has likely been a key factor in the increase in the number of children and young people requiring admission to in-patient services. In their response the Government refer to extra funding for early intervention in psychosis services and crisis care, but will that not merely take us back to where we were before these cuts? What proportion of the new funding that the Minister has announced will be directed towards services for under 18s? I am particularly interested in the work of the Government’s taskforce on ways to incentivise investment in early intervention—again, it would be helpful to have an update on that. Will the Minister match the Opposition’s ambition to increase the proportion of the mental health budget that is spent on children over time—again, that point has been raised by hon. Members on both sides of the House? Schools are an obvious place for prevention work to take place, and I was interested to hear the intervention from the hon. and learned Member for North East Hertfordshire (Sir Oliver Heald) about the experience of schools in his area. The Committee found that in too many schools counselling services are unavailable, even though they can provide lower level preventive intervention that can stop problems from subsequently becoming more serious. Again, will the Minister update the House on his work with colleagues in the Department for Education to improve that situation? Will he meet the Opposition’s commitment to produce a strategy to help local authorities with their local NHS and schools to work together, to ensure that all children can access school-based counselling or therapy if they need it? Does he agree that in future all teachers should have training in child mental health so that they are equipped to identify, support and refer children with mental health problems? A few other issues were raised in the debate, although I am conscious that we want to hear from the Minister and I have just three minutes to respond. The work force were mentioned, as was ensuring that all GPs are trained in mental health. The Opposition have committed to ensuring that training for all professional staff in the NHS includes mental health. Does the Minister support that ambition? Data were mentioned by Members on both sides of the House, and up-to-date data and information are critical to provide safe and effective services that meet the needs of children, young people, their families and carers. I share the Committee’s concern that the most recent data from the Office for National Statistics on children and young people’s mental health are now 10 years old, and the Minister said that CAMHS has been operating in a fog without that information. I welcome the commitment to a new national prevalence survey of child and adolescent mental health data, and that that is a priority. Again, it would be helpful to have an update on that. Can the Minister set out the time frame for work that will take place before February 2016 when we understand that that data set will start? In conclusion, as we have heard, significant questions remain. Much of the Government’s response to the Committee’s report has referred to the work of the CAMHS taskforce, which the Minister has established and is yet formally to publish its report, even though elements of it have been leaked to the press. It would be helpful for the Minister to update the House on when the taskforce report will be published in full, and to say whether he intends to follow it with tangible action—I appreciate that there will be recommendations, but it would be helpful to know what the Government intend to do. Children and young people are struggling with mental illness, and in some cases their illness is becoming so severe that they are turning up in A and E—just this week a response to a parliamentary question showed that young people are turning up in A and E with mental illness not just once but two, three, four or five times. They often wake up in hospital beds too many miles from their families and friends, and are simply not receiving any help at all. We are having this debate on their behalf, and I hope the Minister will tell the House what action he will be taking to put that situation right. We must get to a point where a child can feel that it is as safe to talk about their mental health as about their physical health, and where all children feel that they can tell someone about their anxiety as easily as they can speak about their headache or a stomach bug. Crucially, when they do that they must get the help they need, when and where they need it. I look forward to the Minister’s response.
2015-03-03b.911.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Norman Lamb	The debate has been undertaken in a rational way—we have not had the hurling of abuse from one side to the other. My hon. Friend the Member for Windsor (Adam Afriyie) said that the report is objective and that it analyses problems and seeks to come up with solutions. The debate has been conducted in that way, which I welcome. I am grateful to the Health Committee for its work, and for the inspired leadership of my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) , who speaks with great authority on the subject. She is a force for good in this place. I thank her for her leadership. My hon. Friend said that the report was triggered by the awful practice of youngsters being shunted around the country in the middle of a crisis. The situation with adults is just as bad. That practice should not happen other than where there is a specialist need and a specialist service that cannot, with the best will in the world, be provided in every locality. We have sought to analyse the causes of out-of-area placements. We see enormous variation around the country. Many areas do not do it, but where it does happen, we believe that simple steps could be taken to stop it. In my view, they must be taken.
2015-03-03b.912.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Roger Williams	Because of the Minister’s visit to my constituency, he will be aware that young people from Wales are being treated in Kent and Northampton. Does he agree that that will do nothing to provide decent service, care and treatment for them?
2015-03-03b.912.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Norman Lamb	I agree. It is intolerable. One can only imagine the impact on the family having to travel such long distances. My hon. Friend and I had that discussion in Brecon with the family concerned. It is shocking that that practice continues. It must be a priority. My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes said that the importance of early intervention is a central theme of the report. There is great scope for much more to be done on public mental health. It was revealed recently that a tiny proportion of public health budgets in localities is spent on public mental health, and yet we know—there is loads of evidence—that, if we invest in public mental health, we can achieve a significant return on it. I welcome the report. The hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) talked about what young people had told him. It was great that they were given a voice directly in this place. I welcome his comments. In a very thoughtful speech, as always, my hon. Friend the Member for Southport (John Pugh) talked about a continuum. Many of us are susceptible to poor mental health in certain circumstances. That makes the point about the importance of schools, which other hon. Members mentioned, in building resilience and keeping youngsters stronger so that they can cope with all the challenges they inevitably face these days. The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) talked about Malachi, an organisation he was involved with, and about the triggers that can cause mental ill health among youngsters. Family breakdown is one, but bereavement can have a significant impact, as can bullying at school, which another hon. Member mentioned.
2015-03-03b.912.2	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Robert Flello	Will the Minister give way?
2015-03-03b.912.3	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Norman Lamb	I am conscious that I need to get through quite a lot in the time available to me. I thank my hon. and learned Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire (Sir Oliver Heald) for his kind comments. He was absolutely right about the potential for online access. The hon. Member for Windsor made a similar point. There is enormous potential. One platform is called Kooth. Good evidence is developing about the impact that online access can have. Given that so many youngsters with poor mental health get no support at all, we can do a lot to increase access, not as a replacement for other services, but as a complement. He, too, talked about the importance of the role of schools. I worked in Parliament as a junior researcher in 1980, for a Labour MP. I shared an office with the secretary of the hon. Member for Coventry North West (Mr Robinson) . He is still here 35 years later. He is clearly the great survivor. He referred to the most appalling wait of 44 weeks in Coventry, which is totally unacceptable. I do not know what is going wrong in that locality, but that is not matched in many other places. There may be particular problems that need to be faced. In a way, that makes the case I have been making throughout my time as Minister that the same access and waiting time standards for physical health should exist for mental health. That is the big discrimination against mental health, and it has existed for a very long time.
2015-03-03b.913.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Ian Mearns	Waiting times are so much more crucial for children and young people with mental health issues.
2015-03-03b.913.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Norman Lamb	I totally agree. When I embarked on the mission to introduce waiting time standards in mental health, I was very clear throughout that they must apply equally in children’s services, as in any other service. One of the first two standards we are introducing from April this year is a two-week standard to start treatment for early intervention in psychosis, where there is a wealth of evidence that quick intervention can lead to good results. My hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) talked about the absolute importance of youngsters learning about mental health at school. It ought to be part of the curriculum, and we would benefit a lot if that was the case. He also made the important point that although lots of areas of the country have seen really ridiculous disinvestment in mental health and children’s mental health, other enlightened areas have not done that. There is no necessity for it to happen; it depends on what the local priorities are. In his area they have done the right thing and made the necessary investment. The hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) talked about the horror of suicide. The husband of my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes is a psychiatrist in Devon. He has been a brilliant advocate of the case for a zero-suicide ambition. Every organisation within the NHS ought to be setting the same ambition that has been set in Devon. The Government have prioritised improving mental health as part of our commitment to achieving parity of esteem, or, as I would prefer to call it, equality. I have been frank that the current system for supporting children and young people’s mental health is simply not good enough, but let us be clear that this is not a new problem. Previous reviews into CAMHS have identified similar issues to those that the Committee highlights, such as a lack of beds, complex commissioning and referral arrangements, poor practice around transition from children to adult services, and instances of children being treated far from home or on adult wards. These issues are deep-seated and hard to resolve. Lord Crisp was recently quoted in the Health Service Journal , when asked about parity of esteem: “If something has developed over 40 or 50 years you don’t solve it in five minutes.” I know a youngster who in the past decade was horribly let down by mental health services at that time. This is not something that has just emerged over the course of this Parliament. I fully recognise that too many areas of the country have disinvested in young people’s mental health. I firmly believe that the situation can and must improve. The Government have taken steps to do this. It is worth saying that, as I have done this job, I have seen some really impressive services. There is a brilliant NHS team in Accrington providing the best possible service to young people. I visited South London and Maudsley, where there is a fantastic eating disorder service based on the quickest intervention, with specialist support for youngsters very quickly reducing massively in-patient admissions. That is the sort of service we need to see across the country. There is a brilliant in-patient facility in Colchester, where there is a great school in the mental health service so that youngsters do not lose out on their education while they are receiving support. There are some brilliant third sector organisations. MAC-UK is a wonderful organisation, which takes therapy out on to the streets to support youngsters who get involved in gangs, rather than expecting youngsters in those circumstances to visit traditional services. MAP—the Mancroft Advice Project—in Norwich is a brilliant service supporting youngsters in a non-stigmatising way. Since 2010, we have raised the profile of children and young people’s mental health to unprecedented levels. We have produced the mental health and suicide prevention strategies, set out the top 25 priorities to help to achieve parity of esteem in the “Closing the gap” document last year, and we have worked, through Time to Change, to reduce the stigma attached to mental health issues. The 2014-15 mandate to NHS England sets it a clear objective to deliver equality and parity of esteem, and in 2014 we published our five-year vision for mental health. At its heart was a radical change: an ambition to set access and waiting time standards for mental health—just as they exist for physical health—including children and young people’s mental health, for all services by 2020. That is a landmark step in rebalancing our health and care system and achieving equality.
2015-03-03b.914.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Geoffrey Robinson	It is good to hear that the Government are setting those targets. Will the Minister have a look at the situation in Coventry and explain to me why that has happened? Can he also confirm that the targets he has set will be achievable, despite the £50 million cut that has been made?
2015-03-03b.914.1	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Norman Lamb	I am very happy to look at Coventry if the hon. Gentleman wants to send me a note about that. I make the case that there needs to be more investment in mental health, and my party has argued for £500 million of additional investment a year in mental health in the next Parliament. Investing £54 million for the children and young people’s IAPT—improving access to psychological therapies—programme has started to transform existing services, and it now covers 68% of the nought to 19-year-old population, which exceeds the original target of 60% by 2015. NHS England continues to plan for nationwide roll-out, as set out in the mandate, which should be achieved by 2018. As part of the autumn statement, the Deputy Prime Minister and I announced £150 million of investment over the next five years to deal with eating disorders. This will help to ensure that any young person can get the help they need, no matter where they live, and will allow the development of waiting time standards for eating disorders from 2016. This is a condition that can kill, so it is so important that we get early access. We have invested £3 million in MindEd, a digital resource to help people who work with young people and children. It is an online platform designed to give them the help that they need in the work that they do. The prevalence survey is being undertaken—we have secured the money for it—and we plan for it to be ready by 2017. The aim is for it to cover children and young people from two years to 19 years, which is a wider range than in the original survey. That should be widely welcomed. As for the taskforce, although there has been much progress, the Government have been open about the scale of the challenge and acknowledged that there is still much to do. As the Committee is aware, I set up the taskforce last summer. It is chaired jointly by the Department and NHS England and brings together a whole load of experts from outside Whitehall and listens to the voice of young people as well. This is a massive opportunity fundamentally to modernise the way that children and young people’s health services operate, embracing the role of the voluntary sector and the potential for online support for youngsters, and sorting out this ridiculous, fragmented commissioning. The problem has been there for a long time, but things need to be made much simpler, so that we can have coherent services that are easily understandable for children and their families. If we can grasp this opportunity, we can make a massive difference for young people. Let me say a word about crisis care. In a way, this is the area where the gap between physical and mental health is greatest. The Torbay case that my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes mentioned was a shock to the system, although we have already seen considerable reductions in the number of young people going into police stations. We are on course to see a reduction of about 30% this year, but it needs to be much greater than that. In my view, we need to legislate to end the practice completely. It is surely completely unacceptable that young people under the age of 18 end up in police cells rather than in a hospital. That practice simply has to come to an end. I applaud everyone who has participated in this debate on a really important subject. I think we have an opportunity massively to improve things.
2015-03-03b.915.0	ESTIMATES 2014-15 — DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS	Department of Health — Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services	Mr Speaker	We thank the Minister whose sense of timing is almost immaculate. I know that he intended that this debate should finish at seven o’clock, which it has done. Question deferred ( Standing Order No. 54 ). The Speaker put the deferred Questions ( Standing Order No. 5 4 ) .
2015-03-05a.1057.7	TRANSPORT	Airports Commission	Mary Macleod	What recent progress has been made by the Airports Commission. The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick McLoughlin): The Airports Commission recently completed a consultation on 3 February on its assessment of proposals for additional runway capacity. The commission is continuing to undertake further analyses on the shortlist of runway options before publishing its final report in the summer of 2015.
2015-03-05a.1057.8	TRANSPORT	Airports Commission	Mary Macleod	May I congratulate the Government on their policy on no third runway at Heathrow? Does the Secretary of State agree that the aviation industry would be best served by a solution that encourages competition; can be delivered sooner, cheaper and easier; takes into account the impact on local residents; and does not require billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money?
2015-03-05a.1057.9	TRANSPORT	Airports Commission	Patrick McLoughlin	My hon. Friend has been very consistent in her opposition to any third or fourth runway at Heathrow, and I know she supports the expansion of other airports. I look forward to receiving the commission’s recommendations and report this summer and to my hon. Friend’s comments on it.
2015-03-05a.1057.10	TRANSPORT	Airports Commission	Jim Fitzpatrick	Have we not just wasted another five years? The coalition has delayed building new runway capacity for the south-east because the Liberal Democrats are in denial about aviation being a very important economic instrument. I think the Conservative party now get it. Why have we had to wait another five years?
2015-03-05a.1057.11	TRANSPORT	Airports Commission	Patrick McLoughlin	I will not take any lessons from a party that wasted 13 years in not doing anything about extra capacity. It is a bit rich of the hon. Gentleman to accuse the Government of not taking action. The truth is that all the options that are being discussed by the commission are very different from the proposals considered by the previous Government.
2015-03-05a.1058.0	TRANSPORT	Airports Commission	Cheryl Gillan	Has the Secretary of State asked the Airports Commission to examine the cumulative impact of any runway extension at Heathrow and how it would affect the local area if it coincided with other projects, such as the construction of HS2, the Amersham waste transfer station and the development of Newland park? What assessment has been made of the impact on the local area?
2015-03-05a.1058.1	TRANSPORT	Airports Commission	Patrick McLoughlin	The commission is doing a comprehensive piece of work looking at all the options relating to aviation capacity in the south-east and the associated infrastructure projects that any project it suggests will affect, so I am sure it will have considered the points made by my right hon. Friend.
2015-03-05a.1058.2	TRANSPORT	Airports Commission	John Randall	Notwithstanding whichever decision the Davies commission comes to, does my right hon. Friend agree that connectivity to Heathrow is now being sorted pretty efficiently through Old Oak Common and that there is no further need for the Heathrow spur should HS2 go ahead?
2015-03-05a.1058.3	TRANSPORT	Airports Commission	Patrick McLoughlin	This may be the last time I am able to address my right hon. Friend in this Chamber. It has been a great pleasure to work with him over many years. He has made a huge contribution, not only to the House of Commons and the Conservative party, but in standing up for his constituents in Uxbridge. I agree with my right hon. Friend that these matters need to be addressed very carefully. Of course, at the moment the whole question of HS2 is being studied by a Committee. I am not going to trespass on the valuable and important work it is doing, but my right hon. Friend makes some valid points. The importance that Old Oak Common will have to the infrastructure of this country is vast indeed, and I hope to be able to say a bit more about that shortly.
2015-03-05a.1058.5	TRANSPORT	Rural Railway Stations	Laurence Robertson	What recent discussions he has had with train operating companies on increasing the use of rural railway stations; and if he will make a statement.
2015-03-05a.1058.6	TRANSPORT	Rural Railway Stations	Patrick McLoughlin	Officials regularly meet train operating companies where usage is a key discussion point. We are working hard with the industry to increase rural station usage. We recognise the important social role of stations in building communities, and have therefore introduced a new policy requirement to develop social and community development plans in new franchises.
2015-03-05a.1058.7	TRANSPORT	Rural Railway Stations	Laurence Robertson	I thank the Secretary of State for that response. Does he agree that one way we can get cars off the road and reduce congestion on our motorways and, indeed, on smaller roads is to develop rural train stations? We have one at Ashchurch for Tewkesbury, which is a very good station, but it is underused at the moment. Can we try to make such stations better used by train operating companies?
2015-03-05a.1059.0	TRANSPORT	Rural Railway Stations	Patrick McLoughlin	The answer to my hon. Friend’s question is yes. Ashchurch for Tewkesbury station has the potential for more use. I would welcome that, as I am sure my hon. Friend would too. For new franchises we ask operators to look at such questions in great detail. I acknowledge his comments, and no doubt Gloucestershire county council will make such points in due course.
2015-03-05a.1059.1	TRANSPORT	Rural Railway Stations	Caroline Spelman	As a result of the landslip on the Chiltern line, kiosks and shops at rural railway stations have suffered a drop of at least 50% in their revenue. Will the Secretary of State urge Network Rail to look at mitigation, such as reducing rents, during the period of disruption?
2015-03-05a.1059.2	TRANSPORT	Rural Railway Stations	Patrick McLoughlin	My right hon. Friend makes a very good point. I hope that there will be an announcement soon about the full reopening of the line. If that has not already been announced, I think it will be announced shortly. I will discuss her very good point directly with the chief executive of Network Rail. People with businesses who are renting from Network Rail have been directly affected by that landslip.
2015-03-05a.1059.3	TRANSPORT	Rural Railway Stations	Nigel Mills	One issue with encouraging the use of Ambergate station in my constituency is the strange fare system. Even though a fare to the next station is relatively cheap, the cost of a fare to Birmingham from both stations can be very different. Is there any way that the Secretary of State can fix the fare system to get rid of its anomalies?
2015-03-05a.1059.4	TRANSPORT	Rural Railway Stations	Patrick McLoughlin	I know Ambergate station very well, as the line goes up to Matlock and down to Derby. There are indeed anomalies in ticket purchasing on that line, and I am only too well aware of such frustrations. My hon. Friend makes a valid point, which I certainly want to look at. There are huge opportunities in ticketing, including with the development of smart technology.
2015-03-05a.1059.6	TRANSPORT	Bus Lanes	Andrew Rosindell	What plans he has to review vehicular access rights to bus lanes.
2015-03-05a.1059.7	TRANSPORT	Bus Lanes	Robert Goodwill	Decisions on the use of bus lanes, including any exemptions or exceptions, are for local authorities.
2015-03-05a.1059.8	TRANSPORT	Bus Lanes	Andrew Rosindell	I am sure that the Minister will be aware that a number of local authorities still do not allow ambulances to drive in bus lanes unless they are responding to an emergency. Does he agree that if an empty taxi returning to a taxi rank can drive in a bus lane, an ambulance returning to a hospital should be able to do so?
2015-03-05a.1059.9	TRANSPORT	Bus Lanes	Robert Goodwill	My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Although an ambulance can use a bus lane when responding to an emergency, it is otherwise up to a local authority to use its discretion on that matter. Indeed, local authorities such as Labour-controlled Manchester and Sheffield do not allow ambulances in bus lanes. I have written to every local authority in the country to make that point and ask them to bear it in mind when they make their local decisions.
2015-03-05a.1060.0	TRANSPORT	Bus Lanes	Gordon Marsden	The Minister has talked in detail about privatising buses and bus lanes, but the process needs more than warm words from the Government; it means bus lanes with strong local management and control of funding. Why will the Government not sign up to our franchising proposals to allow communities and councils to plan a network that includes the bus lanes they need? Why, instead of real localism, have this Government presided over a failed record, with bus fares up 25% and 2,000 routes cut, and a broken bus market, which lets users down, but which Labour will fix in government?
2015-03-05a.1060.1	TRANSPORT	Bus Lanes	Robert Goodwill	The Government have a very good record on buses. Bus companies, including the one in my constituency, have very full order books, because they are investing as never before in new buses on routes such the one north of Whitby in my constituency. We have a very good record to protect.
2015-03-05a.1060.3	TRANSPORT	Greater Anglia Franchise	Alan Haselhurst	When he expects to publish the invitation to tender for the Greater Anglia rail franchise.
2015-03-05a.1060.4	TRANSPORT	Greater Anglia Franchise	Patrick McLoughlin	The procurement competition has been live since the issue of the procurement documentation on 19 February , and applications are due on 15 April . An invitation to tender will be issued in August, with tender returns due in December 2015. Any delays in the process will result in a delay to the provision of any new rolling stock or services on the line.
2015-03-05a.1060.5	TRANSPORT	Greater Anglia Franchise	Alan Haselhurst	Is my right hon. Friend aware that a great many of my constituents expect that the successful bidder will be required, or at least incentivised, to bring in new rolling stock on the Great Eastern and West Anglia lines to replace the type 317 and 321 trains, which by now are old, uncomfortable, unreliable and inefficient?
2015-03-05a.1060.6	TRANSPORT	Greater Anglia Franchise	Patrick McLoughlin	We expect to ask bidders to provide a rolling stock strategy that meets the needs of all passengers in East Anglia, while providing a cost-effective solution. They will be in no doubt of the desire of all passengers using that route for substantially new rolling stock, and the rolling stock that my right hon. Friend rightly describes should be taken out of service in due course.
2015-03-05a.1060.7	TRANSPORT	Greater Anglia Franchise	Simon Burns	May I stress to my right hon. Friend that if there is no new rolling stock with the award of the franchise, there will be considerable disappointment among commuters and other users, and it will totally undermine all Network Rail’s improvements to the infrastructure? Current rolling stock on the commuter lines is so outdated that it has problems with acceleration and braking.
2015-03-05a.1060.8	TRANSPORT	Greater Anglia Franchise	Patrick McLoughlin	I completely understand the desire of my right hon. Friend for new rolling stock on that route and for improvements on the route overall. Norwich in 90, a very effective campaign, has been launched, and services to other towns are also quicker.
2015-03-05a.1061.0	TRANSPORT	Greater Anglia Franchise	Bob Russell	Commuters from Colchester pay some of the highest fares in the country, and successive Governments have failed significantly to improve the railway infrastructure. Does the Secretary of State agree that without implementation of the East Anglia rail manifesto, whoever wins the Greater Anglia rail franchise will find difficulty in improving the service between Colchester and London?
2015-03-05a.1061.1	TRANSPORT	Greater Anglia Franchise	Patrick McLoughlin	We have just seen the launch of the new east coast main line franchise. It is committed to reducing the cost of rail tickets, and I hope that anyone who competes for the East Anglia franchise will come forward with new ideas that will not only increase the capacity on that line and improve rolling stock, but look at the cost of tickets.
2015-03-05a.1061.3	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Richard Graham	What plans he has to improve railway stations to cater for increased rail traffic.
2015-03-05a.1061.4	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Claire Perry	To keep up with the unprecedented growth in rail traffic across the country since privatisation, including a 5% jump in passenger rail journeys last year, the Government have committed to significant investment in improving stations across the network by 2019. That includes £160 million in Access for All schemes, £100 million in station commercial projects, and £100 million for the station improvement programme.
2015-03-05a.1061.5	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Richard Graham	The Secretary of State recently had a chance to visit Gloucester and see the importance of an additional entrance and new car park at our train station, which will also be a catalyst for wider growth and regeneration. Will my hon. Friend confirm when she expects the Department’s negotiations with First Great Western on its franchise extension proposals, which include the improvements at Gloucester, to be completed?
2015-03-05a.1061.6	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Claire Perry	I thank my hon. Friend for his specific and helpful recommendations about the development of Gloucester station. He is a champion for rail travellers in his constituency. The Department is currently in negotiation with First Great Western about the new directly awarded contract that will provide services for three and a half years from September 2015. We carried out a public consultation last year, and I expect to conclude negotiations this month.
2015-03-05a.1061.7	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Louise Ellman	The chaotic and dangerous scenes at London Bridge station come after the major disruption at Christmas. How can the Minister ensure that the whole rail sector works together to put the interests of passengers first?
2015-03-05a.1061.8	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Claire Perry	Although I am a strong champion of the unprecedented investment programme going on right across the country, including the rebuilding of one of the most complicated and busiest stations in Europe, that cannot be done at the expense of passengers. I have had several conversations with the chief executive of Network Rail—most recently before questions this morning—and we are in constant contact with the station management team. It will take a joined-up approach from operators, Network Rail and the British Transport Police, and the system is feeding that service to ensure that passenger safety and comfort is not compromised. Clearly nobody wants crowded platforms—but this is not crowd control; this is passengers trying to get home after a long day at work.
2015-03-05a.1062.0	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Nicholas Soames	Further to that point, we all want to see improvements to these stations, but the deplorable failure of Network Rail in what is, of course, a very complicated scheme in any event and the failure of the train-operating companies to deliver new timetables within such constraints has led to inexcusable delays and inconvenience for my constituents. Will my hon. Friend consider giving all those people who have had to travel into London Bridge during this period compensation for the cost of their tickets to reflect the very serious conditions with which they have had to deal?
2015-03-05a.1062.1	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Claire Perry	I thank my right hon. Friend, who has been an assiduous commentator and critic of the current system. Like me, he is absolutely determined that this unprecedented investment is felt by passengers. That is why the Government are spending £38 billion on passenger improvements. I completely agree that a compensation scheme is required, and we are currently looking at providing one.
2015-03-05a.1062.2	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Barry Sheerman	Many stations in Yorkshire and the north will be affected by HS2. Has the Minister seen the startling information blogged this morning by Tom Edwards, the BBC transport correspondent, that evidence to the HS2 Committee suggests that hidden costs will raise the overall cost of the HS2 project from £50 billion to £138 billion? Are the Government misleading this country about just how much this folly of HS2 is going to cost?
2015-03-05a.1062.3	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Mr Speaker	I am not sure that what the hon. Gentleman said is as closely related to the terms of the question as he would have wanted, but the Minister is a dexterous character.
2015-03-05a.1062.4	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Claire Perry	I did not see the information because I was on the phone to the chief executive of Network Rail. A budget is a budget. Unlike the hon. Gentleman’s Government, this Government have a track record of bringing in major infrastructure projects such as the Olympics on budget and on time.
2015-03-05a.1062.5	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	David Heath	Travel to the west country is often massively disrupted by incidents between Reading and Paddington. Given the huge investment that has gone into Reading station, is it not possible to find alternative means of connectivity between Reading and London—Reading is virtually becoming a London station—so that people from the west country can get in and out of London perfectly easily?
2015-03-05a.1062.6	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Claire Perry	The hon. Gentleman—like me, he travels on that line—will have seen the many improvements to Reading station. It is not just a beautiful new station; there has been significant remodelling of the train paths, including a flyover of the freight line to reduce disruption for passengers. The hon. Gentleman will know that the Crossrail interchange, which will go to Reading, will lift about 10% of traffic off the rail network, giving passengers going to Reading a whole series of other options for connectivity right into central London.
2015-03-05a.1063.0	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Lilian Greenwood	Rail passenger numbers have doubled compared with 20 years ago—thanks to record investment under the previous Labour Government, including in stations such as the magnificent St Pancras. [Interruption.] Conservative Members may not like it, Mr Speaker, but it is true. Government Members try to take credit for projects we began, such as Reading, but we should look at their broken promises and record of failure instead. They make the dodgy claim that they are electrifying 850 miles, but only 18 miles have been finished, while electrification costs have doubled, essential projects have been delayed and the Transport Select Committee has warned that vital schemes may never be delivered. Is it not time for a change of Government, so that passengers get the services they deserve?
2015-03-05a.1063.1	TRANSPORT	Railway Stations: Traffic	Claire Perry	It’s the way the hon. Lady tells them. It is not 850 miles of electrification, but 889 miles—as opposed to the 10 miles delivered in the previous 13 years of supposedly record economic growth. I know that the hon. Lady is a frequent traveller from Nottingham station, which has benefited, of course, from £100 million-worth of investment under this Government. We will take no lessons from her.
2015-03-05a.1063.3	TRANSPORT	Lincolnshire Roads	Nicholas Dakin	What steps he is taking to develop the north-south road network in Lincolnshire.
2015-03-05a.1063.4	TRANSPORT	Lincolnshire Roads	John Hayes	It says here that strategic roads play a key part in driving economic growth in my Lincolnshire constituency and elsewhere. Most of the north-south roads in Lincolnshire are the responsibility of the local highways authorities. Nevertheless, equipped with our new statutory authority to ensure that route strategies are consistent and coherent with our national road strategy, I will make certain that my Department works with them and the local enterprise partnership to deliver optimal improvements. By the way, I think a meeting between the hon. Gentleman and me might serve that purpose.
2015-03-05a.1063.5	TRANSPORT	Lincolnshire Roads	Nicholas Dakin	I thank the Minister for his reply. I welcome his offer to meet me and other hon. Members from northern Lincolnshire to discuss the nature of the A15, which is a significant link from the developments on the Humber port down to Lincoln. It is a neglected road. The road system south of Lincoln is good; it is this bit of road that really needs looking at. I welcome the Minister’s offer and look forward to taking him up on it.
2015-03-05a.1063.6	TRANSPORT	Lincolnshire Roads	John Hayes	I know the road well and I think there is a case for further improvements on the A15, A16 and A17 in Lincolnshire. Of course, the A15 is Ermine street, a Roman road. It seems to me we should be no less ambitious for our world than the Romans were for theirs.
2015-03-05a.1064.0	TRANSPORT	Lincolnshire Roads	Martin Vickers	I welcome what the Minister has to say. As he will know, the A15 is a vital road for access to the port of Immingham in my constituency, the largest port in the country. It is Government policy to improve access to ports. Will he make that a major consideration when he meets me and the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) ?
2015-03-05a.1064.1	TRANSPORT	Lincolnshire Roads	John Hayes	I am conscious that Humberside MPs met, I think in 2013, to discuss just these issues in the Department. I was with my hon. Friend in his constituency very recently looking at transport matters. Actually, I think the Government can do better in co-ordinating the relationship between road investment and ports and other modes of transport. I think all Governments have neglected that and we can do more. I will certainly take up what my hon. Friend suggests.
2015-03-05a.1064.3	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Stephen Timms	What steps he is taking to increase levels of cycling and walking.
2015-03-05a.1064.4	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Robert Goodwill	The Government are committed to increasing walking and cycling. We have more than doubled the funding compared with the previous Administration. We added a section to the Infrastructure Act 2015 that places a commitment on Government to produce a cycling and walking investment strategy. In addition, our funding for bike and rail has put us on track to triple the number of cycle places at rail stations.
2015-03-05a.1064.5	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Stephen Timms	I am delighted that an excellent campaign forced Ministers to concede the cycling and walking strategy in the Infrastructure Act. When are we now going to get a strategy with proper resources and targets? When will Ministers implement the powers in part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004, so that councils outside London are finally able to enforce those powers against driving in cycle lanes?
2015-03-05a.1064.6	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Robert Goodwill	I am very proud of this Government’s record. Indeed, when we discussed this with officials on the Infrastructure Act they said, “But Minister, it doesn’t need to be in there. You are doing this already.” I said, “Put it in anyway to underline that fact.” I am very proud that, while we inherited £2 a head spending on cycling, we have increased that to £6 a head and in our cycling ambition cities we are already delivering £10 a head. However, I know that driving in cycle lanes is an issue of great concern to cyclists, whose safety is paramount.
2015-03-05a.1064.7	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Andrew Turner	I suspect the Minister will be too busy in May to attend the Isle of Wight walking festival, but if he would like to see initiatives that really work to increase the level of cycling, and indeed tourism, may I invite him to attend the Isle of Wight cycling festival in September?
2015-03-05a.1064.8	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Robert Goodwill	I must make a terrible admission: I have never visited the Isle of Wight, but I now have two very good reasons for doing so.
2015-03-05a.1064.9	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Maria Miller	Thanks to this Government, more than £35 million is being invested in roads in Basingstoke to reduce congestion. Will the Minister explain what he will be doing to ensure that that important investment will also benefit cyclists?
2015-03-05a.1065.0	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Robert Goodwill	We have made it absolutely clear that all our new road schemes must be cycle-proofed to ensure that we do not have a situation where a new roundabout or bypass prevents cyclists from making their journeys too.
2015-03-05a.1065.1	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Richard Burden	Confidence in road safety is key to increasing rates of cycling and walking, but after decades of progress, last year saw three consecutive increases in road deaths. Answers to parliamentary questions have revealed a dramatic reduction in the number of prosecutions for dangerous drink-driving and mobile offences at the wheel. With the number of traffic officers down by 23% since 2010 and apparently two years without any at all in Devon and Cornwall, whether these things are the fault of Transport Ministers, Home Office Ministers or even the Prime Minister himself, is it not the reality that the Government have failed to protect front-line policing and keep our roads safe? Is it not right for the next Labour Government to reintroduce proper targets to cut the number of deaths and serious injuries on our roads?
2015-03-05a.1065.2	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Robert Goodwill	We do have targets for the Highways Agency network, which we have control over. Other roads are the responsibility of highways agencies. When I stood at the Opposition Dispatch Box five years ago and put it to the Labour Government that we should introduce drug-driving legislation, they said it was impossible. I am proud to say that on Monday this week we gave the police the tools they need to prosecute those who put other road users in danger by drug-driving, and we now have the legislation on the statute book to do that—something that Labour said was impossible.
2015-03-05a.1065.3	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Nigel Evans	I note that the Minister has not been to the Isle of Wight, but has he been to Ribble Valley, where we have some of the best cycling areas and walking routes through some of the greatest beauty that one will find in England? Does he believe, like me, that if we can encourage more youngsters, in particular, to cycle and to walk, that could help with the problem of obesity, and that perhaps we could get Government, schools and local authorities working together to encourage people to have step monitors to give them some focus so that they can become healthier human beings?
2015-03-05a.1065.4	TRANSPORT	Cycling and Walking	Robert Goodwill	I have indeed been to Ribble Valley, which is a very beautiful part of the country despite not being in Yorkshire. It is very important that we get young people on their bikes. That is why I am delighted that we have delivered 1.6 million Bikeability places, mainly to young people, and we expect a further 280,000 places between April 2015 and March 2016.
2015-03-05a.1065.6	TRANSPORT	A69: Dualling	Guy Opperman	What recent progress his Department has made on the feasibility study on dualling of the A69.
2015-03-05a.1066.0	TRANSPORT	A69: Dualling	John Hayes	A round-table discussion was held with Transport for the North, local authorities and other interested stakeholders at the end of February 2015 regarding the scope of the northern trans-Pennine strategic study. That study will consider the possible dualling of the A69 or the A66, or both, and technical work will start in the summer of 2015.
2015-03-05a.1066.1	TRANSPORT	A69: Dualling	Guy Opperman	Dualling the A69 is needed for the long-term economic plan of the true north and is supported by all the local MPs and businesses, and by a number of petitions put forward by constituents of mine and constituents in Carlisle. My hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (John Stevenson) and I were able to show those to the Under-Secretary, my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Claire Perry) , last week, and I urge the Department to keep acting on them.
2015-03-05a.1066.2	TRANSPORT	A69: Dualling	John Hayes	You know, Mr Speaker, that Ruskin said that quality is never an accident and always involves intelligent effort, and my hon. Friend’s effort has been intelligence at its very height. He is right that this road, which runs alongside Hadrian’s wall, is an important route, for the reasons he gave—for the well-being of local people and the local economy. That is well understood by this Minister and by this Government.
2015-03-05a.1066.3	TRANSPORT	A69: Dualling	Mr Speaker	From the Romans to Ruskin: the right hon. Gentleman, who is, by common consent in the House, an extraordinary individual, never disappoints.
2015-03-05a.1066.5	TRANSPORT	A27: Worthing and Lancing	Tim Loughton	What recent progress has been made on the proposed improvements to the A27 between Worthing and Lancing.
2015-03-05a.1066.6	TRANSPORT	A27: Worthing and Lancing	John Hayes	Prior to the announcement of the road investment strategy in December 2014, I had the joy of touring the A27. Since then, the Highways Agency has started to realise our commitment to improve that road at Worthing and Lancing. To date, agency officers have held initial meetings with key stakeholders and begun work on the detailed traffic models required for this exciting scheme’s development.
2015-03-05a.1066.7	TRANSPORT	A27: Worthing and Lancing	Tim Loughton	The Minister will recall that there was dancing in the streets back in December when the Secretary of State announced the enhancements to the A27 around Arundel and Worthing. That dancing has subsided a little as the feasibility studies go on. Will he update the House on progress, on when we will hear further news about the likely work, and on the possibility of including some tolling at pinch points and flyovers, including on the old Roman bit?
2015-03-05a.1066.8	TRANSPORT	A27: Worthing and Lancing	John Hayes	It has been said, Mr Speaker, that I never disappoint, but I do sometimes surprise. I am delighted, therefore, to tell my hon. Friend that I will not merely update him on progress but can reveal that we will publish the feasibility study, a result of his efforts and our endeavour, immediately. I will let him have this report, which details exactly how we intend to move forward, shaped and informed by his efforts and those of his friends.
2015-03-05a.1067.1	TRANSPORT	Rail Delays: Compensation	Heidi Alexander	What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of compensation payments to passengers for delayed rail travel.
2015-03-05a.1067.2	TRANSPORT	Rail Delays: Compensation	Claire Perry	It is absolutely right for passengers to be compensated when their journeys are delayed. The Government have introduced tough new measures to ensure that that happens, and compensation payments across the network have increased sixfold since 2011. As the hon. Lady will know, we are introducing a 30-minute “delay repay” scheme on lines that have not already been making payments—as well as other enhanced compensation opportunities—during franchising negotiations and, when we can, during existing contracts. However, recent estimates by Passenger Focus suggest that only 12% of passengers who are delayed by 30 minutes or more go on to claim compensation. I am determined to address that, and, as operators will know, I believe that they need to do much more in this respect.
2015-03-05a.1067.3	TRANSPORT	Rail Delays: Compensation	Heidi Alexander	The right hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Sir Nicholas Soames) , who is no longer in the Chamber, was entirely right to call for compensation for commuters who experience severe disruption because of the works at London Bridge. Overcrowding on trains from Lewisham is even more severe than normal, and is actually dangerous. How can a compensation regime that pays up only when services are delayed by 30 minutes or more be relevant to my constituents, who can barely get on to a train irrespective of whether it is late or not?
2015-03-05a.1067.4	TRANSPORT	Rail Delays: Compensation	Claire Perry	I genuinely pay tribute to the hon. Lady, who is an assiduous campaigner for commuters in her constituency. It is very refreshing when Members in all parts of the House participate fully in the cross-party summits at which we hold the industry to account. The hon. Lady is right. There is not adequate compensation under the scheme to cover the metro-style train journeys that many of her constituents take. As she will know, some operators which have similar service patterns, such as c2c, have introduced minute-by-minute refunds—or will be doing so—but I intend to continue to work on a compensation scheme specifically for those affected by the works at London Bridge.
2015-03-05a.1067.6	TRANSPORT	Great Western Franchise	Duncan Hames	When he expects negotiations on the Great Western rail franchise to be completed.
2015-03-05a.1067.7	TRANSPORT	Great Western Franchise	Claire Perry	The hon. Gentleman will be pleased to learn that we expect to conclude negotiations with First Great Western and to finalise the second directly awarded franchise contract during this month, and expect the provision of services to start in September.
2015-03-05a.1068.0	TRANSPORT	Great Western Franchise	Duncan Hames	I thank the Minister for that news. When I led a group of 10 Members of Parliament from both sides of the House to meet the Secretary of State before Christmas, we urged him to include in the new franchise local services on the existing line between Oxford and Bristol. Does the Minister accept that even a service between Swindon and Bristol would be a great start in relieving overcrowding on that part of the line, and would be a vital first step towards the reopening of the station at Corsham?
2015-03-05a.1068.1	TRANSPORT	Great Western Franchise	Claire Perry	The hon. Gentleman continues to make a persuasive business case for that new service. As a Nailsea girl who was lucky enough to go from Nailsea comprehensive to Oxford university, I can tell the hon. Gentleman that it would have been a great service for me. As he knows, the Secretary of State has invited Members whose constituencies are on the route to work with their local authorities and the local enterprise partnership to present a collective business case. He may be right in saying that, as a minimum, a westward service from Swindon would be helpful.
2015-03-05a.1068.3	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Glyn Davies	If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
2015-03-05a.1068.4	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Patrick McLoughlin	My Department has continued to operate apace as we move towards the Dissolution of Parliament. Last week we introduced the new invitation to tender for the Northern Rail and TransPennine Express services, and transferred East Coast back to the private sector. That is a major step in a franchising transformation that places passengers at the heart of services. We also continue to invest in our roads. Fifteen strategic road schemes have been completed since 2010, and a further 16 are under way. Because local roads are equally important, we have committed £6 billion to them, up to 2021, in addition to the 27% increase in funding that has taken place since 2010. Funds for cycling have doubled since 2010, and we are committed to a new long-term investment strategy.
2015-03-05a.1068.5	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Glyn Davies	In my constituency and that of my right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson) , there has been a decades-long campaign for a new bypass at Llanymynech, which lies between the two constituencies. Will the Minister join the Welsh Government in developing a scheme for that purpose?
2015-03-05a.1068.6	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Patrick McLoughlin	I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this issue. Such a scheme has been identified in the draft national transport plan for Wales as contributing to access to services. We will discuss the matter further with Welsh Government officials to assess their priorities, but no one could have campaigned harder for it to be examined than my hon. Friend.
2015-03-05a.1068.7	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Michael Dugher	This week, following the Government’s privatisation of East Coast, Stagecoach released a trading update announcing that the privatisation would “significantly enhance” its profits. We know that the chief executive of Stagecoach, Martin Griffiths, is scraping by on £2.2 million a year—which, by the way, makes him eligible for the Government’s tax cut for millionaires, so his week is getting better and better. At the same time, Stagecoach is threatening to withdraw its buses from the north-east, simply because the local transport authority wants to do something about the fare rises and bus route cuts that have marked the Government’s failure and broken promises. When will Ministers condemn what Stagecoach is doing in the north-east? Do we not need a Government who deliver for the travelling public, not for the Stagecoach shareholders?
2015-03-05a.1069.0	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Patrick McLoughlin	What we need, and what we have, is a Government who are investing record amounts of money in our transport infrastructure—far more than the last Government invested in both capital projects and revenue projects. I can only take what was said in Transport Times by the editor, David Fowler, in his latest edition this week: “On rail franchising and speed cameras” Labour’s policies “seem to be going against the weight of evidence.” We have seen a dramatic improvement in our services, provided by the private sector. The Labour party is so opposed to the private sector and everything it stands for that it wants to destroy it, on the back of our seeing one of the most successful turnarounds of the rail industry in this country.
2015-03-05a.1069.1	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Christopher Pincher	I am grateful to the Minister of State for meeting me to discuss problems at the A5 Wall island, but while he is considering it will the people’s Minister ask the Highways Agency to look at the other end of the A5, the congestion from Tamworth to the M42—congestion made worse by more traffic trying to merge on to the A5 from Pennine way?
2015-03-05a.1069.2	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	John Hayes	Every meeting I have had with my hon. Friend has been a joy, as was the one yesterday. I have diagrammatic and photographic representations of the issue he raises, which I will deliver to you, Mr Speaker, and make available to Members on request. I will send officials not only to look at the matters we discussed yesterday, but to look at the matter my hon. Friend raises today, to see what can be done, but I have to say I think we should act in accordance with his recommendations, because I know he always champions his constituents’ interests.
2015-03-05a.1069.3	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Jessica Morden	Fare evasion is obviously a serious issue for the rail industry, but I have seen a number of recent instances where train companies have over-zealously pursued minor cases against constituents who have either been given the wrong information or might have made an innocent error. What is the Minister doing with train companies such as Arriva to ensure that there is clarity for travellers and to make sure that the rules are applied reasonably?
2015-03-05a.1069.4	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Claire Perry	The hon. Lady raises an important point. I recently launched a public consultation on exactly this matter, and I have urged the train companies to pursue such cases where necessary—where there is genuine fare evasion—but to be much more sensible where there are genuine mistakes. She is welcome to make her views and those of her constituents known in that consultation, and I would like to make those changes.
2015-03-05a.1070.0	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Duncan Hames	Tactile indicator cones play a valuable role in making pedestrian crossings safer for all people, and especially those who are blind and partially sighted. Unfortunately in Wiltshire they cannot be sure of finding these cones at pedestrian crossings when they need them. Will the Government incentivise all local authorities to retrofit these tactile indicator cones to pedestrian crossings and open up our streets to everyone?
2015-03-05a.1070.1	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Robert Goodwill	Tactile cones are probably one of the best kept secrets of our transport system. If one feels underneath the box on a pelican or puffin crossing, there is a small cone which, if held, rotates when the lights turn to green. It is very helpful for people with vision problems. They were developed by the university of Nottingham and there are 10,000 out there, and I encourage local authorities to retrofit as many as possible.
2015-03-05a.1070.2	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Hugh Bayley	In October last year the Prime Minister visited York and expressed publicly concern about congestion on the outer ring road, and in January a petition from business leaders in York asking for the dualling of the ring road was delivered to Downing street. What action has the Department taken since the petition arrived?
2015-03-05a.1070.3	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Robert Goodwill	I had a meeting with the chief executive of North Yorkshire county council, who works closely with City of York council, on addressing the problems on the northern ring road, and I hope that any scheme that is brought forward can also mesh in with the Hopgrove roundabout project which has already been announced. If City of York council wants to help the motorist it should think back to what it did on Lendal bridge and the atrocious way it persecuted motorists using that route.
2015-03-05a.1070.4	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Caroline Dinenage	I recognise this Government’s enormous investment in our railways, but I am keen to know when we might see some improvements in the London to Portsmouth line. It is still faster to get to Doncaster, which is twice as far.
2015-03-05a.1070.5	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Claire Perry	My hon. Friend will know that the Portsmouth to London line is not only hugely important for her constituents but a vital artery for people who are travelling up and down through the counties. One problem has been the inability to run longer trains into Waterloo station, where the “throat” has effectively been blocked for many years. We are now investing to increase platform lengths there, to unblock some of that complexity. Also, the draft Wessex route study is being undertaken right now to determine how faster trains can be run from my hon. Friend’s constituency.
2015-03-05a.1070.6	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Kerry McCarthy	I hope that the Minister will have been given notice by Baroness Kramer’s office that she is due to sign off £200 million-worth of funding for a bus rapid transit scheme in Bristol. I am very keen for the overall scheme to go ahead, but we have real concerns about one particular element of it in my constituency. Will the Minister tell me whether it is too late to seek alternatives to that element, which would ruin a wonderful community food project on my patch?
2015-03-05a.1071.0	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Patrick McLoughlin	If I am correct, the hon. Lady is talking about the opposition to the M32 bus-only junction. It is not for the Government to determine the design of the scheme, which is being promoted by the local authority as it knows the area best. Local authorities should listen to the campaigns led by local Members of Parliament relating to that scheme, to see whether the concerns can be addressed, but it would be difficult to change the scheme at this late stage and I know that the hon. Lady would not want to put it in danger of not being signed off in the next few days.
2015-03-05a.1071.1	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Robert Jenrick	Ever since the Romans built the Fosse way and the Great North road through our town, road hauliers have been an integral part of Newark’s economy. However, those hauliers have had to compete with foreign competitors on an uneven playing field for too long. Will the Minister update us on the success of the HGV road user levy?
2015-03-05a.1071.2	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Robert Goodwill	They say that Rome was not built in a day, but I was not the foreman on that particular job. I am delighted to report to the House that, despite being told when we were in opposition that we could not introduce a lorry road user charge for foreign trucks, we have done so. We predicted that it would yield £25 million in revenue, but it is on track to yield more than £45 million in the first year, levelling the playing field for hard-working British hauliers.
2015-03-05a.1071.3	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Stephen Hepburn	Sadly, but unsurprisingly, the Government ignored the views of the people of the north-east when they ploughed ahead with the privatisation of the east coast main line. Will they back the wishes of the people of the north-east in introducing a quality contract scheme for the operation of our bus services, so that the buses can be put into the people’s hands and taken out of the hands of profiteers?
2015-03-05a.1071.4	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Patrick McLoughlin	The simple fact is that we will see fantastic benefits from the new operation on the east coast main line. We will see more services to towns that have not been served before, and more services to the north-east. One of the things I was keen to do last week, in relation to the invitation to tender and to the north-east, was to consign the Pacer trains to the rubbish heap. It is important to get rid of them, and that is something that this Government, unlike the last Government, will deliver on. The bus scheme for Newcastle and the north-east is currently before the Department, and it would be inappropriate for me to take a view on it at this time.
2015-03-05a.1071.5	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-05a.1071.6	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	Time is against us, but I call Mr Alan Reid.
2015-03-05a.1071.7	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Alan Reid	Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am glad that Machrihanish is on the shortlist to become the UK’s first spaceport. It is far from any centres of population, it has a 3-km runway and the facilities of an RAF base, and I believe that it is the ideal candidate. I hope that the Department for Transport will support Machrihanish’s case.
2015-03-05a.1072.0	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Robert Goodwill	We are certainly looking at all the candidates in Scotland, Wales and England, and we believe that Britain will be at the forefront of the space race to get satellites into space cheaply and to introduce space tourism.
2015-03-05a.1072.1	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-05a.1072.2	TRANSPORT	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	Order. I am sorry, but we must now move on.
2015-03-05a.1079.2	Business of the House	Select Committees	William Hague	The business for next week is as follows: Monday 9 March —Remaining stages of the Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [ Lords ], followed by consideration of Lords amendments to the Consumer Rights Bill, followed by motion to approve a European document relating to the Commission work programme 2015, followed by general debate on the forthcoming nuclear non-proliferation treaty review conference. The subject for this debate was recommended by the Backbench Business Committee. Tuesday 10 March —Consideration of Lords amendments to the Deregulation Bill, followed by motion to approve statutory instruments relating to counter-terrorism, followed by motion to approve a European document relating to subsidiarity and proportionality and the Commission’s relations with national Parliaments, followed by debate on a motion relating to school funding. The subject for this debate was recommended by the Backbench Business Committee. Wednesday 11 March —Opposition day (19th allotted day). There will be a debate on a motion in the name of the Democratic Unionist Party. Subject to be announced. Thursday 12 March —Debate on a motion relating to defence spending, followed by debate on a motion relating to education regulations and faith schools. The subjects for both debates were recommended by the Backbench Business Committee. Friday 13 March —The House will not be sitting. The provisional business for the week commencing 16 March will include: Monday 16 March —Motion to approve statutory instruments relating to counter-terrorism, followed by motion to approve the draft Drug Driving (Specified Limits) England and Wales (Amendment) Regulations 2015, followed by the Chairman of Ways and Means has named opposed private business for consideration. Tuesday 17 March —Consideration of Lords amendments to the Modern Slavery Bill, followed by motion to approve a statutory instrument relating to counter-terrorism, followed by debate on motions relating to the reports from the Committee on Standards on the code of conduct and on the standards system in the House of Commons, followed by business to be nominated by the Backbench Business Committee. Wednesday 18 March —My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will open his Budget statement. Thursday 19 March —Continuation of the Budget debate. Friday 20 March —Continuation of the Budget debate. I should also like to inform the House that the business in Westminster Hall for the remainder of March will be: Thursday 12 March —General debate on the relationship between police and children, followed by general debate on violence against women and girls. Monday 16 March —General debate on a petition relating to veterans’ pensions. Thursday 19 March —General debate on the future of local newspapers. Monday 23 March —General debate on an e-petition relating to proposed increase in fees for nurses and midwives.
2015-03-09a.1.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (North West Norfolk)	Henry Bellingham	What change there has been in the level of unemployment in North West Norfolk constituency since 2010.
2015-03-09a.1.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (North West Norfolk)	Esther McVey	The claimant count in my hon. Friend’s constituency has fallen by nearly 60% since 2010, to just over 900.
2015-03-09a.1.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (North West Norfolk)	Henry Bellingham	That is encouraging and unemployment in my constituency has come down by a staggering 908 in the past year, giving hope to a large number of families. Following the story in The Sunday Times last weekend, will the Minister tell the House what support her Department is giving to people seeking employment?
2015-03-09a.1.8	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (North West Norfolk)	Esther McVey	I read the article in The Sunday Times about an episode of “Dispatches” that is being filmed in contact centres. Contact centres do not handle emergency hardship payments, as those are dealt with by Jobcentre Plus. Jobcentre Plus staff are fully trained and no one is sanctioned without being told about hardship payments. Awareness about benefit advances is being raised at the moment, and new posters and leaflets will be coming out in March once claimants have passed on their opinions and worked with the Department to get them right.
2015-03-09a.1.10	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Stephen Metcalfe	What support his Department provides to young people seeking employment or education.
2015-03-09a.1.11	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Rehman Chishti	What support his Department provides to young people seeking employment or education.
2015-03-09a.1.12	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Esther McVey	Work coaches offer all claimants tailored support from day one of their claim. Claimants in need of experience are guided towards work experience or sector-based work academies, and those who require more focused training are supported through traineeships and apprenticeships.
2015-03-09a.1.13	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Stephen Metcalfe	One barrier to young people seeking employment is that they do not necessarily have the correct skills required to take up the opportunities on offer. Will my right hon. Friend work with colleagues in the Department for Education and across the Jobcentre Plus network to ensure that local schools and colleges are aware of the skills that local employers need?
2015-03-09a.1.14	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Esther McVey	My hon. Friend is right and we must make sure that young people are properly equipped for the world of work. I know of an ex-businessman who ran a family business in printing. He knew who came through his door, which included young people who he wanted to give a job to, but they needed what people call “soft skills” and I like to call “core skills” for employability. We are working with the Department for Education on a new careers and enterprise company, and through the Inspiring The Future initiative young people are meeting business people to get a feel for what business and employment is all about, and we must support them as best we can. As my hon. Friend will know, we have increased work experience considerably and introduced sector-based work academies to that end.
2015-03-09a.3.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Rehman Chishti	Will the Minister welcome the initiative that has been set up in my constituency with support from DWP and the local Gillingham football club, along with Medway Watersports, to provide young people with skills and positive experiences to assist them in securing employment or further training?
2015-03-09a.3.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Esther McVey	I welcome the fact that my hon. Friend is working closely with Gillingham football club and its chairman, Paul Scally, who recently launched that help for young people, which is key. Various community and sports groups up and down the country are helping young people through the flexible support fund, and that should be highlighted. As many people as possible coming together to support young people into employment is key.
2015-03-09a.3.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	David Hanson	If things are going so well, will the Minister explain why youth unemployment has risen by more than 33,000 in the last two months, including a 10% rise in my constituency, which is not too far from hers?
2015-03-09a.3.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Esther McVey	I would like to get the record straight for the right hon. Gentleman because youth unemployment has fallen on the year, and has fallen considerably since 2010 by nearly 200,000. That is down to the work of this Government. There was a small rise of 3,000 in the last month, but the trend for unemployment is consistently downwards and the claimant count has fallen every month for the past 38 months—the Opposition would die to be able to deliver youth unemployment like that.
2015-03-09a.3.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Seema Malhotra	This week, at an event in my constituency, young people will be talking about how the world can improve for them, especially in terms of access to work. Why does the Minister think that youth unemployment has been rising while overall unemployment has been falling in recent months?
2015-03-09a.3.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Esther McVey	Again, I need to correct the record. It would be helpful if Opposition Members looked at the true youth unemployment numbers, which are down on the year and down nearly a fifth since 2010. Opposition Members delivered an increase in youth unemployment of 45%. Please stop scaremongering, get the facts right and go and help young people into jobs.
2015-03-09a.3.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Stephen Timms	I hope the Minister will at least take some note of her own UK Commission for Employment and Skills, which points out that the UK now has German levels of adult unemployment, but eurozone levels of youth unemployment. Some 40% of unemployed people in the UK are under 25. Youth Contract wage incentives failed and were scrapped eight months early last summer. Does she have any new plans to tackle the very high level of youth unemployment—nearly three times the level of adult unemployment—which, as my hon. Friends have rightly pointed out and contrary to what she has been telling us, has gone up in the past couple of months, not down?
2015-03-09a.4.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Esther McVey	What can I say to Opposition Members? They seem blind to the truth. The fact of the matter is that youth unemployment was going through the roof—there was an increase of 45%—and this Government have brought it down by nearly 200,000 since 2010. Working with businesses, we brought in an array of support, from work experience to sector-based work academies and wage incentives. We brought in a whole plethora of support. Some worked better than others—that is correct—but the aim and the outcome remains: youth unemployment is down by nearly 200,000 since Labour left office.
2015-03-09a.4.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Stephen Timms	There is not much evidence of soft skills in that answer. The part of the UK where we have seen real progress on youth unemployment has been Wales. Youth unemployment used to be higher in Wales. Thanks to Jobs Growth Wales it is not higher any longer. Is it not now clear that for young people to benefit fully from the recovery that is under way, we need the young people’s job guarantee right across the UK?
2015-03-09a.4.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Young People Seeking Employment or Education	Esther McVey	I am afraid it is the right hon. Gentleman who has soft skills. I have core skills in telling the truth: youth unemployment is down 200,000 since he left office. We do not need a job guarantee scheme, which does not work and costs an incredible amount of money. The work experience scheme we brought in is delivering better results at a twentieth of the cost. You bring in Labour, you pay a lot more for a lot less results.
2015-03-09a.4.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	Adam Afriyie	What assessment he has made of the effect of the benefit cap on long-term unemployment.
2015-03-09a.4.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	David Davies	What assessment he has made of the effect of the benefit cap on rates of employment.
2015-03-09a.4.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	Iain Duncan Smith	The benefit cap is having a positive impact on people’s lives. I believe it is encouraging them to find work. The statistics show that. [ Interruption. ] Yes, they do. Those affected by the cap are 41% more likely to go into work than a similar uncapped group. It is under this Government that we are seeing long-term unemployment fall to its lowest level since 2009. The employment rate, at 73.2%, has never been higher.
2015-03-09a.4.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	Adam Afriyie	I had good cause this weekend to reflect on where I grew up. It breaks my heart to think that so many people spend such a long time on long-term welfare and state handouts. In Windsor, the number of people claiming benefits for more than a year has fallen by almost two-thirds, to just 70 people. That lifts my heart. Does the Secretary of State agree that we have a moral and social imperative to ensure that people are able to make their way from welfare to work and have a meaningful life?
2015-03-09a.5.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	Iain Duncan Smith	I agree with my hon. Friend. There is an element about fairness: before we introduced the cap, about £9 million a year was being spent on fewer than 300 families. When asked, 73% of the public support the benefit cap and 77% agree it is fair for no household to get more than the average working household after tax. It seems like the only group that absolutely opposes the cap is the Labour party.
2015-03-09a.5.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	David Davies	Does my right hon. Friend agree that our changes to benefits regulations have ensured that record numbers of people are now in work, and that this coalition Government are delivering jobs, prosperity and growth and that the only alternative from Labour Members is more debt, deficit and dole queues?
2015-03-09a.5.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	Iain Duncan Smith	As ever, my hon. Friend puts it succinctly—but that does not stop me answering his question. He is right. There are three figures that are really important. The Minister for Employment, my right hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey) , talked about bringing down unemployment. Under this Government, the International Labour Organisation 12-month-plus employment rate for 16 to 24-year-olds—the hardest to help—is down 59,000 on the year and 16,000 on the election; the 24-month-plus rate is down 30,000 on the year and 2,000 on the quarter; and of those in social housing, never, since records began, have we had so many households in work. That is the real reason for the Government’s long-term economic plan.
2015-03-09a.5.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	Meg Hillier	Those on both sides of the House agree that it is important to encourage and support people into work, but under the new benefit cap announced by the Prime Minister, there is not a single three or four-bedroom property that somebody could rent when they need that safety net.
2015-03-09a.5.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	Iain Duncan Smith	I think the hon. Lady is talking about the Conservative manifesto proposal—I am not sure what other cap she could be talking about.
2015-03-09a.5.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	Meg Hillier	indicated assent .
2015-03-09a.5.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	Iain Duncan Smith	She is nodding, but that proposal only brings the benefit cap back in line with average earnings, which are £23,000. Through the cap, the Government have delivered fairness to the system and an incentive to go back to work, and as a direct result, more people are going back to work than ever before. We are asking people to take responsibility for their lives, just as those who are working and are not within the cap take responsibility for their lives.
2015-03-09a.5.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	Emily Thornberry	Would the right hon. Gentleman like to meet a constituent of mine whom I met last week? She has polio, she fell down the stairs and broke her leg, and now she has to have a knee replacement. She is on benefits and has two children. The rent on their property is £400, and the benefit cap is £500, which means they are living on £100 a week. Would he like to meet them?
2015-03-09a.6.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Cap (Employment)	Iain Duncan Smith	I am happy to speak to anybody the hon. Lady wants me to speak to about this matter. I believe that the benefits system in the UK helps those in the greatest difficulty—there is plenty of access to things such as hardship funds if that lady is having difficulty temporarily after breaking her leg—but if it is the hon. Lady’s belief that a Labour Government would increase spending on welfare, perhaps she could encourage those on her Front Bench to be honest about it and say so.
2015-03-09a.6.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Frank Field	What the average monthly value has been of benefit sanctions imposed since May 2010.
2015-03-09a.6.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Esther McVey	The Department does not make an estimate of the amount of benefit withheld as a result of sanctions. The sanctions system is in place to ensure claimants comply with reasonable requirements in order to move off benefits and into work.
2015-03-09a.6.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Frank Field	Although the Department might not make estimates, outside experts do, and they now calculate that the amount of sanctions applied is greater than all the fines that magistrates courts in this country impose, but a fine in a magistrates court is imposed only after someone has been able to put their case. Might not the Government consider something like a yellow card system so that before a fine is exercised, people have the chance to bring in outside advisers to help them put their case more effectively?
2015-03-09a.6.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Esther McVey	The Government do not make estimates because they would be wildly inaccurate, like the figures that the right hon. Gentleman has given. That is because only a maximum figure could be given that did not take into account hardship payments, which could be 80%, or that people already had a job, and there would be so many inconsistencies. The last Government—he was a Minister in the Department—did not make such estimates either.
2015-03-09a.6.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Richard Harrington	Question 5, Mr Speaker.
2015-03-09a.6.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Mr Speaker	No, no. I was calling the hon. Member for North West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen) to ask about Question 4. Several hon. Members were on their feet in respect of this question.
2015-03-09a.6.8	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Andrew Bridgen	Does the Minister agree that it is important for us to acknowledge the role that sanctions play as the ultimate backstop in support of our welfare system, particularly as 70% of claimants say that they are more likely to abide by the rules when they know that their benefits are at risk if they do not?
2015-03-09a.6.9	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Esther McVey	Sanctions have been around since the benefit came into being, to ensure compliance, to enable the Government to have a backdrop to the social security they provide, and to enable the support to be matched by work to enable people to go into a job. As the secretary-general of the OECD said: “The United Kingdom is a textbook case of best-practice on how good labour and product markets can support growth and job creation.”
2015-03-09a.7.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Debbie Abrahams	Freedom of information requests to the Department for Work and Pensions have revealed that of the reviews of 49 deaths of social security claimants, 33 called for improvements into how the DWP operates nationally and locally. What changes have been introduced, and how have they been associated with sanctions on claimants?
2015-03-09a.7.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Esther McVey	As the hon. Lady will know, we are always improving what we do and always making things better. We brought in the Matt Oakley review to look at better communications, and we work with claimants always to ensure that sanctions are applied only correctly. We know that the vast majority of people work within the system. For employment and support allowance claimants, over 99.4% work within the rules, and with jobseeker’s allowance claimants, it is over 94%. It has to work, but we always look to see how we can get it better.
2015-03-09a.7.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Paul Burstow	Given how poorly served people with mental health problems are by the Work programme, and given the fact that the Minister told me in an answer that the Department does not currently have available to it information about the proportion of people with a mental health problem who are sanctioned, is it not time that the Government did that research and made sure that we had back-to-work programmes to help people with mental health problems?
2015-03-09a.7.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Esther McVey	We know that if people are on ESA and if they have mental health conditions, over 99.4% of the total are not sanctioned, as I said, so only 0.6% are. Again, we look to see how we work with people; and for very vulnerable people there is clear guidance on what counts as good cause, so they would know how and why they would not be sanctioned. We always know we need to do more. We have various pilots going on that seek better to understand people with mental health conditions.
2015-03-09a.7.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Mr Speaker	I am reminded of the feeling when one thinks the washing machine will stop—but it does not!
2015-03-09a.7.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Eilidh Whiteford	Over 143,000 benefit sanctions were imposed in Scotland in the two years from October 2012, and one in four food bank users are using them because of delays in the benefit system. Yet today we read in the Financial Times that the Tories are planning to cut 30,000 jobs from the Department for Work and Pensions if they win the next election, most of them in the nations and regions. Is this not a recipe for further chaos and misery? Do not both claimants and DWP staff deserve better?
2015-03-09a.7.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Esther McVey	For the sake of brevity and clarity, those figures are not true at all.
2015-03-09a.7.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	Benefit Sanctions	Mr Speaker	That was exemplary brevity and clarity, I must concede.
2015-03-09a.8.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Child Support Agency	Richard Harrington	What progress has been made on reform of the Child Support Agency.
2015-03-09a.8.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Child Support Agency	Steve Webb	I am pleased to tell my hon. Friend that the 2012 child maintenance scheme is now open to all applicants and is delivering a more efficient statutory service, including the option of direct payments, for those who cannot make a family-based arrangement. From January 2015, closure of existing CSA cases began.
2015-03-09a.8.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Child Support Agency	Richard Harrington	I thank the Minister and want to ask him a further question. For most MPs starting in 2010, this issue provided a lot of constituency casework for us, and the agency in question was often felt not to be fit for purpose, despite the good intentions in setting it up. What progress have the Government made in dealing with the fraud and error that has been so well publicised as existing in the system?
2015-03-09a.8.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Child Support Agency	Steve Webb	We recognise that further incremental reform would not deal with the long and deep-seated problems with the Child Support Agency. That is why we are closing all the cases on the existing system and moving towards a much more streamlined system. To provide one example of the improvements, we now get data direct from Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs rather than having to wait for non-resident parents to provide payslips, so we have prompt and accurate information to avoid arrears building up.
2015-03-09a.8.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Child Support Agency	Nicholas Soames	May I thank my right hon. Friend and the Government for the substantial reforms that they have made to the Child Support Agency, whose service as it was a few years ago is unrecognisable to us now?
2015-03-09a.8.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Child Support Agency	Steve Webb	I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for what he has said. We want to encourage people to sort things out for themselves whenever that is possible, but when they do use the new system, we offer a much better service than we did. For example, we now have what is known in the jargon as a web-based portal. People can log on and see how their accounts stand, and the system is so good that some have likened it to online banking.
2015-03-09a.8.8	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Paul Flynn	What assessment he has made of the potential effect on people subject to the under-occupancy penalty of a reduction in funding for discretionary housing payments in 2015-16.
2015-03-09a.8.9	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Mark Harper	We have actually increased the funding for discretionary housing payments to help those who are affected by the removal of the spare room subsidy, and, as the Chancellor announced in the autumn statement, it will be protected in 2015-16.
2015-03-09a.8.10	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Paul Flynn	Does the Minister agree with the Child Poverty Action Group, which has said that any degradation of discretionary housing payments will threaten to “cut the parachute cord” that keeps so many vulnerable families from the homelessness and destitution created by the foul bedroom tax? Will he give an absolute guarantee that the payments will be not only maintained in real terms, but possibly increased when necessary, and ring-fenced?
2015-03-09a.9.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Mark Harper	If the hon. Gentleman had listened to my answer, he would have heard me say that the level of discretionary housing payments relating to the removal of the spare room subsidy would be maintained in 2015-16, as the Chancellor said in the autumn statement. I listened carefully to the hon. Gentleman’s point of order about questions and answers last week. I think that my answer did relate to his question, and perhaps he should have listened to it.
2015-03-09a.9.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Anne McIntosh	What happens when district councils do not use the whole discretionary housing payment fund? Is it carried over? What steps is my hon. Friend taking to ensure that authorities spend the full amount that they are entitled to spend?
2015-03-09a.9.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Mark Harper	That is a good question. Last year, two thirds of local authorities did not spend all the money that the Government allocated to them. If the money is not spent, it returns to central Government and to whence it came—that is, to the taxpayer
2015-03-09a.9.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Andrew Gwynne	What has the Minister got to say to my constituent Mr Cocks, who has not only lived in his two-bedroom house in Denton for more than six decades, but was born there? This is not a house; it is his home. Last year he qualified for a discretionary housing payment, but he has been refused one for next year. Is this not yet another example of how cruel the bedroom tax can be, given that in a few years my constituent will be exempt from it anyway?
2015-03-09a.9.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Mark Harper	As I have said, the Government have made discretionary housing payments available to local authorities so that they can take specific facts into account, because they are obviously better acquainted with what is happening on the ground. What I would say to the hon. Gentleman’s constituent is that he should talk to his local authority.
2015-03-09a.9.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Greg Mulholland	Will my hon. Friend and his Conservative ministerial colleagues stop blocking the Affordable Homes Bill tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) and allow it to be passed before the end of this Parliament, so that some of these issues can be resolved?
2015-03-09a.9.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Mark Harper	I am afraid that the estimated cost of the Affordable Homes Bill is about £1,000 million. As well as having to find the money to pay for it, the hon. Member for St Ives would have to identify the other benefits that would need to be cut to enable us to stay within the welfare cap to which both Government parties and the Opposition have signed up.
2015-03-09a.9.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Helen Goodman	Each year, local authorities are spending nearly £200 million on adapting properties for disabled people. Then the Government come along and try to move them out of those properties by imposing the bedroom tax. Will the Minister now admit that that is a prime example of Tory welfare waste?
2015-03-09a.10.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Discretionary Housing Payments	Mark Harper	The hon. Lady still has not found anyone apart from herself to take up that slogan. She will know that £25 million of discretionary housing payment was made available specifically to support disabled people who are in adapted accommodation, so that the local authorities do not have to move them. That money is available, and local authorities should use it for the purpose for which it was intended.
2015-03-09a.10.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	Bob Blackman	What comparative assessment he has made of unemployment rates in the UK and other European countries.
2015-03-09a.10.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	David Rutley	What comparative assessment he has made of unemployment rates in the UK and other European countries.
2015-03-09a.10.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	Iain Duncan Smith	The UK currently has the 3rd lowest unemployment rate in the European Union, and it has fallen faster than that of any other G7 economy in the past year. Thanks to welfare reform and our long-term economic plan, businesses are creating jobs, and 1.85 million more people are in work than in 2010. For interest, that is more than the total population of Estonia.
2015-03-09a.10.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	Bob Blackman	The Opposition like to ally themselves to France, so I would like my right hon. Friend to inform the House where we stand in comparison with our neighbours in France.
2015-03-09a.10.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	Iain Duncan Smith	I do recall that the Opposition extolled the virtues of the French Government and what they were doing. It is worth bearing in mind therefore what would have happened if they had followed the French example—which I think they still plan to do. If the UK had the same employment rate as France, employment would be 3.5 million lower in this country. If the UK had the same unemployment rate as France, unemployment would be nearly 1.5 million higher. But there you go—the truth is that every time a Labour Government leave office, they leave unemployment higher than when they arrived.
2015-03-09a.10.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	David Rutley	I welcome the steps my right hon. Friend is taking to create jobs and reduce unemployment, which has fallen by 40% in Macclesfield over the last year. I have recently been on a delegation to Spain where we discussed the challenges they are facing of 25% unemployment and 50% youth unemployment, so does my right hon. Friend agree that it is absolutely vital for the UK to stick to its current course for the years ahead?
2015-03-09a.10.8	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	Iain Duncan Smith	Yes, I do. This Government—under the Conservative party—with our long-term economic plan, will stick to those plans, so we would continue to see unemployment fall. Spain has taken huge strides in trying to make changes, but they still have more to do, as they said to me, to deregulate the ways in which they work, but none the less they are at least making real efforts to do so, and they look to us for some examples. Our unemployment and employment rates are better, but I would like to think they are trying very hard to get there.
2015-03-09a.11.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	Grahame Morris	May I remind the Secretary of State that the UK Commission for Employment and Skills, which was set up by Ministers, has pointed out that 40% of unemployed people in Britain are under 25? There are 550 unemployed young people in my constituency. Is not the Secretary of State missing an opportunity to rebalance the regional economy, to address the skills shortages and to target resources at those areas that need it the most?
2015-03-09a.11.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	Iain Duncan Smith	Absolutely, but the point I would make to the hon. Gentleman is that I would love for somebody on his side to get up and say, “The economy under Labour crashed with a 6% fall in GDP.” Does he honestly think that had no effect on his constituents? [ Interruption. ] Since then, we have got unemployment down below 2010 levels and got employment levels up, and we are doing our best to reskill people through work experience and so forth— [ Interruption. ] —and for all the shouting on the Opposition Benches, they blame everybody else for the crash but they do not give us the credit for the changes and improvements.
2015-03-09a.11.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	Kelvin Hopkins	Would the Secretary of State like to thank the former Labour Government— [ Interruption. ]
2015-03-09a.11.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	Mr Speaker	Order. Mr Hopkins is on his feet, seeking to ask a question in his normally robust but courteous manner, and being shouted down by a Member on his own Benches. That is not satisfactory. I want to hear Mr Hopkins; the people of Luton North want to hear Mr Hopkins, the nation wants to hear Mr Hopkins.
2015-03-09a.11.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	Kelvin Hopkins	I am most grateful to you, Mr Speaker, for that help. Would the Secretary of State like to thank the former Labour Government for keeping Britain out of the euro, which is the principal cause of the devastation of the southern European members of the eurozone?
2015-03-09a.11.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Unemployment (UK and other European Countries)	Iain Duncan Smith	It is a very good thing that we are out of the euro—I am very happy about that. As far as credit is to be given, as the hon. Gentleman knows, I have been opposed to entry into the euro and my party was, under my leadership, absolutely opposed and continues to be so, and I am very pleased about that. May I finish by reminding the House of what even those in Europe say when they look at us? The OECD said of the UK that “the performance of the labour market has been remarkable!” That is the point: the rest of Europe says the UK has done better on employment and unemployment than anybody else, and that is down to the Government, thanks to their long-term economic plan. We have got it right; they have got it wrong.
2015-03-09a.11.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	“Not Just For Boys” Campaign	George Hollingbery	What progress he has made on the “Not Just For Boys” campaign.
2015-03-09a.12.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	“Not Just For Boys” Campaign	Esther McVey	With record employment and vacancy levels, the “Not Just For Boys” campaign is intended to encourage young girls and women to consider a career in an industry where they are traditionally under-represented. After just under a month, some of the UK’s and the world’s leading businesses are on board, as are schools, business women, companies such as BT, Microsoft and Diageo and organisations including Opportunity Now, the Construction Industry Training Board and Be Onsite. I could continue, but for the sake of brevity, I will sit down.
2015-03-09a.12.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	“Not Just For Boys” Campaign	George Hollingbery	A recent OECD report made it clear that gender differences among high-performing students remain stubbornly high in science, technology, engineering and maths—the STEM subjects. In 2012, only 12% of women entering university chose to study in science-related fields, compared with 39% of men, with all that that entails for women’s long-term job security and levels of pay. Does my right hon. Friend agree that this simply underlines how incredibly important it is that campaigns such as her “Not Just For Boys” campaign should succeed?
2015-03-09a.12.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	“Not Just For Boys” Campaign	Esther McVey	I do indeed agree with my hon. Friend. The campaign came about after we looked at where the jobs were going to be over the next decade. There will be 12 million jobs in fields such as IT, engineering and manufacturing, yet only 7% of girls were going into those subjects, so we knew that we had to do more—hence the campaign. Businesses came on board, as did women wanting to be role models. The Department for Education should also take some credit here, because there are now 10,000 more girls studying STEM subjects at A-level than there were in 2010.
2015-03-09a.12.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Universal Credit	Nigel Mills	What progress his Department has made on the roll-out of universal credit.
2015-03-09a.12.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Universal Credit	Iain Duncan Smith	We have begun the national roll-out of universal credit. Those plans are on track, and universal credit is now available in nearly 150 jobcentre areas for single claimants and in nearly 100 areas for couples and families. Universal credit will be available in over 500 jobcentre areas—seven in 10—by the end of the year, and it will be rolled out to all our 714 jobcentres next year.
2015-03-09a.12.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Universal Credit	Nigel Mills	In contrast to some reports today, the staff in the jobcentres in my constituency are looking forward to the roll-out of universal credit because they know the advantages it will bring to local jobseekers. Has my right hon. Friend made a recent assessment of the benefits of universal credit following the roll-out so far?
2015-03-09a.12.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	Universal Credit	Iain Duncan Smith	We have indeed. From what I have read of the reports my hon. Friend mentions, every single point made in them is wrong and misleading. We will be making our position clear on that. The analysis that he asks for has shown that the benefits of universal credit are statistically significant. Findings now show that, compared with similar claimants on jobseeker’s allowance, universal credit claimants spend more time looking for work, enter work more quickly and spend more time in work. They also end up earning more.
2015-03-09a.13.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Universal Credit	Anne Begg	The roll-out so far has been to specific groups of people with particular characteristics. That is partly because, to put it uncharitably, the original IT system does not work. If I were being charitable, I would say that it worked but with greatly reduced functionality compared with what was originally planned. However, the Department is piloting a digital solution in Sutton, Surrey, and I wonder whether the Secretary of State could tell us how that is going. When are we likely to get the results of that pilot? Can he tell us when the digital solution is going to be rolled out, given that it was meant to be the great white hope for saving universal credit?
2015-03-09a.13.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Universal Credit	Iain Duncan Smith	The IT system is exactly the same system, and it works in all categories. The difference is that we have rightly decided, in accordance with the Public Accounts Committee’s request, to roll this out stage by stage—we have been told that this is the correct way to do it—rather than trying to rush it, as was done with the tax credit system, which crashed. The hon. Lady mentioned the digital solution. Digital development and the online service are merging together, because the live service has many elements that will be used by the digital service anyway. This is a merging of the two services, and we will be reporting on that as we go along. It is successfully rolling out at the moment and expanding at the same time. I would be very happy if the hon. Lady wanted to go and visit it.
2015-03-09a.13.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Universal Credit	Steven Baker	I congratulate the Government on their agile approach to the roll-out of universal credit. Given that it is expected to come to Wycombe, along with every other constituency, in the course of the next year, will my right hon. Friend remind the House of the advantages that our constituents can expect from it?
2015-03-09a.13.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Universal Credit	Iain Duncan Smith	Apart from the technical changes, the reality is that at the moment when someone falls unemployed then takes a part-time job they have to sign off and go through the whole rigmarole of claiming tax credits with no one talking to them. Under universal credit, they do not sign off. They stay with their adviser, who helps them enormously in negotiating their way through all their job applications. There is therefore a human interface, which is much better and which will help people who are unemployed and who have difficulties. People can look forward to that.
2015-03-09a.13.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work Programme (Over 50s)	Bridget Phillipson	What proportion of people over the age of 50 who have been referred to the Work programme have found work as a result.
2015-03-09a.13.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work Programme (Over 50s)	Esther McVey	The objective of the Work programme is to move more people into sustainable employment, and so the available data relate to people’s job outcomes, not starts, which means they have been in work for three or six months. To September 2014, there were 300,410 referrals of people aged 50 and over, resulting in 42,750 job outcomes.
2015-03-09a.14.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work Programme (Over 50s)	Bridget Phillipson	The Work programme is failing older people, with the figures the Minister has just given meaning that only 13% of people aged 55 to 59 have found a lasting job as a result of the programme. What would she say to the constituents I meet, who are desperate to work and doing all that is asked of them yet feel badly let down by her Government?
2015-03-09a.14.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work Programme (Over 50s)	Esther McVey	The Work programme is the largest programme of its kind, helping people into work on an unparalleled scale. It is superseding all the expected levels and targets; it is better than anything that has gone before it.
2015-03-09a.14.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work Programme (Over 50s)	Tony Baldry	With the Banbury and Bicester job clubs, we seek to help people who are out of work to get back into the world of work, irrespective of age. Am I not right in thinking that 50,000 over-50s who are in work now were not in work last year? So 50,000 over-50s have found work in just the past year, and it is right that we should not write anyone off simply because of their age.
2015-03-09a.14.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work Programme (Over 50s)	Esther McVey	My right hon. Friend is correct about that. We are seeing what extra support we can give to the over-50s, which is why, with my right hon. Friend the Minister for Pensions, we have brought together the “Fuller Working Lives” document. It is also why we are looking at: how we can do extra IT; how we can do extra CVs and résumés; and how we can have older worker champions going into business to really sell the benefits of older employees, because it is key that they should be there to share their experience.
2015-03-09a.14.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work Programme (Over 50s)	Fiona Mactaggart	Can the Minister explain why the Work programme works less well for women over 50 than for any other group in the community? According to her Department’s own figures, just over one in 10 women over 50 actually finds work as a result of the Work programme.
2015-03-09a.14.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work Programme (Over 50s)	Esther McVey	I am not really sure where the hon. Lady has got her figures from. I have the figures in front of me and the one in 10 would refer to the number of employment and support allowance new claimants who found lasting work—that compares to a figure of one in 25 when they first joined and is well above the expected average, which would have been about one in 14. But we must remember that these people are some of the most difficult and hardest to help into work, which is why we have put this in place to support them. [Laughter.]
2015-03-09a.14.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work Programme (Over 50s)	Nick de Bois	When the Minister joins me on Wednesday in my constituency for her meeting with employers at my jobs fair, she will learn that many of them have started and wish to continue apprenticeships for the over-50s. Does she see a role for the Government in extending the programme to over-50s, with sufficient demand?
2015-03-09a.14.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work Programme (Over 50s)	Esther McVey	I do indeed, and what my hon. Friend is doing there is incredible, supporting people of all ages through job fairs. As there were peals of laughter from Opposition Members, they obviously do not understand how the Work programme works and who goes on it, because it is there specifically to help those who are the hardest to help into work and to give them extra help and support.
2015-03-09a.15.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Mary Glindon	How many disabled people have moved into work as a result of the Work programme.
2015-03-09a.15.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Esther McVey	The objective of the Work programme is to move people into sustainable employment, and so the available data relate to people’s job outcomes, not starts, which means they have been in work for three or six months. As of September 2014, there were 596,640 referrals for people with a disability indicator and 78,480 job outcomes paid.
2015-03-09a.15.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Mary Glindon	What does the Minister have to say in response to the recent Mind report, which stated: “Current government back-to-work schemes are failing people with mental health problems because they are not built on a proper understanding of why people have ended up out of work and what support they will need to move closer to work.”?
2015-03-09a.15.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Esther McVey	Mind also looked at the fact that all previous job schemes did not do enough for those with mental health conditions, who are the hardest to help and support. The Work programme tailors support to the individual, looking at an individual’s barriers into work. We have helped thousands of people with mental health conditions into work, instead of writing them off. There is more to do, so we are working and doing extra pilots to see how we can better engage with people with mental health conditions.
2015-03-09a.15.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Henry Smith	I was very grateful to the Secretary of State for visiting Crawley last month to see how successfully the Work programme was operating. Will my right hon. Friend join me in paying tribute to the staff of Royal British Legion Industries who deliver the Work programme in my constituency for paying great attention to getting disabled people and people with mental health conditions back into work?
2015-03-09a.15.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Esther McVey	Indeed I will join my hon. Friend in celebrating the work of the Royal British Legion and all the other charities and voluntary groups up and down the country as they try to ensure that there is a personalised plan and support for people looking for work. They do an invaluable job, and the people who go into such a field have a passion for getting people into work.
2015-03-09a.15.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Barry Sheerman	One of the greatest disabilities that stops young people getting a job is autism. Is the Minister aware that autism is predicted to cost this country £32 billion a year? Will she stop for a moment being the “hard-hearted Hannah” of the Front Bench and be a little more compassionate about disabled young people looking for work?
2015-03-09a.15.8	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Esther McVey	I understand a lot about autism and the extra support, help and work that we need to do. That is why the Secretary of State and I introduced the campaign, Disability Confident, which reaches out to employers and says, “Listen to the needs of the people and find out what we can do and how we can best work with these people.” I do hope that the hon. Gentleman’s comment was not sexist, as I have had very many such comments from the Opposition Benches.
2015-03-09a.16.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Stephen Mosley	One highlight from my first term in Parliament was meeting a gentleman who had spent 10 years out of work on disability benefits because of depression. Through the Work programme, he got a full-time job. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Work programme can give disabled people hope and opportunities for the future, whereas, in the past, they were left on benefits for life?
2015-03-09a.16.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Esther McVey	I totally agree with my hon. Friend. What this is all about is understanding how we can help people, especially those with disabilities, and getting them into work. I am glad to say that, over the past year, employment for people with disabilities has risen by 141,000. Nearly half a million people with disabilities have set up their own business. That is what a Conservative Government and a coalition Government can do.
2015-03-09a.16.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Kate Green	A moment ago, in response to my hon. Friend the Member for Houghton and Sunderland South (Bridget Phillipson) , I heard the Minister say that the Work programme was exceeding all its targets. Just 7% of those on employment and support allowance in the Work programme have got into jobs, compared with the tender document that said that, by year 2, a 15% success rate would be achieved. The programme is not achieving even half that. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of people are stuck in a queue waiting for a work capability assessment with no idea when they will be reassessed. The Access to Work programme, which should help people get into work and get on at work, is supporting fewer people today than when Labour left office in 2010. It is no wonder that the bill for disability benefits is set to be as much as £10 billion higher, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility. Is the Minister satisfied with that catalogue of failure and waste?
2015-03-09a.16.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Work programme (Disabled People)	Esther McVey	Once again, let me give the Opposition the latest and correct figures. One in 10 of ESA new claimants have found lasting work, which is above anything achieved in the past. What we expected was a level of one in 14, which was already there. Disability employment is up by 141,000 in the past year, and it now stands at more than 3.1 million. We are supporting disabled people into work and into education, and we are proud of our record.
2015-03-09a.16.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Road Traffic Accidents at Work	Meg Munn	What assessment he has made of the performance of the Health and Safety Executive in reducing road traffic accidents at work.
2015-03-09a.16.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Road Traffic Accidents at Work	Mark Harper	The Department for Transport leads on specific legislation relating to road safety, but the Health and Safety Executive does work with the Department for Transport and its agencies to produce joint guidance on driving at work. I understand from statistics produced by the Department for Transport that, in comparison with other countries, the UK remains one of the road safety leaders in the world.
2015-03-09a.17.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Road Traffic Accidents at Work	Meg Munn	More than three times as many people die when they drive for a living as they do in any other workplace. It is estimated that 20% of accidents are caused by sleepiness. Is it not time that we use the expertise that the HSE has used so well in other workplaces and apply it to people who drive for a living, and reduce the death toll from driving?
2015-03-09a.17.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Road Traffic Accidents at Work	Mark Harper	I know that the hon. Lady has been interested in this issue for a number of years following a tragic death in her constituency in 2006 involving a driver with undiagnosed sleep apnoea. The Health and Safety Executive works with the Department for Transport and the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency and their medical teams to ensure that people driving, particularly commercially, are safe. They will continue that valuable work and I know that she will continue to raise the issue.
2015-03-09a.17.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Julie Hilling	If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
2015-03-09a.17.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Iain Duncan Smith	Today I welcome regulations laid in this House to prevent migrant jobseekers from the EU from accessing universal credit if they have never worked in the UK. This is a clear reversal of the open door policy of the past under the previous Government and we are now delivering a fair system for those who work hard in Britain. It is also in line with the fact that more British people find jobs that ended under the previous Government. A higher proportion of the jobs are taken by British people, which means that more people are in work. With welfare having fallen in real terms and a fairer pension system, this Government, as we come to a close, have a record of which to be proud.
2015-03-09a.17.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Julie Hilling	An undercover reporter from “Dispatches” has found that staff in the Bolton universal credit call centre, where the system crashed nine times in 20 days, have been told not to inform claimants about same-day advance payment, the flexible support fund or the hardship fund, even though payments are taking at least five weeks to arrive. Does the Secretary of State agree that that is the correct way for staff to be told to behave and, if not, what is he going to do about it?
2015-03-09a.17.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Iain Duncan Smith	I did read the reports about that and they are wrong. The people the programme talked to are not responsible for talking to claimants about hardship funds. The people who talk about hardship funds are in the jobcentres and I can tell the hon. Lady categorically—she is more than welcome to look at it—that the advice given to them is explicit. They are meant to engage with people immediately if they have any suspicion or if they are asked about this. We are putting up posters in jobcentres to make sure that those people are aware of that and we are also ensuring that all letters on any sanction contain the elements that are relevant. The programme is wrong on this issue.
2015-03-09a.18.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Philip Hollobone	Since 2010, unemployment has halved in Kettering. Which Minister is responsible month on month for announcing the big reductions in unemployment we have seen and will she step forward to the Dispatch Box to accept the thanks of a grateful nation?
2015-03-09a.18.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Esther McVey	Obviously, I would like to thank my lovely assistants, who are sitting behind me, in a bit of a role reversal. We are led by the Secretary of State, who 10 years ago wrote about “Breakdown Britain” and “Breakthrough Britain”, and about what a compassionate Conservative Government would want to do by providing a ladder to help people who might have been left in despair to come forward, get a job and prosper. So, to him!
2015-03-09a.18.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Rachel Reeves	Since our last oral questions, the time it will take fully to roll out universal credit on the basis of the latest figures has increased from 1,571 years to 1,605 years, an increase of 34 years in just 42 days. Let me ask about the effect of the policy. In its original impact assessment, the Department for Work and Pensions said that 2.8 million households would be worse off when the policy is fully rolled out. Will the Secretary of States give us his latest assessment of how many households will be entitled to less support under universal credit?
2015-03-09a.18.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Iain Duncan Smith	The hon. Lady is nothing if not persistent with a useless question, so I will now attempt to answer. Universal credit will benefit the vast majority of households in this country. They will be better off, they will be in work more quickly, they will have longer terms in work and they will earn more. The latest work that has been done, which is independently assessed, shows that universal credit is a net benefit to society. It saves money for the Treasury and helps people. I would have thought that she would say that she backs it, but every time she gets to the Dispatch Box she spends her time trying to attack it. Does she not think that if she wants to be elected to government she needs to stand a little taller and be a little more responsible rather than just playing cheap politics?
2015-03-09a.18.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Rachel Reeves	Instead of lecturing me, perhaps the Secretary of State would like to answer the question. The truth, revealed in a written answer by the Minister for Disabled People on 3 February , is that another 200,000 households are set to be worse off under universal credit, because to make up for all the waste and delays on universal credit, the Government are reducing the support that they provide to low-paid workers. Is not the truth that universal credit—the one policy that the Secretary of State had to build a better benefits system and make work pay—is being continually scaled down and pushed back because of his inability to deliver anything that remotely looks like being on time and on budget, and are not the hundreds of millions of pounds spent on universal credit so far just another example of his welfare waste?
2015-03-09a.18.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Iain Duncan Smith	So there we have it: an Opposition who think that they will govern by innuendo and clap-trap. What we have heard from them is a lot of nonsense from start to finish. Listening to the hon. Lady, I wonder whether she is even the slightest bit prepared for government—although she will not be lucky enough to get into government. We heard another little speech from the shadow Chancellor today, in which he did not lay out one single policy on welfare, the economy or anything else at all. What we have from the Opposition—this is why they will not get into government—is constant nonsense, cheap politics and a total waste of time.
2015-03-09a.19.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Adam Afriyie	I think we must all welcome the Institute for Fiscal Studies report last week, which said that household median incomes are almost back to pre-recession levels. Does my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State agree that that demonstrates that sensible, competent economic policies in government make the difference to people on the street?
2015-03-09a.19.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Iain Duncan Smith	That is absolutely true. While the Opposition moan on about bits and pieces, the reality is that this Government have got on with getting more people into work, getting more stable incomes, and increasing incomes. The cost of living, petrol prices and food prices are falling, and people’s incomes are rising. This Government’s long-term economic plan is delivering a change and an improvement to people’s lives.
2015-03-09a.19.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Emily Thornberry	Last week Maximus told me that a disabled constituent of mine, who had been waiting more than a year for her ESA claim to be processed, could not be given a date on which that would happen, because many more people had had to wait longer. That does not exactly fill us with confidence, given that Maximus is taking over the Atos contract for assessing personal independence payment claims, or could the Minister give us some meaningful assurance that things can only get better?
2015-03-09a.19.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Mark Harper	To be fair to Maximus, it took over the contract only eight days ago. I remind the hon. Lady that the company that it took it over from, which had well-published problems, was appointed by a Government of the party of whom she is a member. We have been sorting out that problem. Maximus has been in place for eight days and will improve the position, but the hon. Lady needs to give it a fair crack of the whip. It will not sort out all the problems in a week.
2015-03-09a.19.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	John Pugh	Will the Minister tell the House how the outlook for women and their pensions has improved since 2010?
2015-03-09a.19.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Steve Webb	I am very happy to brief my hon. Friend. Tackling the poorer pension outcomes for women has been a long-term priority for him and for me. Our reformed state pension will come in during 2016 and will deliver a fairer pension for women. Millions of women have been automatically enrolled and so will have a pension of their own, on top of a decent state pension—the difference, dare I say it, that a Liberal Democrat Pensions Minister makes.
2015-03-09a.19.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Russell Brown	Responding on the issue of youth unemployment, the Minister for Employment painted a rosy picture, but she needs to take additional action in rural areas, especially those such as mine, where youth unemployment continues to rise month on month and the whole economy is based on agriculture and tourism. What additional support does she think she can genuinely give to areas such as mine?
2015-03-09a.20.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Esther McVey	We have provided a whole array of support. We measured what was working best and asked how we would roll that out. By working with businesses, we found that the answer was work experience, the sector-based work academies, and apprenticeships; we have introduced 2 million of those—and it is national apprenticeship week. Getting young people into a job is about skills, including employability skills, and we are doing as much as we can.
2015-03-09a.20.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Andrew Griffiths	My constituents in Burton and Uttoxeter welcome people coming to this country who want to work hard, pay their taxes and contribute, but they are concerned about those who come to take advantage of our benefits system. Will the Secretary of State reassure my constituents that this Government take that seriously, and will he outline what we will do about it?
2015-03-09a.20.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Iain Duncan Smith	My hon. Friend is right. When we came into office there was an open door policy—people could come in, be unemployed and claim benefits immediately. They could claim housing benefit. Since we have been in office, we have stopped people claiming housing benefit. They must be resident for three months before they can claim jobseeker’s allowance, and after three months, if they do not have a job or the prospect of a job, they will not be allowed to stay in this country. These changes introduced by this Government and the new ones on universal credit today mean that we are serious about this. Labour never was.
2015-03-09a.20.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Jim Cunningham	Has the Secretary of State seen the Citizens Advice report which shows that many ESA claimants are left with no money and are reliant on food banks after being told that they are too fit to claim ESA and not fit enough to claim JSA? Most have had to wait up to 10 weeks for a decision. Will the Minister look into this?
2015-03-09a.20.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Mark Harper	If the hon. Gentleman is referring to mandatory reconsideration when somebody is found fit for work, he will know that the average length of time taken to decide one of those is 13 days, not 13 weeks. He will also know that if someone is found fit for work, they are able to claim jobseeker’s allowance and they will receive support from the jobcentre to help them get back into work.
2015-03-09a.20.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Tony Baldry	In the past five years, how many people have moved from benefits into work? Is there any comparable five-year period since 1945 when so many people have moved off benefits into the world of work?
2015-03-09a.20.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Iain Duncan Smith	The record now for people moving from benefits into work is remarkable. Some 600,000 have moved back into work. Peak to peak, the figure is over 800,000, and we have many, many more people back in employment. There have never been as many people in work and that number is still growing, with some 700,000 vacancies in the jobcentres every week.
2015-03-09a.21.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Andrew McDonald	Some 35% of appellants succeed in overturning erroneously imposed JSA sanctions, yet the Minister denies setting sanction targets or expectations. If that is true, how does she explain such appalling performance statistics—a 35% failure rate that masks untold misery and grinding poverty for thousands of our fellow citizens?
2015-03-09a.21.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Esther McVey	I have repeatedly made it clear that there are no limits, no levels and no targets for sanctions. That is the case. We ensure that quality is correct so that people get this right. There will be quality assurance targets and measures that are put in place. The figures that the hon. Gentleman quotes are not correct. Somebody might be told that they have a doubt raised against them, and from that doubt, though they have not been sanctioned, 50% will end up never having a sanction, less than 10% will go on to reconsiderations, and much less than that will go to appeal.
2015-03-09a.21.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Chloe Smith	Very good progress has been made both nationally and locally in getting unemployment and youth unemployment down. The answers today show that we should not stop there and put all that at risk. Instead, we should go further. Does the Minister agree that we should be doing even more to help, in particular, young people with disabilities or mental health conditions into work?
2015-03-09a.21.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Mark Harper	I am pleased to agree with my hon. Friend. I know that she has held her Norwich for jobs initiative, which my right hon. Friend the Employment Minister has had the opportunity to go and see. We are keen to make sure that we improve performance in getting people on ESA back into work, and my hon. Friend will know particularly that we are trying a number of things in the area of mental health to make sure that we are more successful in that area.
2015-03-09a.21.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Chi Onwurah	For international women’s day I visited Westgate community college to see the fantastic work that it is doing to improve the skills of women of all ages and backgrounds, but I was told that this Government’s sanctioning policy means that many women cannot feed their children, and also that some women have to come to mandated courses within two weeks of giving birth for fear of losing benefits. Is this how the Government treat women?
2015-03-09a.21.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Esther McVey	I would like to meet the hon. Lady about these cases because I do not believe they are true. They certainly should not be true because if people had good reason, they would not be sanctioned. People have to take reasonable steps to get a job. We will need to get to the bottom of these cases because that would not be the case. We would not preside over a system where that was the case.
2015-03-09a.22.0	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Steve Brine	The jobless count among 18 to 24-year-olds in my constituency is down 79% since 2010. Does the Employment Minister agree that a degree from a good university is one route into work—and someone who goes to the university of Winchester will be among the 92% who are in employment or further education six months after graduating—but just one route, because one of this Government’s great achievements has been to give young people hope that there are other routes?
2015-03-09a.22.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Esther McVey	My hon. Friend is quite right. University is one route into work, and if it works for people that is great, but apprenticeships are another route, and this Government have done more than any other to get young people into apprenticeships—there are now more than 2 million apprentices—and into work. I know that my hon. Friend works closely with his university and local businesses to make that happen.
2015-03-09a.22.2	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	We are running late, but this is the last Work and Pensions Question Time of the Parliament and there are two colleagues I wish to accommodate.
2015-03-09a.22.3	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Ronnie Campbell	Youth unemployment in my constituency is still very high. Unlike some Tory Members, I cannot brag about a 50% reduction in youth unemployment. In fact, I cannot even go to 5%. Will the Minister do something about it?
2015-03-09a.22.4	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Iain Duncan Smith	Of course we want to ensure that every young person has a chance to get a job, none less so than we on the Government side and the hon. Gentleman, but he must remember that the reason they are unemployed is that the economy crashed and fell by 6% of GDP, and we have to put that right. What we are seeing now is more young people across the country getting back into work. I believe that this does and will affect his constituents for the better, which is exactly what it is all about.
2015-03-09a.22.5	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	Last but not least, Mr Duncan Hames.
2015-03-09a.22.6	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Duncan Hames	Now that the roll-out of universal credit is beginning in Wiltshire, what effect will it have on the identification of children’s eligibility for free school meals, and what conversations has the Secretary of State had with Ministers in the Department for Education on how that will affect the allocation of the incredibly popular pupil premium?
2015-03-09a.22.7	WORK AND PENSIONS	Topical Questions	Iain Duncan Smith	In the first instance, we have already agreed with the Department for Education on how that will work. It is set on a series of moments when it will apply the free school meals eligibility. I think that it will actually be better than the present system. With regard to the pupil premium, which is in the coalition agreement and, as the hon. Gentleman rightly says, works successfully, this should have no direct effect on that, other than to improve it.
2015-03-09a.23.1	WORK AND PENSIONS	Speaker’s Statement	Mr Speaker	As Members will be aware, there was a serious breach of security over the weekend. An intruder gained access to the roofs of the Palace on Saturday evening and was arrested in the early hours of Sunday morning. The intruder did not gain access to the inside of the building. I am grateful to the emergency services for their careful handling of the incident. The security authorities expect to be able to produce a full written report tomorrow. The House will wish to know that immediate remedial actions have been and are being taken to address failings in our security arrangements revealed by early analysis of the incident.
2015-03-09a.25.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Rory Stewart	I beg to move amendment 24, page 1, line 9, leave out “is”
2015-03-09a.25.4	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Mr Speaker	With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment 25, page 1, leave out line 10 and insert— “(a) has been a member of the regular or reserve forces in the last five years ending with the day on which the appointment is to take effect, or” Amendment 26, page 1, line 11, after “(b)”, insert “is” Amendment 27, page 1, line 13, at end add— “(4A) (a) The period for which a person is appointed shall be not less than five years and not more than seven years. (b) A person who has been appointed as Ombudsman may not be re-appointed to the office.” Amendment 28, in clause 2, page 3, line 15, at end insert— “(5A) Before making regulations under this section the Defence Council must consult the Service Complaints Ombudsman.” Amendment 23, page 5, line 15, at end insert— “(2A) Regulations made under section 340E(1)(b) must specify that in relation to any service complaint which includes allegations of discrimination, harassment, or of being victimised as a result of making such allegations— (a) where a person is appointed by the Defence Council for the purposes of section 340C(1)(a) or 340D(2)(d) that person must have a proven understanding of discrimination and harassment; (b) where a panel is appointed by the Defence Council for the purposes of section 340C(1)(a) or 340D(2)(d) at least one member of the panel must have a proven understanding of discrimination and harassment.” This amendment would require that any regulations made by the Secretary of State must specify that the person, or at least one of the panel members, involved in dealing with Service complaints involving allegations of discrimination or harassment should have a proven understanding of discrimination and harassment. Amendment 29, page 7, line 32, leave out subsection (2). Amendment 30, page 7, line 34, leave out from “subject to subsection (2),” Amendment 31, page 7, line 39, leave out subsection (5). Amendment 32, page 9, line 25, leave out paragraph (c) and insert— “(c) provision for the imposition on those to whom reports are sent of obligations of confidentiality in the interests of— (i) national security; or (ii) the safety of any person.” Amendment 33, page 9, line 30, at end insert— “(aa) accept the findings and recommendations of the Service Complaints Ombudsman.” Amendment 34, page 9, line 32, leave out “(if any)” Amendment 35, page 9, leave out lines 35 to 37. Amendment 36, page 12, line 14, at end add— “( ) The Ombudsman may report to the Secretary of State on any matter relating to service complaints and the procedure for the handling of service complaints as the Ombudsman considers appropriate.”
2015-03-09a.26.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Rory Stewart	These very important amendments were tabled by the Defence Committee. We shall not press them to a vote, but we want to explain crisply and clearly why we believe them to be very important. They focus above all on four things: the independence, freedom, power and scope of the ombudsman. I shall briefly go through each of the amendments in turn. The principle on which the Defence Committee has acted is the need to get the balance right with regard to the very particular needs of military law and military discipline, which we accept are completely different from those in the civilian sphere. The kinds of things that soldiers are required to do are quite different from those required by a conventional employer. It is not necessary to lay those differences out in detail, but military discipline and military law have been quite different from civilian law in a series of important respects for 400 years. It is important that, along with preserving the independence of the military and of military discipline and military law, we ensure that the ombudsman is genuinely trusted and respected. The first ingredient of that is, of course, the ombudsman’s independence and making sure there are no conflicts of interest, which is what the first set of amendments in this group—amendments 24 to 27—seek to ensure. They would make sure that the individual had not been in the military—either in the regular or the reserves—in the previous five years. That conflict of interest is obvious, so it is not worth trying the House’s patience. Put simply, if someone had been a senior general a month before they became the ombudsman, there would be a potential conflict of interest in the relationships they might have developed, so we think that a five year gap is sensible. The second ingredient, which is in amendment 27, is to push for the term to be non-renewable. That is also about having no conflicts of interest: as the ombudsman do their job, they should not be perpetually thinking about how to get the job again. Our focus is on ensuring that they do the job clearly and crisply, without worrying about whether they will be reappointed—that is independence. The second set of amendments, Nos. 28 to 32, deals with the freedom of the ombudsman. The Committee is pushing to ensure that the Ministry of Defence and the Defence Council do not put regulations or procedures in the way of the defence ombudsman or the Service Complaints Commissioner for the Armed Forces that prevent them from doing their job. We are trying to ensure that although the Ministry of Defence can set the parameters within which the ombudsman operates, it is not in a position to micromanage individual procedures. We believe that the Ministry of Defence should consult the ombudsman on regulations. Finally, on the question of power, we do not believe that the Ministry of Defence should be able to use confidentiality as a reason for denying access to the ombudsman, except in two particular cases: the personal safety of the individual and national security. Except in those cases, the ombudsman should have the scope to pursue an investigation. The third conceptual issue for the Committee is about the power of the ombudsman. In amendments 33 to 35, we argue that the ombudsman’s recommendations should be binding on the Defence Council. The final conceptual issue is about scope, and amendment 36 touches on thematic reviews. In other words, should the ombudsman find a systemic issue—say, repeated examples of bullying—it may think it necessary to conduct a thematic review of the broader issues. The Committee will not press the amendments to a vote because the Government have so far addressed them in a constructive fashion. We very much welcome the fact that they have accepted our major amendment to allow the ombudsman to look not simply at maladministration but at the substance of cases. We note that the Government, in appointing Nicola Williams, have already taken into account in practice many of the recommendations that the Committee wanted. We note that in the contract negotiations with her the Government have already ensured that the ombudsman appointed has not been in the armed forces during the previous five years—in fact, Nicola Williams has never been in the armed forces—which deals with our amendments 24 to 26. We note that the Government have said that the appointment will be non-renewable, which is our amendment 27. In practice, the appointment deals with the conflict of interests problem, and we understand that the Government will set out measures in regulations to deal with our anxieties about freedom, power and scope. However, the Committee will of course watch the Government’s performance on such issues very carefully. Given that the Government do not want to agree to the amendments, that they assure us we can trust them and say that we should look at the precedent set by the appointment of Nicola Williams, and that they will introduce individual regulations to achieve all the measures that the Committee want, we will watch them very carefully. The Committee reserves the right to reintroduce the amendments, particularly in the Armed Forces Bill to be introduced in the next Parliament, if we believe the Government have reneged on what at the moment appears to be a commitment made in good faith, to ensure that the ombudsman’s principles are upheld.
2015-03-09a.27.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Bob Russell	I am grateful to the Chairman of the Select Committee for the way in which he is setting out its views. Will he expand a little more on the concerns expressed in some quarters about the ombudsman not having any military knowledge and experience? How will she address that problem, if it is a problem?
2015-03-09a.27.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Rory Stewart	My hon. Friend raised that central question during the Defence Committee’s pre-appointment hearing. We were very pleased that the Committee had an opportunity to meet Nicola Williams and to conduct a pre-appointment hearing with her. We focused very heavily on whether, without military experience, she would feel comfortable in the role. We were very impressed by Nicola Williams. Her arguments and explanations were extremely convincing, she displayed real independence in her role in the Cayman Islands, and she seemed to have the right balance of independence and respect for the institution. We were very happy, as a Committee, to approve her appointment. To conclude, this matter is very important to the Defence Committee. We are not conventionally a Committee that looks at legislation. The nature of our work is not usually to scrutinise individual Bills, because a great deal of the work of the Ministry of Defence is not connected with legislation. However, we feel that it is very important in the setting up of the ombudsman that Parliament, and the Defence Committee in particular, is carefully involved. We accept that it is a step in the right direction that the post of ombudsman has gone from thee days a week to a full-time job, and from having five employees to having more than 20. We accept that it is a good move that the Defence Committee has the power to hold an appointment hearing on the ombudsman. We also think it is good that the Government have accepted amendments from the Defence Committee. Aside from the inherent merits of those amendments, it is simply good procedure that in setting up an ombudsman, the Executive listen to the legislative branch and give Parliament and the Defence Committee the chance to influence the procedure. The ombudsman will have trust only if they bring not just the Ministry of Defence but Parliament, the public and institutions such as the Defence Committee with them. On those grounds, I move the amendment, but will not press it to a vote.
2015-03-09a.28.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Madeleine Moon	I shall speak briefly to the amendments tabled by the Defence Committee and to amendment 23, which I tabled. The armed forces, as I frequently tell my constituents, are a closed institution with their own language, dress code and standards. Most personnel live a closed life that is mostly unobserved by society, but which represents the highest values of our society. The armed forces also have their own internal disciplinary system and legal system—AGAI 67. Abuses of the system can remain hidden and have done, as seen in the double jeopardy cases I have discussed in the House and in the Public Bill Committee. Those cases were revealed only because of whistleblowers. One of the most important things we must accept about the armed forces is that innate to them is a huge desire for justice. Armed forces personnel have a huge recognition of the importance of justice and the importance of people being dealt with fairly. However, papers frequently come through my office that demonstrate that the service complaints system to date has not necessarily been working fairly. I welcome the changes that the Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) , accepted in Committee. I also welcomed her intervention on Second Reading when she revealed that the issue of double jeopardy would be addressed. I hope we shall have regular updates on the efforts to access the 587 ex-employees, 194 of whom had their service terminated and five of whom had their rank reduced. Armed forces personnel have limited access to employment tribunals. It is therefore critical that the internal system operates well and gives a sense of confidence to armed forces personnel. We know that the delays are growing. As the number of armed forces personnel decreases, the pressure on personnel increases. The number of people who investigate and adjudicate in the matter of service complaints is also decreasing. As I have said, the creation of the service complaints ombudsman and the changes that were introduced in Committee are the last chance for the armed forces to maintain the current closed system.
2015-03-09a.29.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Jim Shannon	In Committee, the delays for serving soldiers and those employed by the Ministry of Defence in getting their complaints heard concerned me greatly. There are also people who have lost their jobs or who have been suspended—one of my constituents has been suspended for four years on full pay. Will the proposed changes restore much-needed confidence in the process?
2015-03-09a.29.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Madeleine Moon	In many respects that is the critical issue, and I hope the Defence Committee will take an active role in monitoring and adjudicating on whether we need to come back to the Bill and decide whether further changes are necessary. Papers that I received this morning tell me that 74% of the Army’s open service complaints exceed the 24-week deadline—six months—and only 51% of new service complaints in the RAF were resolved in 24 weeks during 2014. In January 2015, the Army had 724 service complaints outstanding from 2013 and previous years. The Navy had 144, and the RAF 165. Those figures are deeply worrying—we are about to introduce a new, complex system with opportunities for the ombudsman to be much more proactive in intervening in service complaints, yet we already have a huge backlog of complaints. I would like the Minister to address whether those outstanding complaints will be subject to the new rules introduced by the Bill, and whether they will be assessed under rules of maladministration. That will be one of the critical deciders as to whether there is confidence for those who have been held in the system and experienced horrendous delays. Parliament sets the standards that it expects our armed forces to operate to, and it must have confidence that the internal military system works. As I said, Parliament has the opportunity in 2015 to review further the operation of the service complaints system, and to remove control of the system from the chain of command unless we see the changes that we want and our armed forces deserve. Internal papers that come our way suggest that, increasingly, reserves will be used to help to deal with complaints. Will the Minister say how often reserves will be used to sit on panels and change the way that complaints are dealt with? There are positives to using reserves, because they come with a wider perspective of life outside the armed forces and know how some of the bullying and harassment, and some of the horrendous cases that have come to public attention, would be dealt with in a wider employment setting. That could be a constructive move forward, but it is important at least to be clear about what is happening, whether reserves are being used in that way, and what skills they are bringing to the complaints system and its operation. There are a number of complaints within the current system such as poor quality entry of complaints into the joint personnel administration system, which is where complaints are held. Indeed, in December 2014 the service complaints wing identified more than 70 service complaints that had not been notified through the unit as a service complaint, and had not been entered on to the system. We therefore do not even know whether we are still getting accurate figures for service complaints. On delay, as I have said, the numbers are growing. It is important that people feel confidence in the system, and that the system is seen as robust and working. I wish to speak briefly to my amendment 23, which deals with the training of armed forces personnel in matters of discrimination and harassment. The amendment requires that regulations made by the Secretary of State must specify that the person, or at least one of the panel members, dealing with service complaints involving allegations of discrimination or harassment should have a proven understanding of discrimination and harassment. The amendment is welcomed by the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Parliamentary questions I asked last year revealed the military’s lack of understanding on these issues. When I raised the question of how many people in the armed forces had had equality and diversity training, I was told that Royal Navy serving personnel receive two hours of training every two years. In the Army there is half an hour of training every year, and in the RAF there is two hours every three years. For new entrants to the armed forces, the Royal Navy provides three hours, the Army two hours and the RAF two and a half hours of equality and diversity training. Armed forces personnel go to employment tribunals in very few cases involving discrimination. At the same time as I was receiving that answer from the Minister, the Ministry of Defence was being taken to an employment tribunal. In the judgment for Williams v. Ministry of Defence, the employment tribunal stated that the “cavalier and abject failure to follow the clear guidelines provided by the Code of Practice under the Equality Act 2010 and its predecessor legislation is shocking as too is the seeming lack of knowledge of and education in issues of equality by those in higher ranks within the organisation”. The tribunal found the claimant, the most senior ranking nurse in the Royal Navy, had suffered sex discrimination in relation to promotion. It made 13 wide-ranging recommendations, including equality and diversity training for those involved in assignment, promotion and recruitment decisions. In another case, Boswell v. MOD, from 2013, we find yet more evidence of the impact that this lack of basic understanding can have. The employment tribunal commented that in dealing with Mr Boswell’s complaints of discrimination, the MOD had “very much let down a distinguished and long serving member of the armed forces” and that a “lack of proper appreciation of the importance of addressing discrimination complaints have been a very real barrier to any clear thinking on the part of the respondent in addressing the discrimination that the claimant has sought to complain of internally.” I do not intend to press amendment 23 to a Division, but I hope that this issue will be dealt with in regulation. The Minister knows me well and knows that I will continue to monitor and pursue this matter. It is only right that the serving members of our armed forces should not face bullying, harassment and discrimination in serving their country and placing their lives on the line.
2015-03-09a.31.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Kevan Jones	I begin by thanking the hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart) and the Defence Committee for their work on the Bill. The Committee produced an excellent report covering some major concerns about the system of redress for members of our armed forces which, I have to say, have been raised for many years. The amendments tabled in Committee and on Report today show how effective a Select Committee can be when it does its job. We covered many of the amendments in Committee, and as the hon. Gentleman said, he is not going to press his to a vote, but some of these issues will need to be looked at in regulations. I note that my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) said that she would keep a close eye on the regulations, and I am sure that the Committee will as well. The issue that amendments 24 to 28 deal with has followed me throughout my time in Parliament—I was on the Committee that discussed similar matters when we set up the Service Complaints Commissioner—so I am pleased today that we are moving to where we should have been back then, with an ombudsman with the powers and effectiveness that our armed forces require. On the commissioner’s length of service, the suggestion, which we supported in Committee, is between five and seven years, to give the person time to establish themselves and avoid the situation that we see with many public appointments where the person spends more time in the last few years trying to ensure their reappointment than doing an effective job. For that reason, we will have to consider the time limits for the ombudsman. When we set up the commissioner, it was argued vociferously, especially by Conservative Back Benchers, that they had to have military experience, but I think the present commissioner has shown otherwise. She has done a very effective job without a service background and has earned the respect of the members of the armed forces she has worked with, and I look forward to the new armed forces ombudsman carrying on that tradition. It is important that the position be seen to be independent and that it gives complainants confidence that individuals cannot use the old boys’ network, as it was called in Committee, to influence the ombudsman or commissioner. Much strength has been gained from having someone, in Susan Atkins, who has done a forensic job and taken the trouble, time and effort to understand how our armed forces work and the cultural differences between them. As those who have dealt with them know, they are very different, have their individual cultures and in the past have differed in their implementation of various forms of discipline. Under the amendments, the Defence Council would consult the ombudsman before making regulations, which, again, I do not see as a threat; it could help the council and the MOD ensure that regulations have an independent eye cast over them. Just as the Defence Committee has played a role in developing the Bill, so I see a role for it in scrutinising regulations and how it is put into practice. It might be a good idea for it to look back, perhaps in a year or so, to see how it has worked in practice.
2015-03-09a.32.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Dai Havard	My hon. Friend was a signatory to the 2003 report that followed the Deepcut barracks incidents, when the Committee started work on such a system. I pay tribute to him and other Committee members who have worked consistently to get to this situation, and I am sure that the next Committee will be equally diligent in ensuring we go further. Would he agree?
2015-03-09a.32.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Kevan Jones	What—praise myself? Surely not, so modest as I am! I wish to put on the record, however, my thanks to my hon. Friend, who is retiring at the election, for his service on the Committee. I think he has been a member for most of his time in Parliament. He has not only shown a keen interest in the subject, but cares about the issues. I will develop the point further on Third Reading, but it is good to see this legislation coming into being. Should it have happened earlier? Yes. Do the inerrant conservatisms within the system work? Yes, I think they do. When the idea of having an armed forces Service Complaints Commissioner was brought forward, to hear some people talking about it one would have thought that the earth would stop spinning on its axis if such a person were created—but it has not: it has helped the chain of command and provided greater transparency over the tough decisions that we recognise have to be made. When this Bill comes into force, the same question will arise again—why did we not do this many years before? Amendments 32 to 36 deal with the issue of whether the ombudsman will have teeth and whether the decisions she takes should be accepted and then enforced on the Defence Council. I said in Committee that we would support the amendments. Time will tell, but I think it would be a brave Defence Councillor or Minister who turned round and rejected a recommendation from the armed services ombudsman. What the Defence Committee wanted to achieve through these amendments will in practice become simply a part of the normal system and the Defence Council will accept the ombudsman’s recommendations. My hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend makes a good point in her amendment 23, and I pay tribute to her tenacity in pursuing this Bill and to her broader support for ensuring that when things go wrong in our armed forces, individuals get the justice they deserve. Her amendment refers to discrimination and harassment. She makes a good point that it is important for at least one of the individuals on the board to have full knowledge and training in relevant areas. The new ombudsman can look at the issues raised today and assist the armed forces by ensuring that the personnel on the panels have the necessary training and expertise. We shall not press for a vote on the amendments, but many of the issues that have arisen from them today will be dealt with through regulations. It is important that, in drawing them up, the Ministry of Defence takes into account the clear concerns raised by the hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart) , my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend and the Defence Committee. I would not want regulations somehow to limit or put a straitjacket on the operations of the new armed services ombudsman. I said the same thing when the Service Complaints Commissioner was appointed, and I shall say it again. Our armed forces and the military generally have nothing to fear from this new appointment. It will enhance the transparency we expect and, if it is done properly, it will improve the problem identified by my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend—that complaints are taking far too long to resolve. In any other walk of life, it would be unacceptable to allow such long delays. As I say, this will help the armed forces. Anyone who has ever dealt with a complaints system or disciplinary procedures knows that the quicker they are resolved the better. This helps to ensure that the system is fair and that, even if individuals do not like the outcome of the disciplinary procedures, they will at least know that their cases will be dealt with quickly and effectively. I think that the Defence Committee has done a great job, and that the Bill has been vastly improved. I hope that some of the issues that have been raised here can be dealt with in regulations.
2015-03-09a.33.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Anna Soubry	I pay tribute to the Defence Committee for its work, and to my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart) for his sensible comments. I also pay tribute to the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) for her long-standing work, and thank her for her contribution today. I am afraid I cannot thank her for everything, because she came to see me last week and gave me part of her very filthy cold; but, as ever, she spoke with great force, and rightly made clear—as did my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border—that Members would be watching the ombudsman’s progress very carefully. While I am confident that the hon. Lady and my hon. Friend will be back here on 10 May , I do not necessarily have the same confidence in my own return. However, I can tell them that, should I be in such a fortunate position thanks to the support of the people of Broxtowe, I too will be keeping an eye on the progress of the ombudsman, regardless of the Bench on which I find myself sitting. Of course, in an ideal world the ombudsman would not have to do any work at all. Would it not be marvellous if she had no work to do? Unfortunately, however, she will have a great deal of work to do, because we have a system that, as we know, is not performing as it should be. When I had the great pleasure of visiting Northern Ireland and meeting my hon. Friend—as I now consider him to be— the Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) , we spoke about the Bill and about the complaints system. He reminded me earlier today of the genuine concern that he feels about delay. Under the existing system, we hear all too often from members of all three services that there is too much delay, and that there is no excuse for it. There are sometimes good reasons for delay. It is in the nature of service life that it may not be possible to find a witness—or even a complainant—for some time, because members of the armed forces may be on operations for at least six months. Someone who is serving on a submarine will be literally out of contact for those six months, or longer. Delay may also be caused by the complexity of a case, especially if it relates to allowances or pensions. However, all too often it is clearly due to the attitude that is taken. Complainants may be told, “I am very busy. I have a lot of other things on my plate. We are putting together a group of people to build a hospital in Sierra Leone. It is a crisis. It is an emergency and it is not going to wait, but your complaint can wait.” We must change that attitude. A good, expeditious system will deliver justice. I know many people fear that false complaints will be lodged, but an effective system will ensure that only right and just complaints are dealt with, and people will then begin to have confidence in the system.
2015-03-09a.34.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Jim Shannon	I thank the Minister for accepting what we said in Committee, and for responding to it so positively. We felt that the delays were untenable and unfair, and were creating problems. Does the Minister think that the new system will enable people to have confidence in it, and to believe that, at long last, the delays will be reduced and they will be helped to secure the satisfaction that they seek?
2015-03-09a.34.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Anna Soubry	I believe that if the Bill passes through all its remaining stages, of which there are not too many, and if we extend the remit of Nicola Williams, in whom we all have confidence, to create the role of the ombudsman—following the passing of amendments in Committee that the Government did not oppose—the system will be hugely improved, and people will have more confidence in it. It also sends out a very clear message to our armed forces that they have got to sharpen up now and absolutely make sure that when somebody makes a complaint, whether it is a more serious and more appalling bullying and harassment complaint—which mercifully are rare; we know there is nothing peculiar about our armed forces that means we have more such complaints than other professions or fields of work—or complaints about allowances or pay or whatever, it is taken seriously and is acted upon not only fairly and justly, but with all due diligence and expeditiously, so we do not have these delays.
2015-03-09a.34.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Bob Russell	Does the hon. Lady agree that what we are talking about this evening is a continuation of the good work done by the last two Governments through their respective Armed Forces Bills— the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) and I are, I think, the only two Members who served on both occasions?
2015-03-09a.34.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Anna Soubry	Yes, I do. Both the hon. Member for North Durham and my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border have said that we have seen a progression to where we are today, and we must understand and recognise that some think this is a step too far. They think we have gone too far and perceive some threat to the chain of command. I absolutely do not believe that, but things often take time to develop in the ways we want. I am absolutely confident that we have struck the right balance.
2015-03-09a.34.4	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Rory Stewart	The question of whether this is a fundamental threat to the chain of command is a central point. Although people are very polite and do not put this about, I know a lot of colleagues and people in the armed forces are concerned that this is going too far. Will the Minister lay out more clearly why this is not a threat to the chain of command?
2015-03-09a.35.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Anna Soubry	This Bill—it has now been amended and we have accepted the amendments—changes the ombudsman’s remit but not her powers. Somebody who brings a complaint to Nicola Williams can be absolutely confident that it will be thoroughly and properly dealt with, and that she will be in a position to make her recommendations. She has access to Ministers and to others in the chain of command, and can go to them at any time. That chain of command is not under threat because of her. Indeed, I am confident that the creation of the ombudsman will give the chain of command the understanding—the hon. Member for Bridgend or the hon. Member for North Durham made this point—that it has nothing to fear from the ombudsman, nor from a better system, because if complaints are dealt with properly and expeditiously, and fairly and justly, we will have a better team and group of people. This will only strengthen the chain of command’s ability to conduct its business.
2015-03-09a.35.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Bob Stewart	Although we have heard a lot about complaints, may I put it on the record that the chain of command deals very properly with most of the problems in the units for which it has responsibility and that we are talking about only a relatively small percentage of people? I just wanted to make that point, because all we have heard is complaints, complaints, complaints. There are not many complaints from the vast number of people who are dealt with properly by the officers in charge of them.
2015-03-09a.35.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Anna Soubry	I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. I thought I had made it, but there is no harm in his repeating and endorsing it. Of course the majority serve without any complaint, but sometimes, as my hon. Friend knows, in any organisation there are bad apples, and even in a modern world there are times when people are undoubtedly bullied, and are undoubtedly the subject of discrimination and harassment; there are times when we get it wrong. The hon. Member for Bridgend knows of a very good example of not bullying or harassment but what she called double jeopardy, where something has been done wrong. That may well be to the detriment of certain people, in which case they are right to raise that complaint and we need good, strong systems. No organisation gets things 100% right, and when they go wrong people must have confidence that their complaint will be dealt with fairly and justly, and that if it is not they can go somewhere else—to the ombudsman, in this instance. Now that we have agreed to the amendments tabled in Committee, it will not only be maladministration that can be taken into account. The merits of the case and the matter of delay will also be considered. I know that we are not going to vote on the amendments, but I should like to tell the House why the Government resist them. Amendment 23 would require anyone appointed to decide on a complaint or on an appeal that related to harassment, discrimination or victimisation to have a proven understanding of such matters. We all acknowledge that these can be among the more complex complaints, as they involve relationships that have gone wrong in one way or another. However, no record is or could reasonably be kept of those who may have an understanding of such matters so that they could be called upon when required, as the amendment proposes. I understand the principle behind the amendment, and there is no doubt that it is entirely well intentioned, but I cannot agree to it—certainly at this stage—for the reasons I have just stated. Amendments 24 to 26 would require there to be a gap of five years between a person ending their service in the regular or reserve forces and becoming eligible to be appointed to the post of service complaints ombudsman. The provision in the Bill simply requires that the individual to be appointed to the post should not currently be a member of the regular or reserve forces or of the civil service. Our people will rightly expect the ombudsman to carry out the role with impartiality and professionalism. That person should also of course be demonstrably independent of those whom they seek to hold to account for the way in which complaints have been handled. For that reason, the ombudsman will be outside the chain of command and will have access to Ministers and to all levels of the chain of command whenever he or she deems it necessary. I make no apology for repeating that the ombudsman will be able to approach the chain of command and Ministers at any time, at any level and on any issue, should they need to do so. Being in offices that are outside the defence estate and recruiting their own staff in line with civil service recruitment guidelines will further reinforce the ombudsman’s independence from the services and from the Ministry of Defence. A further mark of the role’s independence and the security of the post holder’s tenure is the fact that the Bill provides that the post holder’s appointment will be subject to approval by Her Majesty the Queen. Yet another measure of their independence is that the House of Commons Defence Committee will conduct a pre-appointment hearing with the MOD’s preferred candidate. Our aim is to attract high quality candidates and to get the best person for this important job. These amendments would restrict the field of possible candidates and exclude those who might have recent, relevant experience. We want therefore to retain the flexibility provided under the Bill’s current provisions, and I must stress that any previous armed forces experience can and will be scrutinised and fully assessed for any impact it might have on perceptions of the candidate’s independence. For those reasons, these proposals are resisted. Amendments 27 would require the length of the ombudsman’s term in office, and a statement that it was non-renewable, to be set out in the legislation. It would require that the ombudsman not be appointed for less than five years or longer than seven, and that the term could not be renewed. The amendment’s aim is to ensure that the person appointed to be the ombudsman would not be influenced in their assessment of how the complaints system was operating or, in their investigation of maladministration claims, by concerns about whether they would be reappointed. It also aims to give the ombudsman, and those whom they serve, some certainty about the length of time they would be post and to make that term of office a reasonable enough length for the post holder to get to grips with the role and to see through changes. I fully acknowledge all those aims, but I do not accept that those provisions need to be set out on the face of the Bill in order for those matters to be enforced or to give certainty and confidence. The matters have been set out in the letter of appointment for the current commissioner, and we believe that to be the right approach. We want to retain the flexibility to amend those terms of appointment if experience suggests that that might be necessary. The amendment is therefore resisted. Amendments 29 to 31 would remove the Secretary of State’s power to make regulations about the ombudsman’s procedure for investigations in new section 340I, leaving it to the ombudsman to determine its own procedure. The Secretary of State is responsible to Parliament for the effective operation of the whole service complaints system, including the ombudsman stage, so it is right that certain basic matters are prescribed in regulations. One or two matters, such as time limits, are required to be in regulations in order for the ombudsman to be able to enforce them. The ombudsman is a creature of statute and so only has the powers Parliament provides him or her with. It is up to the ombudsman in each case to determine the procedure for carrying out any investigation. The published draft Armed Forces (Service Complaints Ombudsman Investigations) regulations make it clear that there is no intention unduly to restrict the ombudsman in how it investigates matters. Rather than restrict the ombudsman, we encourage the ombudsman to set her own details of procedural rules. The Secretary of State’s powers through regulations are supplementing powers, rather than limiting ones, in that they enable the ombudsman to have the powers she requires to be effective. We do believe that some of those details are best set out in regulations, making clear the parameters for the ombudsman’s investigative process. Those include, for example, the ability to hold oral hearings and to provide individuals with the right to be represented at any such hearing. As this is a new ombudsman, we would like to retain the flexibility—again—to amend the procedures based on experience of the system as it develops, which is why we have not set out detailed procedural rules in the Bill. That flexibility enables the system to be more efficient, effective and independent. For those reasons, these amendments are resisted. Amendment 32 would amend the Bill so that confidentiality obligations that could be imposed by the ombudsman on those to whom she sends investigation reports would be limited to issues of national security and the personal safety of individuals. The amendment would remove the ability to reflect any wider issues about the protection of sensitive information that is currently provided for in the Bill and in regulations. That current provision is important and should be retained. The ombudsman may need to see some sensitive information in order to be able fully to investigate whether maladministration has occurred. The ombudsman will be expected to act in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998 in the handling and processing of personal data. Under the Bill, the ombudsman may send an investigation report to any person she considers appropriate. We would expect the ombudsman to place confidentiality obligations on the recipient where the report contains sensitive personal data or other information confidential to the Department, including for reasons of national security. In addition, regulations may make further provision about these obligations, as specified in new section 340L(7)(c). These regulations are not aimed at curtailing freedom of speech; rather they are to ensure that sensitive information is properly protected. For those reasons, amendment 32 is resisted. Amendments 33 to 35 seek to make the ombudsman’s findings and recommendations binding on the Defence Council. The Government have made clear in the other place and in Committee in this House their intention that the findings of the ombudsman will be binding on the Defence Council, and the services accept this. The legal effect of ombudsman findings is not specified in other legislation, and the courts have had no difficulty in determining, in those contexts, that they are binding on the receiving organisation. We simply do not regard it as necessary to specify the legal effect of findings in the Bill. Our position in relation to the ombudsman’s recommendations is slightly different. First, as was explained in the other place and again in Committee in this House, our view is that the recommendations will clearly have some legal effect. The Defence Council will not be free simply to reject the recommendations because it disagrees with them. It would need to have very good, cogent, written reasons to do so, such as where the implementation of the recommendations in full was simply unworkable or where significant resource implications may be involved. It is right that the Defence Council should be able to reach the final decision on matters covered in any recommendations made by the ombudsman. The focus of the Defence Council will therefore be, in most cases where the ombudsman has made recommendations, to decide precisely how it will respond. That may simply be a matter of implementing the recommendation, whether it is for an appropriate apology to be made or for a part of the process to be rerun. For those reasons, the legal effect of findings and recommendations will not be specified in the Bill, and these amendments must be resisted. Amendment 36 widens the scope of matters on which the ombudsman can make a report beyond those already provided for in the ombudsman’s annual report. They are the operation of the complaints process, the execution of their role and any other matters that the ombudsman considers necessary, or that the Secretary of State may direct. The existing provisions at proposed new section 340O are sufficient to cover what the amendment seeks to provide, and for that reason I must resist it. I wish now to deal with the questions of the hon. Member for Bridgend. In relation to outstanding complaints to be dealt with under the new system, I hope that she will be pleased to hear that we are still looking to put in place transitional arrangements. We are not ruling the matter out on the grounds of retrospection, but we recognise that there would be a benefit in existing complaints having access to the ombudsman; we get that. Our plans will be clear in the regulations, which will be published later on this year. On the question about reserves, we are already making sensible use of reservists in the existing process. The Army and the RAF already use reservist officers to complement complaint panels, and there is no reason why that should not continue. As is ever the case with reservists, they bring from their civilian life huge amounts of experience. That other side of their life will no doubt enhance their ability to look at complaints with a different eye and a bit of freshness that others sitting on panels may not have—I mean no criticism here—by virtue of being in service for a long time. As I have said before during the passage of the Bill, there is no bar in this Bill to the ombudsman raising matters that concern them with whoever they wish and whenever they wish, but that does not need to be set out in legislation. The previous service complaints commissioner, Dr Susan Atkins—we pay tribute to her for her work—raised a wide range of matters with the chain of command during her tenure, and, if I can put it in this way, she took no prisoners. She also made mention of whatever matters she so chose to in her annual reports with provisions that were the same as those provided for in this Bill, so we have no reason to think that the ombudsman will not do exactly the same. For all the reasons that I have outlined, these amendments are resisted.
2015-03-09a.39.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Rory Stewart	I reiterate what the Defence Committee said, which is that the amendments are extremely important conceptual points relating to the independence of the ombudsman and conflict of interest; the power of the ombudsman; the freedom of the ombudsman to operate; and the scope of the ombudsman. We will not press the amendment to a vote at this time. That is a good will gesture to the Government, who have made a concession on an important amendment. I also wish to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) , who has been the guiding spirit and soul of this process from the beginning to the end. She has kept the Defence Committee focused and she has kept it honest. I hope that she feels a real sense of achievement at having got through this extremely important amendment.
2015-03-09a.39.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Mr Speaker	For the avoidance of doubt, if the hon. Gentleman could just say the words that he seeks leave to withdraw the amendment.
2015-03-09a.39.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 1 — Creation of office of Service Complaints Commission	Rory Stewart	I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
2015-03-09a.39.4	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Anna Soubry	I beg to move amendment 1, page 6, line 28, after “may”, insert “, on an application to the Ombudsman by a person within subsection (1A),” This amendment clarifies the provision made in new section 340H(1) of the Armed Forces Act 2006 (inserted by clause 2 of the Bill) about the making of applications to the Service Complaints Ombudsman. See also amendment 5.
2015-03-09a.39.5	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Mr Speaker	With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government amendments 2 to 6 Amendment 22, page 6, line 37 at end insert— “() for the purposes of subsection (1)(c)— “Undue delay” should be considered any length of time longer than one calendar year, or a length of time that the Ombudsman determines constitutes an undue delay in relation to a given complaint.” This amendment defines “undue delay” for the purposes of paragraph (c) of new section 340H(1) of the Armed Forces Act 2006 (see Government amendment 4). Government amendments 7 to 21
2015-03-09a.40.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Anna Soubry	The amendments make the changes to the Bill agreed in Committee and ensure that they work correctly from a drafting point of view. I do not mean to insult or to criticise anyone, but we had to ensure that these amendments had the effect that the majority of the Committee wanted. I also want to make it clear that the Government accept the changes made in Committee and that nothing in these amendments seeks to row back on what the Committee agreed. I hope that hon. Members will accept that, because I have seen all the key players—I now see that my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) is sitting at the back. He might take offence at that, but I hope that he does not. We have done that quite deliberately so that everybody knows why the amendments have been proposed. They fill in significant gaps left by the amendments agreed in Committee and, in particular, ensure that the ombudsman can make recommendations following an investigation into a service complaint, giving her decisions the necessary teeth. The amendments agreed in Committee reflect some of the recommendations made by the Defence Committee in its report on the Bill, which was published last October. I am grateful for the Defence Committee’s work on the Bill and it is clear that the changes agreed in Committee now have cross-party support, as they did in the Defence Committee. The Government have listened to the arguments made in Committee and by others on Second Reading and have accepted them. I therefore hope that the amendments will be supported across the House. The Public Bill Committee agreed that the role of the ombudsman should be extended in three ways. The first was that the ombudsman should be allowed to look at the substance or merits of an individual complaint and not just whether it had been handled correctly by the services. In other words, she should be able to consider not just maladministration. The second was that the ombudsman should look for any maladministration that had occurred, not just that alleged by the complainant. If during the course of examining that complaint she comes across any other maladministration, she should be able to consider that. Those are changes to the ombudsman’s remit, but it is important to emphasise a point that has sometimes been lost in our debates. The ombudsman will ordinarily become involved in individual complaints only once the consideration of them by the services has finished. It is important to reiterate that if an individual makes a complaint it should go through all the necessary stages and processes and if there is no finding in the complainant’s favour, meaning that he or she feels that the grievance has not been met—that they have not won, if you like—they can go to the ombudsman. If complaints are successfully dealt with by the services, there is no need for those complaints to go to the ombudsman. Most complaints are satisfactorily resolved, as one might imagine they would be in any complaints system. It is important to make a point because the third change agreed in Committee is to allow the ombudsman to investigate allegations of undue delay, as I said to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) earlier, in three different respects: as part of a maladministration investigation, in relation to an ongoing “live” complaint, and pre-complaint. As I am sure you have worked out, Mr Speaker, I mean that when somebody has made a complaint that has got stuck and has not been got on with, even though it has not been completed, that person can go to the ombudsman. Even before a complaint has got into the system, if it is thought that there has been some prevarication or undue delay, the complainant can go to the ombudsman to unstick whatever is gluing things up. It is in everyone’s interests to have a complaints process in which roles and powers are clear so that there is no confusion. It is also important that the wishes of the individual remain at the heart of the process, given that this is an individual’s grievance procedure. It is about that individual and his or her grievance. It remains the case that the services will in every case still be left to decide how to respond to any findings or recommendations made by the ombudsman, even in relation to the extended remit that the ombudsman will now have. We have dealt with the amendments made in Committee with those points firmly in mind and the Government’s amendments today make the necessary additional changes to the rest of the Bill’s provisions, which were left untouched by the amendments in Committee, so that there can be no doubt about the precise scope of the ombudsman’s powers. That is why proposed new section 340H(1), as amended by our amendments, will set out in good strong terms that the ombudsman can investigate the following: a service complaint when that complaint has completed the internal system, making it clear that the ombudsman can look into the merits of a complaint; an allegation of a mishandling of service complaints, including undue delay, when that complaint has completed the internal system, which deals with maladministration; and allegations that a service complaint has been unduly delayed before the complaint has completed the internal system or, as I have explained, that there was undue delay before a service complaint was made.
2015-03-09a.41.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Bob Stewart	Do I assume that if the Service Complaints Commissioner looks at a matter and says that there is no case to answer, it can finish there, rather than there being a long process? Can the commissioner say, “There is no case to answer; this matter is finished”?
2015-03-09a.41.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Anna Soubry	If somebody says that there has been undue delay, but the commissioner finds that there has not, she can certainly say so, though at that stage, of course, she would not be looking at the merits of the case. If somebody makes a complaint and goes through the system, and there is no finding in their favour, and then says, “I will now go to the ombudsman on the question of the merits of the case”, it is absolutely the ombudsman’s role to look at whether there is any merit to the case. If she thinks that there is no merit to it, she will not flinch from saying so. I hope that satisfies my hon. Friend. It is now possible to apply to the ombudsman alleging undue delay when a complaint in the internal system has not been concluded, or indeed when a complaint has not even been made, so it is important that the Bill sets out for the avoidance of doubt what is meant by the internal process having been completed. That is effected by putting the phrase “finally determined” in proposed new section 340H(1); an explanation of the term is provided in proposed new subsection (5). Several hon. Members raised that issue with me before the debate in private—I mean nothing untoward by that. I want to make it clear for the Hansard record that the phrase “finally determined” does not in any way preclude the ombudsman’s looking into the merits or maladministration of a complaint. It is simply there to make it clear that she can do that only once consideration of the complaint by the services through the internal system has been completed, and only when the applicant has asked the ombudsman to investigate in accordance with the requirements of the Bill. The phrase brings clarity. It remains important for the ombudsman to have a reasonably clear idea of what the applicant wants them to look into, and for investigations to remain focused and proportionate. One of the amendments would insert a new subsection (4)(b) in section 340H, requiring the applicant to specify which type or types of investigation the complainant wants the ombudsman to carry out. This is not an onerous obligation, and it will help to focus the efforts of the ombudsman on what is most important to the applicant. That is connected with the amendment that would insert new subsection (1)(b) in new section 340I, giving the ombudsman the discretion to decide whether to investigate the whole service complaint or allegation, or just part of it. New section 340H also reflects the change to the ombudsman’s ability to report on any maladministration identified during an investigation of a complainant’s allegation of maladministration. We want the ombudsman to be free to report on any other aspect of mishandling that she may come across, and have amended the Bill accordingly to make this clear throughout the relevant provisions. Our changes provide an essential clarification to the amendments agreed in Committee; those amendments would have required the ombudsman to look for any maladministration in every investigation, whether or not it had been alleged by the complainant. The amendment that we propose to new section 340H(6) clarifies the scope of this new aspect of the ombudsman’s investigative power. It is equally important for everyone that it is clear what the ombudsman can do on completing an investigation. Her ability to produce a report with findings and recommendations is fundamental to the view that many will rightly have about whether this new role really does have teeth. The Government amendments will also fill a gap that was left when amendments were made in Committee. We would amend new section 340L to make it clear that the ombudsman must, after carrying out an investigation, prepare a report setting out her findings and recommendations. After an investigation of a service complaint, the ombudsman will need to issue findings stating whether the complaint was well founded, and will need to make any recommendations to ensure appropriate redress. The Defence Council retains responsibility for responding to those findings and recommendations, in accordance with new section 340M. The Government amendments also clarify that the ombudsman must set out any recommendations as a result of a finding of maladministration or undue delay. This group of amendments is a relatively large one, but it is necessary to ensure that the provisions of the Bill are clear. The amendments also ensure that the drafting is coherent and complete, while giving full effect to the amendments agreed to in Committee, which had cross-party support. In a couple of important respects, which I have outlined, they also improve the amendments which were agreed to in Committee. We could have been, shall I say, a little bit naughty. When we saw what had been voted for, we could have left it there, knowing that it did not do the job that we knew the Committee wanted it to do. We accordingly went to our draftsmen and draftswomen and we have made sure that the spirit of the Committee is now being put into law.
2015-03-09a.43.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Rory Stewart	Without being too pedantic or too pompous at this point, there is an important procedural point here when we discuss being naughty or otherwise. There is an important conceptual element in setting up an ombudsman, which is showing respect to Parliament, respect to the Committee system—respect to both the Bill Committee and the Select Committee. Rather than getting into the ins and outs of politics, I encourage the Minister to see this as a great success and a great model for the way such things can go forward in the future.
2015-03-09a.43.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Anna Soubry	I think the hon. Gentleman misunderstands me. We could have played politics, but I absolutely was not going to do that. My officials would not dream of such a thing, of course, but we could have done that because the amendments were not clear. I took the firm view that it was clear what the Committee wanted and that we should do everything we could to put it into effect. There was a good argument for waiting until the next armed forces Bill, but I took the view that that would not be right. It was clear what the Defence Committee wanted and what the Public Bill Committee wanted. That is why the Government have tabled the amendments. We know that that is, in effect, the will of the legislature. I am pleased to see my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart) nodding. The amendments will give us a Bill and a process that will help our people understand when they can approach the ombudsman, on what matters and at what stage of the process, and they will give the ombudsman the teeth needed to hold the services and the MOD to account. I therefore commend amendments 1 to 21 to the House.
2015-03-09a.43.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Madeleine Moon	Amendment 22, which is in my name, seeks to define “undue delay”. I pay respect to the Minister, who has taken time to meet everyone involved with the Bill. We had considerable discussion on the issue of undue delay and how it could be defined, and we agreed that, although I would not press the amendment today, it was important that there was a dialogue about delay. There are two things that one can say for certain about the current complaints system: delay is an endemic problem within the system, and everyone is aware of it. It came to the attention of the Committee many times that only 25% of cases are resolved within a 24-week target, and only 26% of complaints made in 2013 were closed during that year. The internal risk register looking at the implementation of the service ombudsman Bill within the MOD stated that there was a high risk that the system would lose further internal credibility if there was continuing media exposure of how powerless the ombudsman is. Rather than media exposure taking place, it is important that the system operates well so that there can be internal confidence. There is a high risk that the system will continue to fail and that current delays will continue. There is a high risk that service personnel will be let down, damaging their mental health and leading to suicide attempts. None of us wants to see any of that, which is why the Defence Committee has worked as closely as possibly with the Minister to ensure that we move forward in a constructive and productive manner. In January 2013, 325 complaints had a red flag. By December 2013 that figure had swelled by over 50% to 500. We have seen repeatedly how delay has been used to wear down complainants so that they go away. It is also used as a punishment for complaints being made in the first place. Members have raised concerns about this being an attack on the chain of command. Let me say that, since the Bill Committee, I have taken time—I have spoken to the Minister about this—to talk to people in the chain of command and to ask them how they feel about the changes introduced by the Defence Committee. Every person I have spoken to has welcomed the changes and not felt threatened by them. They all felt that the changes were right and that they would focus people’s minds and attentions on complaints so that they are not put in a cupboard and regarded as an annoyance, but are seen as one of the parts of the job to be dealt with first, so that the unit operates efficiently and effectively. The bad pennies that exist would be dealt with quickly and a clear message would be sent that bullying and harassment, in particular, would not be tolerated anywhere in the chain of command. Delay is caused in part by the labyrinthine system that was initially set up by the Ministry to process complaints. In his evidence to the Defence Committee, retired Lieutenant Colonel Jeremy Field railed against the masses of paperwork involved. The abuse of process by those in the chain of command either to propel a dubious complaint or to hold up a legitimate but inconvenient one is also a worrisome cause of delay. Such abuses can have a devastating impact on individual complainants and on their mental health and well-being. When such cases come into the public domain, the system and confidence in it are undermined. I raised the case of Tom Neathway on Second Reading and in Committee. Another concerning case that I would like to mention briefly is that of Sergeant Major Michael Booley, who was Prince Harry’s flying instructor. He accused the Army of gross mistreatment after a four-year dispute that ended his distinguished career. When reading about the case, it is very worrying to see that the service complaints panel found that Major Graham, who Sergeant Major Booley claimed had been acting deliberately and maliciously against him, was an unreliable witness and that his conduct not only wronged the complainant, but acted against the interests of his employers in the Army. I think that that is the big issue. Where there is bullying and harassment, it is against the interests of the Army, the RAF or the Navy. We must always keep that central to our thinking and our focus when looking at complaints. That is why the changes set out today are so important. I think that it is important to have some sort of definition of undue delay, but I accept that it might not necessarily need to be in the Bill, or even in regulations. It can be something that the ombudsman sets out herself when setting out the definitions that will guide her judgments. I therefore hope that the Minister will consider and discuss with the ombudsman how we can move that forward.
2015-03-09a.45.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Kevan Jones	I give the Minister 10 out of 10 for her brass neck, because these amendments were tabled subsequent to her losing the vote in Committee, and the Government do not want to press them to a vote tonight for fear that she might lose again. The amendments are consequential to the major change that took place in Committee, namely that to the nature of the ombudsman. What the Minister originally proposed was a dry institution that would have dealt only with maladministration, but the ombudsman’s role has now been opened up to cover a wider range of complaints. I have been arguing for that for a long time, and the Defence Committee also argued effectively for it in its report. The Minister said that she could have left out the amendments, but, knowing her civil servants as I do, I do not think they would have thought highly of her if she had attempted to put through legislation that was not appropriately drafted, or if the amendments that were made in Committee resulted in bad law. Based on my experience, I think they would have taken a very dim view of the Minister if she had not tabled the amendments. These amendments clarify the two major amendments that changed the nature of the Bill in Committee. Government amendments 1 to 6 make it clear that the ombudsman can only investigate a complaint received from an applicant, and they also address the issue of delays. One of the major frustrations for many of those who have made a complaint is that they have faced delays. My hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) has championed their rights, and she and the Defence Committee have highlighted their concerns. I think that the amendments will lead to a change in culture, particularly in the Army. The length of delays in some cases has frankly been ridiculous and that, as my hon. Friend has said, has caused huge grief to some individuals. The amendments may speed up the process and mean that some of the complaints will not end up before the service complaints ombudsman. Amendments 7 to 15 ensure that it needs to be specified whether an investigation relates to maladministration, a service complaint or another type of complaint. They also make it clear that an investigation should recommend redress in cases of maladministration or delay. The ombudsman will be allowed to investigate any maladministration, not just that which is being complained about. The hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart) and his Committee wanted the ombudsman to have those wider powers. I therefore welcome the amendments, which will put into effect the amendments we agreed in Committee. The amendments will also allow the ombudsman to decide whether to investigate service complaints as a whole or whether to look at only part of a complaint. The hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) asked about frivolous and vexatious cases, but the ombudsman will strike out those that will not go anywhere. The amendments put in place ground rules similar to those that are already in place for the local government ombudsman and the parliamentary ombudsman, whereby we expect the internal processes to be exhaustive in themselves. The amendments will help address cases that are unduly delayed, as highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend. I have a great deal of sympathy with my hon. Friend’s amendment 22, but it is really difficult to define what is meant by a delay. The amendment would clarify that a delay meant longer than a year or any length of time that the ombudsman thought appropriate. I know why she has tabled it and it is good to discuss it, but I would prefer the matter to be left to the ombudsman. A very simple issue should be dealt with very quickly—in a matter of weeks or months—so even if we specified one year, we would ask why it had taken so long. However, I understand the spirit behind my hon. Friend’s amendment. As I have said, the overall framework means that the Army will look at the way it deals with service complaints. In local government and other areas, performance indicators mean that deadlines for internal disciplinary procedures have to be met. I hope that such a culture will be driven within the armed forces to ensure that complaints are dealt with quickly and expeditiously, although I accept that in some cases investigations may take a long time, not only because of the complexity of the complaint but because of the nature of armed forces operations. We support the Government amendments, which give credence to the amendment made in Committee. The recommendations for redress are covered in amendments 16 to 21. Findings on maladministration and the ombudsman’s recommendations will be brought forward within a certain time, which will give some comfort to many members of the armed forces who deal with these issues. If the internal chain of command takes an undue time over what should be a simple inquiry, they will know that there is another avenue available. The ombudsman may well need to highlight some of the complaints to the chain of command to ensure that the logjam in such cases is dealt with more quickly. I support the amendments to ensure that we have a system that will not only address the issue of undue delays, but, as we have hoped for a number of years, provide an ombudsman whose remit is wider than just maladministration.
2015-03-09a.46.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Anna Soubry	I must say that I thought I had been rather gracious in defeat, so it was a little churlish of the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) — [ Interruption. ] He shouts louder than I do from a sedentary position. I have to say that it is to the coalition’s credit that all we are doing in the Bill, with the creation of the ombudsman, has been done in just over four years, while the Labour party did not do it in 13 years. I want to address amendment 22. I know it is an awful expression, but the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) and I are absolutely on the same page. We know that undue delays are the absolute devil of any system. It is not a widespread problem, as my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) , who has moved to a different place, has quite clearly and properly said, but when it happens, it is a real problem. The attitude is, “Oh, let’s prevaricate. Let’s put up some device. They’ll just go away, or they’ll give up in the end.” We must stop such an attitude, so I completely and totally understand what the hon. Lady is seeking to do. In that respect we are absolutely at one, but not on how we achieve it. I obviously accept the good intentions behind amendment 22, but I shall it because it is not the device to achieve what we both want. The time taken in progressing a complaint can be affected by any number of events, such as illness, deployment, which I have mentioned, and training. Sometimes the complainant shows a lack of interest, even though the complaint is valued and should be pursued. A complainant might decide not to pursue it for a period but then come back to it, or they might not be going to pursue it and then realise that they should do so for reasons that we can imagine, but often because others have given them support. Of course, the need to find relevant information can also delay things. It is important for all concerned that no strict definition is applied. If one were, it might deter worthy cases from being raised or constrain the ombudsman’s discretion as to what is in scope. I am one who looks for discretion as opposed to fixed, determined dates or targets. It should be for the ombudsman to set out guidance on what individuals might need to consider if they believe that they have suffered undue delay in progressing their complaint. This is not a matter for legislation. Putting the advice in the ombudsman’s guidance will ensure that there is the necessary flexibility to adapt it to reflect real experiences. With some complaints, undue delay might be six or nine months. We need that flexibility. That is why it is right to leave it to the ombudsman to set out her—or, in time, his—guidance.
2015-03-09a.47.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Madeleine Moon	To use the horrible expression that the hon. Lady used, we are on the same page. As of 26 January 2015 , 1,033 complaints that had been open since 2013 were still unresolved. We are on the same page in that neither of us wants to see that continue. Let us hope that the ombudsman finds a way to deal with such undue delays.
2015-03-09a.47.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Anna Soubry	Absolutely. I hope that the hon. Lady is comforted by the fact that we are looking at whether the complaints that are already in the system can be brought into the new system. I imagine that long delay is a matter that we will want to bring to the ombudsman’s attention. Again, it all depends on the nature of the complaint and what the circumstances are. The Second Sea Lord, Sir David Steel, made the point to me that he had seen some cases in the Navy that were huge because they were about complicated allowances and so on and so forth. However, it struck me that the cases that the hon. Lady referred to were not particularly complicated. Those delays were absolutely unacceptable. It is often the person-to-person complaints or grievances that must be dealt with expeditiously. That is in everybody’s interests, not just the complainant’s. The person against whom the complaint is made also wants determination and justice. Not every complaint is well founded; there are cases in which false allegations are made. It is therefore in the interests of the person against whom the complaint is made that it is dealt with fairly, justly and with all due diligence and expedition. For all the reasons that I have given, I resist amendment 22 and urge everyone to accept the other amendments. Amendment 1 agreed to. Amendments made: 2, page 6, line 29, after “complaint”, insert “, where the Ombudsman is satisfied that the complaint has been finally determined”. This amendment makes a drafting change in consequence of amendment 9. It clarifies that the Service Complaints Ombudsman may not investigate a service complaint unless satisfied that the complaint has been finally determined. Amendment 3, page 6, line 31, leave out from “complaint” to end of line 32 and insert “(including an allegation of undue delay), where the Ombudsman is satisfied that the complaint has been finally determined;”. This amendment makes minor drafting changes, including a change in consequence of amendment 9. It clarifies that the Service Complaints Ombudsman may not investigate an allegation of maladministration unless satisfied that the service complaint to which the allegation relates has been finally determined. Amendment 4, page 6, leave out lines 33 to 37 and insert— “(c) an allegation of undue delay in the handling of a service complaint which has not been finally determined; (d) an allegation of undue delay in the handling of a relevant service matter.” This amendment clarifies when the Service Complaints Ombudsman may investigate an allegation of undue delay in the handling of a service complaint or a relevant service matter (as to which, see amendment 6). Amendment 5, page 6, line 37, at end insert— “(1A) The following persons are within this subsection— (a) in a case relating to a service complaint, the complainant; (b) in a case relating to a matter in respect of which a service complaint has not been made, the person who raised the matter, and, in relation to a case mentioned in paragraph (b), references in the remainder of this Part to the complainant and to a service complaint are to be read respectively as references to the person and the matter mentioned in that paragraph.” This amendment makes provision about who may make an application to the Service Complaints Ombudsman for an investigation under new section 340H(1) of the Armed Forces Act 2006. Amendment 6, page 6, line 37, at end insert— “( ) For the purposes of subsection (1)(d)— (a) “relevant service matter” means a matter of a kind about which a service complaint— (i) may be made, whether or not at the time of the application to the Ombudsman such a complaint has been made, or (ii) could have been made (but for provision made by virtue of section 340B(2)(c)); (b) the reference to the handling of a matter is to its handling before the making of a service complaint (if any) about the matter.” This amendment defines “relevant service matter” for the purposes of paragraph (d) of new section 340H(1) of the Armed Forces Act 2006 (see amendment 4) and makes provision about the reference to the handling of such a matter. Amendment 7, page 6, line 39, after “writing,”, insert— “() must specify the kind (or kinds) of investigation which the complainant wishes the Ombudsman to carry out (an investigation under a particular paragraph of subsection (1) being a “kind” of investigation for this purpose),”. This amendment provides that an application to the Service Complaints Ombudsman must specify which type or types of investigation the applicant wants the Ombudsman to carry out. Amendment 8, page 6, line 40, leave out “the” and insert “any other”. This amendment is consequential on amendment 7. Amendment 9, page 6, line 42, leave out from beginning to “a” in line 44 and insert— “( ) For the purposes of this section, a service complaint has been finally determined where— (a) ”. This amendment converts new section 340H(3) for the Armed Forces Act 2006 into a general proposition about when a service complaint is to be treated for the purposes of new section 340H as having been finally determined. Amendment 10, page 7, line 5, leave out “that”. This amendment is consequential on amendment 9. Amendment 11, page 7, leave out lines 7 to 11 and insert— “( ) The purpose of an investigation is— (a) in the case of an investigation under subsection (1)(a), to decide whether the complaint is well-founded and, if so, to consider what redress (if any) would be appropriate; (b) in the case of an investigation under subsection (1)(b), (c) or (d), to decide— (i) whether the allegation is well-founded, and (ii) if so, whether the maladministration or undue delay to which the allegation relates has or could have resulted in injustice being sustained by the complainant.” This amendment clarifies the purpose of an investigation under each paragraph of new section 340H(1) for the Armed Forces Act 2006. Amendment 12, page 7, line 11, at end insert— “(4A) The power to carry out an investigation under subsection (1)(a) or (b) includes power to investigate any maladministration in the handling of the service complaint where it becomes apparent to the Ombudsman during the course of an investigation that any such maladministration may have occurred.” This amendment provides for the circumstances in which the Service Complaints Ombudsman has power to investigate maladministration in the handling of a service complaint (other than any maladministration that the complainant has specifically alleged). Amendment 13, page 7, line 12, after “application”, insert “in respect of a service complaint that has been finally determined”. This amendment is consequential on the amendments to new section 340H(1) for the Armed Forces Act 2006 (in particular amendments 2 to 4). Amendment 14, page 7, line 25, leave out “investigated an application relating to” and insert “carried out an investigation under subsection (1)(a) or (b) in relation to”. This amendment confines new section 340H(8), which prevents the Service Complaints Ombudsman from investigating subsequent applications relating to a service complaint that the Ombudsman has already investigated, to cases where the Ombudsman has carried out an investigation under new section 340H(1)(a) or (b) in relation to the complaint. Amendment 15, page 7, line 31, at end insert “; (b) whether to investigate a service complaint, or an allegation, as a whole or only in particular respects.” This amendment provides that the Service Complaints Ombudsman may investigate a service complaint, or an allegation, in whole or in part. Amendment 16, page 7, line 44, after “investigation”, insert “under section 340H(1)(b)”. This amendment is consequential on amendments to new section 340H(1) of the Armed Forces Act 2006. Amendment 17, page 8, line 43, at end insert “, and (b) any recommendations referred to in subsection (2A).” This amendment requires the Service Complaints Ombudsman to include, in a report under new section 340L, any recommendations required by subsection (2A) (see amendment 18). Amendment 18, page 9, leave out lines 1 to 4 and insert— “(2A) Those recommendations are— (a) on an investigation under section 340H(1)(a) where the Ombudsman finds that the =-service complaint to which the investigation relates is well-founded, the Ombudsman’s recommendations (if any) on what redress would be appropriate; (b) on an investigation under section 340H(1)(b), (c) or (d) where the Ombudsman finds that the allegation to which the investigation relates is well-founded, the Ombudsman’s recommendations (if any) as a result of that finding; (c) where, by virtue of section 340H(4A), the Ombudsman finds maladministration in the handling of a service complaint, the Ombudsman’s recommendations (if any) as a result of that finding.” This amendment provides for the recommendations which the Service Complaints Ombudsman can make as a result of findings on an investigation under any paragraph of new section 340H(1) or by virtue of new section 340H(6). Amendment 19, page 9, line 5, leave out “(2)” and insert “(2A)(b) or (c)”. This amendment is consequential on amendment 18. Amendment 20, page 9, line 8, after “maladministration”, insert “or undue delay to which the finding relates”. This amendment is consequential on amendment 18. Amendment 21, page 9, line 10, after “maladministration”, insert “or undue delay”. — (Anna Soubry.) This amendment is consequential on amendment 18. Third Reading
2015-03-09a.50.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Anna Soubry	I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. I thank the members of the Public Bill Committee, who did an excellent job of ensuring that the issues covered by the Bill were thoroughly looked at. The service complaints system is not one of which many Members of this House have first-hand experience. It is therefore to the credit of the members of the Committee that they quickly grasped the key issues behind the Bill. I am very grateful for the contributions that were made from both sides. In particular, I thank the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) for her involvement in these issues over a number of years. She played a key role in Committee and our debates this afternoon, and I know she feels strongly about the issues she raises. I commend her for her tenacity and for the passion with which she makes her case. I am delighted that she will continue to pursue all those matters and to scrutinise the Bill should it have the good fortune of reaching the statute book. She will not give up on her campaign to ensure that things are done properly by all those who serve in our armed forces, and the Bill is undoubtedly better because of her involvement. I also thank the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) . There is some rivalry between us, because we went to opposing schools—although not at the same time; he is much younger than I am. I like to think that that is the reason for some of our rivalry in our discourse in the House and Committee. He has approached these matters in a constructive and knowledgeable way. I wish to emphasise that, because he speaks on the basis of knowledge having served as a Defence Minister, and he therefore knows what he is talking about even if we do not always agree. He has done much to ensure that the Bill has been properly scrutinised, which is important in these proceedings. I thank the Defence Committee and its Chair, my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart) . He is no longer in his place, but I am sure he is about somewhere and hopefully he will read this debate. The Committee produced an excellent and detailed report on the Bill last year, which has done much to focus our debates on the most significant issues. I am delighted that my hon. Friend has made clear that his Committee will continue to do the job that it has been doing over a number of years, to ensure that we have a good, fair, robust complaints system in the way we have identified. In that respect we are absolutely in agreement. The Bill does two important things: it improves the system for handling service complaints, and—we seem to have forgotten this because it is not contentious, although it is incredibly important—it ensures that we can provide funding anywhere in the world to organisations, notably our great military charities, that support our armed forces community. It is clear from debates on the Bill that there is general agreement about the need to reform the services complaints system, and we all agree on the importance of having a system that is fair, effective, swift when it has to be, and efficient. Having a robust complaints system is a key part of maintaining morale and therefore ensuring operational effectiveness—a happy crew, ship, team or whatever will work better. That is pretty obvious; unfortunately, it is not always obvious to some, although I hope it will be from now on. It is not a “nice to have” but an essential part of the covenant between our society and those who are willing to lay down their lives to defend it. As I said, clause 4 has attracted less interest because it is not contentious, although it is important. It will allow us to support organisations that help our armed forces community anywhere in the world, which we all agree is a good thing. The amendments will mean that the proposed service complaints ombudsman will have a wider role than first envisaged. He or she will be able to look at the substance of complaints and at any maladministration in the way it has been handled, not just that alleged by the complainant. The ombudsman will also be able to investigate allegations of undue delay at earlier stages in the process, whether or not a complaint has been made, and that is a good thing. I will not pretend that this is what the Government initially wanted, but we have listened to arguments from all sides and we have accepted them. I emphasise that on balance I believe that the changes have left us with a stronger and more robust system of oversight with more protections for the individual. The Bill now delivers the right complaints system for our servicemen and women, and on that basis I commend it to the House.
2015-03-09a.52.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Mr Speaker	I call Mr Kevan Jones: Portland school, as opposed to Hartland school, but both rejoicing in their being in or close to Worksop.
2015-03-09a.52.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Kevan Jones	We at Portland were always better at snowball fighting than Hartland, Mr Speaker. This is a very important day. The Bill brings into being an armed forces ombudsman, something that is long overdue. I have been involved in this issue since I came to Parliament, both as a member of the Defence Committee and as a Defence Minister in the previous Government. This day will be pleasing to those who have campaigned over many years for a system of oversight and redress for our armed forces. I am thinking of the families of those involved in Deepcut and the recommendations of Mr Justice Blake’s report. People have campaigned over many years to get to this point today. The Minister asked why the previous Government did not introduce this measure during our 13 years in office. We did: we set up the Armed Forces Service Complaints Commissioner. Did some of us at the time want to go further? Yes, we did. I argued for that very strongly, along with other members of the Defence Committee, including my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian (Mr Hamilton) who was on the Opposition Whip’s Bench a moment ago. He made very strong representations to try to get to this point in 2006. I have to say that the people who argued against it were the conservative elements of the chain of command and the Conservative Front-Bench team of the time, who said that it would be the end of the world if we even had a Service Complaints Commissioner. Those same voices thought that this next step would be a step too far, which is possibly why the Government were initially resistant in Committee to the changes. I said in Committee and I say it again now: I do not think there is anything in the Bill that senior members of the chain of command in our armed forces should be fearful of. If we look back to when we introduced the Service Complaints Commissioner, there was an argument that people would be interfering with the chain of command. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, what has happened is that senior military personnel now see that the way in which Susan Atkins has carried out the function of Service Complaints Commissioner has added not only to the process of accountability and transparency, but with the recommendations that she has brought forward. I put on record my thanks to her for how she has carried out the job. She saw the limitations that she was acting under right from the start, but like any good regulator she pushed where she could and brought about change within the system.
2015-03-09a.53.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Bob Stewart	Just to back up what the hon. Gentleman is saying, it is the way Dr Atkins has carried out her duties that has encouraged everyone—even dinosaurs like me—to think that this is a seriously good thing and a step forward. I am delighted to say that the people who, like myself, were against the idea to start with, have been totally converted by the work of Susan Atkins.
2015-03-09a.53.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Clause 2 — Reform of System for Redress of individual Grievances	Kevan Jones	That is the change. I am glad to see dinosaurs still alive and kicking on the Conservative Back Benches, and long may they live. I wish Nicola Williams all the best in the job she has before her. The Bill sets out a new era, but I think it will be very rewarding for her to ensure that the issues we have raised during the passage of the Bill are addressed. One of the issues to be addressed, and which the armed forces have to wake up to, was raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) : the delay in dealing with complaints. Most organisations, whether companies, local councils or even central Government these days, would not put up with the delay in dealing with complaints. The armed forces need a performance mechanism to enable complaints to be dealt with simply, quickly and effectively, and the nearer to the source of the complaint the better. Even if they do not like the outcome, at least early resolution avoids the added injustice of people thinking they are being messed around by the system. I just hope that the armed forces, particularly the Army, will take that on board and that we can ensure the speedy resolution of some complaints. Of course, the perfect position would be if the ombudsman did not have anything to do, but that is not going to happen—there is already a backlog. Over time, however, not only will she be able to suggest improvements to the system, but I hope that slowly we can educate people in the chain of command that a more effective way of dealing with complaints and disciplinary action in general would be a better way forward. I thank the Defence Committee for its work on the Bill. As I said, it is a good example of a Select Committee—the current Committee and its predecessors over several years—taking a keen interest in a subject, ensuring parliamentary scrutiny and not letting go of an issue. It has kept on pressing for this type of redress system. I also think that the changes made in the Bill Committee have improved the Bill—the Government were wise to accept the amendments, because had we not done that now, we would have had to return to the issue in four or five years’ time—and I wish the Bill Godspeed through its remaining stages. We must support our armed forces not only with our words in the House, but with an effective system that supports armed forces personnel on the rare occasions—as the Minister said, they are rare—when things go wrong and which gives them the justice and support they deserve. Question put and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Third time and passed, with amendments.
2015-03-09a.55.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Consumer Rights Bill	Mr Speaker	I must draw the House’s attention to the fact that financial privilege is engaged by Lords amendments 12M and 12S. If the House agrees to those amendments, I shall cause the appropriate entry to be made in the Journal . I have selected amendment (a) to Lords amendment 12Q, which stands in the name of Philip Davies. After clause 32
2015-03-09a.55.4	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Jo Swinson	I beg to move, That this House agrees with Lords amendment 12J.
2015-03-09a.55.5	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Mr Speaker	With this it will be convenient to debate the following: Lords amendments 12K to 12P. Lords amendment 12Q and amendment (a) thereto. Lords amendments 12R and 12S.
2015-03-09a.55.6	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Jo Swinson	It is a veritable alphabet soup of amendments, Mr Speaker. On 24 February in the other place, the Government agreed with amendments tabled by Lord Moynihan to introduce light-touch regulation of the online secondary ticketing market, alongside a statutory review of the market. The Bill has therefore returned to us for further consideration. It sets out a simple, modern framework of consumer rights that will promote growth through confident consumers driving innovation and more competitive markets. Consumers, knowing their rights are protected if things go wrong, will have greater confidence to take up new products and switch suppliers, which will help to create a competitive and thriving economy. The Bill contains important new protections for consumers alongside measures to lower regulatory burdens for business. All this together will make markets work better, which is good for consumers, good for business and therefore good for growth. It will have an impact across all sectors of the economy and address many of the concerns we hear daily in our own constituencies. Chapter 1 gives consumers a new right to a refund on faulty goods within 30 days. Chapter 2 protects consumers in law for the first time when they buy digital content, while schedule 5 means business will get more notice of routine inspections by trading standards. These represent an important package of reforms that businesses and consumer groups have been waiting for and preparing for. Once the Bill receives Royal Assent, we will alert business to the forthcoming changes well ahead of the Act coming into force. Since December, there has been one outstanding issue to resolve before the Bill can be sent for Royal Assent—how to address issues in the online secondary ticketing market. This is the market where fans sell tickets they can no longer use to fans who missed out on tickets the first time round. It is a much safer and more convenient environment for fans to buy and sell tickets than dealing with shady individuals in the backstreets around venues. There are some concerns, however, about how this relatively young market is working, as I explained when we last considered this issue in January. I know that many hon. Members have been following this area very closely, and I appreciate the keen interest in this issue. I know that several members of the all-party parliamentary group and of the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport are in their places today, and I pay tribute to their extensive work on this issue over a number of years. The Competition and Markets Authority has also been active in this area. I warmly welcome its announcement last week that it has secured further protection for consumers. This work makes an important contribution to our parliamentary debates. To deal with them, there has been general agreement across the House on two central points: we agree on the importance of a safe and secure environment for fans to buy and sell tickets; and we agree on the need for event organisers, the marketplaces themselves and enforcers to play their part in combating fraudulent practices in the resale market. We were not, however, able to support an amendment made by the House of Lords in November. While that amendment aimed to increase transparency in the market, we were concerned about privacy and unintended consequences for the secondary market. We did not think that that amendment would allow the secondary market to continue to thrive or to be a proportionate and appropriate response to concerns that had been raised. Since December, we have been working intensively with all the relevant stakeholders to see if a compromise could be reached—a compromise that allows fans to resell tickets they cannot use, but one that also tackles some of the known issues in the market.
2015-03-09a.56.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Philip Davies	The Minister in the House of Lords said that the Government were accepting these amendments on the basis that people would still be able to sell on their tickets at any price they could command, and that the sports bodies concerned could not blacklist anybody who decided to do that. Will the Minister confirm that that is the Government’s position and the basis on which they are accepting the amendments?
2015-03-09a.56.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Jo Swinson	I am certainly happy to confirm that position. There is already protection in the unfair trading regulations, and any unfair terms can be challenged in law, so they should not be included. There would be many circumstances in which the terms surrounding the cancellation of ticket reselling would be deemed to be unfair. My only caveat would be that, in some circumstances, such terms might be appropriate. If, for example, a particular category of ticket aimed at a particular sector such as a youth audience were sold at a discount and it was important to increase access to such events for a particular group, some restrictions on resale could be justified and the terms deemed to be fair. I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) will reassured by what I have said. On 24 February , the other place agreed to add provisions to the Bill to protect consumers in the secondary ticket market. Those addressed the concerns I raised during our last debate and, importantly, they achieved cross-party welcome and support. The provisions cover four main issues. First, they put on a statutory basis the review that I announced here on 12 January . They also give more details on what the review will cover and how it will be conducted. It will be a full review of consumer protection measures in the secondary ticketing market. As I explained during our last debate, this will be an independent review and it will be presented to Parliament. The review will start this summer and be presented to Parliament within a year of the duty coming into force. The review will look at the current law, including any new provisions, and assess how best to protect consumers. It will be an invaluable opportunity to gather evidence on how the market works and how consumers can best be protected when operating within it. Secondly, there is a requirement that online ticketing marketplaces report criminal activity on their sites. Where they are aware of such activity—for example, fraud—they must report it to the police and the event organiser. This new requirement addresses an issue many hon. Members raised during the Bill’s passage. There is criminal activity and fraud in this market, as there can be in any market, and we should be concerned about that.
2015-03-09a.57.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Philip Davies	The Minister is being typically kind in giving way. What measures exist to prevent people from setting up online sites offshore, and how would the law apply to an offshore internet site that was selling on tickets in a secondary market?
2015-03-09a.57.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Jo Swinson	The hon. Gentleman has identified challenges that exist in regulation of all kinds that applies to the internet and to foreign sites and companies. I do not think that those challenges can be the basis for an argument against trying to make the market fairer. We have built a consensus with the key players in the industry, and have arrived at proposals that they believe to be workable. We have a secondary ticketing market that works very successfully for many consumers in this country, and because there are existing, established providers, it is unlikely that there will be a sudden exodus of tickets to sites abroad. Consumers will also be aware of the protections from which they benefit when using sites in the United Kingdom. The legislation will cover sites with which they are already familiar. There is no benefit in making crimes “doubly” illegal, but it is important for us to improve reporting and enforcement, and the new requirement to report fraud will help in that regard. The final two changes that we are making address the issues of transparency and consumer protection directly. To improve transparency, those who sell tickets online must give buyers some basic information. That information, when applicable, consists of the face value of the ticket, the seat number, and any restrictions relating to the person who can use the ticket. When those in the secondary market, event organisers or certain other connected persons are selling the tickets themselves, they must make that clear. The provision is complementary to, and supplements, existing law. It ensures that buyers will be given some of the most important information that they will need in order to make an informed choice. Crucially, the list of information that must be provided does not include the name of the individual seller, so individual consumers will not have to give their names when they sell online. As was pointed out when we considered the earlier amendments in January, that is an important way of protecting sellers from identity theft. We are providing a finite list of the most important pieces of information that a consumer will need to make an informed purchasing decision, thus ensuring that there is compliance with relevant EU law. I know that some Members—including the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) —fear that the new information will allow event organisers to cancel tickets or blacklist sellers. That might, of course, be unfair on fans, and give those event organisers unfair control of the market. We share those Members’ concern, which is why our provisions build in consumer safeguards. An event organiser will not be able to cancel a ticket or blacklist a seller merely because the ticket is resold or offered for resale, unless there is a term in the original sales contract that allows for that, and, perhaps more important, the term itself is fair. Terms that prohibit resale are not always fair, and those that are not fair do not bind the consumer. Similarly, terms that seek to prohibit resale at or above a particular price are not always fair, and not always binding on the consumer. The combination of transparency and consumer safeguards will allow the secondary market to flourish. It will ensure that no one, including event organisers, has a monopoly on resales, or an unfettered ability to set prices in the secondary market. The new system of light-touch regulation will make buyers and sellers confident about using the market. It will make the market more dynamic, and will benefit consumers further by creating competition in relation to price and quality of service. The review that I mentioned earlier will ensure that that outcome materialises in practice. If other issues arise, or if the new legislation has any unintended consequences, the review will pick that up. The hon. Member for Shipley has shown great interest in the Bill, and has brought a great deal of energy to our debates.
2015-03-09a.58.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Philip Davies	Is that a compliment?
2015-03-09a.58.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Jo Swinson	It is indeed a compliment, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman takes it as one. If the hon. Gentleman’s amendment were passed, chapter 3B would cease to apply two years after coming into force. The Government share his fear that regulation of the resale market could threaten the current online ticket marketplaces. That is why chapter 3B makes it clear that tickets cannot be cancelled or their sellers blacklisted merely because the tickets are offered for resale, unless certain strict conditions are met. The consumer protection that amendment 12Q seeks to introduce is already part of these provisions. Striking this down after two years would neither help nor protect consumers.
2015-03-09a.58.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Philip Davies	The Government have set great store by the review they are going to carry out after the election and after the legislation has been introduced. Surely a sunset clause of two years will give that review much more power, because it will mean that by the end of the review the Government will have to make specific proposals to implement its recommendations, rather than just a review taking place and dying?
2015-03-09a.59.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Jo Swinson	My hon. Friend clearly takes that view. However, I think that two years after the legislation has come into force is not very long at all. It would be very shortly after the review had concluded and the Government had issued their response. Indeed this would already have pre-empted the outcome of the review by saying it should be sunsetted, because if the review finds that the new provisions are working well, it will be required to take action to make that continue. The review might recommend removal of the provisions, but in that scenario we would also want the benefit of the advice on the best timing in which to do so, rather than some arbitrary date being imposed. However, what I would say to reassure my hon. Friend is that if such action was required as a result of the review, the Government could use primary legislation to repeal chapter 3B without needing a sunset clause. Finally on amendment 12Q, we should take a step back and look at how it could impact on the market. I am sure I do not need to remind this House of the disruption caused by changing the law too often. Changes and reforms are necessary and important, but there are costs to business in implementing a new regime, and to have it repealed wholesale after two years would incur significant costs. We must also consider the major events we host in this country. Amendment 12Q would mean that fans of some such events benefit from the new regime, but others do not. For example, fans buying and selling tickets for events such as the world athletics championship in 2017, possibly the biggest athletics event we will have hosted since the Olympics, would lose out. That would not be fair on those fans. In conclusion, we believe the provisions agreed in the other place create a proportionate, light-touch regime to protect consumers and the secondary market. I encourage Members to support them and allow this important Bill to move to Royal Assent.
2015-03-09a.59.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Ian Murray	I am delighted that this issue has now come back to this place, as we have always believed that the Consumer Rights Bill gives an opportunity to provide real protection against rip-off practices, particularly in the secondary ticketing market. We all know that healthy, fair and competitive markets are vital to building an economy that works for both consumers and businesses. We also know that well-informed consumers make for better customers and better-informed citizens get better outcomes in dealing with both the public and private sector. Ticket touting is a classic example of a market where a group of traders are colluding to restrict supply and so push up prices, ripping off consumers by overcharging them and as a result shattering the dreams of many fans. We have argued this throughout the passage of the Bill and, while we are pleased that Ministers are now in agreement, they have been dragged here kicking and screaming to make these changes. I was delighted that in the last sentence of her speech the Minister agreed with the Lords amendments, but it has taken her three years to do so. That sums up this Administration. They rail against good ideas from Opposition Members, charities, non-governmental organisations, trade bodies, trade unions, the public and others, and then they are eventually embarrassed into having to bring forward the very provisions they have railed against. We have witnessed that with regularity, first on allowing the Groceries Code Adjudicator to fine people, and also on giving tied landlords a better deal with pubcos and better enforcement of the national minimum wage to name just a few, and they even had to be dragged kicking and screaming to do something about zero-hours contracts. Now we have the secondary ticketing issue, where the Minister and the Government are arguing against their views of just a few weeks ago. On 21 January 2011 the Culture Secretary told Parliament: “Ticket resellers act like classic entrepreneurs” and that concerns about touting represented “the chattering middle classes and champagne socialists”.—[ Official Report , 21 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 1186 , 1187.] That is obviously not the case now. On Friday 6 February 2015 the Daily Mirror quoted the Culture Secretary as saying unscrupulous websites have every right to hoover up sought-after tickets for football matches and pop concerts and flog them at five or 10 times the asking price. He said: “There’s nothing wrong with a healthy second market” and went on to say “I don't have any problem with it.” He obviously does now. On 12 January 2015 , the Minister herself argued: “There is a more substantive issue of principle. Is it right for Government to tell consumers that they cannot sell items that they have bought second-hand at above the price that they paid for them?”—[ Official Report , 12 January 2015; Vol. 590, c. 661 .] She obviously thinks that that is now okay, just a few short weeks later. Labour MPs have been campaigning on this issue for several years, and have supported amendments to the Consumer Rights Bill right from the start of its progress through this place, but it has taken the Government more than a year—during which time they lost one vote and voted against the measures on three occasions—to admit that they were wrong. I should like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) . When, in future, people buy tickets on the secondary market to attend that cup final they have always dreamed of—just a dream for many of us—or for that concert by the band they always wanted to see or that festival on their bucket list, they will be able to thank her for her courage and perseverance in getting us here today and for her role as the co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on ticket abuse. Her co-chair, the hon. Member for Hove (Mike Weatherley) , also deserves a great deal of credit for the way in which he has cajoled his colleagues to come this far and brought his considerable experience of the industry to this place. I wish him well in pastures new after he steps down at the general election. The all-party group recommended “greater transparency in the secondary market, in particular on whether the seller is a professional or occasional seller, and what the face value and individual characteristics of the ticket are.” This is a huge issue, as the secondary ticketing market in the UK is valued at more than £1 billion a year. We must protect consumers in that marketplace, and that is why we have pressed so hard for these amendments. Let us look at two recent examples of why the measures are needed. In November 2013 there was outcry after all 20,000 tickets for Monty Python’s reunion performance sold out in three quarters of a minute, only to reappear on secondary ticketing websites at more than 15 times their face value. That was not the work of the Messiah; it was the work of a very naughty boy. High-profile concerts by the Stone Roses at Heaton Park in July 2012—I think my hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) went to all of them—were being advertised on secondary ticketing websites for more than £1,000 after tickets had sold out, having had an original face value of just £55. The Government amendments, although late and forced, are very welcome. We agree with the new clause creating a duty to provide information about tickets. This covers the information that sellers of secondary tickets will now have to provide when reselling tickets. That information includes the seat number, or detailed location if the event is standing only, and any additional restrictions on the use of the ticket. For example, information will have to be given on whether the seat has a restricted view—I am sure we have all ended up in restricted view seats; perhaps I do so because I go for the cheap seats—or whether admittance is restricted to over-18s. The information will also have to include the face value of the ticket and the original selling price, and state whether the seller is employed by or linked to either a secondary seller’s site or an event organiser. On 12 January , the Minister spoke against the notion of transparency, but it is difficult to see how the proposal now being put forward by the Government, agreeing with the Lords amendments, overcomes her previous concerns. We agree with the new clause on the prohibition on cancellation or blacklisting tickets. This will mean that event organisers will not be able to cancel tickets arbitrarily just because they are being resold. When we debated this matter on 12 January —a date that will no doubt be etched on the Minister’s mind—a similar amendment was tabled by the Opposition to protect fans from being unable to sell their tickets on. The Minister said that she could not support the amendment, yet the Government have now backed an amendment on the exactly same issue. We also agree with the new clause providing for a duty to report criminal activity. This places a duty on the secondary ticketing websites to report it to the police when they discover that a seller is using the site to commit fraud. We have significant concerns, however, that the measures will not be properly enforced, given that we have heard recently from the Trading Standards Institute that trading standards departments have been cut by an average of 40% since 2010. We agree with the new clause creating a duty to review measures relating to secondary ticketing. There must be a statutory review of the consumer issues in the secondary market within 12 months of the Act coming into force, as the market moves so quickly. This will offer an opportunity to review whether the requirement for companies to provide more information about the tickets being sold has enabled action to be taken to tackle ticket touts. There are a number of things that we want the Government to do in any such review. Having said that, it will probably be my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) sitting on the Government Benches and taking these matters forward after 7 May , but I will put these points on the record none the less. The review should consider: the enforcement of consumer regulations; online software— the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) mentioned enforcement for companies based outside the UK—especially the kind that can hoover up large volumes of tickets in a short space of time and push up prices; tickets that never reach primary markets; lost tax revenue to the Treasury; and additional charges. We have seen the Competition and Markets Authority take action on additional charges, but they still seem excessive. Lastly, we would like that review also to examine collusion, as there is widespread concern that some “secondary ticket sales” are actually event organisers seeking to use these sites to sell tickets at higher prices without being accountable to fans for doing so. We hope that the review will examine such issues. We very much welcome the Government U-turn on this issue but just wish it had happened a lot sooner. As for the amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) , does he not want to stand on the side of his constituents who are being ripped off by secondary ticket sites? Perhaps it would have been better if his amendment had introduced a sunset clause on this Government, meaning that they expired five years after their introduction—perhaps that is what we should do on 7 May . We have managed to get to a position where we can protect consumers when they buy tickets on the secondary market. Be it a ticket for a popular west end show bought as an anniversary present, a ticket for your beloved Arsenal or for my club, the famous Heart of Midlothian football club, a ticket for a sold out One Direction concert—do they actually sell out?—or a ticket for an iconic sporting event such as Wimbledon, we can now buy our secondary tickets with confidence, protection and transparency. That is why we agree with the Lords amendments.
2015-03-09a.62.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Philip Davies	It is difficult to know where to start, but I shall begin by saying that there was one thing on which I very much agreed with the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) , which was when he said at the start that the Government had in effect done a massive U-turn—they clearly have. My colleagues ought to be aware that in a few minutes’ time, or whenever it may be, they will be encouraged by the Minister to vote for something that they have twice been invited to vote against. I should say to the hon. Gentleman that if his party is lucky enough to be in a position to put a coalition together after the election and he is thus thrashing around for coalition partners, he will have seen at first hand what happens in coalition with the Lib Dems: they find it easy to change their view on something within a few weeks, and usually it does not take them that long.
2015-03-09a.62.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Clive Efford	On changing minds, perhaps the hon. Gentleman should look closer to home, as the Prime Minister seems to have changed his mind about TV debates.
2015-03-09a.63.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Philip Davies	You would rule me out of order if we got into a slanging match about TV debates, Mr Speaker. The hon. Gentleman is an affable chap and I am happy to have a cup of tea with him afterwards so we can discuss the merits of the TV debates. I do not think this is the right venue for such a discussion, as I would rightly be ruled out of order if I were to go down that route. I knew it was a mistake to give way to him. Once upon a time, as you will recall, Mr Speaker, the Conservative party used to believe in the free market. It appears to be an increasingly alien concept these days, but I am wedded to the idea and I always thought it was what the Conservative party believed in. I am talking about the idea that if someone owned some property, they were free to sell it on to somebody at a price they were happy to sell it for and others were happy to pay. That is the whole essence of the free market, and it happens with every possible thing we can ever buy, including houses—they are in short supply at the moment too, with much more demand than supply. But I worry that Government Members seem to have given up completely on the free market.
2015-03-09a.63.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Kelvin Hopkins	rose—
2015-03-09a.63.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Philip Davies	I am happy to give way to someone who never believed in the free market.
2015-03-09a.63.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Kelvin Hopkins	Indeed; the hon. Gentleman has a point. The free market operates where supply can actually be increased. Where there is a limited supply, the price simply increases and people are exploited.
2015-03-09a.63.4	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Philip Davies	I am interested in what the hon. Gentleman says. I do not want to rehearse all the arguments we have had in the past, but what we are talking about does not just happen with tickets. For example, limited edition products are sold all the time—there is a limited number of them. When a painting is sold, there is just one and the demand for it may well outstrip the supply. Is the hon. Gentleman saying that wherever demand outstrips supply and the supply cannot be increased, nobody should ever be able to make a profit? That may well be the policy the Labour party is arriving at: nobody is ever allowed to make a profit. That is a perfectly respectable position for the hon. Gentleman to hold, and he holds his positions consistently, and with great vigour, honour and determination. I do not blame those in the Labour party for being in favour of these kind of restrictions: because they are socialists, they do not want people to make a profit and they want to regulate every aspect of people’s lives. That is fair enough; I respect them for that, although I do not like it. What I object to is the fact that Conservative Members are being asked to give up on the free market.
2015-03-09a.63.5	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Jim Cunningham	I always have great respect for anything the hon. Gentleman has to say. I have to tell him that the UK Independence party has adopted the free market mantle now, as his party has gradually eschewed it.
2015-03-09a.63.6	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Philip Davies	The hon. Gentleman kindly said that he had a great deal of respect for what I had to say, which is certainly more than can be said for most people on the Government Benches, so I am very grateful to him for that kind comment. It probably will not do much for his reputation within his party, but I am grateful for it, because I have a great deal of respect for him, too. I believe in the free market and am not ashamed of doing so. I believe it acts in the best interests of the consumer. The hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) said he was surprised that I was not standing up for my constituents as consumers, but I am. I believe in the free market; I believe that people should have the right to sell on their ticket if they buy one and then find that they cannot go to the event or that somebody else is prepared to pay a higher price for it. I will happily take my chances with my electorate at the general election, to see whether they are happy that I look after their interests, just as he will put his record before his electorate at the general election—we shall see how we both get on. The Minister glossed over the fact that the Government have done a complete U-turn on this issue. I do not know whether she is embarrassed about that or not, but I would be if I were in her shoes.
2015-03-09a.64.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Christopher Chope	I am surprised to hear about the extent of the U-turn. Can my hon. Friend explain why there has been such a U-turn? Surely the Government are normally consistent—or try to be consistent—from one week to the next.
2015-03-09a.64.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Philip Davies	I congratulate my hon. Friend on keeping a straight face when he said that, but it is not for me to explain it. I have certainly kept my position consistent, and I have to congratulate the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport on maintaining a consistent position on these issues. I can only presume that the interference of our Liberal Democrat coalition friends in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills has led to this about-turn. We have an issue here, because the Minister seems to be arguing that nobody in the secondary market has anything to worry about and that their industry is going to thrive, prosper and flourish, yet all the sporting bodies and events organisers, and some of our hon. Friends, are cock-a-hoop about this. They are not cock-a-hoop because they think the secondary ticketing market is going to thrive and prosper as a result of this Lords amendment being accepted; they are cock-a-hoop because they think the exact opposite will happen. I have to congratulate the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) , who has been very persistent on this issue, and my hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Mike Weatherley) . They obviously knew what they were dealing with in Liberal Democrat Ministers; they knew that they were always in the game for a U-turn whenever the Lib Dems were involved, and I congratulate them on their industry and initiative in that regard. The question nobody has asked is why are the sporting bodies and events organisers so keen for the full details of the ticket—the row number, the section number, the ticket number, the seat number and the whole lot—to be published online? Let me give hon. Members the answer. They are so desperate to have that information so that they can see who bought the ticket, cancel the ticket if it gets sold on to somebody else, blacklist the person involved and prevent them from ever buying a ticket in the future. The only reason they want this information is so that they can use that information to stop this market. The Government have said that these bodies will not be able to do that—the law will say they cannot do that—but I would like to know from the Minister who is going to police that? When somebody turns up to an event with a ticket bought from a secondary ticketing site and the event organiser says, “Sorry, I’m not going to let you in. We don’t like the look of that ticket. We saw it in the secondary ticketing industry”, who is going to be there from the Government to say, “No, this chap should be allowed into this event”? Nobody will be there. That person will be sent away and never get to see the event they wanted to see—the Government will have let them down. Even if the person went to court and won the case, they would still have not got to the event they particularly wanted to see. It is an absolute con if consumers think this will protect their interests when they buy a ticket from the secondary market. The sporting bodies know it and the hon. Members here who have been agitating for this measure know it, and that is why the sporting bodies and the events organisers are so keen to have this information. The Minister says that people cannot be blacklisted, but who is going to police that? Who is going to stop it? What resources are the Government putting in to make sure that does not happen? The answer is none. Basically, there are just warm words. The Government are repeating what they did on immigration, which is making a promise that they know they are in no position to keep. It is that kind of thing that brings politics into disrepute. The Minister said that consumers could now have confidence in the market, but where is the evidence that consumers do not have confidence in the secondary ticketing market? Consumers have confidence in the secondary ticketing market, but the sporting bodies and the big event organisers do not. If people did not have confidence in it, they would not be buying tickets there in the first place. The problem for these big bodies and these multi-millionaire music organisers is that too many people do have confidence in the secondary ticketing market, which is why they want to damage it. That is why we should reject these Lords amendments this evening. What will happen is exactly what I predicted in an intervention on the Minister. We have a successful online secondary ticketing industry in this country. Lots of people are employed in it and it works very well. When the regulations come in and the things that I describe happen, the companies will have no alternative but to up sticks and locate themselves in a foreign jurisdiction, taking their jobs with them. They will set up their sites and advertise their tickets in offshore territories around the world. It will make absolutely no difference to the consumer. In fact, as the Minister said, it will weaken the consumer protection that we currently have in the secondary ticketing market and it will make absolutely no difference to people selling on their tickets at a profit. This is just a job export scheme from a successful industry in this country for no good reason at all. It is an absolute travesty that the Government are giving in on this particular issue. Amendment (a) would introduce a sunset clause to the Bill. A few weeks ago in a parliamentary question, I asked how many Government Bills had contained sunset clauses in recent years. I am pleased to say that hundreds upon hundreds of pieces of legislation have contained sunset clauses. The Government are quite happy to put sunset clauses in legislation. In fact, we should have more sunset clauses in legislation to see how the provisions work in practice. There is a huge divergence of opinion over the impact of the legislation. The Minister says that the secondary market will flourish and expand, that everything will be fine and dandy and that nothing will change. The sporting bodies, music event organisers and secondary ticketing market do not agree. Undoubtedly, we will end up with some kind of court case to determine what terms and conditions are fair or unfair. Who will decide that? It will not be this House; it will be unelected judges, and all because the Government do not have the guts to put in the Bill what they consider to be fair or unfair. When those court decisions are reached, surely this House and the House of Lords should revisit the issue to see whether everybody’s intentions have been met. The Government said that they will review the industry after this legislation comes into effect, but we all know that that is the old civil service talk for kicking it into touch or the long grass. That promise is designed just to get us over this debate. Afterwards, it will be, “Well, we won’t worry about that review.” It will just end up in the quicksand somewhere. Everybody knows what happens with these so-called reviews: they die a death and nothing ever happens. My amendment would ensure that that review was meaningful, that something positive would come out of this, and that we could start again. This legislation is a fundamental infringement of the free market. Whether or not people agree with the Lords amendment, we are making a very big change. We have barely any time to debate it. It was not debated on Third Reading, because it was not even in the Bill. It is most unsatisfactory to pass serious legislation in this way. Before this amendment, I supported this legislation. I have voted for a Bill that now contains something I would have voted against. I have no opportunity to say that I do not agree with this particular Bill. That cannot be the way to pass important legislation. A sunset clause would allow us to come back to this matter properly in two years’ time, and to start afresh with a Government Bill in which everything is debated properly right from the word go.
2015-03-09a.66.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	John Redwood	Will my hon. Friend give me some idea of how much damage might be done to the industry during a two-year phase?
2015-03-09a.66.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Philip Davies	My right hon. Friend makes a good point. The Minister argued that two years was very short. In two years’ time, the whole industry could have upped sticks and gone abroad. It may well be that my two-year sunset clause is too long. I will happily be chastised for that, but I thought it was important that we put a line in the sand. I thought that two years would give us a reasonable time to see how the legislation worked with different tournaments and different music events. It is ample time for people to consider the effects. If those people who are in favour of the Lords amendments are so confident in their arguments, they have nothing to fear from a sunset clause. If everything is fine and dandy and none of my fears comes to fruition, the Government will happily reintroduce the legislation and it will sail through because it has been shown to have worked. They do not like the sunset clause because they know that the point I am making is the real agenda behind this Bill, and they do not want to be rumbled. Once the Bill is on the statute book, the Government think that that will be it and nobody will bother or have the courage to revisit it, and I suspect that they are right. That is why I have tabled my amendment. I understand that there may be some difficulty in having a vote on it, even though it is sensible, and I am sorry that the Government have refused to accept it. This is an unfair and unnecessary intrusion into the free market. Who knows what consequences will flow from this legislation? I shall urge my colleagues to do what they have done twice in recent times already, and vote down the Lords amendment. I shall be interested to see how many of my colleagues vote for something that they have happily voted against in recent weeks and how, as a general election is coming, they will justify their action to their constituents. I shall happily be able to tell my constituents that I stuck to my guns, that I did not change my mind and that that is why I do not want to be in coalition with these wishy-washy Liberal Democrats any more.
2015-03-09a.67.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Sharon Hodgson	As many in the House are aware, I have been interested in the secondary ticketing market for many years now, and, alongside the hon. Member for Hove (Mike Weatherley) , I have co-chaired the all-party parliamentary group on ticket abuse, the report of which spearheaded the former amendments to those we are debating today. It is my long-standing belief that for a long time things have needed to change in the sector, as more and more fans are being ripped off and exploited by unscrupulous touts, and ordinary people are being priced out of seeing the artists, shows, or teams that they love. The full extent of the problem was clear last week when the Competition and Markets Authority, after consulting the major ticket re-sellers, published a new code of conduct—an agreement for which the CMA was happy to take all the credit, somewhat ignoring all the hard work and campaigning over many years of Members, peers and other industry bodies, and on which we are now legislating. However, that small gripe aside, on the very same day that the new code of conduct was announced, a person could go on some of those companies’ websites and find tickets, guaranteed, for the upcoming boxing match between Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao in Las Vegas. On one site, the cheapest came in at just under £4,000, and the most expensive floor seats at more than £32,000. That was despite the fact that last week there were no official tickets yet on sale and original ticket prices had not even been agreed. That is a ludicrous situation which leaves the public totally misinformed about the marketplace and serves only further to inflate prices when the tickets become available.
2015-03-09a.67.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Mike Weatherley	Does the hon. Lady agree that it was bizarre that the CMA came out with guidance only days before Parliament was debating the issue and passing laws in this House? It seemed almost to usurp what we are doing.
2015-03-09a.68.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Sharon Hodgson	I totally agree. As I have mentioned, I was surprised that in the press coverage the CMA was taking all the credit for the new measures given that Parliament has been pushing for this in both Houses. As the new authority, which is replacing the OFT, has now agreed with Parliament, the CMA should perhaps have mentioned that fact in some of its press coverage. Sadly, the example I have given is one of many hundreds of thousands that routinely happen every day. It is only through measures such as the Lords amendment that we can hope to tackle the worst excesses of the industry and put the genuine fans first. Let me be clear that the argument and the fight have never been about stopping the resale of tickets. The legitimate resale of tickets is not the problem and those who have claimed that clamping down on ticket touts and increasing transparency will harm true fans know very little about the problems and even less about what needs to be done to address them. Greater transparency is never a problem for a market operating properly and it is only in the interests of illegal ticket touts to sit back and do nothing to change the law. Others say that this is a licence for event organisers to cancel tickets, but the amendment clearly sets out that event organisers cannot cancel tickets simply because they have been resold, and can do so only in very specific circumstances. I am glad that that safeguard is in the Bill. The hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) has tabled a characteristically unhelpful amendment that would insert a sunset clause for the provision—an act that is as misguided as it is obstructive. I know that the Opposition will vote against it and I am sure that the Government will too, as it is our intention to work on behalf of the fans and not the touts. Any further debate on that point gives it merit that it simply does not deserve. Before I consider the specifics of the amendments proposed in the other place, let me praise Lord Moynihan for his diligent cross-party work and for succeeding in achieving such an important step towards strengthening the regulations in the sector. As a former Sports Minister, he knew first hand how pernicious the practice is. It has been an extremely productive experience working with him, as it has been with many other colleagues in both Houses who care just as passionately about the rights of fans as he, the hon. Member for Hove as my co-chair on the all-party group, the members of the all-party group and I do. I know that Lord Moynihan worked tirelessly over the last recess to secure a compromise with Ministers across two Departments—a feat few could accomplish—and event goers and fans across the country owe him a debt of gratitude for the amendment. As has been said, the amendment will do three key things to help stop the exploitation of fans. First, it will boost transparency, as from the time the Bill is enacted, ticket resellers will have to provide a seat number, any restrictions or limits on the ticket and the original face value of the ticket to all those they hope to sell it to. That will give fans far more knowledge about what they are buying and will give event managers more information about the tickets that are being resold. Secondly, the amendment will place a duty on ticket resellers to report criminal activity if they suspect it, making the enforcement of the law much more proactive and effective and discouraging the secondary market platforms from turning a blind eye and letting the worst excesses of these practices continue. Finally and crucially, the amendment compels the Secretary of State to review measures relating to the industry in a report to Parliament after 12 months, and that is what I would like to use the remaining time to speak about. The improvements in the amendment are a crucial first step, but they do not solve all the problems we can see in the sector. The review process will be absolutely vital in taking representations from the industry and making proposals that can build on the legislation and get to the heart of what is wrong with how things operate. There is much that needs to be considered in the review, but I shall limit myself to a couple of key points that must be investigated if we are ever properly to understand why the problem is so persistent and deep-rooted. The first is the speed at which secondary ticketing sites get access to tickets in the first place. Secondary ticketing platforms can have hundreds if not thousands of tickets on their sites and ready to be sold within minutes of their first going on general release and in some cases even before they have gone on sale. How can that happen without sophisticated software, such as bots, harvesting them, without certain so-called power sellers working alongside the platforms to get tickets on their behalf or without inside trading, such as behind-the-scenes deals in which premium tickets are not sold on the primary market but given straight to the secondary market to be sold at huge mark-ups?
2015-03-09a.69.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Mark Tami	Does my hon. Friend agree that in some circumstances those people never have tickets in the first place but are chancing their arm to see whether they could get inflated prices?
2015-03-09a.69.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Sharon Hodgson	I agree. Sometimes they are following through on a fraudulent transaction and sometimes the listing is speculative, as they might try to get a ticket later and want to see how much they can sell it for. Given that there is no lawful way to harvest large numbers of tickets and that behind-the-scenes deals are at best duplicitous and immoral, we must ask just how the situation can take place and continue. Further to that point, if the tickets showing on the system have not been acquired, how can the sellers guarantee their sale on their sites? An investigation of those guarantees must be central to the review, because if that approach is found to be misleading, it would directly go against consumer rights, which are of course the entire purpose of the Bill. One way the all-party group on ticket abuse thought of to solve that would be to publish the seller’s identity when reselling tickets. I am sure that that will also be considered in the review. The duty under the new amendment to report criminal activity is welcome, but we must also ask why past instances of criminality have been so largely unreported in the sector, even when the secondary platforms have been the victims and have had to pay out large sums in compensation. Has that been seen simply as collateral damage? It cannot be a continued coincidence and questions must be asked in the review. In conclusion, the review is crucial and much needed and will have to be handled carefully and expertly so that we understand how best further to protect the public. That is why the choice of chair is so important. The marketplace is so complicated that it will need somebody who understands it but who is fair minded enough to listen and engage with all parties while keeping the rights of the fans at the heart of the entire process. If I may be so bold as to venture a suggestion, I think that my all-party group co-chair, the hon. Member for Hove, would be an ideal candidate to take up the challenge after he leaves Parliament. I do not know what his plans are—he might be hoping to travel the world and have a normal life for a while—but I can think of no one better. Whoever is chosen, however, I am confident that they will ensure that the right questions are asked, the right leads are pursued and the right outcome is achieved so that at last we can be sure that the market will put fans first.
2015-03-09a.70.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Mike Weatherley	It is an honour to follow my co-chair on the all-party group, the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) . The amendment is the culmination of four years of hard campaigning and it is a little ironic that we have only about two minutes to squeeze in all our comments. I will not go through all the points that have been made so admirably by my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) and the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West, as there is no point in doing so, other than to say that the bots have made the free market untenable and something needs to change. I want to make two particular points. The first is about the review, which is crucial. I thought at first that that would be like kicking the issue into the long grass, as my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley said, but it is an essential part of the reforms. The critics of the reforms are screaming about the potential problems, as we have heard, whereas those who want more action are screaming that more should be done. That is a lot of shouting, but time will tell and the review, which will report in a relatively short period of time in parliamentary terms, will closely consider both claims and at last come up with a proper analysis and recommendations. The legislation specifically states that terms and conditions need to be fair, and making sure that they are fair must be part of the review. The terms and conditions that event organisers attach to tickets are there to protect fans—not to take advantage of them, as my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley indicated they might be. Where fans have bought tickets for genuine use, and have a genuine reason for resale—that is, where they have bought tickets not just to make a profit—I am fully behind their ability to resell. I will make sure that that is a fundamental principle in the review. Equally, I will make sure that the insertion of “fair terms” in the amendment is not the secondary ticketing industry’s way of undermining all these changes to the law. I am pleased that groups such as the Sport and Recreation Alliance, the England and Wales Cricket Board and the Rugby Football Union are fully behind the amendments. As with all compromises, neither side is fully happy with the solution, but on balance, this is a good step in the right direction. The review will be key. With this review, the UK, with its rich cultural heritage and world-leading position, will once again be the focus of world attention. I suspect that the review will act as a blueprint for many countries around the world—both those that have enacted secondary ticketing legislation, and those considering doing so.
2015-03-09a.71.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Ian Murray	The hon. Gentleman has put so much effort into ensuring that we got to this point today. Will he, with his experience of the industry, say what he would like the conclusions of the review to look like? What questions should be asked to make sure that the secondary ticketing market works best for both consumers and businesses?
2015-03-09a.71.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Mike Weatherley	I thank the shadow Minister for his intervention. The review must be balanced. Obviously, I am pushing for more regulation, because I feel that the free market has fallen down, but we should consider experiences around the world. There are states in America that have repealed secondary ticketing laws, and we need to look at why. Was it because the legislation was badly drafted? Norway and Denmark have laws under which tickets cannot be sold above face value, but they have never been enacted. Is that because, as someone mentioned, trading standards teams do not have enough teeth to implement such measures? All of that needs to be in the review; that is absolutely essential. There are so many aspects to the review that it will be quite an exciting one. To summarise, and to misquote E.M. Forster on democracy, two cheers for the amendment, but not quite three. However, I am really pleased that we will enact this law before the end of this Parliament, and before I step down. This is very much a good step forward.
2015-03-09a.71.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Secondary ticketing platforms	Jo Swinson	I congratulate the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) and my hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Mike Weatherley) on their tireless work on this issue. They should be pleased with the outcome that they have managed to achieve. I want to address two points that came up in the debate. The first was the question, “Why now?”, and the second was about the CMA. On the question of why now, my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) seemed to suggest that we had voted for something and will now be voting against it, or some such thing. The amendments that we are considering differ in two respects from the ones that we considered in January. First, on privacy, the amendments in January stipulated that the name of those selling tickets would have to be a piece of information that was made transparent. We thought that there were privacy concerns about that. Secondly, there were concerns about compliance with EU law—the technical standards directive—and that could unfortunately have rendered all the provisions unenforceable. That was because of the de facto price cap in the amendment put forward by the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West. For those reasons, although we understood the concerns brought forward, we could not accept the amendments in January. Of course, those concerns have now been addressed; that is why we are able to accept the Lords amendments today. Last week’s announcement by the CMA has been mentioned. The CMA in no way sought to usurp the work done in this House. It had done a long-running piece of enforcement work against four sites. The announcement covered the transparency elements of amendment 12J, but the amendment puts things on a statutory footing and should be very welcome. The CMA does, of course, have significant power. To address the concern raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley, it would be able to stop an organiser cancelling tickets. The CMA has shown that it is willing to act in this market should there be any concern that tickets were being cancelled, and I am sure that it would be happy to do so in future. On the international point, as the provisions apply to marketplaces and sellers targeting the UK, enforcement action can take place elsewhere. Indeed, the CMA recently pursued successful enforcement action against several websites, including viagogo, which is of course based in Switzerland. That shows that we have the enforcement to back up these consumer protections, which are proportionate, and which do not give rise to the privacy concerns that we had before. They will help to make sure that the secondary market can genuinely thrive and work better for consumers.
2015-03-09a.76.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Eleanor Laing	I inform the House that Mr Speaker has selected the amendment in the name of Sir William Cash.
2015-03-09a.76.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	I beg to move, That this House takes note of European Union Document No. 5080/15 and Addenda 1 to 4, a Commission Communication: Commission Work Programme 2015–A New Start; and supports the Government’s view that the most significant initiatives are those that focus on the strategic priorities set out by the European Council in June 2014 to promote jobs, growth and investment in the EU. This is the fourth such debate in which I have taken part as Minister for Europe, but I think it is the first time I can say that the European Commission has sent a strong message that it intends to do things in a different fashion from how its work has been carried out in the past. The clear message from President Juncker and his team is that they want to focus on a smaller number of key priorities and that they wish to set limits on the degree to which the Commission, and the EU collectively, can interfere in matters that are often better handled at national or local level. Of course, the test of that message will be what happens in practice; it is actions that will count, not words. However, I am encouraged by the creation of the powerful post of First Vice-President of the Commission, which gives Frans Timmermans, the former Dutch Foreign Minister, an overarching power to veto any proposals that do not meet the requirements of subsidiarity and proportionality. He is already making it clear that a key element of his responsibility is to say a firm no to fellow commissioners, to the European Parliament and to outside lobbyists and to focus only on those matters where the Commission judges that European action would genuinely give Europe added value that could not be achieved by other means.
2015-03-09a.76.4	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	William Cash	I have spoken with Mr Timmermans a number of times in COSAC meetings with the chairmen of the 28 member states. On the question of national Parliaments, which is the key question in relation to subsidiarity—it is the question of what should be done best at the appropriate level—is not it the case that, for all the words about involving national Parliaments, we will not get much change out of Mr Timmermans, any of the Commissioners or the European institutions if we insist on national Parliaments at the expense of the European Parliament?
2015-03-09a.76.5	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	I do not want to pre-empt tomorrow’s debate on the European Union’s relations with national Parliaments and the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality. My hon. Friend is right to identify this as a challenging agenda and to indicate that the European Parliament, in particular, is likely to be resistant to the idea of a stronger voice for national Parliaments, but I think that he is too pessimistic in his assessment of Frans Timmermans. After all, it was during Mr Timmermans’s tenure as Foreign Minister of the Netherlands that the Dutch came forward with a number of specific proposals for strengthening the role of national Parliaments in holding EU decisions to account. I take heart from the fact that we have in this powerful role within the Commission somebody who has previously gone on the record to say that the guiding principle should be, “Europe where necessary, but national where possible”, and who has been very sympathetic to ideas for strengthening the role of national Parliaments. The Commission has set out a clear intention to be more strategic and to act in a smaller number of areas where there is real added value for the EU. It has also said that it wants to demonstrate a particularly strong focus on jobs, growth and European competitiveness, which are objectives that the Government strongly support. The Commission has pledged to create a closer partnership with member state Governments and national Parliaments. We can see some evidence of the Commission’s approach by looking at some of the numbers in the work programme. The work programme includes just 23 legislative and non-legislative policy initiatives and—importantly— 80 measures proposed for either withdrawal or modification.
2015-03-09a.77.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	John Redwood	Does the Minister not note that most of the measures being withdrawn either are obsolete, having been superseded by a measure that has already gone through, or are being withdrawn in favour of a more ambitious proposal? It is complete nonsense to say that the Commission is giving up power and wishes to do less. This is a massive work programme and the 80 measures are just a con trick.
2015-03-09a.77.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	I think that my right hon. Friend is being too pessimistic. As I said earlier, the test will be whether at the end of five years we can look back and say that the Commission has delivered in practice what its words indicated at the start of its tenure. I completely accept that there is a real problem with the Commission’s working culture, which, to be fair, like many national Government Departments, tends to judge success by the output of new law and new regulation, rather than the quality of what is actually done on a number of core priorities. I was pleased to note that the Commission confirmed this weekend that 73 of the measures proposed for withdrawal have now been formally withdrawn. By comparison, the 2014 work programme proposed 29 new initiatives and prioritised a further 26 measures for adoption, and in 2010 there were some 300 new measures proposed. This work programme is focused on fewer measures, and on measures that will encourage growth and jobs, deepen the single market, conclude trade agreements and improve regulation, freeing up business from unnecessary regulatory burdens. The Government welcome that new focus.
2015-03-09a.77.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Jacob Rees-Mogg	I cannot agree with my right hon. Friend. Of the 73 proposals being withdrawn, 71 are either obsolete or have already been blocked by the Council. Of the 79 actions being withdrawn under REFIT, 58 are evaluations or studies, five are proposals to codify, two are proposals to simplify, one is a proposal for a simplified framework and two are proposals for an update or a review. There is only one that would reduce something, against 452 Commission proposals, less the 73 that are sitting on the table. He tells us that this is a great success for Europe. What would be failure?
2015-03-09a.78.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	Failure would be Europe failing to give priority to job creation, economic growth and competitiveness at a time when a horrifying number of people, particularly young people, are out of work in this continent and when European competitiveness is not only slipping behind that of the United States, but is at risk because of the global shift of economic power to Asia and Latin America. The answer to those economic challenges lies in Europe raising its game dramatically as far as competitiveness is concerned.
2015-03-09a.78.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Keith Vaz	I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman most warmly on lasting the whole Parliament as Minister for Europe, which must be a first. I understand that he and the Government received this Commission work programme some time ago, so why has it take so long to get it to the Floor of the House? I might be wrong about that, so will he clarify when the Government first received it?
2015-03-09a.78.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	I can check the precise date and let the right hon. Gentleman know. There has been a delay, which I regret, because it has taken time to get collective agreement on this and on a number of other debates that the European Scrutiny Committee has referred. Originally, we considered having this debate in Committee, but, having discussed the issue with my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House after he had given evidence to the European Scrutiny Committee, the Government decided to have a debate on the Floor of the House. I am just glad that we are having this debate relatively early in 2015.
2015-03-09a.78.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	William Cash	I suspect that that is an invitation so say that the amendment that I and many other members of my Committee have tabled, which I hope the Minister will accept, deals with free movement—a massive issue that affects immigration. The fact that it has been not merely delayed, but stalled for more than a year must have been a coalition decision, but we have not been told who was behind it, so who was it?
2015-03-09a.78.4	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	As I told my hon. Friend when I last gave evidence to his Committee, the Government take decisions collectively and it would not be right for me to go into detail about internal Government communications. I will come to the issues raised by the amendment shortly, but first I want to say more about the importance of the proposed work on economic affairs and competitiveness. The United Kingdom has long argued for ambitious trade deals. The ongoing Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership and EU-Japan negotiations could benefit this country annually by more than £15 billion, so the comprehensive stocktake of trade policy proposed by the Commission is welcome. The EU’s greatest achievement—the single market—is still very far from complete, so we are pleased that the Commission plans to push liberalisation in sectors that could boost GDP the most, such as construction and professional services. We want EU legislation to enable the dynamic development of the future economy by supporting and not hindering a continent-wide digital single market. If that is done right, in a way that encourages the growth of online trade—both retail and business to business—it could generate €250 billion over the lifetime of this Commission. We also support the Commission’s vision of a well-regulated and integrated capital markets union of all 28 member states that maximises the benefits of capital markets and non-bank financing for the real economy. Lord Hill’s recent Green Paper on the subject spelled out the approach he plans to take, and the Government will, of course, engage with his team as the policy is developed further. We welcome the fact that the Commission intends to consider a range of approaches, and not just legislation, to develop Europe’s capital markets, and that much of that will be delivered through member state and industry action, rather than through EU-level law or regulation.
2015-03-09a.79.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	John Redwood	Will the Minister comment on the investment programme, which is said to be significant? How much of it is a spending commitment by the European institutions from their levies on member states, and how much will be done by gearing and leverage through guarantees and loans?
2015-03-09a.79.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	If I get the chance, I will give my right hon. Friend the exact figures at the end of the debate, but only a relatively small amount of the European fund for strategic investments—the so-called Juncker package—is derived from reallocating parts of the existing EU budget. The majority of the proposed €315 billion for the EFSI relies very much on private sector input on the basis of gearing. Perhaps my right hon. Friend will be reassured to know that when I visited the European Investment Bank recently to discuss its approach to the programme, it was very firm in saying that it took very seriously its responsibility to its shareholders—the member states—and that it would exercise its responsibilities as a bank, that there would be due diligence, that it was not prepared simply to wave projects through on the basis that any sector or country deserved a particular slice, and that it would look at the real economic benefit that each proposal for capital investment offered to Europe as well as to the member state. One of the sectors that we think could benefit from the EFSI is energy, where there is a need for work on interconnectors that would not only make more possible a genuine single internal market in European energy, but meet the strategic objective of trying to reduce European energy dependence on Russia. We think that the Commission communication on energy union is an important step towards not only strengthening Europe’s energy security, but decarbonising our economies and deepening the internal energy market.
2015-03-09a.79.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Christopher Chope	On trying to reduce dependency on Russia, how does President Juncker’s recent proposal for a European army to stop President Putin in his tracks fit into the work programme?
2015-03-09a.79.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	In fairness to President Juncker, with whom I do not agree on that point, it is not a secret that he has held that view for a long time and I suspect it is held by pretty much every leading politician in Luxembourg. [ Interruption. ] That is the reality. A small European country would see an obvious benefit to its national interest from that sort of greater European action. The British Government do not share the view that a European army would be helpful or necessary. We believe that NATO is and should remain the centrepiece of our collective defence and security arrangements. Were there to be any move towards establishing greater European military integration, it would first require consensus among member states, because such matters cannot be determined by a qualified majority vote under the treaty. Moreover, as I am sure my hon. Friend will recall, in passing the European Union Act 2011, this House required that there would have to be both an Act of Parliament and a referendum of the British people before any British Prime Minister could give consent to a proposal for the establishment of an EU army or armed forces in some hypothetical future.
2015-03-09a.80.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	William Cash	Of course, if we were no longer members of the European Union by that time, we would not need to give consent because we would not be in the position to do so.
2015-03-09a.80.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	We can argue about all sorts of improbable hypotheticals, but the key point is that, while President Juncker was expressing a view that he has made no secret of holding in the past, this is not a live issue for debate around the table in Brussels at the moment. In fact, both President Juncker and others who have spoken in support of a European army or defence force have said that they see it as being a very long-term objective. Turning to the amendment tabled by my hon. Friend and a number of other members of the European Scrutiny Committee, the Government recognise public concerns about immigration from other member states and the need for the Commission to do much more to address the abuse of free movement rights and the problems to which it gives rise. That is why this Government have gone further than any previous Administration to try to tackle the problems associated with free movement both domestically and at the European level. We have acted domestically to tackle abuse and ensure that the rules governing access to our welfare system and public services are as robust as possible. Only today, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has laid regulations in Parliament to ensure that EU jobseekers have no access whatsoever to universal credit. At European level, we secured language in last June’s European Council conclusions on the need for the Commission to support member states in combating the misuse of free movement. We continue to work both with member states and the Commission to reform EU social security co-ordination rules so that they better reflect current migration patterns and the divergent, diverse nature of member states’ welfare systems, while ensuring that member states can maintain effective control of their own welfare systems. Welfare provision is of course set down in the treaty as belonging to the competence of member states, rather than that of European institutions. We welcome the proposal in the work programme on the labour mobility package—it covers several such items—which will assist us in carrying forward our ideas. However, we are very clear that there is much more to do, as my right honourable Friend the Prime Minister made clear in his speech on 28 November . I therefore have no problem in welcoming the amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) , which will be agreed to at the end of the debate.
2015-03-09a.81.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Jacob Rees-Mogg	I commend my right hon. Friend’s wisdom in accepting the well thought through amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) . In relation to the debate on free movement, will Her Majesty’s Government reconsider their stance on Switzerland? If we are serious about renegotiation, it seems to me that we must take a sympathetic view of its effort to get out of the principle of free movement. If that is one of the four fundamental principles applied to Switzerland, which is not even a member state, how can we have a thorough renegotiation?
2015-03-09a.81.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	The challenge the Swiss Government face is that they have entered into a series of bilateral agreements with the European Union linking a number of different elements together. For example, in the Swiss bilateral treaties with the EU, access to some of the EU’s single market provisions is explicitly linked to accepting the principle of freedom of movement. At the moment, it is written into that package of bilateral treaties that if one is revoked or renounced, all of the agreements will fall by a certain deadline. That is the challenge the Swiss Government face following the referendum early last year. We remain in close touch with Switzerland, a friendly country, and we hope that we can find a satisfactory way forward.
2015-03-09a.81.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Jacob Rees-Mogg	rose—
2015-03-09a.81.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	If my hon. Friend will allow me, I am conscious that the debate is time limited, and I want to let other Members speak. Before I conclude, I want to refer to the question of regulation. During his hearing in the European Parliament, Vice-President Timmermans pledged to conduct a review of pending legislation, which was completed in late 2014; to launch a revised inter-institutional agreement on better law-making in spring 2015; and to conduct a review of better regulation by October 2015. We are continuing to work with other member states to implement the recommendations of the Prime Minister’s business taskforce on EU regulation—the introduction of EU burden reduction targets, even greater use of lighter regimes and exemptions for small and medium-sized enterprises and micro-enterprises, and greater independence and powers for the Commission’s Impact Assessment Board. Thirteen of the 30 recommendations of the Prime Minister’s taskforce have been fully implemented at European level, and progress is being made on others. The Commission has set out its intention to review, recast, merge or replace some 79 EU Acts as part of its Refit programme. We have long pushed for EU legislation to minimise unnecessary costs to business, particularly SMEs, and it is positive to see that reflected in the work programme and what appears to be a reinvigorated approach by the Commission to better regulation. Overall, the work programme shows encouraging signs that the Commission wishes to take the EU in what we consider to be the right direction, at least on the economic priorities. It is important to judge the Commission by what it now does in practice. In our view that means implementing the work programme in a way that respects the principle of “Europe where necessary, but national wherever possible”, reduces the burden of European regulation on business and eliminates barriers to growth, and supports increased competitiveness, trade and the completion of the single market. If that is the outcome, it will demonstrate important progress in the Government’s EU reform agenda. During the past five years, we have already secured the first ever reduction of the EU’s budget; significant reform of the common fisheries policy, including a ban on discards; the launch of talks on an ambitious transatlantic trade deal; and important protections for non-eurozone countries in respect of banking union. Just five years ago, it would have been unthinkable for the first work programme of a new Commission, which would want to demonstrate its ambition, to contain just 23 priority initiatives. That is evidence that this country’s messages are being heard and acted on. We launched this debate, and today there is growing consensus across Europe in favour of reform. We will continue to work energetically to ensure that the EU becomes more competitive and democratically accountable, deepens the single market to enable free movement of services and capital, and tackles abuse of the principle of free movement. I commend the motion to the House.
2015-03-09a.82.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Pat McFadden	This is the first of two debates on the European Union over a couple of days—a double-header, as it were. It is a bit like Davis cup tennis, the only difference being that those involved are playing exciting, edge-of-the-seat tennis, and we are discussing the work programme of the European Commission. As the Minister was speaking, I was struck, as I have been before, by how often such debates are taking place inside the Conservative party rather than more widely. It seems to me that the debate inside the Conservative party has governed much of our positioning in recent years, but not to our national advantage.
2015-03-09a.82.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	William Cash	Is the right hon. Gentleman effectively saying to UKIP in his constituency that he does not regard the free movement of people and immigration as of any interest to his constituents?
2015-03-09a.82.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Pat McFadden	I do not believe that that is what I said. I am interested in the hon. Gentleman’s intervention, because I thought that the issue for him was principally parliamentary sovereignty, rather than the free movement of people. Perhaps he has shifted his position, and I should stand corrected. The Minister outlined the position on the numbers in the measures. I noted the scepticism with which the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) greeted the numbers. I do not propose to go over that ground as the Minister has done so, but on the face of it the Commission is proposing a narrower, more focused programme—under 10 headings and 23 specific measures —than it has in the past. At the top of the Commission’s agenda is something we would all welcome—an emphasis on growth and jobs. In a continent still struggling to recover from the financial crisis, it is right to have such an emphasis and focus on the very high level of youth unemployment, on doing what is right on the big issues, and on less interference in and over-regulation of issues that do not need it. In his speech in London last week, Mr Timmermans, the vice-president of the Commission, said: “It is incredibly important that we follow through on limiting the initiatives we take to those areas where EU action is urgent and needed. For too long we worked on the premise of doing things because they were nice to do; I want to work on the premise that we do it because we need to do it, because Member States can’t do it by themselves alone. There needs to be added value of acting on a European scale.” I very much welcome that emphasis from Commissioner Timmermans, and I hope that it is followed through in reality as well as in the written plan.
2015-03-09a.83.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	John Redwood	As the right hon. Gentleman is such a fan of all this interference, will he say which of the 23 measures will actually reduce the shocking levels of youth unemployment, which are the curse of Europe thanks to the idiotic policies of this Union?
2015-03-09a.83.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Pat McFadden	I thank the right hon. Gentleman for painting me as a fan of all the measures before I have even spoken about them. One measure that could help to create jobs would be a properly negotiated free trade agreement between the EU and the United States. That has the potential to help our exporters and create jobs.
2015-03-09a.83.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Kelvin Hopkins	I gently say to my right hon. Friend that there is a range of views in our party, as well as in the Conservative party, but I shall not dwell on that. I heard Mr Timmermans speaking in Rome fairly recently, and to hear him one would have thought there were no problems at all. He was speaking in Italy, where unemployment is at horrendous levels—not as horrendous as in Spain or Greece, but still horrendous. He said that countries could not act on their own. The reason they cannot act on their own is that they are cemented into the euro and have no control over their exchange rates or interest rates. If they had control over macro-economic policy, they might be able to act on their own, but they cannot do so at the moment.
2015-03-09a.83.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Pat McFadden	I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. Certainly in the speech that I heard last Thursday, the commissioner was not saying that there were no problems at all. He acknowledged many of the problems and said that he was determined to take a different approach in responding to them from that taken in the past. It is perfectly fair for Members to say, “We’ll see how that works out. Let’s see if he’s serious about what he says.” However, that certainly is what he says, and that is reflected in the work programme. There has been legitimate frustration about over-regulation in the past. If the Commission is serious about weeding out proposals that are not going to go anywhere, that have been lying on the table for years without prospect of agreement or that have been bypassed by events, we should welcome that. I welcome the emphasis on growth and jobs and on regulation in the work programme. The other measure on growth and jobs, to which the Minister referred, is the Juncker package of investment. As the right hon. Member for Wokingham said, it is a combination of real new money and the encouragement of private sector investment and loan guarantees. If the Minister has a chance to respond to the debate, will he say what bids this Government have made for any proportion of that money? What investment projects have been brought forward and where are they in the country? Specifically, will the Minister say how that proposal is to be organised in England? There has been concern among local authorities and local enterprise partnerships that they are not permitted to put in bids and that they all have to go through Whitehall. In an environment in which we are discussing devolution to various parts of the country, it is important that areas in England get a fair crack of the whip in terms of submitting bids to this fund for their projects. I hope he will say something about that. The Minister said that the work of the UK’s commissioner, Lord Hill, on the capital markets union was important. It has long been said that SMEs are too reliant on bank finance and that we need to encourage more forms of finance. What input can this country, with its expertise in financial services, have in those proposals and in the development of the capital markets union, not only from a Government point of view but from a private sector industry point of view? Nowhere in Europe is better placed than the UK to contribute to ideas on financial innovation and financial services. Of course, some of the work programme does not apply to us. There are measures that apply only to the eurozone. It is important that countries outside the eurozone, such as the UK, continue to play a full part in the EU. If the Minister responds to the debate, will he update the House on progress on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership? In the question and answer session that followed Commissioner Timmermans’ speech last week, he was asked about TTIP. He said that if it was to be done, it would have to be done by the end of this year. He did not spell this out explicitly, but I think he meant that after that, the timetable of the American presidential election would make it more difficult to negotiate an agreement. Is it the Government’s view that if TTIP is to be done, it has to be done this year? If it is, what input are we having to ensure that that happens, provided that the important concerns about public services and investor-state dispute settlement procedures are worked through and considered properly? This debate about the work programme reminds us of the way in which we debate these things. My right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) asked when the Government received the programme. It always strikes me that we debate these things after they have been adopted. Parliament’s method of scrutinising European affairs is not the subject for tonight, but this debate reminds me that these things can be overtaken by events. There is reference in the work programme to security issues. Like the Minister, I do not agree with Mr Juncker’s suggestion for a European army. However, I do believe that the issue of security is becoming more, not less, relevant, to our European relations. One need only look at the situation in Ukraine. Since the work programme was published, we have had the shootings at Charlie Hebdo, which were a terrible reminder of the common threat we face from extremism. It is therefore important when debating the programme to realise that whatever was written last year has to keep up with the changing nature of events. When he sums up, will the Minister say a few words about what action is being taken on collective security, not of the kind that Mr Juncker referred to with the European army, but in terms of sanctions against the aggression that we have seen in Ukraine? The work programme refers to migration—that is, migration from outwith the European Union into the European Union. Last week, I met Ministers in Rome. This Minister will be aware that migration is an issue of huge concern for the Government of Italy, given the steady flow of boats from the desperate situation in Libya. The Italian Government feel, with some justification, that they are dealing with a situation that affects all of Europe. We have seen the end of the Mare Nostrum programme and the adoption of the Triton programme. That does not resolve the intense humanitarian crisis nor the political problem in Libya, where there is no Government of any coherence.
2015-03-09a.85.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Keith Vaz	My right hon. Friend is absolutely right about illegal migration. Obviously, one of the priorities in the Commission’s programme is migration. Some 3,200 people died in the Mediterranean last year, but a quarter of a million people crossed from north Africa into the EU, so this is a serious issue. Getting a common policy to stop the people traffickers exploiting migrants ought to be at the top of the EU’s agenda.
2015-03-09a.85.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Pat McFadden	I very much agree with my right hon. Friend. The Italian Foreign Minister told me that of the estimated 270,000 illegal migrants who landed in the EU last year, 170,000 landed in Italy. This cannot be a problem for just one member state, because it is broader than that. I shall be interested to hear the Minister’s views on our Government’s input in dealing with both the consequences and causes of this problem. Concerns have been raised about what is not in the programme. The Minister wrote to the Chair of the European Scrutiny Committee about the air quality package and the circular economy package. Concerns about that have been raised by Members of the European Parliament as well. A number of Select Committee Chairs have written to the Chair of the European Scrutiny Committee on the matter. It is therefore clear that there is a lot in the work programme that will concern the House. Before I end, I want to turn to the amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) and his colleagues on the European Scrutiny Committee. It asks that the Government ask the Commission to develop policies relating to the free movement of citizens. That is something that the Labour party has put forward, and before Christmas my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) produced proposals that related to how free movement interacts with access to benefits and public goods. We would like the Commission to work with member states on that, because access to benefits and public goods is not an issue just for the UK but for other member states. We saw that in the recent European Court judgment on the Dano case, which was initiated in Germany and affected a lady who it was judged did not have the right to access social security benefits. We have an interplay between a founding principle of the European Union and social security systems that are national in nature, and it is right that we discuss work in that area with the Commission.
2015-03-09a.86.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	John Redwood	When the right hon. Gentleman said that Italy should not be expected to handle the problem of migrants to Italy on its own, is he recommending burden sharing? Is he saying that other member states should take a share of those migrants through a common policy?
2015-03-09a.86.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Pat McFadden	It has already been agreed that Triton will be a European programme and not just an Italian one—the right hon. Gentleman is a little behind the pace if he thinks that is a new departure, because it has already been agreed. The question is about the resources given to the programme and whether it is capable of meeting the task it faces. I remind him of the terrible figure given by my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East of the number of people who have drowned in the Mediterranean over the past couple of years.
2015-03-09a.86.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	John Redwood	rose—
2015-03-09a.86.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Pat McFadden	I have already given way to the right hon. Gentleman. In conclusion, I believe that this work programme is a step forward from previous ones. It is closer to British priorities and reflects much of what we want to see, although we do not endorse everything in it and some of it does not apply to us. Like all such programmes, it is only a plan on paper and it will remain to be seen whether the Commission delivers as it has promised. It is certainly urgent that it does deliver to meet real and urgent priorities, and ensure that the European Union works in the interests of its citizens over the next five years. Whatever the plan says on paper, that is ultimately how it will be judged.
2015-03-09a.86.4	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	William Cash	I beg to move amendment (a), at end add ‘; and urges the Government to encourage the Commission to develop policies during 2015 relating to the free movement of EU citizens.’ It is truly shocking that it took more than a year for the Government to bring forward a debate on the free movement of EU citizens, given that the document in question was recommended as long ago as January 2014 regarding a matter of enormous significance that was discussed on 5 December 2013 in the Justice and Home Affairs Council. This issue goes right to the heart of the immigration question, which in turn lies at the heart of the European question as it applies to the United Kingdom, and it is a matter of intense political and controversial debate. It is inconceivable that this matter should have been so shockingly delayed, and that led the European Scrutiny Committee to ask the Leader of the House to give evidence and be cross-examined on why these important matters, including free movement as well as things such as the EU budget and the charter of fundamental rights, are outstanding. We were told by the Minister and the Leader of the House that they could not disclose how that decision had been arrived at because it was a matter of collective Government responsibility. The Committee is glad that by tabling the amendment it has forced the Minister to welcome it.
2015-03-09a.87.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Jacob Rees-Mogg	I wonder if I might add to what my hon. Friend is saying. Although the Minister and the Leader of the House said that they could not possibly tell us who was blocking the provision, the Home Secretary, the Foreign Secretary, the First Secretary of State and the Minister for Europe all intimated that they were very much in favour of having the debate, and wished that it could be brought forward as a matter of urgency although forces beyond their control prevented it.
2015-03-09a.87.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	William Cash	My hon. Friend is right in every respect and we have all the transcripts to prove it, including from various Secretaries of State. It is effectively an example of decisions being taken behind closed doors in smoke-free rooms. Those are the new modernising methods of government. I disapprove of them and so does my Committee, as shown by the fact that we tabled this amendment. Let us move on and accept that we are now able to debate free movement; I particularly want to concentrate on EU migration and benefits in that context. I wrote a letter to the Prime Minister on 18 November , which was 10 days before he made his speech at JCB in Staffordshire on the question of free movement, and I drew attention to the fact that I believed we were faced with a real problem. However much we might want to make certain changes, unless we were prepared to dig in and make this Parliament supreme on matters of such vital national interest, we would not get the necessary changes because some of them required treaty change and others required overriding the charter of fundamental rights. Although the Prime Minister accepted in questions after his speech that some of those matters would require treaty change, in reality that is not on offer in any substantial way from the other member states. The principle of free movement is embedded in the ideology and principles of the other member states, and particularly the European institutions and European Commission, despite how that may affect us as a small island with a greatly increasing population and pressures on social housing and education—the list is endless. Unlike other member states such as France, Germany and Spain that have large land masses and can absorb many more people, we simply cannot do so. It is therefore a matter of vital national interest—quite apart from questions that I will mention in a moment about abuse of the system—that has led us to a position where we have desperately wanted to put our foot down. Some of us believe that we should override European legislation and the charter of fundamental rights by using the “notwithstanding” formula—that is notwithstanding the European Communities Act 1972, which is past legislation as I have said many times before—so that we can ensure that our Supreme Court obeys the laws of this Parliament which is elected by our voters in general elections. When the election comes—it is only a matter of 60 days or so—this issue will be at the centre of gravity in that election, and we will be asked whether we will take the necessary steps in line with what voters insist on. I am afraid the answer to that question is that there will be no treaty change or overriding of the charter, and when I have asked Ministers and the Prime Minister whether they will use the “notwithstanding” formula, I have been told no.
2015-03-09a.88.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	John Redwood	On the narrower point of benefits, the Minister gave us encouraging news that we have control of our benefits system, as that is a reserved matter under the treaties. Does my hon. Friend recollect that on several occasions Ministers have been unable to change our benefits system in the way the British public want because of European legal blockages?
2015-03-09a.88.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	William Cash	That is completely right. People think—in elements of the BBC and elsewhere, I suspect—that this is somehow a matter of policy, and that by using the right words one can change the effect of European law. No, we cannot. We have to pass legislation. There has to be a majority in this House to override European laws and regulations. It is, ultimately and tragically, a legal framework rather than just simply a question of policy based on the wishes of voters, as expressed by their representatives in Parliament. This has only fairly recently begun to gain traction with some people in the public arena, but not sufficiently, I am afraid, to achieve the kind of impartial analysis I believe is needed, for example in the BBC. Without going into this now, I have invited—in fact, I have effectively forced—the director-general and the editor-in-chief of the BBC to appear before my Committee to explain this problem in the kind of language that ordinary people can understand. That will take place on Wednesday afternoon at 2.30 pm, for those who want to take note. The Prime Minister’s speech had a lot in it, which demonstrated the extent to which he wants to try to resolve many of these questions. That is undeniable, but the question we have to address, and to which I now turn, is the extent to which it would require treaty change or otherwise—that is the acid test. My first general remark is that the package includes only one proposal that directly limits or imposes a quota on the number of EU migrants. This would relate to future accessions and so could be part of normal negotiations. However, to impose a direct limit on migration from existing member states would certainly require treaty change. My second general comment is that many of the relevant treaty obligations have already been interpreted in this context by the European Court of Justice. The Court plays a huge, vital and exceptional role, and cannot be appealed against. It has already interpreted these matters as providing limitation on the action that member states can take in this area. Indeed, the recent case of Dano, which is frequently referred to—the Foreign Secretary referred to it on “The Andrew Marr Show” only this weekend—demonstrates that the Court can change its approach. However, some of the judgments mentioned are long-standing, well-entrenched and engage charter rights. Any change along the lines suggested by the Prime Minister would therefore not be sufficiently strong, to the extent that they rely on the Court of Justice changing its established jurisprudence. That is why we want the Commission to take account of these points—these are the issues. The European Commission is the legal guardian of the treaties. The point I am making in this speech is that, in order to change the law to ensure that we can actually deal properly with the problems that come from free movement, we have to persuade the Commission, in its work programme, to take account of such relevant questions. It could be inferred from what the Prime Minister had to say that he accepted that some treaty change would be required—and in fact, when he was asked questions, he accepted that towards the end—but there are a number of real problems, and I will now turn to them. The first problem that the European Commission will have to consider in its work programme is a stronger power to refuse entry and to deport criminals. The free movement directive, which the European Commission has to enforce, requires decisions to be taken on a case-by-case basis on the grounds permissible by the treaty. That provision reflects Court of Justice jurisprudence extending across a wide range of treaty rights, including the freedom to travel to other member states to receive services, which is highly relevant to the work programme. It is likely that any significant stronger action will require treaty change, particularly if it detracts from the requirement derived from the principle of proportionality to look at each individual case. Secondly, I believe a ban on re-entry for those who have abused EU rights may be possible, as this falls within the public policy exception to the treaty right of free movement. However, there are again questions of proportionality.
2015-03-09a.89.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Christopher Chope	Is this not all pie in the sky? There is no way in which the Commission or other member states will agree to these fundamental changes. Is that not why we need to go back to basics and have a free trade organisation without the free movement of people, just as we have free trade agreements with other countries without having to take in all their people as a right, without any control over them? Would it not be better to work towards, for example, visa waiver systems?
2015-03-09a.89.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	William Cash	I very much agree with what my hon. Friend says. In fact, if I may say so, I have said it many times in the past myself. However, we have to be able to identify the problems that have been presented by making assertions that we want this and we want that, in order to demonstrate the fact that it cannot be done before we move to the next step, which is of the kind that he and I would want: to address this on a realistic footing and to say to the European Commission, the European institutions and the Government that these proposals are simply not going to stack up because they are not going to happen. There is no chance of a treaty change as far as I can see—my hon. Friend and other hon. Members in the Chamber obviously agree—that will result in getting rid of the dangers presented to the United Kingdom as a result of imagining we will be able to do things, when in practice we know perfectly well it is not going to happen because we will not get the treaty change. There is also the problem of access to tax credits, housing benefits and social housing for four years. The law of the Court of Justice indicates that an attempt to do this would be contrary to the treaty rights of free movement insofar as the limits on benefit extend to benefits for jobseekers linked to labour market participation and benefits to those who are classified as workers. Such persons are entitled to equal treatment as a treaty right. There is another problem. These things are not going to go away. My hon. Friend is completely right, as I have said so often, not to allow ourselves to be induced to believe that because we say something it will happen, particularly when we are dealing with the acquis communautaire and the rules and regulations that are imposed, which we voluntarily accepted in this House under the 1972 Act. We are the only country of the 28 member states that has the right, because of our constitutional arrangements—we do not have a written constitution—to make changes and override that legislation if we so wish to do. We can do it. The question is: have we got the political will in relation to matters of vital national interest? Any restriction on access to social housing would likely be regarded as discrimination on the grounds of nationality. Thus, that too would be contrary to the treaty. There is then the question of removal if jobseekers do not find a job in six months. The law of the European Court of Justice overrides even this Parliament, by our voluntary agreement, but we can unwind it if we wish to do so by using the notwithstanding formula to override it and pass a law in this place. If jobseekers do not find a job in six months and are faced with removal, we could legislate. Under sections 2 and 3 of the European Communities Act, however, Court of Justice law prevents it, on the grounds that it interferes with the treaty right of free movement—insofar as a jobseeker can demonstrate that he or she is continuing to seek work and has a genuine chance of being engaged. Thus—again—treaty change is likely to be necessary. Then there is the requirement for a job offer before entry—the same case law points to the requirement for treaty change on that account, too. Then there is the further restriction on the entry of non-EU family members. The rights of family members to enter with someone who has rights as an EU worker are set out explicitly in the free movement directive and could in principle be adjusted by amendment to the directive, but limits to wholesale change are set by the requirements not to undermine the essence of the treaty right of free movement and to respect human rights. As I mentioned in my lead letter in yesterday’s The Sunday Telegraph , there is also the problem of human rights issues in respect of the deportation of terrorists, who can also insist on the right to family life under the present arrangements. We have to get real about this. We have to change it. So far, the Court has taken a consistently firm approach in favour of ensuring family life where these matters arise in the context of free movement, and it is likely to continue to do so—with huge implications for the number of people who can enter. Finally, there is the question of whether there should be no child benefit for non-resident children. The requirement to pay child benefit for children in another member state is currently in the social security co-ordination regulations. It is theoretically possible to amend the regulations to end these payments, but it would raise the serious question of indirect discrimination on nationality grounds—again contrary to treaty free movement rights— and the same would apply to the proposal to limit child benefit paid abroad to that paid in the child’s country of residence. I do not mean to criticise for the sake of it. I have tried to present the House with a proper examination and legal analysis of the problems, which would not have been the case had we not been able to debate the amendment, and it is now on the record that these are serious problems that cannot simply be washed away with fine words and which in most cases will require treaty change. When I wrote to the Prime Minister 10 days before his speech, I asked if he would be good enough to seek the advice of the Attorney-General and Government lawyers on the questions I raised. I trust that the House, the Minister and the Prime Minister will listen, and that we will take the steps necessary to deal with the vexed issue of immigration in a manner that overrides the treaties and the charter, as and when it is in our vital national interest to do so.
2015-03-09a.91.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-09a.91.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Lindsay Hoyle	Order. We have four Back-Bench speakers and we need to finish at 10-past 8. In addition, I am sure the Minister would like a couple of minutes.
2015-03-09a.91.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Keith Vaz	I will be as brief as possible, Mr Deputy Speaker. As ever, it is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) , who has always spoken with authority on European matters and whom I congratulate on his persistence in getting these issues debated in the House. We do not know quite how long the delay has been since the Commission decided to have its work programme—
2015-03-09a.91.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	The work programme was published on 17 December , the explanatory memorandum was laid before Parliament on 14 January , the European Scrutiny Committee referred it for debate on 28 January and we are debating it on 9 March . It is not as long a delay as there has, I am afraid, been with some others.
2015-03-09a.91.4	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Keith Vaz	I am most grateful to the Minister. It might not seem long to him, but, picking up on a point made by the shadow Minister, it is good to have these matters debated in the House as quickly as possible. If Parliament is to have any influence on the Commission, it is good to have them before us as quickly as possible.
2015-03-09a.91.5	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Jacob Rees-Mogg	I support the right hon. Gentleman’s comments entirely. The Commission work programme is the equivalent of the Queen’s Speech, and it is inconceivable that the House would wait nearly three months before debating the Gracious Speech and then allow only 90 minutes to do so.
2015-03-09a.91.6	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Keith Vaz	Indeed. As the hon. Gentleman says, there is the time issue. Several right hon. and hon. Members wish to speak—even if they are the usual suspects—and to give these issues our proper attention, we need longer than 90 minutes. I know how much you enjoy these European debates, Mr Deputy Speaker. May I again congratulate the Minister for Europe on lasting five years? To get a five-year sentence under the criminal law, one has either to have been trading in firearms or to have been guilty of violent disorder. I do not know what he did right, but he is obviously the Prime Minister’s blue-eyed boy, because he has kept him tethered to the Dispatch Box as Minister for Europe. I would love to see how many stamps he has in his passport—but it is the EU so there will be no stamps. Anyway, well done to him for surviving so many of these debates. I want to concentrate on one aspect of the five headline points in the Commission programme—migration. The hon. Member for Stone talked about legal migration and the issues confronting the British electorate—issues that we need to discuss—but I want to concentrate on illegal migration. On a recent visit to Calais, the Home Affairs Committee accepted the point made by the Mayor of Calais that once illegal migrants get there, they can see the UK and it is therefore already too late. Even the fence, like that used to surround and separate G8 leaders from the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) , though robust, has been blown down twice. It is too late, once the illegal migrants get to Calais; this issue needs to be dealt with by the EU and the Commission at the point of departure from north Africa. As my right hon. Friend the shadow Minister said, the Italians are bearing the brunt of this problem. More than 250,000 people travel cross the Mediterranean every year; 3,200 have died—those are the ones we know about; and the Mare Nostrum initiative has been stopped because Frontex simply cannot deal with the problem. It is not just Italy, though. In the past five years, the Committee has also visited the border between Greece and Turkey. We know what pressure the Greeks are under, because of their economic situation, and people are flooding into Turkey from Iraq and Syria, despite the efforts of the Turkish Government. Once they arrive in Greece, they are kept in detention for up to three to four months, before being released on the border between Greece and Turkey. They end up in Athens, but their destination of choice is the UK and western Europe. Illegal migration is the No. 1 issue facing the EU, and although it is recognised as such in the Commission’s programme, under the heading “Towards a New Policy on Migration”, actually we do not hear enough from the Commission and Ministers about this critical issue. It requires a new deal with the countries of north Africa, particularly in respect of how the Egyptians, Libyans, Algerians, and to a lesser extent the Moroccans and Tunisians, deal with the people traffickers, who take up to €10,000 each from each migrant on the boat and then leave them, sometimes without a captain, in the hope that the Italian Government will send ships to save them, which does not always happen. So although it is not necessarily on the conscience of people sitting in this House, it is certainly on the conscience of the Commission, if it has one. Dealing with illegal migration requires an EU approach; it is not just a matter for the United Kingdom. As I have said, once the migrants have reached Calais, it is far too late. I would be keen to know from the Minister today, and from his successor—unless the Minister’s party wins the election and the Prime Minister is persuaded that the right hon. Gentleman is prepared to do another five years—what is happening in the EU with illegal migration, because it is a huge problem that needs to be resolved.
2015-03-09a.93.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Pat McFadden	Before the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee finishes, will he clarify his view on burden sharing? Does he really think that if these migrants land in Italy, they stay in Italy—or is not the reality that once they get there, they will try to travel to other countries?
2015-03-09a.93.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Keith Vaz	My right hon. Friend is absolutely right, and this is not helped by the fact that the Italians, because they do not want to deal with this problem themselves, give people travel documents so that they can travel on their own to other parts of the EU. That is why we cannot simply leave it to Italy; we need to sort it out. I am not talking about burden sharing in the sense that we all say that we are going to take a similar number of people, because I am not sure that that is what the British people want. What it requires is a robust approach to a Mediterranean crisis—and it is a crisis and it does need to be resolved.
2015-03-09a.93.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	John Redwood	This debate is a disgrace. This is a massive work programme with huge implications for the British people and our own country, yet we have been given 90 minutes. I can now make only a few of the points I wanted to make because two of my colleagues rightly wish to join in. The Minister told us that he was delighted that this was a small and compressed programme of just 23 measures. These measures are huge for the jobs, growth and investment area. There are proposals that will have a direct impact on the economies of the European Union. In the section on economic and monetary union, two new taxes are proposed—a common consolidated corporation tax and a financial transactions tax. The Minister did not even mention them: I believe that they will be opposing them for the United Kingdom. One would have thought that a couple of major European taxes might have been worth a mention. Nobody has had a chance to discuss the energy union proposals, which will directly impact on the United Kingdom. It is put down as one measure, but it is a whole raft of measures. The one that is scored is a strategic framework, but the strategic framework will lead on to a massive programme of regulation and legislation. The Minister obliquely referred to the idea that we want to integrate the market. Why do we wish to integrate it? Why do we wish to integrate the United Kingdom’s rather different energy market—we are an island with access to a lot of its own energy—with the continent of Europe, which has a terrible geopolitical problem because it has made itself so dependent on Russian gas. As if that was not enough, my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) rightly said that migration and border controls—one of the leading issues in the run-up to the general election—is at the core of this work programme. That is exactly right. I found rather surprising the Minister’s remarks about our legal opportunities for benefit reform. It seems to me that most of the proposals for solving our difficulties on benefits for migrants in the United Kingdom would be illegal under the current treaty. I have been going on about this for years and have recommended to Ministers that they put our benefits on a contributory basis and that they should be paid only if people have paid in for a specified number of years and/or have been in full-time education in the United Kingdom between the ages of five and 16, so that all British people would qualify, without it being discriminatory on grounds of country. If we did that, we could make the changes we want, but Ministers do not respond. They pretend that they can make these other changes, but they have not delivered them all and I think they will discover that a lot of them are illegal. The economic programme should be much more urgent. I find it extraordinary that the Labour party can come here and show no anger or passion about the mass unemployment on the continent. If there were anything like 50% youth unemployment in Britain today or 25% general unemployment, Labour Members would be outraged and they would be here in their hundreds—not just three Members as now.
2015-03-09a.94.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Kelvin Hopkins	rose—
2015-03-09a.94.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	John Redwood	I am sorry, but I do not have time. The hon. Gentleman wants to make his own speech. Labour would be outraged, but because this is happening on the continent of Europe and is the result of the euro and economic union policies from which we have rightly opted out, they do not seem to care less. They just accept that it has to happen. I think this House should be deeply angry about the mass unemployment on the continent and deeply angry about the permanent recession that has hurt certain countries. We should be deeply angry about the shambles that is the euro, which is doing so much damage to prosperity, opportunity and life hopes. We have no time to discuss any of that because we have been given only 90 minutes.
2015-03-09a.94.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Kelvin Hopkins	I shall curtail much of what I was going to say. I had a lot to say, and I greatly agree with the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) about the crisis in the eurozone. I personally feel very angry as do many people in those countries. The so-called socialist party has disappeared in Greece to be replaced by Syriza, while Podemos is now in the lead in Spain. Working people are getting very angry about the appalling state of their economies and the impact on their people. Let me speak briefly about the amendment moved by the hon. Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) , the Chairman of the European Scrutiny Committee, of which I am pleased to be a member. I support the amendment, and I am pleased that the Minister intends to accept it, although I hope this is not going to take the place of a proper full debate on free movement and some declaration of what Government policy will be on free movement and what they are going to do about it. It matters greatly to our constituents. I spent some six hours knocking on doors in my constituency on Saturday and Sunday, and the issue that cropped up the most was immigration and free movement. We cannot run away from it. We have to reach a position. If we want to say that free movement is fine and we are not going to do anything about it, then we should say that, although I think it will bring about a degree of anger from people. I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) , the Chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee that this matter has not been taken seriously. He mentioned Frontex, which is an administrative and policy organisation; it does not have a border force. What we really need is a European border force to help out countries such as Greece—a relatively impoverished country, with a big land border with Turkey—and Italy, with its enormous sea border and islands close to the north African coast. If we are serious about the problem, those areas have to be helped by a border force that is European in scope. When we visited Frontex in Warsaw some two or three years ago, it could not say that free movement was a shibboleth that it could not talk about, but that is what it hinted at in its speech. I think we have to take these issues more seriously. As the right hon. Member for Wokingham said, unemployment in some of the euro countries is quite appalling. If we had Spanish levels of unemployment in Britain, we would have 7.5 million unemployed instead of about 1.9 million. Ireland has overcome its unemployment problem by exporting 300,000 people. That is the pro rata equivalent of 4.5 million Britons leaving. Just imagine if we had 7.5 million unemployed and 4.5 million emigrating to find work. That is the situation that faces these European countries and no one should gloss over the fact that this is all the result of forcing a single currency on these countries, which then prove unable to adjust to it. After the crisis, we in Britain devalued and depreciated sterling by 27% against the euro and by 31% against the dollar. That was a major factor in helping us to avoid some of the extreme stresses that happened elsewhere. Even in Europe, we are seeing a country such as Switzerland pegging its currency to the euro for a little while, but when the peg was taken away, the currency appreciated by 30% overnight. There are great distortions in currency values right across Europe. Denmark has pegged its currency to the euro and it is taking desperate measures to try to hold its currency down. I do not call it the euro; I call it, privately, the deutschmark because that it what it really is. Other countries are effectively pegging their currencies to the deutschmark. Desperate steps have been taken to hold it down. We are in trouble now—the Government are right that this is a problem for Britain—because the euro is depreciating pretty rapidly against sterling, which will cause serious problems for our economy, too. All these problems are caused by the foolhardiness of imposing a single currency on different economies, which should be able to flex their currencies, choose their own interest rates and create demand in their own economies so that they can give jobs to their people.
2015-03-09a.95.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Jacob Rees-Mogg	Let me begin by talking about the way in which we have arrived at this debate, and also about the amendment that has been tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) and all the other members of the European Scrutiny Committee who were present at Wednesday’s meeting. It is highly unusual for a Select Committee to table a cross-party amendment on a subject that was recommended for debate nearly 14 months ago. The Government should bear it in mind that no Government are in office for ever. They should bear it in mind that the great protection of our liberties is the House’s entitlement to debate what it wishes to debate, and that they should treat that entitlement properly and respectfully by allowing such debates to take place. They should also bear it in mind that delaying deliberately, for 14 months, a debate on the free movement of people—a subject which, as we heard from the hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) , is being discussed on every doorstep in the country—shows a contempt for the House of Commons that constitutes a grave error. When things change and another party is in government, that party too will notice that it is possible to ignore the Standing Orders of the House. That party too will notice that it is easy to clamp down on discussion in what ought to be a hotbed of democracy, and our freedoms will ebb away. The Government ought to be ashamed of themselves for their delay, and the Ministers who claimed to be so much in favour of the debate when they appeared before the European Scrutiny Committee—or on the Floor of the House during questions to the Leader of the House—ought to recognise that they are powerful figures. When the Home Secretary, the Foreign Secretary, the Minister for Europe and the First Secretary of State all want a debate, it is extraordinary that we do not get that debate. Who is the mystery figure, hidden somewhere in the corridors of Whitehall, who vetoes debates?
2015-03-09a.96.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	William Cash	Clegg.
2015-03-09a.96.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Jacob Rees-Mogg	Is it our right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr Clegg) who vetoed the debate, or is it simply some mystery in the machine? Is it some faceless bureaucrat, some poor fellow sitting patiently in the officials’ Box?
2015-03-09a.96.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Martin Horwood	rose—
2015-03-09a.96.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Jacob Rees-Mogg	Or is it my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham, who now wishes to intervene?
2015-03-09a.96.4	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Martin Horwood	It certainly is not the hon. Member for Cheltenham, or indeed, I suspect, my right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr Clegg) . The purpose of my intervention, however, is to take a rare opportunity to agree with the hon. Gentleman. I, too, think that debate on European matters in this place should not be subject to undue delay, and that European scrutiny that is scrunched into two short periods after a long delay is utterly inadequate when it comes to what the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) rightly described as a European equivalent of the Queen’s Speech. We should take a fresh look at all this in the next Parliament. Nevertheless, I should like the hon. Gentleman to substantiate any other allegations that he makes about individual Members.
2015-03-09a.96.5	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	Jacob Rees-Mogg	I am grateful for that helpful intervention. I was only speculating that the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam—my friend—was responsible. In fact, I think that that is unlikely; I think that the person in question is more deeply hidden in the machinery than such an easy target as the Deputy Prime Minister. This topic is of fundamental importance. According to press reports that have appeared over the past few days, 187,370 Romanians and Bulgarians were given national insurance numbers in 2014 alone. In other words, more than 200,000 people from Romania and Bulgaria have been given national insurance numbers during the period in which we have been waiting for this debate. That is an extraordinary state of affairs. According to a report from Oxford university, the population has risen by 565,000 in three years, and two thirds of those people are from European Union countries. In London alone, the population of EU member state nationals has risen by 161,000, from 711,000 to 872,000, during those three years. The Government shy away from debates on this subject, thinking that if they do not talk about it, the nation will not notice; but the nation has noticed. I see that the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood (Mark Reckless) is present. His entire party is making hay with the subject, because other politicians, including the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) —other major political figures—are shying away from it. They believe that if they keep quiet, no one will notice. However, this is an issue of great importance to our constituents, who are worried about the sheer number of people who are entering the country because of free movement. The Government are not setting out the groundwork for the renegotiation properly. At the December 2014 Council, they agreed to the following words, which appeared in the Council’s conclusions in relation to Switzerland: “It” —the Council— “considers that the free movement of persons is a fundamental pillar of EU policy, and that the internal market and its four freedoms are indivisible.” That seems to me to be a pretty bold statement, especially in connection with what we have heard about the Prime Minister’s speech on immigration being sent to Mrs Merkel for approval before being delivered. It seems that our policy on immigration must have the stamp of approval from Berlin, but we must be so committed to the European ideal that we view the free movement of people as unchallengeable. If we think that in regard to Switzerland, how can we renegotiate ourselves? When I raised that question with my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe earlier, he said that Switzerland had tied itself into a number of treaty arrangements, and that if it removed itself from one of them, it might find itself being removed from all of them. Surely that is exactly what we are trying to do in a renegotiation: surely we are trying to remove ourselves from some of the treaties to which we have agreed, but not from all of them. Perhaps the Government think that that is an equally disgraceful approach, but if it is sauce for the Swiss goose, surely it is sauce for the British gander. It cannot be right for the Government to take such a strong pro-European line in this regard. It shows a lack of sincerity in their approach to renegotiation—and if they renegotiate with a lack of sincerity, the British people are far more likely to vote to leave the EU, and the Government will get precisely the result that they do not want. Time is short, and you, Mr Deputy Speaker, have asked for the Minister for Europe to be given a couple of minutes in which to wind up the debate. It is illustrative of how little time we have been allowed that a debate on the equivalent of a much longer Queen’s Speech and the free movement of people has been so truncated because of the Government’s failure to deliver on their promises. However, I want to make one more comment, in support of my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) . The financial transaction tax and the uniform corporation tax base represent a fundamental effort to take sovereignty from this country in fiscal matters, and patriate it to a European state. The fact that we have been given only 90 minutes in which to debate a matter of such importance is pretty poor according to the Government’s standard.
2015-03-09a.98.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Commission Work Programme 2015	David Lidington	With the leave of the House, Mr Deputy Speaker I am grateful to all Members who have spoken. Let me begin by dealing with the point with which my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) ended his speech, and which was touched on by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) . The United Kingdom does not intend to participate in the two tax measures to which they referred, although we take an active role in discussions as those issues evolve, in order to ensure that we can resist a design which, even if such measures were taken forward by enhanced co-operation, might have an inimical impact on the interests of this country. Of course, if either measure came forward through the EU process to a decision by the Council or the Commission, it would be subject to scrutiny in the usual way, and Treasury Ministers would, I am sure, give evidence to the European Scrutiny Committee if asked to do so. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham also asked about the Juncker initiative. It involves the reallocation of €16 billion from other headings in the EU budget, and €8 billion from European Investment Bank resources. That sum of €24 billion is intended to allow for leveraging from other sources to produce the total of €315 billion that is being discussed. A number of Members, notably the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) , spoke of the challenge posed by migration across the Mediterranean from Africa. The Government are very active through, for example, the Khartoum process, which involves EU states working with countries in the Horn of Africa, through our support for the three EU common security and defence policy missions which are intended to stabilise Somalia, and through our support for a comprehensive EU approach to the Sahel region. If we bring about more stable governance and some hope of a job and an economic future for the people in those countries, there will be less opportunity for the people traffickers, because there will be less desperation among the people. That needs to be part of this process, along with co-operation on criminal justice to disrupt the people traffickers and prevent them from going about their nefarious trade. The right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) asked about bids from this country under the EFSI. The EFSI is still formally to be established. We have drawn up a provisional long list based— One and a half hours having elapsed since commencement of proceedings on the motion, the Deputy Speaker put the Question ( Standing Order No. 16(1) ), That the amendment be made. Question agreed to. Main Question, as amended, put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House takes note of European Union Document No. 5080/15 and Addenda 1 to 4, a Commission Communication: Commission Work Programme 2015–A New Start; and supports the Government’s view that the most significant initiatives are those that focus on the strategic priorities set out by the European Council in June 2014 to promote jobs, growth and investment in the EU; and urges the Government to encourage the Commission to develop policies during 2015 relating to the free movement of EU citizens.
2015-03-09a.100.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Margaret Beckett	I beg to move, That this House has considered the forthcoming nuclear non-proliferation treaty review conference. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for finding time for this debate, which follows the most recent meeting of representatives of the P5—the declared nuclear weapons states—which took place in London a couple of weeks ago. That was the continuation of a process initiated by the recent Labour Government, and this debate in turn is followed by the NPT conference itself for which, sadly, the ministerial segment will, for the second time in recent years, occur after this Parliament has been dissolved. Last Thursday marked the 45th anniversary of the entry into force of the NPT. Designed in the wake of the Cuban missile crisis, and on the basis of near universality with 189 signatories, the NPT is a global grand bargain, whereby nuclear weapon states commit themselves to disarming, non-nuclear weapon states agree to remain nuclear weapon free, and all have access to civil nuclear power. This grand bargain has served the international community well for the past 45 years by helping to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons, holding the nuclear weapons states to account, and promoting the peaceful use of nuclear energy, something which has assumed greater importance as the threat of climate change has called into question the continued use of fossil fuels. Since the treaty was signed, global stockpiles of nuclear weapons have fallen by more than two thirds and several countries have given up their nuclear weapons programmes. Unfortunately, the review conference held in 2005 failed to agree a final document, raising concerns about the future of the NPT. Perhaps in consequence, and not long after, an initiative was taken in the United States by two Republican and two Democrat elder statesmen, Henry Kissinger and George Schultz with Bill Perry and Sam Nunn, calling for greater progress from the nuclear weapons states on their disarmament commitments, which the NPT itself urges them to pursue. Following their initiative, I, as Foreign Secretary, gave a speech to the Carnegie international non-proliferation conference in 2007, outlining our Government’s disarmament agenda: our decision to further reduce our operationally available warheads to the very minimum we considered viable to maintain an independent nuclear deterrent; and our commitment to a substantial programme of work, to the practical steps which would be needed to underpin moves towards a world free of nuclear weapons, to working on transparency and confidence-building measures between nuclear weapons states, and, indeed, others, and to the technicalities of verification, particularly methods of verifying commitments on warheads. The then Defence Secretary Des Browne addressed the conference on disarmament in 2008 and proposed closer co-operation between the five official nuclear weapons states, including not just regular meetings of Government representatives of the P5, but scientific and technical collaboration and co-operation, and meetings among those scientists. Therefore, when President Obama spoke in 2009 of his ambition to work towards a world free of nuclear weapons, there was growing international political momentum for serious discussion about nuclear disarmament and non-proliferation and about strengthening the NPT. Following all these events, the four American spokesmen contacted me to press us to set up in this country a group like theirs to continue to address these issues. We set up a group called, rather infelicitously perhaps, the Top Level Group, composed of people of all major parties and none, including a number of former Chiefs of the Defence Staff. The present chair is the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) , who is in his place. More recently, however, the momentum we saw in that period has been waning. This year’s review conference could decide whether that momentum once again gathers steam or grinds to a complete halt, as unfortunately many have come to expect. Many argue that the NPT has been tested to breaking point by failure of the process to deliver disarmament by the nuclear weapons states; by North Korea’s withdrawal from the treaty and its nuclear weapons programme; by the threat of a potential Iranian nuclear capability; and by the fact that nuclear armed countries, India and Pakistan, sit outside the treaty regime, along with Israel, which refuses to acknowledge that it possesses nuclear weapons. In 2010, with that momentum for change in the political air, the last NPT review conference agreed a 64-point action plan. Unfortunately, progress on the plan has been limited at best. There was, for example, agreement to hold a conference on a WMD-free zone in the middle east to be held in 2012, a zone which has been long sought and is widely agreed to be desirable. Indeed, the Finnish diplomat Jaakko Laajava was appointed to promote and facilitate such a gathering and has made strenuous efforts to do so over these intervening years. Nevertheless, that conference has not taken place and looks unlikely to occur in the near future. Several other key initiatives identified in the action plan also remain stalled, including substantive dialogue between the P5 states. The recent London meeting has resulted in a glossary of agreed terms, but this joint P5 process has been limited in terms of further substantive disarmament efforts. In particular, and sadly, there has been no progress on ratifying the comprehensive test ban treaty or the fissile material cut-off treaty. In spite of this, there have been some positive developments since 2010. The US and Russia signed and ratified the new START treaty, limiting the numbers of deployed strategic nuclear arsenals of the two largest nuclear powers, and despite current tensions this treaty still remains in force. The UK has further reduced the numbers of warheads deployed on its submarines; three nuclear security summits, instigated by President Obama, have now taken place; and a new initiative on the humanitarian impact of nuclear weapons use has seen growing interest and participation from states and civil society.
2015-03-09a.101.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Angus Robertson	The right hon. Lady is making a powerful speech. Will she say a little more about the series of international conferences on the humanitarian consequences of the use of nuclear weapons? There have now been three, and record numbers of states have taken part. Does she agree that we should welcome the participation of the UK, even although it only followed a decision by the United States to attend? Does she also agree that every future conference should, as a matter of course, be attended by the UK?
2015-03-09a.102.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Margaret Beckett	It is not for me to bind future Governments, much as I would like to do so, but of course I welcome the initiatives and discussions on the humanitarian impact. To be frank, I am not sure that we need to say a great deal, because the potential humanitarian impact of a nuclear weapons exchange is clear to all. I would say to the hon. Gentleman, however, that we did push the United Kingdom Government to participate in the previous humanitarian conference. I hope that I am not breaching any confidences in saying that it was a matter of concern for us in the Top Level Group that when we in the Government promoted the notion of the P5 working together more closely on these issues, the last thing we wanted was for that to result in a lowest-common-denominator approach whereby if some of the P5 did not wish to attend, none of them would do so. We were therefore very pleased indeed when our own Government decided to attend the humanitarian conference. The hon. Gentleman is probably chronologically correct to say that that followed the decision by the United States to do so, but I think he is being a little unfair to the present Government—perhaps uncharacteristically at this stage of the Parliament—by implying that that was the only reason that they decided to go. We had been pushing for them to do so, and we had been conscious that they were not reluctant to attend. We are very glad that the partnership of the UK and the US attended. That was the first time that any of the P5 countries had participated in the humanitarian initiative, and along the trajectory of the events now taking place the negotiators are continuing to work hard to secure a deal with Iran on its nuclear programme. There have thus been a few positive developments, but it is clear that more needs to be done. Concerns have been raised at every review conference of the NPT, and they continue to be raised, about the failure to implement many of the commitments agreed—and those agreements were often hard-fought. It is critical that we reiterate and reinforce the importance of the treaty to the international community and the global nuclear regime. Many take the opportunity of the review conferences to question the viability and role of the treaty and the effectiveness of the UN disarmament machinery. I can perhaps understand some of those concerns. The humanitarian impacts initiative has been seen by some as a means to circumvent the slow progress by the nuclear weapon states on their NPT disarmament obligations. There is a danger that the NPT bargain will begin to fracture unless all members, nuclear and non-nuclear, work in good faith to implement the provisions of the treaty. The nuclear risks that we face today are growing, not falling, and it is vital—as the American Secretary of State, John Kerry, said a few days ago—that we work to strengthen the NPT, not to undermine it. We need urgent progress in several areas. The US, China, Israel, Pakistan, India, North Korea and other countries that have not yet ratified the comprehensive test ban treaty should do so as soon as possible, allowing it to come into force. The long stalemate in the Geneva disarmament conference on a fissile material cut-off treaty must be overcome to allow for a prohibition of the production of the basic materials required to manufacture nuclear explosive devices. Global leaders also need to stay focused on nuclear materials security: locking down the materials that can be used to build a bomb should be among the highest priorities of Governments, and officials must work to build an effective global system to track, protect and manage them. I fear that, unless we face up to our responsibilities and seek collectively to address these challenges, we are likely to face an even more dangerous and unstable nuclear future.
2015-03-09a.103.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	John Stanley	This is a necessary and timely debate, and I should like to congratulate the right hon. Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) on securing it. Like many others on both sides of the House, I had until recently been moderately optimistic that we were winning the battle against nuclear proliferation. We had seen South Africa, and Libya under Gaddafi, coming out of the nuclear weapons business. We had also seen a substantial swathe of the former Soviet Union countries—now supposedly, and hopefully, independent sovereign states—no longer having nuclear weapons stationed on their soil. More recently, however, I have become concerned that the battle that we were winning appears to be in danger of going into reverse. On the Korean peninsula, the North Korean regime under Kim Jong-un seems determined to try to acquire a nuclear weapons capability. If that happens, I fear that it will call into question the nuclear weapons possession policy of, say, the Japanese Government. In south Asia, we have the wholly unresolved question of the nuclear weapons situation between India and Pakistan. In the middle east, whatever the outcome of the current negotiations on Iran, I believe that the Iranians will try to maintain a break-out capability. I understand from recent conversations with Ministers in Saudi Arabia that if Iran does break out and obtain a nuclear weapon, we cannot rule out the subsequent possession of a nuclear weapon by Saudi Arabia. This debate is therefore necessary and important. We should not forget, when it comes to weapons of mass destruction, that we still have a chemical weapons convention that is not being adhered to or acceded to by key countries, including Egypt, Israel and North Korea. We also have a convention on biological and toxin weapons that remains without a verification regime, which leaves that convention resting on paper and on trust. I was grateful to the Minister for sending me, in my capacity as Chair of the Committees on Arms Export Controls, a copy of the Government’s national report to the 2015 nuclear non-proliferation treaty review conference. I have to say that I found the report strong on the pluses, but rather limited on the more negative aspects of nuclear proliferation—some key issues and problems were skated over and others were not referred to at all. I should like to pick out some key issues from the Government’s report. As the right hon. Lady has said, the comprehensive test ban treaty is of key importance; as we all know, it is not possible to have a truly effective nuclear weapon unless it has been subject to testing. I agree entirely with what the Government say in their report: “The UK recognises the CTBT as a key element of the global disarmament and non-proliferation architecture”. That is absolutely correct, and it is a matter of immense frustration to all of us that we still have eight remaining countries whose ratification of the CTBT is necessary in order to bring the treaty into force: China, Egypt, India, Iran, Israel, North Korea, Pakistan and the USA. I hope the Government will take the opportunity of the review conference to try to mobilise the maximum possible international pressure on those countries to secure their accession to the all-important CTBT. The Government devote two paragraphs in their report to the planned—I stress that it is still no more than planned—fissile material cut-off treaty. I find those paragraphs most disappointing. The Government do not even skate over the real problem; they omit any mention of it, which is deeply regrettable. We all know why negotiations on the FMCT have not even commenced —why they have been stalled for years in the Conference on Disarmament in Geneva. It is simply because neither India nor Pakistan can reach agreement on what should be the treatment of their existing fissile material stocks. Those two countries and their disagreement have put into baulk the start of any negotiation on the FMCT. That is coupled with the fact that the Conference on Disarmament works on the basis of “consensus”, which everybody chooses to interpret as unanimity only. I simply do not understand why the Government fail to indentify that in their report as the key stumbling block. The Minister will doubtless say in his reply, “There’s no need to worry, because the FMCT Group of Governmental Experts is going to resolve the deadlock.” I believe that is considerably optimistic and it may prove to be purely wishful thinking. In the Committees on Arms Export Controls, we have recommended to the Government that they should set a deadline for negotiations to start. In the absence of a deadline, there seems to be a compelling case for starting the negotiations in another forum, perhaps in a specially constituted commission, possibly within the United Nations. It is imperative that the negotiation of this treaty begins and is not subject to permanent delay as a result of the obstruction created by just two nations. Given the key importance of missile technology control in preventing nuclear proliferation, I was disappointed that the Government make no mention of the Missile Technology Control Regime in their report. There are key holders of nuclear weapons that remain outside the MTCR, including China, India, Israel and Pakistan. Will the Minister tell the House whether or not the Government are actively seeking those countries’ membership of the MTCR? That information would be of great use to the House. Another key nuclear non-proliferation organisation, which I am glad to say is referred to in the Government’s report, is the Nuclear Suppliers Group, of which, again, some key nuclear weapons holders are not yet members. I am referring to India, Israel and Pakistan. Will the Minister tell the House whether it is the Government’s policy to try to seek the membership of those countries to the Nuclear Suppliers Group? On the hoped-for middle east weapons of mass destruction free zone, the Government’s report makes all the right noises. It says: “We look forward to convening an inclusive conference on the establishment of a Middle East zone free of nuclear weapons and all other weapons of mass destruction…as soon as the practical arrangements for that conference are agreed by the states of the region.” The key issue here, and the catch in the Government’s wording, is that the conference will not take place until the practical arrangements for it are agreed by the states of the region. The point here of course is that Israel and Iran will not and have not managed to reach agreement over the terms of their participation in such a conference. On that I certainly agree with the Government that without the participation of Iran and of Israel, there would be little purpose in having such a conference. Finally, I am pleased that the little known but increasingly important additional non-proliferation scheme, the UK’s academic technology approval scheme, at least gets one paragraph in the Government’s report. The scheme, rightly brought in by the previous Government and continued by the present Government, enables us to debar students from UK universities if they are considered to pose the greatest risk by access to subjects that could lead to the proliferation of knowledge about weapons of mass destruction. When the scheme was introduced by the previous Government, it was limited solely to debarring students from abroad coming to study at UK universities. Even when it was brought in, that decision was possibly somewhat questionable. But today, I suggest that the limitation of the scheme solely to those from abroad is really wholly non-sustainable in security terms. We have a threat level in the UK that is almost unprecedented. We know that we have hundreds of young people, who, most regrettably, have chosen to go to fight for Islamic State terrorists in Syria and Iraq, and it has been widely reported that substantial numbers of those have now returned to the UK. The Committees on Arms Export Controls have, in successive reports, advocated that the Government extend the academic technology approval scheme to cover those who are in the UK, and not just merely students from abroad. Inexplicably, the Government have so far refused to accept the Committees’ recommendation, and I urge the Government in strong terms to do so given the current threat that we now face. In conclusion, I wish the Government well in trying to achieve a substantive and effective outcome of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty review conference. They most certainly need to do so, as we are living in an increasingly dangerous world.
2015-03-09a.105.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-09a.105.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Lindsay Hoyle	Order. I have four people who have indicated that they wish to speak. If we go up to 13 minutes but no more, we will get everyone in on the same time.
2015-03-09a.105.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Jeremy Corbyn	I am pleased we are having this debate and congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) on her initiative in applying for it through the Backbench Business Committee. I hope that it sets a precedent so that whenever a major treaty discussion is coming up the Government take part in a serious debate in the Chamber to set out their stall ahead of the conference and allow Members of the House to put their points of view. To follow what was said by the right hon. Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Sir John Stanley) , who spoke powerfully and effectively, let me say that there are massive dangers facing the world with nuclear weapons. There are dangers of proliferation, so we have a huge responsibility in the forthcoming NPT review conference to decide what we will do about it and what role we will take in the conference. I have attended previous NPT review conferences and some of the preparatory committees, or PrepComs, which happen every year. There is a five-year review and an annual PrepCom. I remind the House that the initiative in setting up the nuclear non-proliferation treaty system came in part from a previous Labour Government led by Harold Wilson in an era when there was hope that the declared nuclear weapons states could, by their own actions and the actions of others, bring about overall disarmament in this world. Although there are many cynics around, the NPT system has worked quite well. It has two important pillars. Let me take the second first, which is that the signatories to it that are not in possession of nuclear weapons must undertake not to develop them, use them or seek to have them in any way. By and large, that has been successful. Indeed, some former nuclear states, such as South Africa, have disavowed nuclear weapons and made themselves into non-nuclear states. Crucially, the five permanent members of the NPT, which are the same as the five permanent members of the Security Council, must do the following under article VI: “Each of the Parties to the Treaty undertakes to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.” Britain is committed to those words of the treaty and in the run-up to the review conference should therefore consider two points. The first is the good work that has been done by so many states to divest themselves of nuclear weapons and bring about nuclear weapon-free zones, such as in Africa and Latin America. Central Asia has achieved a great deal and should be congratulated on that. The second is the role we seek to play in that and how we bring about further nuclear disarmament around the world. The right hon. Member for Tonbridge and Malling was right to point out that previous review conferences, led by the late Robin Cook, by my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby South and by others, consistently made a strong case for a weapons of mass destruction-free zone conference to be held for the middle east. It is crucial that that conference takes place. I have attended previous review conferences and PrepComs in which the inability of the secretariat to convene such a conference—the Finnish Government have been tasked with that—has led to threats and walk-outs from the review conference, although not from the treaty system, because people are concerned that that conference has not taken place. At the last review conference and the last PrepCom every single nation attending, including Iran—Israel is not a signatory to the NPT—agreed that the conference should take place and once again the Government of Finland and others were tasked with ensuring that that happened. So far, it has not. If that conference does not take place and there is not some progress on general disarmament across the middle east, the consequences, as explained by the right hon. Member for Tonbridge and Malling, are obvious. Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and many other countries have the resources, whether they want these weapons or not. What about Egypt? We can think of many examples of very wealthy countries in the region that could either buy the nuclear technology or develop it in concert. If there is not a general agreement on disarmament across the region that includes Israel and Iran, we will see the start of a nuclear arms race with incalculable dangers to the rest of the world. I hope that when the Minister winds up he will say that the talks that have taken place with Iran and the Government’s close relationship with Israel will put a great deal of pressure on this year’s review conference to set the date when the middle east conference can take place so that we can begin that process. I do not underestimate the difficulties, but if it does not take place, the dangers will be huge. One should not run away with the idea that everyone in Israel or Iran wants nuclear weapons, or wants to use them, or believes that their security comes from nuclear weapons. There are substantial bodies of opinion in both countries that there is a different way forward in the region. A parliamentary delegation from Iran are visiting the House this week; I met them earlier this evening. They are very welcome. We will have a discussion with them on Wednesday morning. I hope that talks with them will focus on the nuclear issue—I am sure that they will—and human rights in Iran; that ought to be part of the dialogue. We should have that dialogue with all countries. The dangers are so obvious. I hope that in his speech the Minister will outline the view that the UK Government will take in New York. Now that we are apparently into fixed-term Parliaments, every time there is a non-proliferation treaty review it will coincide with the British general election. That is more than unfortunate, because clearly it means that Ministers cannot attend at least the early part of the conference. If there is a change of Government—most of us hope that there will be—only some time on will the new Minister, or newly appointed Minister, be able to attend. The coincidence in the dates is very unfortunate indeed. The humanitarian effects of nuclear weapons have been referred to. Three conferences were held on this: one by the Norwegian Government in Oslo, a second in Mexico, and the third, more recently, in Vienna, hosted by the Austrian Government. I attended the conference in Vienna, along with my right hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Dame Joan Ruddock) and the hon. Member for Moray (Angus Robertson) , who is speaking for the Scottish National party tonight. We took part in a very interesting round-table discussion for parliamentarians on the humanitarian effects of nuclear weapons. If anyone is ever in any doubt about the need to move on from a dry, strategic debate—from “Nuclear this, nuclear that” and “Threat here, threat there”—I ask them to read the documents that were presented to the conference, and to think of the videos that we saw, about what the effect would be of one nuclear explosion anywhere in the world. There is the effect on the local climate and local economy, and the death of very large numbers of the population living anywhere near the explosion. There are also the catastrophic effects of multiple explosions, including a nuclear winter that would damage the climate and life chances of the entire planet. We are dealing with not battlefield bombs, but weapons of total destruction; that is what a nuclear weapon is for. The Austrian Government were very serious about the conference, organised it extremely well, and gave a great deal of time and space to scientists and others to speak, and then to Governments to speak on the second day. I was delighted when the British Government announced that they would attend, along with the US Government. I wish that China, France and Russia had also been there. I suspect that they were there in observer capacity, at least; there was certainly a very large number of people observing that conference. I was quite disappointed by the British Government’s statement at the conference. I ask colleagues to think for a moment of the atmosphere when the South African representative outlined why South Africa gave up its nuclear weapons, and how the continent of Africa became a nuclear weapon-free zone, and to think of the moral strength that gave South Africa at the conference. That was followed by the British saying that we needed to keep nuclear weapons for our own security. If we need to keep weapons for our own security, we have to be very clear where the threat is coming from and what security the weapons bring us, given that they increase the danger of nuclear proliferation around the world. Before I conclude, I will quote a very small part of the interesting Austrian pledge made at the conclusion of the conference: “Austria calls on all states parties to the NPT to renew their commitment to the urgent and full implementation of existing obligations under Article VI, and to this end, to identify and pursue effective measures to fill the legal gap for the prohibition and elimination of nuclear weapons and Austria pledges to cooperate with all stakeholders to achieve this goal”. The pledge goes on to say that Austria “calls on all nuclear weapons possessor states to take concrete interim measures to reduce the risk of nuclear weapon detonations, including reducing the operational status of nuclear weapons and moving nuclear weapons away from deployment into storage, diminishing the role of nuclear weapons in military doctrines and rapid reductions of all types of nuclear weapons”. Thank you, Austria. Well done for that.
2015-03-09a.108.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Angus Robertson	I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his contribution and for stating the position of the Austrian Government and so many of the other countries that took part in the conference. Given where the UK’s nuclear deterrent is in relation to its lifespan, is it not possible for the UK to embrace the opportunity to follow the courageous moral lead of South Africa and say, “Rather than wasting £100 billion on a new generation of Trident submarines, why not play a positive role in the world towards disarmament by scrapping the Trident programme?”
2015-03-09a.109.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Jeremy Corbyn	I agree that this would be an opportunity for us to say, “We have looked at the dangers of nuclear proliferation. We recognise our obligations under article VI and we are going to fulfil them this time.” If we go ahead with spending £100 billion, plus whatever the design and redesign costs are, we commit ourselves to a massive expenditure, and to flying in the face of the spirit and moral purpose of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. I do not suggest cutting the expenditure in order to throw large numbers of people out of work in this country. What I say is, “Cut the expenditure to invest in high quality engineering. Use those skills—they are brilliant skills—to make other things that do not destroy the world, but instead help to build the world, and we pledge ourselves in the direction of a nuclear-free future.” I believe these things are possible and we have a particular obligation to bring that about. If the five permanent members refuse to move in the direction that they ought to, who are we to criticise India and Pakistan for not reaching an agreement? Who are we to criticise any other state that wants to develop nuclear weapons? If we want a nuclear weapons-free world, it is possible. We have a responsibility to play a role in that. I hope that when the Minister speaks, he will tell me that he and I will meet in New York. I will be there as an NGO representative. I do not expect to be a representative of any Government after the election. There is relief on the Front Bench. However, I will certainly be in New York because I want to see real progress on nuclear disarmament. It is possible if people have the courage to do it.
2015-03-09a.109.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-09a.109.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Lindsay Hoyle	Order. I suggest that speakers limit themselves to nine minutes now. We have an extra speaker.
2015-03-09a.109.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Julian Lewis	I will do my best, Mr Deputy Speaker. I always like to start on a point of agreement with the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) where I can, and I can certainly agree with him that whenever there is a major conference of this sort coming up, it is only fit and proper that it should be debated in advance on the Floor of the House of Commons. Therefore, he can always count on me to assist him from my very different point on the disarmament versus deterrence spectrum, and the right hon. Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) can count on me to assist her, as I did on this occasion, to obtain the debate. I shall always approach the Backbench Business Committee for these debates, just as the hon. Gentleman has always assisted me when I wanted to have a debate about the importance of Britain’s strategic minimum nuclear deterrent. That, I am afraid, is as far as the points of agreement go. In the brief time available I will take up a number of the differing suggestions and arguments that we have heard so far. “Who are we to criticise this, that or the other country for obtaining nuclear weapons if we persist in renewing ours?” I’ve got news for people who use that sort of argument: countries that are on the verge of obtaining nuclear weapons are not going to take a blind bit of notice of exhortations or criticisms from the likes of us. When countries acquire nuclear weapons, it is the result of a hard-headed reading of their own strategic interests. They do not do it by reference to whether a peaceful democracy that has a minimum nuclear deterrent, as we do, decides to keep hold of it.
2015-03-09a.110.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Bob Stewart	What seriously worries me is the fact that Russia has declared that we are an enemy and also suggested that, if necessary, it will use nuclear weapons to pursue the problems it faces abroad. That worries all of us.
2015-03-09a.110.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Julian Lewis	It certainly does, and to show the ecumenical nature of that concern, let me quote from a recent article in The Herald of Glasgow by a former Labour Defence Secretary, later the Secretary-General of NATO, Lord Robertson: “Those people seduced by the SNP’s obsession with abolishing Britain’s nuclear deterrent should perhaps Google the Budapest Memorandum of December 1994. They would see there a document representing the deal struck when Ukraine, holding the world’s third largest nuclear weapons stockpile, agreed to give them up in return for solemn security assurances from Russia, the US and the UK. These countries, with France and China as well, promised to a) respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in its existing borders, b) to refrain from the threat or the use of force against Ukraine, and c) to refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics. Don’t these promises look good in the light of the carnage we see on our TVs every night? Yet that is what Ukraine got in return for unilaterally disarming. Some bargain. And it is legitimate to ask this; would Crimea have been grabbed and Eastern Ukraine occupied if the Ukrainians had kept some of their nukes?”
2015-03-09a.110.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	John Spellar	The hon. Gentleman rightly draws attention to the Budapest memorandum, for which the United Kingdom has a degree of responsibility. Does he not therefore find it extraordinary that the British Government are hardly involved in the talks on the future of Ukraine?
2015-03-09a.110.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Julian Lewis	I am not sure that we want to start discussing the foreign policy dimension of this now. The only reason I brought Ukraine into this particular debate was in order to focus on the impact on its future of its one-sided disarmament in return for unreliable and undeliverable guarantees from other countries. There are two ways of looking at the state of defence, armaments, security and peace in the world. The way to which I subscribe was summarised by an inter-war chairman of the League of Nations disarmament commission, Salvador de Madariaga. He was writing about disarmament, which was very much in vogue in the early 1970s. This is what he wrote in 1973: “The trouble with disarmament was (and still is) that the problem of war is tackled upside-down and at the wrong end… Nations don’t distrust each other because they are armed; they are armed because they distrust each other. And therefore to want disarmament before a minimum of common agreement on fundamentals is as absurd as to want people to go undressed in winter.” I must point out that the hon. Member for Islington North, being typically objective about the matter, quoted article 6 of the non-proliferation treaty in full. That is very important, because often it is quoted only in part. I wish to focus my remaining couple of minutes on article 6. It states: “Each of the Parties to the Treaty undertakes to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date”. In so far as that affects Britain, it can be seen that we do not engage, and never have engaged, in a nuclear arms race. We have a policy of possessing a minimum strategic nuclear deterrent. Indeed, over the years, successive Governments—both Labour and Conservative—have reduced the number of warheads in that deterrent. And what direct response has there been to each and every one of those unilateral reductions? A big, fat zero. The ending of the nuclear arms race certainly applies to Russia and the United States, but it does not apply to China, Britain or France, because none of us has ever engaged in it. Article 6 goes on with a commitment to “nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.” That leads me to my final substantive point. There has been a lack of emphasis on the overall picture of what is recommended by article 6. It recommends not only a nuclear-free world, but a conventional arms-free world, so that we do not end up in a situation whereby countries get rid of all of their nuclear weapons and leave conventional arms bristling in the hands of the protagonists. We do not want to create a situation where, unless we are crazy, we abolish one type of deadly weapons system—whose use lies not in the firing of it, but in the possession of it so that nobody starts firing any such weapons—and replace it with a world that is riven by all the old rivalries that bubble away beneath the surface and that would rise to the surface once again if the threat of the balance of terror is removed. When we get to that happy state—when we have a world Government and the lion lies down with the lamb—we can be absolutely confident that the moment has come to get rid of those nuclear weapons and, while we are at it, get rid of the navies, the armies, and the air forces as well. Some might say, “That’s nonsense. We don’t want to get rid of those conventional forces, because aggressors would take advantage of that against victim countries.” However, if that is what we think those aggressors would do if we get rid of all our conventional arms, we should ask ourselves what they would do if, without resolving those tensions and rivalries, we get rid of the nuclear stalemate and open up the world once again for conventional slaughter on a massive scale.
2015-03-09a.111.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	John Woodcock	It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) . Indeed, I have followed him far more often during my five years in Parliament than I ever envisaged I would when I first entered the House. I have also found myself in agreement with him far more than I had expected. May I implore him, however, not to use again the analogy of going around undressed in winter? That would make for a happier experience for everyone in the Chamber. I want my party and my country to lead the way on non-proliferation. I am deeply proud to be sitting next to my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) , who as Foreign Secretary made Britain the very first country in possession of nuclear weapons to sign up to the ambition of global zero. That was a hugely important moment. The question is not whether but how to advance the cause of non-proliferation and disarmament. Had I known that I would be following the hon. Member for New Forest East, I would have calibrated my arguments, because I want to make exactly the point that he has made. Under the previous Government, as the hon. Gentleman has said, the United Kingdom did many laudable things on non-proliferation, including, unlike any other member country of the P5, the reduction to a single platform. That is often not taken into account in the debate about submarine renewal: every other nation has other platforms, but we have gone down to a single platform, hugely reduced our stockpiles and de-targeted our weapons system. But what progress has there been? It is very hard or impossible to show how that has advanced the cause of non-proliferation, despite our good intentions in doing it. To those who think that further unilateral gestures could kick-start some new move towards a nuclear-free world, I would say that that is just a fundamental misconception of what motivates states to acquire nuclear weapons. They do so not because they fear that America or the United Kingdom will launch a nuclear strike against them, but either to protect themselves from their nearer neighbours or to be able to threaten them. If we are to accept the idea that a unilateral gesture could bring further progress, we must be able to answer this question: if the United Kingdom and America decided tomorrow to give up their nuclear weapons, would the world be more safe or less safe, and would we be less likely to have a nuclear catastrophe? It is unquestionably the case that instances of nuclear blackmail or threats of a nuclear catastrophe that destroys the world would be very significantly more likely if America and the United Kingdom were simply to get rid of their weapons without securing disarmament by other nations, particularly Russia. That is why my party will never return to the days of the unilateralism of the 1980s. We will never accede to the demands of the Scottish National party and disarmers in other parties. It is a shame that the hon. Member for Moray (Angus Robertson) has vacated the Chamber after making his fatuous and wrong point about nuclear weapons. We will not do so, because it would be irresponsible and would set back, not advance, the cause of non-proliferation. Although some people would try to argue otherwise, there is no conflict between my spending most of the day in Barrow shipyard with my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) , a shadow Defence Minister, looking at the programme for renewing our deterrent submarines, and my standing here to advocate the best course to advance non-proliferation. If we decided not to proceed with renewal, that would be precisely such a grand unilateral gesture. It would be deferred, perhaps by two decades, but it would mean that the United Kingdom abrogated its responsibility to its own citizens and those in allied countries under the UK’s nuclear umbrella in Europe.
2015-03-09a.113.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Adam Afriyie	The hon. Gentleman is making a very solid case about our participation in the treaty. Outside the general agreement across the House on maintaining our nuclear deterrent, could we not make good headway on fissile materials, the transfer of academic technology and the Nuclear Suppliers Group?
2015-03-09a.113.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	John Woodcock	Yes, exactly. The hon. Gentleman makes very well the point on which I shall finish in a moment. Such a gesture would not only abrogate our responsibility to our NATO allies, but would harm, not help, the push for disarmament by giving away the prospect of the UK being part of a future binding multilateral deal that reduced the nuclear stockpiles and nuclear capability of other nations. We must be honest and realistic about the environment in which the treaty will be discussed, and understand that without the renewal of constructive engagement with Russia there is no prospect of the great breakthrough that we ultimately need. It is essential to pursue all the measures that have been mentioned by Government Members and my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby South, both because they are important in and of themselves, and because they send the clear signal that we will never deprioritise the need for nuclear disarmament. Any future Labour Government will remain committed to the goal of global zero. We will do the right and responsible thing while the world remains unstable and while potential adversaries, such as Russia, are greatly increasing their nuclear capabilities, rather than engaging in meaningful discussions on scaling them back. We will push for change and for the binding multilateral deal that is the only way we will achieve our ultimate goal of global zero.
2015-03-09a.113.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Alistair Burt	I add my thanks to the right hon. Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) for securing the debate and the Backbench Business Committee for allowing it. I agree with all colleagues who have spoken about the need for and importance of this debate. I am grateful to the right hon. Member for Derby South for referring to my role in convening the Top Level Group of UK parliamentarians for multilateral nuclear disarmament and non-proliferation. I commend the work of the European Leadership Network with which we are associated and that of its director, Ian Kearns, who has produced a very good briefing for us, which contains conclusions and a letter of statement about the steps that are needed to make the 2015 review conference successful. I commend that briefing to the Minister and to the House. I may return to it if there is time later, but I doubt there will be. I was in the happy position of being the Minister responsible for this issue at the time of the 2010 NPT conference. I had the experience that was described by the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) , of arriving as a new Minister and after just two weeks having to address the Security Council and take part in negotiations. I do not say that I negotiated, because I did not, but I did take part in the negotiations that were going on in the conference. May I put on the record my thanks to all those who are involved in the NPT and the arms control team in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office? I thank Ambassador John Duncan, who was there in my time, Jo Adamson who succeeded him and Mark Lyall Grant. The work that is done by our mission at the United Nations in New York and by our team in Geneva is first rate. Being at such negotiations gives one a sense that this whole business is not about grand gestures but about hard graft. Romantic though I am, and although on occasion I lean in the direction that the hon. Member for Islington North espouses on a number of different causes, my romantic nature comes to an end in dealing with this business, and I am much more on the realistic side set out by my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) . My experience not just of the NPT but of the arms control treaty is that success is gained through hard graft and much detailed work. A lot of that work is unsung and is done behind the scenes. It is negotiated by people who appreciate each other’s positions. The grand gesture is left to those outside. The detailed work that maintains our security is more likely to be done by those who share the same interests and some of the same fears. The role of non-governmental organisations and others in the conference is genuinely important. Often, their ideas are not quite as fanciful as their rhetoric makes out. They are pretty hard-headed and know what can and what cannot be achieved. They are a necessary part of the process because they nudge us along. At the end of the day, reality kicks in and they are usually sensible enough to know what can and what cannot be achieved. I pay tribute to them. I met a number of them in New York and subsequently. They play a valuable role. The moment we leave our senses at the front door and opt for the grand gesture, we are to some extent at risk. There are places in politics where one can take a risk and if it does not work, so what? There are other places where taking a risk means putting oneself and others in peril. My sense of those negotiations and my hope for the next stage is that we remember that but keep going. I have three observations on the treaty. First, on more than one occasion I have described the WMD-free zone in the middle east as the most optimistically titled endeavour I have ever come across, but it is really important. As the Minister knows, it was one of the keys to getting that 2010 agreement where a number of middle eastern countries—not least Egypt—were keen for progress to be made. I have always shared the aspirations of those who believe that it is worth keeping going in this endeavour. If it happens, it will be a symbol of confidence in the region and add to it, but that will not happen unless the confidence is there. The work done by my friend Jaakko Laajava has been intense, and I know that he has every support from the United Kingdom. That the initiative has not happened is not a dodge; it is because the necessary confidence must be slowly and carefully built up. As we see in negotiations with Iran, and in Israel’s concerns about its security, that will not happen unless painstaking work goes on, but it is important not to lose sight of the importance of this endeavour and to press ahead with it. Secondly, the right hon. Member for Derby South referred to the NPT as a “grand bargain”, which it is, and there are rights all round. Part of that decision in 2010 was to reaffirm the inalienable rights of all parties to the NPT to the peaceful use of nuclear energy. That applies as much to Iran as to anybody else. The current process to convince Iran—as well as the need for others to abide by the treaties if Iran is to abide by its part—is equally important. That is why I believe that the work being done on that deal at the moment, which will involve recognition of Iran’s right to civil nuclear power, will be an important part of what is being done. Thirdly, let me mention the humanitarian aspect. I slightly regret the fact that when I was in office I did not sign up to the humanitarian conference that took place in Mexico. I was very undecided, and in the end I was persuaded by the argument that it was some back-door attempt to get a convention and that we would lose what the NPT was about. I am not so sure that that is really the case, and I am pleased that the Minister agreed to this year’s conference. Just a few months ago someone from one of the non-governmental organisations said something that I agreed with about why such a conference is important, which was that my generation grew up with the idea of what nuclear war could be. I am young enough to remember some of the old films, and the CND debates and cruise missiles and all that they meant in ending the cold war, and everything we achieved. I remember the awful films that the hon. Member for Islington North referred to, the destruction we saw in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the terrible warnings, but a generation is growing up now that has no knowledge of that whatsoever. It is history; it is not what it was for us, which was the threat that when we went to bed we did not know what might happen the next day. To remind the world of what could happen seems not fanciful but important, not so that people leap in the air and say, “We must have none of these things”, but to make us realise why we must continue this progress and get somewhere with what the NPT grand bargain means and that that involves multilateral nuclear disarmament. I commend those who work on those different aspects to remind us of that. In conclusion, at the end of the day this will not be a matter of legalese and what is in a treaty. It is a matter not of law but of will, and the world has not yet demonstrated the will for this, although the patient hard work is designed to get there. It is not about the detail but about the trust that will lead to the final stages of what work on the treaty has been about. It is not about the substance of negotiations but what is going on off-conference. It is about Ukraine, Iraq and Iran; it is about Israel, India, Pakistan and North Korea. It is about all those things that are happening off-side, because that plays into the confidence that is needed. I therefore very much agree with the conclusion of an article in The Economist last week: “But for now the best that can be achieved is to search for ways to restore effective deterrence, bear down on proliferation and get back to the dogged grind of arms-control negotiations between the main nuclear powers.” When it comes down to dogged determination to get the best deal, I know that the Minister is supported by the best team in the world who will do their best to ensure that we and all others succeed in the eventual aim of this grand bargain.
2015-03-09a.115.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Paul Flynn	I believe that this debate is about to take a turn that we have not seen in recent years. It has been very difficult to discuss Trident in this Parliament. Although I hope and will do all I can to make sure that colleagues in my party in Scotland are re-elected, the message I see day after day is that we are likely to have a group of people here who have put the ending of Trident at the top of their agenda. That will be a very significant change in this place. The suggested alternative of a grand coalition, if it went ahead, would not include many Labour Members. The cost of Trident is £100 billion over its lifetime. Last week, a £5 billion increase in the cost of the clean-up in Sellafield was announced. On the same day, the news that we had sold our share of Eurostar was given headline treatment. It was sold for a seventh of the increase in the cost of the clean-up of Sellafield. The cost of clearing up the waste from Sellafield, mostly from the weapons we have created, will eventually cost more than £100 billion. These are vast costs. If we have in the new Parliament a phalanx of Members who put a very high priority on the elimination of Trident, we will have a public debate. I believe that that public debate will have a very significant effect.
2015-03-09a.116.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	John Spellar	Yet again, my hon. Friend repeats the £100 billion figure. Would he mind telling us how much a year that actually represents?
2015-03-09a.116.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Paul Flynn	Taken over the period, I have given the accepted figure. I am not going into the details. I know the arguments, but the figure is realistic. The costs are enormous, but for the waste it is even greater. Forget about the cost of Trident, just concentrate on the cost of the clean-up that is going on at the moment. The clean-up of Sellafield has just been nationalised by the Government. The Labour Government actually privatised it some seven years ago. It is a pleasure to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) , who I heard on “Desert Island Discs” say that her greatest regret in a very distinguished parliamentary career—I had the great honour of being part of her team with Robin Cook in the late ’80s on the different subject of social security—was that progress has not been made on nuclear disarmament. I think there is a mistaken impression that there are those who believe in getting rid of all weapons overnight. That has never been the aim of the anti-nuclear movement. The aim has been to progress towards countries reducing their stockpiles and reducing the risks, until eventually there are probably just two nations possessing nuclear weapons: America and Russia. I believe that is the likely way ahead. The hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) has been making speeches on this subject for many years. I believe he is in a state where he ignores from his calculations the existence of the United States and regards us as the key player. That is only right if we believe we are back in the gunship days of the 19th century. If there is an attack on the Baltic states, they will not come looking for us to defend them; they will look towards the United States. The NATO countries met in my constituency in September. Of those 28 nations, how many are nuclear powers? Just three of them. The rest are not. The belief that we must punch above our weight—a hangover from Victorian times—has done us much damage. We did it in Iraq and Helmand. We punched above our weight, spent beyond our interests and died beyond our responsibilities. I received a letter today from the Minister about the event on Friday to recall the heroism of those who died in Afghanistan, saying we had to be grateful to them because they reduced the threat of terrorism in Britain. No they did not—our being in Iraq and Helmand increased the terrorist threat. We did not get rid of the Muslim bodies threatening us; we multiplied them. We went from small organisations in one or two countries to a threat in many countries throughout the world. I was once expelled from the House for saying that Ministers were not telling the truth when they said to our soldiers, “Go to Afghanistan and you will stop bombs coming to the streets of Britain.” It was never true. It was never true when Tony Blair said he was going into Iraq to stop terrorism. We have this whole mismatch—this idea that the threats in the world can be held back by nuclear weapons—but the threats are very different. We cannot hold back terrorism with nuclear weapons. We cannot hold back global warming with nuclear weapons. We cannot provide clean water to our planet with nuclear weapons.
2015-03-09a.117.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Bob Stewart	But we can hold back the Russians from firing their weapons at us with nuclear weapons, and they have declared they are prepared to use them.
2015-03-09a.117.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Paul Flynn	Does the hon. Gentleman really believe that the Russians would do that, knowing they would be committing suicide and that they would be attacked by America, not us? This is the delusion. We do not believe that the 28 countries of NATO, protected by America’s weapons, will ever be attacked by Russia with nuclear weapons. Thank goodness, we have had this long period of 70 years during which, by luck and good management, no nuclear weapons have been dropped—well, four were dropped over Palomares, and one of them has never been recovered, but we have never had a situation where a nuclear event seemed likely, with all the consequences that my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) mentioned but about which we have forgotten: of a global winter and other horrors. We have to learn lessons and unite the world. There are many reasons to be optimistic. John Kerry has said: “All countries…profit when there is smart, continuous action in the direction of nuclear disarmament.” President Obama has said: “The United States seeks the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons”. On 6 February , at the conference organised in London by the Foreign Office for the P5, the UK, the US, Russia —significantly—France and China, the P5 issued a statement saying: “At their 2015 Conference the P5 restated their belief that the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty remains the essential cornerstone for the nuclear non-proliferation regime and the foundation for the pursuit of nuclear disarmament, and is an essential contribution to international security and stability.” For goodness’ sake, can we not proceed positively by seeking disarmament and trying to build confidence among the nations, instead of wallowing in the old cold war antagonisms and fantasies about our supreme position among the family of nations? That is not our position. We should pursue what realistic chances there are to reduce the tension and great danger from nuclear weapons.
2015-03-09a.118.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	John Spellar	I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) on leading this debate and on her role in these issues over many years, not to mention her role in our party in a number of positions. She set the tone for the debate by the way she introduced it. It has been a good humoured, but extremely well informed debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) was right to mention a degree of optimism. If we look back to when the nuclear non-proliferation treaty was originally drafted, we see that the expectations for the spread and proliferation of nuclear weapons were far worse than has been the outcome. What happened is certainly not perfect, but it is much better than was anticipated. We have seen significant reductions in weapons worldwide, and particularly among the arsenals of Russia and the United States, which reflects the theme running through the debate that disarmament follows confidence, rather than confidence following disarmament. Many fewer countries than anticipated, although still too many, have proliferated, and Britain has played a prominent role in that, which we should not underestimate. Under the previous Labour Government, in which I served as a Defence Minister, we cut the number of operationally available warheads from 300 at the time of the ’98 strategic defence review to fewer than 160 by the time of the 2010 general election. We reduced the number of warheads carried by submarines from 96 to 48, and we withdrew the WE177 nuclear capability from service. It is important, too, that there has been a cross-party priority for the UK to continue on that path, and I am pleased that the current Government have continued in that vein, and that the UK has been one of the most transparent of the nuclear powers in dealing with that. As I indicated, the relationship between the US and Russia is the crucial one in nuclear negotiations. Those countries are the clear and indispensable leaders, I suppose one could say, with the overwhelming majority of nuclear capability. Reference was made to the strategic arms reduction treaty and to the on-off discussions that go on. Considerable developments have taken place, such as a substantial amount of nuclear material being removed not only from the United States but with the co-operation of the United States and Russia—yet things are not necessarily heading in the right direction. We need to be concerned about the expansion of Russian capability and a major modernisation of Russia’s strategic forces—involving the deployment of two new types of sea-launched ballistic missiles, a new class of ballistic missile submarines, a new type of intercontinental ballistic missile; and work on a new bomber and long-range cruise missiles. Sir John Sawers recently indicated that Russia is prepared to use those weapons in certain circumstances. So while there are some encouraging trends, the trends are not all in one direction. The hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) reminded us that the prospect of nuclear war is horrific, but that conventional war is pretty awful as well. A number of Members, including the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) and my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) , mentioned Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but the fire bombings in Tokyo consumed huge numbers of lives, as indeed did the fire bombings in Hamburg, and we have recently heard more controversy over what happened in Dresden. The horrors of civil war in Syria show that it is not only state-on-state conflict that can cause such tragedy and devastation. It can happen in well-armed civil wars, as well. Nor is it only in this or the previous century that we have seen these horrors. It was not a general during this or the 20th century who aptly said “war is hell”. It was General Sherman, who had seen more than enough of that during the American civil war, which led to huge loss of life and injury. As the hon. Member for New Forest East rightly said, countries do not distrust each other because they are armed, but are armed because they distrust each other. That applies to nuclear issues as between India and Pakistan. The issue is not their possession of nuclear armaments, but the incessant pressure that they exert on each other and the great distrust that exists between them. I was very encouraged by the fact that embarking on discussions with Pakistan was one of the first acts of the new President Modi in India. That process will not be easy, but it is enormously important. The same applies in the middle east: disarmament will proceed from confidence, not confidence from disarmament. That is why it is so crucial for peace talks to be restarted, notwithstanding the difficulties that have arisen along the way. My hon. Friend the Member for Newport West repeated what has been said in other debates that have been based on the proposition that nuclear weapons are an inappropriate response to many of the very real contemporary threats that we face, such as terrorism, insurgencies, cyber-attacks and climate change. Of course, they were never designed for that purpose. That is not their role. They are focused on state-on-state conflicts. In Europe, given the increasing assertiveness of Russia, we are starting to see the re-emergence of that scenario. It is not only the actions in Ukraine that are causing concern; they are merely the most extreme symptom of a number of problems that have been manifesting themselves. There are, for instance, increasing pressures on countries in the “near abroad”, especially the Baltic states. I am pleased that the Government have responded by engaging in military co-operation with those states, along with other NATO countries. There are the cyber-attacks by which Estonia has been hit particularly badly. NATO is currently discussing whether a significant cyber-attack constitutes an article 5 attack on a member state. There is also increased maritime activity, especially submarine activity. Let me depart briefly from the slightly more bipartisan attitude that I have adopted in this debate, and say that I think it was absurd for a country that is as dependent as ours on its sea lanes for both trade and security to lose its maritime patrol capability. We have also seen the testing of our aviation defences, which has been very well publicised recently. Incidentally, it is not just the United Kingdom that is experiencing such problems. They are also being experienced by, for example, the Scandinavian countries. There is a genuine public debate across a wide part of the political spectrum in two countries that have maintained a position of neutrality, Sweden and Finland, about whether they should consider a relationship with, or even membership of, NATO. While being cautious, we should also be constructive. Indeed, as one of the P5, we have a special responsibility to be so. That is why—as a number of Members have mentioned—my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mr Alexander) wrote to the Prime Minister in November 2014, urging him to ensure that the United Kingdom was represented at the Vienna conference on the humanitarian impact of nuclear weapons in December. I agree with the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire that that was a difficult and delicately balanced decision, but I think that it was the right decision, because engagement is important. That is also why it is important for Britain to play a constructive role in working for a nuclear-free world by not removing itself from the equation through nuclear disarmament, and why, at the Labour party conference, we committed ourselves to a minimum credible deterrent delivered through a continuous at-sea deterrent, while taking a leading international role in pressing the agenda of global anti-proliferation. Contrary to the view of my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North, ours is not a unilateralist party. The Scottish National party, whose members are conspicuous by their absence—they seem to have plenty to say, but they did not actually participate in the debate, apart from one Member who intervened—want to abandon our nuclear capability, while still applying to be part of a nuclear alliance in NATO. As a number of Members said, the NPT review is coming up at a very inconvenient time. International conferences have taken place at inconvenient times in the election cycle. Potsdam was slightly disrupted by that, with one Prime Minister at the beginning and another at the end—a very welcome change, of course, and an encouraging precedent—but we should still be engaged, and the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire rightly mentioned the officials, the sherpas, who will be working on that. As he rightly concluded, a successful conference will not be achieved by grand gestures; it will be achieved by dogged determination, and although many of the details may seem arid, they are hugely important and relevant. We pay tribute to the officials for their work, and I hope that we have indicated that the UK and this House as a whole are determined that those discussions should succeed. We remain alert, but we also remain positive to working towards achieving a nuclear-free world and a safer world.
2015-03-09a.120.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Tobias Ellwood	May I begin by joining others in paying tribute to the right hon. Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) and to the Backbench Business Committee for allowing this informative, detailed and constructive debate to take place? I have an interest in the Top Level Group, which has been mentioned a couple of times. Back in May 2011, it contacted me, to my surprise, because I thought perhaps this was an invitation to join it. It is an elite group for senior parliamentarians. I was not being invited to join, of course, but I was invited to chair a meeting taking place in the UK with Senators George Shultz, William Perry and Sam Nunn—sadly, Henry Kissinger could not make it—for the launch of the film “Nuclear Tipping Point”, which the right hon. Lady might be familiar with. That was my introduction to the issues we have been discussing today. They are of such importance that I am very pleased we have had this debate, but, as has been said, the timing of the conference could not, perhaps, have been worse. The right hon. Lady reminded us that this is now the 45th anniversary of the NPT, and of the importance of access to civil nuclear power. My right hon. Friend the Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Sir John Stanley) —who sends his apologies for not being in his place as I understand that there are engineering works on his line—raised a number of issues that I will do my best to cover, and if I do not manage to address any points I will write to him and other Members. He mentioned the comprehensive test ban treaty, and I pay tribute to him for the work he does as chairman of the Committees on Arms Export Controls. The hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) has debated these matters on many occasions in this Chamber. He talked about this debate being a precedent. I concur: it is important that we have a debate prior to these conferences. He also mentioned the Iranian delegation that is in the UK—in London. I will meet it as well. My hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) once again demonstrated his expertise in this area. He spoke of the Budapest memorandum and the comments Lord Robertson made, a reminder that that was a political commitment, not a legal obligation, and of the consequences of obligations not being honoured. I recently visited Ukraine with the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) , a pleasurable visit during which we learned about that country and the challenges it faces. I pay tribute to the work done at the shipyard in his constituency, which has served our Royal Navy for so many years. My right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) speaks with some authority on these matters, being the only former Minister on the Government Benches who has gone to one of the conferences, because of the timing of these events. He mentioned both the Top Level Group—I am pleased he is now chairing it—and the European Leadership Network. He paid huge tribute to the Foreign Office in this context, and I am glad that he did so. I would certainly echo those comments. He mentioned the role of the non-governmental organisations, and I am pleased to say that they are now participating more in these conferences. They play an important role in adding to the debate. He also made an astute observation about the changes in the generational view of the threat, in regard to what we grew up with during the cold war and to how the present generation perceive the threat. The hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) has not changed his views. He made a number of points, and I am sure he will not be surprised to learn that I did not really agree with any of them. As I have said, I will do my best to write to any hon. Members whose questions I have not managed to cover today. This Government remain a firm supporter of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and of its three pillars: disarmament, non-proliferation and the peaceful uses of nuclear energy. The NPT has been a major factor in keeping the world safe since it came into force in 1970, curtailing the nuclear arms race. It remains at the centre of international efforts to stop the spread of nuclear weapons and ultimately to create a nuclear weapon-free world. All but a handful of the world’s states have now acceded to the NPT, but these accomplishments are not enough, and the treaty will continue to face challenges, as we can see from the nuclear weapons ambitions of North Korea and Iran. The Government acknowledge that there is frustration at the perceived slow pace of global disarmament and at the delay in convening a conference on a middle eastern zone that is free from weapons of mass destruction. Agreeing an outcome at this year’s review conference will certainly be challenging. Despite that, we remain confident that consensus can be reached and that the NPT can be strengthened. Consensus proved possible in 2010 when states agreed an action plan setting out a framework for balanced progress across all the three pillars. That was a real achievement and we hope that the review conference will confirm its continued relevance. We are committed to doing what we can to bring all sides together and to underlining our commitment to the NPT. I am sure that the House will therefore welcome the fact that, despite the small matter of the forthcoming general election, the Prime Minister has asked the Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the noble Baroness Anelay of St Johns, to speak during the opening week of the review conference. In addition, our ambassador to the conference on disarmament and a team of cross-Whitehall officials will play an active role during the negotiations. Let me outline some of the ways in which we have made progress. First, on disarmament and deterrence, no one in the House should be in any doubt that the UK supports multilateral nuclear disarmament, negotiated in a step-by-step manner. We have made tangible progress unilaterally, and we have steadily reduced the size of our own nuclear weapons stockpile, by well over 50% since the cold war peak. We now have just one delivery system, provided by four ballistic missile submarines. We have made further progress since 2010. The Secretary of State for Defence recently announced that the UK had reduced the number of warheads on each of our deployed Vanguard class ballistic missile submarines from 48 to 40, and the number of operational missiles on each of those submarines to no more than eight. The Government have also set out their desire to reduce our total nuclear weapons stockpile to no more than 180 by the mid-2020s. We estimate that our warhead inventory now stands at approximately 1% of the global total. This openness reinforces our belief that the UK is the most forward leaning and transparent nuclear weapons state. In this vein, the House will recall that we recently revised our national report to the NPT, detailing our progress. In addition, the UK has led the way on nuclear disarmament verification research. This includes our ground-breaking work with Norway, as well as a long-running programme of work with the United States. We look forward to the continuation and expansion of that work in the next review cycle. Multilateral nuclear disarmament will be achieved only if all states are committed to creating a world without nuclear weapons that is safer and more prosperous for all. Globally, we have come a long way, but more than 17,000 nuclear weapons still remain. We cannot uninvent them, nor can we rule out a future nuclear threat to the UK. Our own reductions have not always encouraged other states that possess nuclear weapons to follow our example, nor have they influenced those seeking a nuclear weapons capability to abandon their attempts. This Government will therefore retain a credible and effective minimum nuclear deterrent for as long as the global security situation makes that necessary. That includes a posture of continuous at-sea deterrence, known as Operation Relentless. We have delivered that without pause since April 1969. It is the UK’s most enduring operation and, as both a Minister and an Army reservist, may I pay tribute to the families and the crew of the Royal Navy and all those involved? Continuous at-sea deterrence is the best way to deter the most extreme threats, including nuclear blackmail and a nuclear attack against the UK, our vital interests or our NATO allies. Secondly, on the P5 process and the P5 conference, which have been mentioned by right hon. and hon. Members, relations between Russia and the west have become increasingly strained over the past year, as hon. Members will doubtless be aware. None the less, the UK is committed to a cool but hard-headed approach with Russia. The UK has therefore continued to advocate dialogue between all nuclear weapons states; building trust and mutual confidence are essential first steps towards achieving our goal of a world without nuclear weapons, even during these testing times. The P5 process has therefore continued. We must not forget that before the dialogue was initiated by the UK in 2009 the five nuclear weapons states did not get together as a group to discuss nuclear disarmament issues. The UK hosted the sixth P5 conference in London last month and we believe that this engagement is beginning to deliver. I would recommend the statement I made to the House on 12 February to those who wish to read in more detail about the conference outcomes. Thirdly, let me deal with the humanitarian impacts of the use of nuclear weapons. The House will recall that the UK participated in the most recent conference in Vienna, mentioned by right hon. and hon. Members, on the humanitarian impact of the use of nuclear weapons. Ministers took that decision in part because we recognise the importance that many NPT states and hon. Members of this House attach to this initiative. It was also done because we share the deep concern at the humanitarian consequences that could result from the use of nuclear weapons. Let me make it clear that we hope never to use nuclear weapons, but we do aim to deliver a deterrence effect at all times, and we would consider using our nuclear weapons only in extreme circumstances of self-defence, including the defence of our NATO allies. That is why we work to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and their technology, and to keep weapons safe and secure.
2015-03-09a.123.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Julian Lewis	I entirely agree with the thrust of the Minister’s argument, but may I urge on him a change in terminology? I would prefer it if he would talk about “firing” nuclear weapons when he is referring to “using” them, because on our side of the argument we believe that they are used every day to keep the peace and prevent other nuclear powers from blackmailing us.
2015-03-09a.124.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Tobias Ellwood	I do not want to get caught up in the nomenclature, be it firing, launching or something else, but I understand the thrust of what my hon. Friend is trying to say. Let me conclude on the conference. Our attendance in Vienna did not mean a deviation from our support for a step-by-step approach to multilateral disarmament. Some in the international community would like to force the pace of disarmament in a way that does not take into account wider security considerations, such as trying to set a fixed timetable for disarmament. We do not support that. Fourthly, let me deal with the middle east weapons of mass destruction-free zone, which my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire said was an interesting description. The UK certainly resolutely supports the goal of the middle east zone free from weapons of mass destruction and the 1995 NPT resolution on the middle east. We also remained committed to convening a conference on such a zone, as was mandated in 2010 by the very conference that he attended.
2015-03-09a.124.1	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Jeremy Corbyn	Will the Minister assure the House that the UK delegation to New York will make real efforts to try to ensure that there are side meetings and so on to try to bring about this conference, because the dangers of it not happening are huge?
2015-03-09a.124.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Tobias Ellwood	I agree with the hon. Gentleman. New York presents the next opportunity for us to ensure that we push these points forward. It is sad, as Members have said, that we have not been able to move on this matter. Many Members spoke passionately and with concern that, if we do not seek a resolution on this, we could see further proliferation, with nations deciding to turn their back and to seek to arm. There has been real progress at the consultations over the past couple of years. Remaining differences can be bridged with political will on both sides. We regret that, to date, further consultations have not proved possible, and we accept, sadly, that a conference will not take place before the review conference. As the hon. Gentleman points out, New York might be the opportunity for us to reconvene on this matter.
2015-03-09a.124.3	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Alistair Burt	Will my hon. Friend confirm that the idea of the facilitator, Mr Laajava, to have these consultations resulted from his not being able to secure the conference itself? The consultation, far from being a step away from the conference and therefore something to criticise because it was not getting to the end that we wanted to reach, was a necessary step to build the confidence that would allow the conference to take place. My friend Jaakko Laajava is to be commended for what he is trying to do.
2015-03-09a.124.4	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Tobias Ellwood	I certainly agree that, given the work that has been done in the past two years, there are grounds for cautious optimism. We can work towards that in New York at the UN General Assembly. Turning to the fissile material cut-off treaty—the FMCT—the Government want negotiations on fissile material cut-off as soon as possible, and we continue to work with partners at the conference on disarmament to press Pakistan to end its block on the start of negotiations. The comprehensive test ban treaty was mentioned by a number of Members. The UK has long been a supporter of the comprehensive test ban treaty, and it was one of the first countries, along with France, to ratify the treaty in 1998. We continue to push for the eight remaining annex 2 states to ratify the treaty through bilateral discussions. In conclusion, the UK remains deeply committed to the NPT and the principles for which it stands. In many ways, our aims for the review conference are simple: to uphold the NPT across its three pillars along with the web of regimes and controls that complement it; to deter non-compliance and see greater adherence to safeguards; to continue to work for the universalisation of the treaty, bringing the remaining few into the international non-proliferation architecture; to underline again our commitment to the goal of a world without nuclear weapons and to zero tolerance of proliferation; and to continue to support the global expansion of civil nuclear activity to high standards of safety and security, and in line with non- proliferation obligations. This Government are clear that we will maintain a credible and effective minimum nuclear deterrent based on a continuous at-sea deterrence for as long as the global security environment makes that necessary.
2015-03-09a.125.0	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Backbench Business — Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference	Margaret Beckett	I thank all those who have welcomed this debate, particularly the tone of it. I also thank the Minister for his commitment that such a debate should always precede the review conference in future. I think that everyone has accepted that establishing and maintaining trust is key and that the best way to do that is through the P5 process and other such steps, which continue that hard negotiation and detailed work to which the right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) referred. I echo the praise that has been uttered by Members on both sides for our team of officials, but say how much I think it will be a help to them for it to be as clear as it has been in this debate that there is cross-party agreement, across this House, on the importance of this issue, on Britain’s role in trying to help maintain the process of the NPT review conference and on improving and sustaining that vision of a world free of nuclear weapons to which all of us adhere. This has been a constructive debate. I welcome all those who have participated and it seems to me that maintaining the vision to which so many have referred is the key to maintaining progress. Question put and agreed to . Resolved, That this House has considered the forthcoming Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference.
2015-03-09a.126.2	Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [Lords]	Business without Debate — Delegated Legislation — Constitutional Law	Eleanor Laing	With the leave of the House, we shall take motions 7 and 8 together.
2015-03-10a.135.4	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	Rosie Cooper	What recent estimate Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has made of the amount of uncollected tax in the UK.
2015-03-10a.135.5	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	Mary Glindon	What recent estimate Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has made of the amount of uncollected tax in the UK.
2015-03-10a.135.6	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	David Gauke	HMRC published its latest tax gap estimates on 16 October 2014 . In 2012-13, the tax gap was estimated at £34 billion, 6.8% of total tax due.
2015-03-10a.135.7	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	Rosie Cooper	I thank the Minister for those figures. Will he confirm that HMRC’s own figures show that under this Government the amount of uncollected tax has risen by £3 billion?
2015-03-10a.135.8	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	David Gauke	The number I quoted a moment ago, 6.8%, is a lower percentage of tax due than was achieved in any year under the previous Government.
2015-03-10a.135.9	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	Mary Glindon	There has been speculation that the Chancellor’s Budget next week will deal with tax avoidance and evasion, but there has also been speculation that by 2016 the number of staff working in HMRC will drop from 50,000 to just over 40,000. How do the Government expect to deal with evasion and avoidance if they are unwilling to properly resource HMRC?
2015-03-10a.135.10	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	David Gauke	Over the course of this Parliament, HMRC has brought in more yield year after year. If the measure is just on the number of staff, the hon. Lady will be aware that, when HMRC was formed in 2005, it had something like 92,000 members of staff and that by the end of the previous Parliament it had below 70,000. It is not about the number of staff. We are seeing a huge improvement in HMRC’s performance.
2015-03-10a.135.11	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	Andrew Bridgen	Will the Minister confirm that HMRC’s compliance yield target has actually been revised up this year to £26 billion, which is £9 billion more than when this Government came to office?
2015-03-10a.136.0	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	David Gauke	My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The important point here is the output, not the input. I should point out that the number of staff employed in enforcement and compliance has gone up over the course of this Parliament.
2015-03-10a.136.1	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	Paul Blomfield	A young man in my constituency had his jobseeker’s allowance taken away because he missed an early morning appointment, despite having notified the jobcentre of the illness that prevented him from attending. He is just one of many vulnerable people affected by the sanctioning regime imposed by this Government. According to the House of Commons Library, the amount lost in tax evasion and tax avoidance exceeds the entire spend on JSA by £2 billion. Does the contrast between the persecution of the most vulnerable and the Government’s failure on tax avoidance not say everything about their priorities?
2015-03-10a.136.2	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	David Gauke	Over the course of this Parliament, the number of prosecutions for tax evasion has gone up fivefold. The reality is that the Government are taking more measures to deal with tax avoidance and tax evasion. We have done that consistently at every Budget. Ever since the 2010 spending review, there has been a greater focus on HMRC being able to bring in the yield. The numbers, as my hon. Friend the Member for North West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen) pointed out, speak for themselves.
2015-03-10a.136.3	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	Sammy Wilson	Hundreds of millions of pounds are lost in revenue, criminal gangs are financed and untold damage is done to the environment in Northern Ireland as a result of fuel laundering. Why have the Government resisted putting effective trace measures into fuel, which would stamp this out? Is the Minister concerned that despite numerous raids nobody is ever caught for fuel laundering in Northern Ireland?
2015-03-10a.136.4	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	David Gauke	Our record across the piece shows that we take tax evasion and criminal activity in this area very seriously. This is a complex matter, but the hon. Gentleman will know that considerable efforts have been undertaken to address fuel laundering. This is a matter we take very seriously.
2015-03-10a.136.5	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	Shabana Mahmood	The Minister must acknowledge the significant damage that the recent HSBC tax avoidance and evasion scandal has done to the public’s confidence in the Government’s willingness to pursue tax avoiders and evaders, thereby reducing the amount of uncollected tax in the UK. In the Chancellor’s absence, will the Minister now answer the question that the Chancellor failed to answer six times on the “Today” programme? Did the Chancellor ever discuss tax evasion at HSBC with Lord Green—yes or no?
2015-03-10a.136.6	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	David Gauke	As I have pointed out, the Government’s efforts and success in dealing with tax avoidance and tax evasion are a huge step forward from what we inherited. On the appointment of Lord Green, the proper processes, as put in place by the previous Government, were undertaken. The Cabinet Secretary looked at Lord Green’s tax affairs, and just as the previous Government appointed him to their business advisory council, so he was appointed as a Minister—an appointment that was welcomed by the Labour party.
2015-03-10a.137.0	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	Shabana Mahmood	Still we have no answer to the simplest and clearest of questions. If we cannot get a straight answer from the Chancellor or his Ministers, we should at least hear from Lord Green—the man who was in charge of the bank and was then made a Conservative Minister—either in front of a parliamentary Committee or through a statement in the other place. Why are the Government parties so desperate to silence Lord Green? What are they so afraid he will reveal?
2015-03-10a.137.1	TREASURY	Uncollected Tax	David Gauke	We are not afraid of anything. The Government have been more successful at prosecuting criminals involved in tax evasions, more successful at closing down tax avoidance loopholes and more successful at getting money in. That is a record we can be proud of.
2015-03-10a.137.3	TREASURY	Tax Credits	Jessica Morden	What proportion of recipients of tax credits are in employment.
2015-03-10a.137.4	TREASURY	Tax Credits	Andrea Leadsom	In total, 4.5 million households are in receipt of tax credits, and 71% of them are in employment. The Government believe it is right to provide additional support to those in need through the benefits system, but we have been clear throughout that we want to ensure that people are better off in work than on benefits.
2015-03-10a.137.5	TREASURY	Tax Credits	Jessica Morden	Will the Minister confirm that the Government’s real-terms cuts to tax credits will not only hit more people in work but hit far more women than men?
2015-03-10a.137.6	TREASURY	Tax Credits	Andrea Leadsom	I am sure the hon. Lady shares my delight at the great news that the gender pay gap is lower than it has ever been, that there are more women in work than ever before and that 1.85 million people are in work who were not in work at the time of the last general election. That is cause for celebration. The Government have strived at every point to support women into work, whether through entrepreneurial allowances, support for women with child care or other measures.
2015-03-10a.137.7	TREASURY	Tax Credits	John Howell	Is my hon. Friend aware of the Institute for Fiscal Studies report on living standards showing that living standards are back to where they were before Labour’s great recession? Does this not help the very people she has mentioned?
2015-03-10a.137.8	TREASURY	Tax Credits	Andrea Leadsom	Yes, my hon. Friend is exactly right. The IFS report also showed that 200,000 fewer people were in relative poverty in 2014-15 compared with 2009-10, including 100,000 children, and that since 2010 the number of children under 16 in workless households had fallen by about 390,000, taking it to the lowest level since records began. That is very good news.
2015-03-10a.137.9	TREASURY	Tax Credits	Ian Lavery	The average wage in my constituency is £450, which is £71 per week less than the national average. How can the Minister defend real-terms cuts to tax credits for these hard-working people, particularly the women, in my constituency?
2015-03-10a.138.0	TREASURY	Tax Credits	Andrea Leadsom	The hon. Gentleman will surely be delighted at the news from the IFS and other forecasters that real wages are now rising at a higher rate than inflation, and it is thanks to our long-term economic plan that inflation is so low. We have had council tax cuts and fuel duty freezes, and we have done everything we can by raising personal tax-free allowances to enable people to benefit from a recovering economy, but we can only do it by sticking to a long-term economic plan.
2015-03-10a.138.1	TREASURY	Tax Credits	Tony Baldry	Am I right in thinking that universal credit will replace working tax credits and child tax credits, making 3 million households better off by an average of £177 per month and improving work incentives by allowing people to keep more of their income as they move into work?
2015-03-10a.138.2	TREASURY	Tax Credits	Andrea Leadsom	Yes, my right hon. Friend is exactly right. Universal credit is a major reform that will transform the welfare state in Britain for the better. It will replace the current complex system of means-tested working-age benefits, including tax credits, and make 3 million households better off by on average £177 a month.
2015-03-10a.138.4	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Jack Lopresti	What steps he is taking to invest in infrastructure.
2015-03-10a.138.5	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Danny Alexander	This Government have revolutionised the approach to infrastructure through long-term planning via the national infrastructure plan, which we conceived and published, that sets out an infrastructure pipeline worth more than £460 billion of public and private investment. In the 2013 spending round, I committed over £100 billion to support infrastructure investment across the United Kingdom.
2015-03-10a.138.6	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Jack Lopresti	I am delighted that the Government have made significant commitments to the south-west region, such as the fantastic £50 million-worth of investment for a new junction on the M49 in my constituency. Will the Minister confirm what further investments he is making for improvements to transport across the south-west region as a whole?
2015-03-10a.138.7	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Danny Alexander	Investment in the transport infrastructure of the south-west has been a much higher priority for this Government than, I think, for any previous Government. We have committed £7.2 billion-worth of investment in the transport infrastructure of the south-west, including £2 billion in roads—for example, dualling the A303 and the new tunnel at Stonehenge, sorting out the A30 all the way to Camborne and the electrification of the Great Western main line with new inter-city express trains. I have recently asked the south-west peninsula rail task force to bring forward more proposals for investment in strategic rail schemes for the region.
2015-03-10a.138.8	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	John Healey	Last month, a couple of hundred senior business figures gave a very warm welcome to the second stage of the review that Sir John Armitt has done on infrastructure for the Labour party, including plans for a new independent national infrastructure commission to identify the country’s long-term needs and monitor Governments’ plans to meet them. Business backs Labour plans; business organisations back Labour’s plans; will the right hon. Gentleman back them?
2015-03-10a.139.0	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Danny Alexander	Of course, the Labour party’s belated conversion to long-term planning for infrastructure is welcome, although it was not the practice during its 13 years in office. I think that the national infrastructure plan and the architecture around it provides the right framework for delivering that long-term planning. I am not convinced of the idea that a new quango is the best way to solve the problem.
2015-03-10a.139.1	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Caroline Spelman	Last week, the HS2 Select Committee wrote to the Treasury asking for more flexibility on big infrastructure projects where farmers have difficulty finding suitable replacement land within the statutory time limits for capital gains tax relief, leaving the businesses in the position of not knowing whether or not a discretionary power could be granted. Can the Chief Secretary give some comfort to my constituents who are affected by this?
2015-03-10a.139.2	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Danny Alexander	I do take seriously my right hon. Friend’s point. The Department for Transport is working on the plans to flesh out how these things will work in respect of HS2. I would add that HMRC can provide extra flexibility where there are particular impacts on particular farmers or other businesses. I would certainly want to maintain an open mind on the points that my right hon. Friend is raising.
2015-03-10a.139.3	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Dennis Skinner	I could not help but notice that when my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) was asking the Chief Secretary’s sidekick to answer a question about Lord Green, the Chief Secretary was constantly having a laugh at his expense. I am going to give him a chance: will he now answer the question about meeting Lord Green. Now is the opportunity to make a name for himself. Come on.
2015-03-10a.139.4	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Mr Speaker	The hon. Gentleman has made his point, but unfortunately it does not relate to investment in infrastructure.
2015-03-10a.139.5	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Dennis Skinner	How do you know?
2015-03-10a.139.6	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Mr Speaker	I am trying to use such powers of anticipation as I have, but let us hear the Chief Secretary respond.
2015-03-10a.139.7	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Danny Alexander	I do not recall ever having had any conversations about investment in infrastructure with Lord Green. Matters relating to ministerial appointments are, of course, a matter for the Prime Minister. What matters is making sure that in this country we have a zero-tolerance approach to tax evasion and tax avoidance, and that where organisations are facilitating or encouraging tax evasion, we put in place the proper penalties.
2015-03-10a.139.8	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Julian Lewis	Does the Chief Secretary agree that no British Government should fail to invest in the infrastructure, the personnel and the equipment of the armed forces at a rate less than the NATO-recommended minimum? Will he have a word with his leader and with mine to make sure that the necessary commitment is given before the general election?
2015-03-10a.140.0	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Danny Alexander	We have met that commitment in the present Parliament, and we will do so in 2015-16 as well. Spending on defence will, of course. be a matter for the next spending round. However, I suggest that the hon. Gentleman should have regard not just to the total amount spent, but to the efficiency of the expenditure. We have made great progress during this Parliament in securing better value, in terms of defence equipment and output, for the limited money that we have to spend as a country.
2015-03-10a.140.1	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Margaret Ritchie	The Treasury has had meetings with the European Commission to discuss the reinstatement of the aggregate credit levy scheme for Northern Ireland, which could serve as a further tool of investment in infrastructure. What further discussions have taken place?
2015-03-10a.140.2	TREASURY	Infrastructure Investment	Danny Alexander	I know that discussions have been ongoing, and that the issue has been the subject of a protracted dispute. I have no further updates, but I will ensure that my ministerial colleague who is responsible for the scheme writes to the hon. Lady.
2015-03-10a.140.4	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	Andrew Gwynne	What recent representations he has received on fiscal steps to address funding pressures in the NHS.
2015-03-10a.140.5	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	Danny Alexander	The Government have protected the health budget in real terms throughout the current Parliament. Of course a strong national health service needs a strong economy, and the Government plan to deliver that strong economy, along with a fairer society. The NHS budget has already increased by £12.7 billion during this Parliament, and in the autumn statement we announced an additional £2 billion for front-line NHS services. That money is intended to meet demand pressures in the next financial year, and also to help to start the process of transformation that was outlined in the “Five Year Forward View”, which is probably the most important representation that I have received on NHS funding in the last year or so.
2015-03-10a.140.6	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	Andrew Gwynne	Hospitals have struggled to cope with the pressures during the winter. Labour has made a fully funded commitment to provide the extra doctors, nurses, home care workers and midwives who are needed through a “time to care” fund. Analysis of Conservative party spending plans shows that more than 260,000 elderly people risk losing their social care packages during the next Parliament. Is it not time for the Government to commit themselves to taxing hedge funds and tobacco companies in order to raise the extra resources that our NHS so desperately needs?
2015-03-10a.140.7	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	Danny Alexander	Let me gently say to the hon. Gentleman that he ought to be a wee bit cautious about believing too many of his Front Benchers’ spending plans. They say that they want to deal with the deficit but have set out no plans to do so, and they have made multiple spending commitments without any sense of how those commitments will accord with their fiscal strategy. The hon. Gentleman is, of course, right to suggest that going too far and reducing the deficit reduction by more than is necessary in the next Parliament would have a damaging effect on public services. I would say that his party has got it wrong and the Conservative party has got it wrong, but the Liberal Democrats have got it right.
2015-03-10a.141.0	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	David Davies	Despite the economic chaos that was inherited by the coalition Government, spending on the NHS in England has been protected and increased. Does that not compare very favourably with the position in Wales, where a Labour Government have slashed NHS spending by 8%? Should we not judge these people by their deeds rather than their words?
2015-03-10a.141.1	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	Danny Alexander	My hon. Friend has made a very fair point. Comparing the NHS performance of different Administrations is an important activity, in which I am sure he will engage very fruitfully over the next few weeks. Let me add that if we are to judge a Labour Government by their actions, we should look at the mess that the Labour party made of the economy when it was last in power. If we found ourselves with problems of that kind again, money for our NHS would be one of the resources that would suffer.
2015-03-10a.141.2	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	Christopher Leslie	As we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) , the pressures on the NHS are already putting care services in crisis. Why has the Chief Secretary colluded in Tory plans to shrink public investment and take an additional £70 billion from public services in the next Parliament, thus posing an even bigger risk to health and social care? He has dodged the question in the past; will he give us a straight answer now? Why did he sign off those Tory plans in the autumn statement?
2015-03-10a.141.3	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	Danny Alexander	The hon. Gentleman would do better to begin any question about the NHS with an acknowledgement of his own party’s failures I have made it clear that the figures published by the Office for Budget Responsibility represent a neutral assumption. I think the hon. Gentleman’s party would borrow too much and the Conservatives would cut too much, and that what we need is a balanced approach in the middle.
2015-03-10a.141.4	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	Christopher Leslie	I do not know whether the Chief Secretary knows what he is doing. The letter from the OBR’s Robert Chote explicitly says—I have it in front of me—that the forecast for that £23 billion of surplus in 2019-20 was “signed off by the ‘quad’”, of which I think the Chief Secretary is a member. Is Robert Chote wrong, or did the Chief Secretary not realise what he was signing up to? Will he at least assure us that, if that was a mistake or he did not spot it in the past, he will be opposing a repeat of those Tory plans in next week’s Budget Red Book?
2015-03-10a.141.5	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	Danny Alexander	Matters relating to the Budget will be revealed by the Chancellor in his Budget statement next Wednesday and not before, as I am sure you would expect, Mr Speaker. I have listened to the hon. Gentleman today, as I listened to him on the “Today” programme yesterday, and there was not a single answer about how Labour would balance the books, and not a single answer about how Labour would invest in public services. I heard yesterday about Labour’s zero-based review, which seems to mean zero savings, zero ideas, zero economic credibility.
2015-03-10a.142.0	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	Stephen Mosley	Health services in Chester and west Cheshire are facing increased pressures because of thousands of people fleeing from the Welsh NHS and seeking treatment in England. Will my right hon. Friend guarantee to provide more money for hospitals on the English side of the border, to protect them from the failure of the Labour party in Wales?
2015-03-10a.142.1	TREASURY	NHS Funding Pressures	Danny Alexander	Clearly, there are issues in the NHS in Wales, but I would caution my hon. Friend about the tone of his question, because health workers in England and in Wales are working as hard as they can to provide the best treatment they can for people on either side of the border. Of course there are failures in terms of funding in Wales and issues that need to be dealt with, but everyone on this side of the House should unite in respect and admiration for our nurses and doctors and the work they do to keep us healthy in this country.
2015-03-10a.142.3	TREASURY	Wine Duty	Tim Loughton	If he will make a comparative assessment of the level of duty on wine paid in the UK and in other EU member states.
2015-03-10a.142.4	TREASURY	Wine Duty	David Gauke	Industry estimates show that there are 135 wineries in England and Wales, producing 4.5 million bottles of wine. The UK’s growing and award-winning wine industry benefited from the Government ending the wine duty escalator at Budget 2014.
2015-03-10a.142.5	TREASURY	Wine Duty	Tim Loughton	There will be much responsible dancing in the streets if the Chancellor completes a hat-trick of beer duty cuts in his Budget and there will be much responsible celebration if he cuts the duty on spirits. But there will be much wailing and irrepressible disappointment if he does not reduce the duty on wine, which has gone up by 54% since 2008 alone and accounts for 67% of all the duty on all wine in the whole of the EU. Will he complete a fantastic treble-whammy by dropping the duty on wine, too, which it has been estimated would generate some £3 billion in extra revenue—and 20,000 jobs!
2015-03-10a.142.6	TREASURY	Wine Duty	David Gauke	If it is not already too late to make this suggestion, I think my hon. Friend deserves a good bottle at lunchtime after that effort. He has put his case on the record, but of course all announcements are for the Chancellor on Budget day.
2015-03-10a.142.7	TREASURY	Wine Duty	Barry Sheerman	If this Government do indeed have a long-term economic plan, which most of my constituents do not believe, will the Financial Secretary stop worrying about the older generation of wine drinkers and start concentrating his mind on the young people of this country who are underprivileged and overtaxed and have more problems in getting a good job? It is about time that the 18 to 35-year-olds, rather than the older wine drinkers of this country, were taken into account by this Chancellor.
2015-03-10a.143.0	TREASURY	Wine Duty	David Gauke	First, may I reassure the hon. Gentleman that there is a long-term economic plan, and thank him for using the phrase? Credible public finances will benefit the younger generation, who will not face many years of paying off higher debt levels.
2015-03-10a.143.1	TREASURY	Wine Duty	David Heath	While the Financial Secretary is looking carefully at the duty on English wine, will he redouble his efforts to support artisan and small-scale cider makers, who risk being put out of business as a consequence of a disastrous recent EU decision?
2015-03-10a.143.2	TREASURY	Wine Duty	David Gauke	I appreciate the point made by my hon. Friend. The Government’s support for small cider makers across the piece has helped to create a diverse and vibrant market in this area, and we will continue to study the Commission’s arguments carefully because we want to support this industry.
2015-03-10a.143.4	TREASURY	Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion Schemes	Charlie Elphicke	What plans he has to introduce penalties for financial advisers who promote aggressive tax avoidance and tax evasion schemes.
2015-03-10a.143.5	TREASURY	Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion Schemes	Danny Alexander	This Government have been relentless in cracking down on tax avoidance and evasion. We have introduced a tougher monitoring regime and penalties for high-risk promoters of tax avoidance schemes, and the unprecedented common reporting standard will mean that by 2018 more than 90 countries will be exchanging information on offshore accounts automatically, helping Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to find and pursue offshore evaders successfully.
2015-03-10a.143.6	TREASURY	Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion Schemes	Charlie Elphicke	I thank the Chief Secretary for that answer. Does he agree that more has been done on tax avoidance in the past five years than was done in the previous 13, so craven were the previous Government before big business and big tax avoidance? Will he welcome the Financial Secretary’s announcement yesterday of further action on tax avoidance-promoting schemes?
2015-03-10a.143.7	TREASURY	Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion Schemes	Danny Alexander	The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right in both things that he says. The Financial Secretary’s announcement was very important further progress, but if we look back over the past five years, we see that the relentlessness of our pursuit of measures to crack down on avoidance, be it the general anti-abuse rule in the tax system, the disclosure of tax avoidance schemes regime, the monitoring regime that we are putting in place or the measures to increase prosecutions for tax evasion, has made it clear that there is absolutely no tolerance for aggressive tax avoidance and tax evasion in this country.
2015-03-10a.143.8	TREASURY	Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion Schemes	Geraint Davies	The Chief Secretary will know that 10% of UK wealth is held in offshore bank accounts, which is a much higher proportion than in the United States, so why is he not focusing on that tax avoidance and evasion, at a time when 65% of people on jobseeker’s allowance in Swansea have been sanctioned and are living on a pittance? It is a disgrace.
2015-03-10a.144.0	TREASURY	Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion Schemes	Danny Alexander	The hon. Gentleman clearly was not listening to my first answer, because we have put in place something unprecedented; working with our colleagues in other countries, the common reporting standard will mean that more than 90 countries will be automatically exchanging information on offshore accounts, so that HMRC has the information it needs to find and pursue offshore tax evaders successfully. We need to make further progress on how we deal with organisations that encourage, promote or facilitate tax evasion. I have said I want to see further work done on that, and I am sure we will be hearing more about it soon.
2015-03-10a.144.1	TREASURY	Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion Schemes	Ian Swales	In 2006-07, a hedge fund manager avoided millions in tax through a film scheme later judged unlawful. HSBC received £438,000 for acting as an intermediary, so does the Chief Secretary agree that there should have been a penalty on HSBC for its role in this scam?
2015-03-10a.144.2	TREASURY	Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion Schemes	Danny Alexander	I do not know about the details of the specific instance to which my hon. Friend refers, but I do think that in cases where an organisation is facilitating or promoting tax evasion and a penalty is then paid and tax is paid, as it should have been in the first place, the organisation facilitating the tax evasion should be liable for exactly the same amount of money, to be paid to the Exchequer. In that way, there would be a strong financial as well as legal incentive for people not to get involved in this practice in the first place.
2015-03-10a.144.4	TREASURY	Local Authority Borrowing (Home Building)	Sarah Newton	What recent representations he has received on caps on local authority borrowing for building homes.
2015-03-10a.144.5	TREASURY	Local Authority Borrowing (Home Building)	Danny Alexander	I have received many representations on local authority borrowing caps, but I would refer the House to the recent excellent review of the local authority role in housing supply carried out by Natalie Elphicke and Councillor Keith House. They made many suggestions as to how the local authority role in house building could be improved, but one of their conclusions was that the problem was not a lack of money but the way in which resources are deployed and organised in the local government sector.
2015-03-10a.144.6	TREASURY	Local Authority Borrowing (Home Building)	Sarah Newton	I very much welcome the answer to my question and the other comprehensive measures the Government have taken to enable people to buy their own homes, such as First Buy. Will the Chief Secretary explain a little more about some of those findings and what more we can do to ensure that hard-working people who need social housing can get it?
2015-03-10a.144.7	TREASURY	Local Authority Borrowing (Home Building)	Danny Alexander	The hon. Lady raises an important question. In this Parliament we are building more affordable homes than has been the case at any point in the past 20 years, and in the next Parliament we will be building even more. However, I do not think any of us should be complacent; we need to raise substantially the level of house building in this country. That is why I welcome the recommendation of Keith House and Natalie Elphicke on a housing finance institute. It is also why I set out around the autumn statement last year moves to Government taking a direct commissioning role to ensure that we meet a 300,000 homes a year target. That will be piloted at the Northstowe development, which I encourage the hon. Lady to find out more about.
2015-03-10a.145.0	TREASURY	Local Authority Borrowing (Home Building)	Alison Seabeck	I declare an indirect interest, which is on record. Local authorities are at the sharp end of this Government’s failure to deliver the housing that the country needs, particularly affordable rented housing. Labour Plymouth is proactively doing what the Minister has just said—bringing forward land and building 1,000 homes. It has a view on the cap and about meeting the need. Greater concerns, however, surround the announcement of the starter home scheme, which will lead to a massive loss of affordable home building— developers get out of any requirement to do it and the local authority has no say. Can the Chief Secretary please tell the House what the impact assessment of that policy was and the impact on affordable rented homes?
2015-03-10a.145.1	TREASURY	Local Authority Borrowing (Home Building)	Danny Alexander	The idea behind the starter homes scheme is precisely to offer homes at a discount to young people who want to get on the housing ladder. I would have thought that was an objective that everyone in the House would welcome. If the hon. Lady wants to look at social rented housing, in this Parliament—and continuing in the next Parliament—we have the highest annual rate of social house building than under the previous Government or for the past 20 years. During Labour’s 13 years in office, the number of social homes fell by 421,000; we have increased it by over 300,000.
2015-03-10a.145.3	TREASURY	Tax Devolution	Michael Connarty	What recent discussions he has with the Finance Secretary of the Scottish Government on devolution of taxes.
2015-03-10a.145.4	TREASURY	Tax Devolution	Danny Alexander	I have had frequent and largely constructive discussions with the Scottish Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth, including on the matter of devolution of taxes, as have my ministerial colleagues. The Scottish Minister recently met the Chancellor of the Exchequer. We have made huge progress in the area of tax devolution.
2015-03-10a.145.5	TREASURY	Tax Devolution	Michael Connarty	From reading the text of the Smith agreement, it seems to me that we have handed over income tax in particular to the Scottish Government, whereby allowances and bands can be varied. In fact, we have created the possibility of an independent tax system, apart from hanging on to the 20p tax as a kind of fulcrum around which it must work. Has the Treasury looked at the impact that there would be on the UK if there were an entirely independent tax system in the north of the United Kingdom?
2015-03-10a.145.6	TREASURY	Tax Devolution	Danny Alexander	Yes, we have. The hon. Gentleman is right. The Smith commission—rightly, I believe—devolves power over rates and bands in the income tax system. It does not devolve control of the tax base or the personal allowance. One of the bits of work that remains to be done is to ensure that we have a fiscal framework in place around that which means that the fact of devolution does not offer a financial advantage in and of itself either to Scotland or to the rest of the United Kingdom. I have had constructive discussions with John Swinney on that point and on many others. It is, of course, a matter for the Scottish Government to make sure that they have competent administrative machinery in place, which they will need next month when the process of the first wave of income tax devolution starts.
2015-03-10a.146.0	TREASURY	Tax Devolution	Michael Crockart	Is my right hon. Friend, like me, waiting with bated breath for the latest Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland figures to be published? Does he expect that they will bolster or demolish the Scottish National party’s case for full fiscal autonomy?
2015-03-10a.146.1	TREASURY	Tax Devolution	Danny Alexander	Bated breath might be overstating it, but I expect the new GERS figures very soon. In recent days we have seen evidence of the damage that the Scottish National party’s ideas would do to the UK economy—higher debt for the whole of the UK at the end of this Parliament than at the beginning of it, and an extra £5 billion a year being spent on interest payments. Having been defeated on its proposals for independence, which would have undermined and damaged the Scottish economy, the SNP seems inclined to offer the same damage to the UK economy as a whole.
2015-03-10a.146.2	TREASURY	Tax Devolution	Cathy Jamieson	Under the Scotland Act 2012, from April 2016 Scotland will indeed have significant new tax-raising powers. HMRC’s own risk register shows that the risk that Scottish taxpayers will not be identified by April 2016 has risen from amber to red, so can the Chief Secretary tell the House why, despite these being the biggest changes to Scottish tax ever, only 11 full-time equivalent HMRC staff are working on them and, according to Audit Scotland, they rely on a single official in the Scottish Government?
2015-03-10a.146.3	TREASURY	Tax Devolution	Danny Alexander	I am confident that the resource being applied at the HMRC end of the spectrum is sufficient to ensure that we can deliver the devolution that is planned. That process is going on at present. Stamp duty devolution starts in April this year and income tax devolution the following April. As to whether or not the Scottish Government are applying sufficient resource, effort or people to make sure that the tax system will be competently administered, that is a question for them to answer. I recently signed off the orders to devolve stamp duty, and they will now need to make sure that that is done properly.
2015-03-10a.146.4	TREASURY	Tax Devolution	Cathy Jamieson	I thank the Chief Secretary for that response, although it does not entirely fill me with reassurance. Is it not the case that this whole process risks descending into absolute chaos, and is it not time that both the UK and the Scottish Governments got a grip? How many HMRC and Treasury officials have been seconded to the Scottish Government to help clear up the mess? If people have not been seconded, will he now have urgent discussions to see whether that would help?
2015-03-10a.147.0	TREASURY	Tax Devolution	Danny Alexander	I am afraid that it is a feature of devolution, which the hon. Lady and I both support, that devolved Administrations have to take responsibility for matters that are in their purview. Frankly speaking, it is not for the Treasury to send officials to bail out Revenue Scotland. If it approaches us and says that it does not have enough people, it cannot do it and it is not ready, that is fine. But having discussed the matter with John Swinney and received assurances that he believes that it is in a good position to carry on taking on those functions and to do so properly, that is sufficient for me to sign the orders to hand over the powers.
2015-03-10a.147.2	TREASURY	Fiscal Support for Businesses	Mary Macleod	What fiscal steps he has taken to support businesses.
2015-03-10a.147.3	TREASURY	Fiscal Support for Businesses	Andrea Leadsom	The Government champion business. We have cut the main rate of corporation tax to 21%, the lowest in the G7, we have allocated more than £460 billion for infrastructure projects, and we have committed to unlock up to £10 billion of business finance through the British Business Bank by 2017-18.
2015-03-10a.147.4	TREASURY	Fiscal Support for Businesses	Mary Macleod	Businesses in Chiswick, Brentford, Isleworth, Osterley and Hounslow have been hugely helped by the Government through lower business rates, reduced tax, better infrastructure and two new free schools, which were announced yesterday, to help build the skills for the future. Does my hon. Friend agree that only a Conservative Government with a long-term economic plan can help make Britain the most attractive place in the world to start and grow a business?
2015-03-10a.147.5	TREASURY	Fiscal Support for Businesses	Andrea Leadsom	I completely agree with my hon. Friend. She is right that we want Britain to be the best place to start and grow a business. I am delighted for her that she has 9,600 new start-ups in her constituency, which she has fought for diligently throughout this Parliament, and that, as a result of this success, unemployment is down 38% in her constituency since 2010. I was particularly delighted to pay a visit with her to one of them, My Plumber Ltd, and to meet the wonderful Ollie, who was the apprentice there in charge.
2015-03-10a.147.6	TREASURY	Fiscal Support for Businesses	Kevin Brennan	One fiscal measure that affects business a great deal is the rate of VAT, and every Conservative Government put up VAT. In 1979, they put it up from 8% to 15%; in 1991, up to 17.5%; in 1994, on fuel and power; and in 2010, VAT was raised again to 20%. So we know what they will do, but let us give them one more chance. Will the hon. Lady rule out putting up VAT if in power after May?
2015-03-10a.147.7	TREASURY	Fiscal Support for Businesses	Andrea Leadsom	It is extraordinary. I wonder if the hon. Gentleman would like to admit that every Labour Government when they leave office leave unemployment higher than when they came in. That is the truth of the matter. The Government are sorting out the mess left by the Labour Government, which was the worst financial crisis in British peacetime.
2015-03-10a.147.8	TREASURY	Fiscal Support for Businesses	Angie Bray	Does my hon. Friend agree that, thanks to our long-term economic plan, the Government have supported businesses through cutting businesses taxes? Does she further agree that the real difference between the Government and the Labour party’s approach is that while we have been cutting taxes on businesses, it wants to put them up?
2015-03-10a.148.0	TREASURY	Fiscal Support for Businesses	Andrea Leadsom	Yes, my hon. Friend is exactly right. There is the risk under Labour of a return to an anti-business system that has already been recognised by people who are themselves trying to run businesses in the UK that are contributing to our economy. She has been assiduous in her constituency in supporting business. She has more than 8,000 new start-ups, and I was delighted to visit Clare and to meet the Ealing Mums in Business, who are doing everything that they can to build successful businesses from small beginnings, to talk to them about access to finance.
2015-03-10a.148.1	TREASURY	Fiscal Support for Businesses	William McCrea	One of the steps designed to assist businesses in Northern Ireland is the devolution of corporation tax. In light of the reneging of Sinn Fein on the introduction of welfare reform, what implications does the Minister see in the devolution of corporation tax in Northern Ireland?
2015-03-10a.148.2	TREASURY	Fiscal Support for Businesses	Andrea Leadsom	As I think the hon. Gentleman will know, we will agree to devolution for Northern Ireland if it is sustainable, and if it is felt by all sides to be a sustainable proposition.
2015-03-10a.148.4	TREASURY	Youth Employment	Graham Stuart	What assessment he has made of recent trends in the level of youth employment.
2015-03-10a.148.5	TREASURY	Youth Employment	Andrea Leadsom	This Government have taken decisive action to boost youth employment. We have been a Government who are very much on the side of young people, and the results are clear: youth employment is increasing, up by 110,000 over the past year, and the number of young people claiming jobseeker’s allowance is at its lowest level since the 1970s.
2015-03-10a.148.6	TREASURY	Youth Employment	Graham Stuart	Youth unemployment in my constituency is down by 53% since 2010. In the city of Hull, it is down by 54%. Does my hon. Friend recognise the opportunity that has been created by the growth in apprenticeships under this Government? Does she agree with the Education Committee that it would be “a mistake” for level 2 apprenticeships to be abolished for young people, as the Labour party proposes? Does she agree, on this occasion, with the TUC, which says it would be “a grave injustice”, or with the Association of Employment and Learning Providers, which says that, on apprenticeships, Labour has “got it all wrong”?
2015-03-10a.148.7	TREASURY	Youth Employment	Andrea Leadsom	My hon. Friend is right. Under this Government we have seen over 2 million new apprenticeships, and level 2 apprenticeships are absolutely vital in giving young people a chance. Young people have shared in the success of our long-term economic plan, with the UK now having the fourth highest youth employment rate in the EU and the second highest in the G7. Very importantly, young people’s wages are also on the rise, with the latest data showing that the earnings of 18 to 21-year-olds who work full time have increased by 6% over the past three years.
2015-03-10a.149.0	TREASURY	Youth Employment	Russell Brown	Yesterday I had an exchange with the Minister for Employment in which I made it abundantly clear that youth unemployment in my constituency continues to rise. She has said that the recent rise in youth unemployment is just “a tiny blip”. Does this Minister agree with that?
2015-03-10a.149.1	TREASURY	Youth Employment	Andrea Leadsom	The hon. Gentleman should surely be delighted that since 2010 youth unemployment in his constituency is down by 47%, so I cannot agree with him, and that since 2010 unemployment is down by 34%. In the past 12 months, long-term unemployment is down by 38%. Surely he should be celebrating those numbers.
2015-03-10a.149.3	TREASURY	Marriage Tax Allowances	Edward Leigh	What his policy is on the future of tax allowances related to marriage.
2015-03-10a.149.4	TREASURY	Marriage Tax Allowances	David Gauke	The Government have introduced the marriage allowance for married couples and civil partners, which takes effect from 6 April 2015 . The transferable amount has been fixed at 10% and will rise in proportion to the personal allowance.
2015-03-10a.149.5	TREASURY	Marriage Tax Allowances	Edward Leigh	More than 4 million people could benefit from the marriage allowance, for which they have been able to register since 20 February . Does my hon. Friend agree that this is about much more than just pounds or pence—it is about valuing commitment and marriage as a bedrock of society?
2015-03-10a.149.6	TREASURY	Marriage Tax Allowances	David Gauke	As the Prime Minister made very clear in the 2010 general election, it is right that we recognise marriage in the tax system, and that is precisely what we have done. As my hon. Friend rightly points out, it is now possible for people to register to be able to benefit from the transferable tax allowance.
2015-03-10a.149.7	TREASURY	Marriage Tax Allowances	Kate Green	Does the Minister consider it either fair or socially useful that money is being spent in this way when only one in four of the couples who benefit are raising children?
2015-03-10a.149.8	TREASURY	Marriage Tax Allowances	David Gauke	This is about recognising marriage within the tax system, but it should also be noted that it will benefit many low-income households, including 1 million households where tax credits are claimed.
2015-03-10a.149.10	TREASURY	North Sea Oil and Gas	Robert Smith	What steps he is taking to support jobs in the north-east of Scotland by maximising the economic recovery of North sea oil and gas. [R]
2015-03-10a.149.11	TREASURY	North Sea Oil and Gas	Danny Alexander	The Government have made significant progress on supporting the North sea oil and gas sector, including the announcements I made in December about an investment allowance and other changes, although I recognise that there are very serious ongoing problems at the moment.
2015-03-10a.150.0	TREASURY	North Sea Oil and Gas	Robert Smith	I thank the Chief Secretary to the Treasury for recognising the problems in the North sea. Does he also recognise that the job losses that have been announced predate the fall in the oil price, and that it is crucial that in the Budget we see long-term structural change for the maturity of the province?
2015-03-10a.150.1	TREASURY	North Sea Oil and Gas	Danny Alexander	I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend. I have had a number of meetings with Oil & Gas UK and representatives of the oil industry. Having set out in December the fact that the tax regime for the North sea is going to be on a declining path, recognising precisely the issues that he mentions, we have set a clear direction of travel, and the Chancellor will set out our decisions in the Budget next Wednesday. Let me reassure my hon. Friend that this Government take incredibly seriously the need to make sure that we have a fiscal regime that supports maximum economic recovery of the resources of North sea oil and gas.
2015-03-10a.150.2	TREASURY	North Sea Oil and Gas	Stewart Hosie	The Chief Secretary knows that the fundamental issue is the cost of doing business in the North sea basin. The up to 81% marginal tax rate on production is something that the Government could do something about. Given that this Chief Secretary boasted that putting up the supplementary charge was his decision, will he now apologise for that and make sure that the charge begins to be reduced in the Budget next week?
2015-03-10a.150.3	TREASURY	North Sea Oil and Gas	Danny Alexander	In fact, we made sure that the supplementary charge began to be reduced in the autumn statement in December, so the hon. Gentleman should catch up on his facts. The fact remains that the measures we are taking to support the industry—through the Wood review, the establishment of the Oil and Gas Authority, and decommissioning deeds and field allowances —have already created an environment that has seen very substantial investment in the North sea in the past few years. The point that my hon. Friend the Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith) made is right. Making sure that we have a climate for long-term investment is precisely what we are trying to do, and the hon. Gentleman will have to wait for the Budget for our decisions.
2015-03-10a.150.4	TREASURY	North Sea Oil and Gas	Anne Begg	What are the Government doing to encourage the offshore sector to co-operate and to have common standards as a better way of reducing costs in the supply chain than laying off the very people we will need when, I hope, things in the North sea begin to pick up again?
2015-03-10a.150.5	TREASURY	North Sea Oil and Gas	Danny Alexander	The hon. Lady makes an important point about co-operation in the industry. It is precisely such co-operation that has led the Wood review to recommend and the Government to create the Oil and Gas Authority. We find that particularly in respect of the sensible and low-cost use of infrastructure in the North sea, where greater co-operation between fields and so on will help to reduce costs. That is one of the early challenges that Andy Samuel is getting to grips with at the Oil and Gas Authority, and I think he has the support of the whole House in doing so.
2015-03-10a.151.1	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Ian Lavery	If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
2015-03-10a.151.2	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	Mr Speaker, I should say that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is at ECOFIN, making sure that Britain’s voice is heard in the European Union, and the Exchequer Secretary is unwell. I am sure that the whole House wishes her a speedy recovery. The core purpose of the Treasury is to ensure the stability and prosperity of the economy.
2015-03-10a.151.3	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Ian Lavery	Will the Chief Secretary confirm that the Treasury has had discussions with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Department of Energy and Climate Change with regard to UK Coal’s application for state aid for the British coal industry? What stage are the discussions actually at?
2015-03-10a.151.4	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	It would be wrong for me to go into the ongoing discussions between BIS and other Departments and the industry. However, I can certainly say that I am aware of the issues that the industry is experiencing, and a discussion on that subject is going on with the Government.
2015-03-10a.151.5	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Andrew Griffiths	Under the previous Labour Government, thousands of pubs closed and the brewing industry was taxed to the point of extinction. The Campaign for Real Ale now says that the Chancellor has saved 1,050 pubs, sold 75 million extra pints and has been the saviour of Britain’s brewing industry. Does the Chief Secretary agree that this Government have been positive for beer and pubs, and will he urge the Chancellor to keep on supporting our breweries?
2015-03-10a.151.6	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	This Government have undoubtedly been positive for beer and pubs. Many hon. Members, including my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) , have campaigned on this issue. It is of course for the Chancellor to announce the Government’s decisions in this respect—I am sure that he has not pulled all those pints himself—but it is certainly the case that the beer and pub industry is stronger in this country, as part of a stronger economy, because of the decisions that this coalition Government have so far made.
2015-03-10a.151.7	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Mary Glindon	Do the Government expect operating oil companies in receipt of tax concessions to develop contract strategies to enable UK fabricating yards to participate in large contracts with the potential to support thousands of jobs across the whole country?
2015-03-10a.151.8	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	If the hon. Lady has specific issues in mind, I would gladly engage in further discussion with her, but the steps this Government have taken—including the establishment of enterprise zones in many areas where there are fabrication yards, and measures such as electricity market reform to get offshore wind and other such production going in the UK—all support the objective that she describes and which I share. If she has further ideas on how we can pursue that, I would gladly hear them.
2015-03-10a.152.0	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Martin Vickers	The Chancellor recently highlighted the major part that my Cleethorpes constituency and the Humber estuary will play in the growing northern economy. However, much depends on continued investment in transport infrastructure. Will the Minister assure me and my constituents that that will continue as a high priority?
2015-03-10a.152.1	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	I certainly can. In the final Treasury questions of this Parliament it is worth reflecting on the fact that, despite the tough economic decisions we have had to make, this country is making the largest investment in our rail network since Victorian times and the largest investment in our road network since the 1970s, and we have a programme to roll out superfast broadband across the entire country. Those things will leave our economy with a stronger long-term growth potential, as well as having given us the best growth rates in the European Union at the moment.
2015-03-10a.152.2	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Andrew McDonald	Is it not the case that those earning more than £1 million a year have benefited from an average tax cut of up to £100,000 a year in this Parliament? Does that not illustrate that, as ever under the Tories, the mega-rich get richer and the poor get poorer—and that this time they have been aided and abetted by the Liberal Democrats?
2015-03-10a.152.3	TREASURY	Topical Questions	David Gauke	It is this Government who have dealt with disguised remuneration by which loans were never repaid, benefiting the highest earners. It is this Government who have increased the rates of stamp duty land tax on high-end properties and ensured that they are properly enforced. It is under this Government that capital gains tax has gone up so that cleaners do not pay a higher rate of tax than hedge fund managers. It is this Government who have ensured that those with the broadest shoulders bear the greatest burden, as the Institute for Fiscal Studies confirmed last week.
2015-03-10a.152.4	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Alistair Burt	Is my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary aware that in my rural constituency, businesses regard the words “long-term economic plan” with the same degree of comfort and familiarity as evensong in an Anglican church? Will she be good enough to give an assurance that, following the election, those words and the benefits that they bring will continue, not least through the expansion of broadband which is so important for rural business?
2015-03-10a.152.5	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Andrea Leadsom	It sounds as though evensong in my right hon. Friend’s constituency is a fabulous occurrence, and hopefully not just on a Sunday. He is right to point out that this Government have sought to ensure that the benefits of the economic plan are felt right across the country and that the growth is balanced, with all three major sectors—services, construction and manufacturing —growing by 2.5% or more for the first time since records began in 1990.
2015-03-10a.153.0	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Nia Griffith	We all want to see an end to big companies wriggling out of tax by offshoring profits, but what assessment has the Minister made of the impact on kitchen table digital industries, such as the sale of knitting patterns, of the way in which HMRC has implemented the new EU rules on VAT being collected in the country of sale, and what can he do about it?
2015-03-10a.153.1	TREASURY	Topical Questions	David Gauke	Those are EU rules. It was the previous Government who signed up to the principle of changing the way in which the VAT system worked, and they were right to do so. This Government have taken two measures to try to mitigate the impact on some smaller businesses. None the less, without the support of other member states, we are still faced with a change in the rules.
2015-03-10a.153.2	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Sarah Newton	Under this Government, food and drink manufacturing is a great British success story. However, our dairy farmers are being badly affected by volatile global markets. Will the Financial Secretary look favourably on proposals to implement tax averaging reforms, such as those in Ireland, to help these essential producers who contribute so much to our rural economies?
2015-03-10a.153.3	TREASURY	Topical Questions	David Gauke	I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her question; I shall take it as a Budget representation. I am sure she will understand that I cannot say any more about it at this point, other than to thank her. She has been vigorous in putting forward that case.
2015-03-10a.153.4	TREASURY	Topical Questions	William Bain	For hard-pressed taxpayers, the real test of whether the Government are committed to cracking down on tax evasion and avoidance will be whether this month’s Finance Bill contains legal penalties for breach of the general anti-abuse rule. Will the Financial Secretary tell us whether those will feature in the Finance Bill—yes or no?
2015-03-10a.153.5	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	The hon. Gentleman will have to wait for the Finance Bill to be published and to hear the Budget statement next week. He should reflect on his party’s record in office on these matters. Frankly, when the coalition Government came to office, we inherited a tax system like a Swiss cheese: it was so full of holes that tax was leaking all over the place. We have plugged a lot of those holes and there is more work to be done, but I do not think that he should give us any lectures.
2015-03-10a.153.6	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Greg Mulholland	I am sure my right hon. Friend will welcome the report by the Electrification Task Force, which is chaired by the hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones) , and praise its work. The report said that in tier 1 the Harrogate-Leeds-York line should be prioritised, but does the Minister agree that we must also put in the 1.1 mile of track to connect Yorkshire’s Leeds Bradford airport?
2015-03-10a.153.7	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	I congratulate the hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones) and my hon. Friend on the their work, and I met them recently to discuss it. There is a strong case for investment in the Harrogate-Leeds-York line and in the rail link to the airport that my hon. Friend describes. Ensuring that degree of connectivity for one of the fastest growing airports in the country, which has huge potential for growth, could also take off the roads the traffic caused by people travelling to other airports in the country. We shall be considering the matter carefully.
2015-03-10a.154.0	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Kelvin Hopkins	The Minister will have noticed the substantial depreciation of the euro in recent times, which is bound to cause damage to the British economy. When will the Government take the exchange rate seriously and seek to secure an appropriate exchange rate for sterling?
2015-03-10a.154.1	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	We take seriously the need for this country to have a set of policies that ensure the long-term health and growth of the UK economy, and the appropriate mix of fiscal policy, monetary policy and long-term investment. That is why we have the fastest growth in the United Kingdom of any advanced economy, and why there are now more than 2 million more people in work in the private sector than there were in 2010. That is a record I am proud of, and the hon. Gentleman should congratulate the Government on it.
2015-03-10a.154.2	TREASURY	Topical Questions	John Glen	When considering the allocation of LIBOR fines, will Treasury Ministers consider carefully the submission of Alabaré Christian Care in my constituency? It is seeking to construct a new veterans village in Wilton that will be transformational for veterans across Wiltshire.
2015-03-10a.154.3	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Andrea Leadsom	I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question. As he will know, the LIBOR fines imposed on banks for the appalling rigging of LIBOR are being used for mainly military charities, and a few other ideas have been put forward. I shall bear his remarks in mind and mention them to the Chancellor.
2015-03-10a.154.4	TREASURY	Topical Questions	John Cryer	Further to Question 8, what measures is the Chief Secretary taking to tackle the activities of payroll and umbrella companies that promote bogus self-employment which in turn fuels widespread tax evasion?
2015-03-10a.154.5	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	We have already announced measures to deal with intermediaries, both offshore and onshore. As the hon. Gentleman will know, a consultation on the issue is taking place at the moment, and it is important to ensure that companies cannot put in place artificial arrangements that are designed to reduce their tax bill and often have the consequence of removing important employment rights from workers. We continue to take that matter incredibly seriously.
2015-03-10a.154.6	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Neil Carmichael	Does the Chief Secretary agree that one key aspect of the long-term economic plan is investment in skills, and will he reassure the House that the Government will carry on doing that?
2015-03-10a.154.7	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	Yes I can. As this is national apprenticeship week it is worth reflecting on the fact that in this Parliament we have created more than 2 million more apprenticeships. That is a great achievement of this Government and has helped to ensure that young people have the skills they need to succeed in today’s economy. From my perspective that will continue to be a priority in the next Parliament.
2015-03-10a.155.0	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Emma Lewell-Buck	To follow up the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead (John Cryer) , it appeared from recent written answers that the Government are leaving open loopholes that see workers lose hundreds of pounds a month from rip-off umbrella companies. Why is that?
2015-03-10a.155.1	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	As I said, we are consulting on that matter and have already taken considerable action to deal with intermediaries. I am sure that more will be said about the issue in due course.
2015-03-10a.155.2	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Duncan Hames	Youth unemployment in my constituency has halved under this Government, and the Chief Secretary met some of the young people in new jobs at Anthony Best Dynamics in Bradford on Avon last year. Will he or the Chancellor accept an invitation to accompany me to one of the advanced manufacturing businesses in Chippenham which, with the support of the relevant Government programmes, can extend many more opportunities by creating jobs in 21st-century products in Chippenham?
2015-03-10a.155.3	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	I gladly accept the invitation, although time is limited. As my hon. Friend said, through visiting Anthony Best Dynamics I have seen precisely the benefits that apprenticeships can provide for young people wanting to get highly skilled jobs in the technology companies that are creating very high value added for the UK economy. The work that he has done in his constituency to promote businesses taking on apprentices is an example to the entire House.
2015-03-10a.155.4	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Dennis Skinner	Why was the Chief Secretary to the Treasury so discreet about the application for state aid for the three remaining deep mine pits in Britain? Is he aware that in February 2014 the Government took £700 million out of the mineworkers’ pension fund for themselves? That kind of money in state aid could save those three pits so that they could exhaust their reserves. Now come on—tell us what’s happening!
2015-03-10a.156.0	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Danny Alexander	I am not going to change the answer I gave to the earlier question. I appreciate the sensitivity of these matters, and I would say that this Government have taken steps, wherever we can, to support that particular industry. I am not sure that it would be appropriate for me to comment further.
2015-03-10a.156.1	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	Last but not least, Sir Oliver Heald.
2015-03-10a.156.2	TREASURY	Topical Questions	Oliver Heald	The Financial Secretary to the Treasury will be aware that Hertfordshire is a prosperous and successful county. However, it had reached the point at which growth was being compromised because the A1M was not being widened between Stevenage and Welwyn. That work has now been announced but, for the future, are the Government satisfied that they are planning such infrastructure projects far enough ahead to enable us to maintain the kind of strong economic growth that we have at the moment as a result of the long-term economic plan?
2015-03-10a.156.3	TREASURY	Topical Questions	David Gauke	I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend and fellow Hertfordshire Member of Parliament. He is absolutely right to highlight that issue. As my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury said earlier, we have in place a pipeline of road building and train improvements, the like of which we have not seen for many years. All of that will benefit Hertfordshire in particular and the United Kingdom as a whole.
2015-03-10a.157.1	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	With permission, Mr Speaker, I wish to make a statement about this Government’s troubled families programme. In 2011, the Prime Minister set a bold ambition for this Government that by the end of this Parliament we would turn around the lives of 120,000 of the country’s most troubled families. Turning their lives around meant: drastically reducing the antisocial behaviour and crime for which they were responsible; ensuring that truanting children were back attending school; and getting parents into jobs. Today, with great pride, I can announce to the House that 90% of the families we promised to help have achieved those outcomes. More than 105,000 families have had their lives turned around, and the programme still has three months left to run. I want to extend my gratitude to the army of front-line workers who have worked tirelessly with those families to bring stability back to their lives. I also want to offer my congratulations to the families who have grasped the opportunity that this programme has offered to them to end a dysfunctional and negative way of life and offer their children a better future. I also want to put on record the fact that the programme exemplifies how central Government, local government and their partner public services can successfully work together with a sense of common endeavour and shared objectives. All 152 upper-tier local councils across England, irrespective of political control, have worked closely with my Department, and it is only by working together that we have delivered this challenging programme at great pace. In 2011, I was deeply honoured when the Prime Minister asked me to lead this programme, but I was also acutely aware that its bold ambitions had eluded the efforts of previous Governments. Looking back, we can see how the success of the programme has come from its simplicity, and from the clear aims and straightforward methods that have captured the hearts and minds of public servants at all levels. I am sure that many Members of the House will know the frustration that comes from seeing how our services and systems have failed to deal with the root causes of problems and only treated, or reacted to, the symptoms. How many of us know families in our constituencies who have been failed by services but have at the same time placed a huge and disproportionate burden on those services through successive generations? Young men follow in their fathers’ footsteps into trouble; young women fall victim to abusive relationships; and families push through the revolving doors of hard-pressed services with recurring problems of addiction, violence and mental and physical ill-health. I believed that there was a better way for those hard-pressed services to operate and through the troubled families programme we have found it. Families in the programme have signed up to a plan that gets to the root cause of their problems and makes a real difference to their lives. It involves tough love and practical help from people who take a no-nonsense, persistent approach, who will not go away and will not give up, and who will not be put off by missed appointments or unanswered doors. A typical family in the programme has nine different problems to contend with. A child’s bad behaviour and truancy leads to exclusion from school and a life of petty crime. The school tries to help, but its efforts are undone by a mum who simply cannot get out of bed in the morning to ensure that her son goes to school. She suffers from stress and anxiety and drinks heavily. Why? She is in arrears on her bills and is regularly beaten up by the boy’s dad. The result is that the child’s poor prospects become entrenched and the cycle of the family’s problems continues. The key worker’s job is to break the cycle and they will prioritise what needs to change first. In this case, they will get the police and others to stop the violence and help the mum to budget better and start on a path to employment. For a while, the key worker will arrive at 7 am to ensure that she is up, making some breakfast for her son and packing him off to school. As her mental health improves and improvements grow, the key worker can step back, mentor and gradually let go. The figures we are publishing today prove beyond doubt that the approach is working for families. It also helps the communities where they live and of course delivers substantial savings for the taxpayer. The key worker has replaced the expensive swarm of services buzzing around the family that deal with individual symptoms rather than addressing the root causes. Today, my Department is releasing new information from local authorities that clearly demonstrates the savings generated by the programme. This year, Manchester estimates that for every £1 invested in family intervention, local public services receive an estimated £2.20 in savings. For Redcar and Cleveland, the figure was £1.94. For every four families helped under the programme, the equivalent of a police officer’s starting salary could be saved. In the London borough of Wandsworth during the first year of the programme, the total savings from reducing demand on the criminal justice system were nearly £1.2 million. The 70% reduction in domestic violence in the families being helped saved the borough £70,000. Salford has identified benefits to health services of £1,700 on average per family. Those savings follow a nearly 60% reduction in alcohol abuse and a 50% reduction in drug misuse in the 12 months following family intervention. If those savings were representative of all the 105,000 families who have been turned around by the programme so far, a total of £1.2 billion would be generated in gross fiscal benefits. Those gains for the public purse are reason enough for celebration, but what makes me most proud of the programme is its impact on people’s lives, especially in getting family members into work. That is no easy task when we consider that they were previously a million miles from being able to hold down any kind of job. Figures released today show that more than 10,000 adults from troubled families have moved into sustained work. I want to take this opportunity to express my gratitude to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, who placed 150 of his jobcentre advisers in local troubled families teams. They have worked wonders in some really challenging cases. This approach works for taxpayers and the families involved in the programme, and this Government will build on that success. I am delighted that we have secured cross-Government support for an additional £200 million of funding for an expansion, to work with 400,000 more families from 2015 to 2020. That work has already started ahead of time in two thirds of areas. I would like to end by referring to a letter from a head teacher in Leicestershire to her troubled families team. She confesses to being a “notoriously grumpy Head Teacher on welfare issues”, but says that the troubled families team is “something quite different” that she “can’t praise enough.” Why is that? It is because, “for once, everybody seems to know what is going on”. She concludes by saying: “I have never come across anything quite like this before.” Neither have I. That is why I am genuinely honoured to have led this remarkable, life-changing programme for the Government, and why I am delighted that it is being expanded to help more troubled families across the country. I commend this statement to the House.
2015-03-10a.159.0	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Hilary Benn	May I begin by thanking the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement, and for his personal commitment to providing support to local authorities up and down the country that are working with the most excluded families through the troubled families programme? It is not often that we in this House pay tribute to public servants, and we do not do it as much as we should, so I would like to thank Louise Casey for the leadership she has shown and all of the staff working in all of the projects for their extraordinary dedication, patience and commitment. Their skill in, above all, building trust with the families they work with is absolutely fundamental if together they are to succeed. We on the Opposition Benches support this important work. As the Secretary of State has generously acknowledged, the previous Labour Government started the family intervention project, and a future Labour Government would want to see this work continue and go from strength to strength. As the Secretary of State will know, a number of local authorities and Labour pushed for the original criteria to be broadened to enable local authorities to provide support to those families most in need and to ensure that there was proper long-term follow-up to see whether families could maintain the progress that had been made. I welcome the fact that the Government listened to those representations and made the necessary changes. It is clear that we need to provide hands-on support to families with multiple complex needs, in order to help them to break cycles of disadvantage. It is also clear that we need to move away from trying to contain problems, at great expense, towards trying to prevent them in the first place. What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the concentration in the most deprived communities of families taking part in the troubled families programme? I ask that because we know that, under this Government, households living in areas that rank in the 10 most deprived communities have seen their local authority spending power reduced by 16 times as much as those in the 10 least deprived communities. Demands on children’s services are increasing and the figures show that local authorities are doing their best to protect them. However, the National Audit Office has found that, between 2010-11 and 2014-15, budgeted spending on children’s social care actually fell by 4.3% on average in authorities with the highest cuts in Government funding, compared with real-terms increases of 14.8% in authorities with the lowest cuts. How is that going to help? Last August, it was announced that the troubled families programme would be expanded to work with 400,000 more families from 2015 to 2020, with funding of £200 million for 2015-16, but the Secretary of State has just said that he has secured cross-Government support and an additional £200 million for its expansion from 2015 to 2020. Will he confirm whether that £200 million is for 2015-16 or for the whole period from 2015 to 2020? The Secretary of State referred to the 10,000 adults who have moved into sustained work, which is a great achievement, but it still leaves more than 100,000 families where that has not happened. Would it not help those families if we were to guarantee a job, as Labour is proposing, to every adult who has been out of work for more than two years and every young person who has been out of work for more than a year? The Secretary of State rightly talked about the problems that a number of these families have in paying bills. How many troubled families are being hit by the profoundly unfair bedroom tax? Surely, to help them, that tax should be scrapped, as we have committed to do? Why are the Government so intent on penalising people on the lowest incomes, and how many of those families currently rely on food banks to help feed their children? Over this Parliament, the Secretary of State has spoken regularly about the number of families who have been turned around. However, within the original programme, a family could be so classified if they reduced the level of crime committed by just a third. Will he confirm whether such families are counted in the total he gave today? In 2011, the Prime Minister said that troubled families were costing the state an estimated £9 billion a year. However, in his statement today, the Secretary of State said that if these savings were representative of all 105,000 families so far, it would generate a total of £1.2 billion in gross fiscal benefits. Can he square those two figures and confirm whether these savings are in fact being achieved? As he will be only too aware, demonstrating savings will be really important for securing future funding for the programme from other parts of Whitehall. We know that intensive support really can help families transform their lives. Raising children can be challenging and we can all do with help and advice at times. We support the programme precisely because the local authorities that are implanting it on the ground are convinced that it makes a difference. However, the Government also have a responsibility to help all families, whether in difficulty or not, in other ways. Insecurity, zero-hours contracts, a lack of affordable housing and high rents are real concerns for them. If we are really to help all Britain’s families, we need a Government who will do something about those things as well.
2015-03-10a.160.0	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	I am most grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his comments. In particular, I would like to endorse his views on Louise Casey. It has been a privilege over the past five years to get to know a number of senior civil servants, but none have I enjoyed working with more than Louise, who is definitely one of a kind. She has been an absolute joy to work with. I also recognise that none of this could have been achieved without all-party support. The right hon. Gentleman made a number of points on how we can demonstrate success and square the £1.2 billion with the £9 billion. He knows as well as anybody that this is notoriously difficult territory, because Governments of all types are absolutely terrible at measuring outcomes. We have made a start—he might have had an opportunity to look at the research—by looking at seven exemplar authorities and extrapolating the findings to produce some financial analysis. To answer his questions, I think that it is only fair to have that audited independently. As he will know, we are due to have a very comprehensive audit of the programme. I am confident that the exemplar authorities indicate what has been achieved. I think that I have been conservative—no pun intended—in estimating what can be achieved. The right hon. Gentleman made a number of points about spending power. The point needs to be made that the Government are spending the most in the most deprived areas; we are spending an awful lot less on prosperous areas. I remind him, with great humility, that under the system in place before this Government came in, we were throwing money at the problem and achieving precisely nothing. By addressing some of the social ills, dealing with the problems, shoulder to shoulder with Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat councils, we have been able to achieve these benefits. It so happens that it is cheaper, but it is actually better and more caring, because we are not throwing people away, condemning them to a life on benefits.
2015-03-10a.161.0	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Crispin Blunt	Having been Minister for Criminal Justice at the birth of this programme, and having seen it operating on the front line in my constituency since, may I join my right hon. Friend in congratulating Louise Casey? I congratulate him on the leadership he has given, along with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, in bringing this home. I slightly regret the tone taken by the shadow Secretary of State, which I think disguises a recognition that the programme has really worked by bringing all the agencies together, which is something he and I saw back in 2000 when we served together on a Select Committee. I ask my right hon. Friend to ensure that we learn the lessons that will emerge from the first four years of the programme and see that it carries on in the excellent way it has started.
2015-03-10a.161.1	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	I am most grateful to my hon. Friend. It is of course important that we learn the lessons of the programme. I think that it has been quite clear that by keeping things as simple as possible, by looking very carefully at the different criteria and by having a completely straightforward approach—some Members have suggested that we might be fiddling the figures by reducing crime, although reducing crime seems to me to be pretty important—we have kept the programme transparent, so people can actually see it. I believe that we have treated everyone in this process with respect, particularly the troubled families.
2015-03-10a.162.0	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Clive Betts	The Communities and Local Government Committee has been very supportive of the whole approach on troubled families. However, when the Secretary of State announced his expansion of the programme in 2013, the Committee pointed out that the increase in Government funding was not in proportion to the increase in the number of families to be helped. Does he believe that local authorities can be as successful in future, given the reduction in the amount that central Government spend per family? Given that savings to one public body can be a cost to another as part of the programme, will not real success in the end be the roll-out of whole-place community budgets, so that a proper account can be taken with a total approach to public expenditure in an area? How does he see that being rolled out alongside the troubled families programme?
2015-03-10a.162.1	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	The hon. Gentleman makes a very interesting point. It is usual for a Government to aim for the low-hanging fruit when starting such a programme, doing the easy things first before going on to those that are more difficult. We did exactly the reverse by starting with the most difficult families. The troubled families involved in the extended programme have nothing like the complex needs of those in the first tranche, so I think that it will be easier, cheaper and better when we start dealing with them. With regard to money coming in, he might be interested to know that, in Sheffield, there were 1,680 troubled families over that period, 100% of whom have been turned around, with expenditure of £6.6 million. In Leeds, there were 2,190 troubled families, 100% of whom have been turned around, with expenditure of £7.79 million.
2015-03-10a.162.2	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Annette Brooke	I, too, congratulate the Secretary of State, Louise Casey and all those associated with the programme, not least the participants. How does he envisage the lifestyle changes being sustained as we move on to this very welcome and massive expansion of the programme?
2015-03-10a.162.3	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	We need to be absolutely clear that we are almost certainly not turning out model citizens. We are, however, giving children from troubled families the opportunity to have a better chance of success. That is something we are keen to monitor, check and make sure happens. In that way, we have an opportunity to break the cycle.
2015-03-10a.162.4	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Ann Coffey	I thank the Secretary of State for his statement. The programme in Stockport is very impressive in bringing together local agencies to help families. He will be aware that there is an under-reporting of child abuse, child sexual exploitation and other forms of abuse in many of these families. Does he agree that one of the outcomes, in measuring the success of the programme, is the prevention of child abuse and child sexual exploitation in these families?
2015-03-10a.162.5	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	The hon. Lady is the author of a very good report on the subject of child sexual exploitation, and she and I discussed this matter at a seminar last week at Downing street. She makes a very reasonable point. I think the reason the programme has had a fair amount of success is that it does not deal with this problem through social services or the benefits agency alone. There have to be different disciplines in the room. The same applies to tackling child sexual exploitation. Social work is very well set up and very good at dealing with child sexual exploitation within a family; when the problem involves organised crime, it becomes more difficult to deal with. I think the point she made at the seminar is this: who would have thought that we would need to regulate taxis and the night-time economy to deal with child sexual exploitation? A broader approach will bring much better co-ordination and the greatest chance of success. I agree with her.
2015-03-10a.163.0	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Charlie Elphicke	I, too, congratulate the Secretary of State on his vision, persistence and leadership in seeing through this very important programme that helps to change lives and transform people’s prospects. Will he tell the House how many children have benefited from this programme and will now be able to fulfil their true and fullest potential?
2015-03-10a.163.1	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	Time will tell how many children will benefit in the end. Getting children back into school and attending three successive terms makes a big difference. In my hon. Friend’s area, the total number of families we would describe as troubled is 2,560. Some 80% have been turned around. So far, just short of £10 million has been expended in that process.
2015-03-10a.163.2	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Frank Field	I congratulate the Secretary of State, Louise Casey and the families who have turned their lives around. On behalf of my constituents, many of whom now have a more peaceful existence, may I also, through him, thank the front-line workers who have brought about these changes? In “Feeding Britain”, the cross-party inquiry into hunger in this country, the Secretary of State may recall that, although we drew attention to those families who simply did not have enough money to feed their children, there were other scallywags who could not be bothered to feed their children. Is it possible for him to confirm that schools, which prevent those children from being hungry, could in the next stage have the right to refer families directly to the troubled families unit?
2015-03-10a.163.3	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	It works, I think, remarkably well now. The right hon. Gentleman will recall that in the main part of my statement I referred to a head teacher from Leicestershire. It makes a big difference if we involve everyone. Sadly, I have not visited Birkenhead in this process—I know that 80% of the 910 troubled families there have been turned around, with £3.3 million expended—but I was fairly close by, to look at the team in Chester. It is the most remarkable thing to see a whole bunch of people from different disciplines sitting down together, including representatives of firefighters, who play an important part in picking up intelligence and information.
2015-03-10a.163.4	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Mark Pawsey	The families supported by this programme are often affected by multiple problems, which are then responded to by multiple agencies. Is the success of the scheme not due to the ability of Louise Casey and her team to cut across the previous silo mentality and join up the support that has enabled lives to be changed?
2015-03-10a.164.0	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	I agree entirely with my hon. Friend, who should know that there are 805 troubled families in his local authority. Some 99% of them have been turned around, with an expenditure of just slightly more than £2 million. Louise Casey is a remarkable woman, but this could not have been achieved by her presence and determination alone, formidable though they are. We are bringing people along and they are getting the opportunity to do something about the process. I have seen an enormous sense of leadership in different authorities right across the country, because they can now do something about the problem.
2015-03-10a.164.1	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	John Healey	I welcome the announcement of the future funding for this programme, but the Secretary of State failed to answer my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) and say whether the £200 million is for 2015-16 or the full five years of the next Parliament. On current funding, the Secretary of State has been withholding from Rotherham council about £750,000 in troubled families and transformation award funding. Given the special circumstances and the challenges we face, will he now release that funding to Rotherham?
2015-03-10a.164.2	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	As far as the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency is concerned, there are two local authorities. Barnsley, with 645 troubled families, has achieved a 95% turnaround, which has cost slightly more than £2 million. Rotherham, with 730 troubled families, has achieved a 89% turnaround, which, again, has cost slightly more than £2 million. He makes a really interesting point: even in that sea of dysfunction, the work with troubled families has been very successful. I am delighted to tell the right hon. Gentleman that I have released the money. The money will go to Rotherham today.
2015-03-10a.164.3	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Henry Smith	I sincerely thank my right hon. Friend for his leadership of this project, which has helped to turn around the lives of 1,165 families in West Sussex. Will he join me in sincerely thanking the workers in my constituency who have made such a positive difference to individuals and to our community as a whole?
2015-03-10a.164.4	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	I think the House is divided into those who know exactly the number of troubled families in their areas and those who do not. I confirm that my hon. Friend’s arithmetic is absolutely correct. I also confirm that the improvement is entirely due to the enormous hard work of the people in his area determined to make a difference.
2015-03-10a.164.5	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Meg Munn	This is an important and successful approach. It is the kind of approach that I took when I first started my social work career more than 30 years ago and that, in those days, many social work staff took. One of the reasons why silos developed was the pressure on budgets. Given that many local authorities have tried to protect children’s services but they continue to be under threat, how will the Secretary of State ensure that services, which are preventive and help troubled families through this programme and children’s services, continue and are given priority, so that we do not go backwards, whether with children’s services or troubled families?
2015-03-10a.165.0	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	The hon. Lady’s analysis is good. I think there has been too much silo building taking place inside local government. It has been almost like, to mix a metaphor, laagering the wagons. That has been a mistake. It is not possible to deal with something as complex as troubled families by relying solely on social work or a children’s department. It involves many other agencies. We get change in government when we deal with issues. We tend not to work terribly well when we become obsessed with governance.
2015-03-10a.165.1	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Barry Sheerman	The Secretary of State deserves praise for taking this originally Labour policy and pursuing it energetically to this stage, and on any other day, I would welcome it and celebrate it with him unreservedly, but this is the day when Her Majesty’s inspectorate, Ofsted, revealed that two thirds of children’s services departments are in a dire situation. Children in this country are exposed to great danger, and departments up and down the country are at risk because of the cuts to local government finance. Will he put that in context and please come back to the House to tell us what he is going to do about it?
2015-03-10a.165.2	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	When the hon. Gentleman decides to give praise, I sincerely I hope that I am here to see it, but I think that it is some distance in the future. Given that the shadow Chancellor has made it absolutely clear that there is no additional money for local government, the hon. Gentleman’s comments ring rather hollow. Had he read the report carefully, he would have seen that it specifically states that our approach to troubled families offers them a future and the best way of doing things, and he should be aware that, in Kirklees, he has 1,115 troubled families and that 88% of them have been turned around, with an expenditure of just short of £4.5 million.
2015-03-10a.165.3	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	William McCrea	The savings the Secretary of State has mentioned are welcome, but surely the scheme’s value should be measured by its impact on individual lives and its success in lifting families out of hopelessness, bringing them into sustainable work and giving them hope for the future. I welcome that, but what consultation or discussions about the scheme has he had with the devolved Administrations?
2015-03-10a.165.4	TREASURY	Troubled Families Programme	Eric Pickles	We have kept the devolved Administrations completely informed of what we are doing, and I would urge them to take this up. It is clear that the project works, and I think that we could see benefits across the piece. I absolutely endorse what the hon. Gentleman says about the proof being life change—the money is great and the savings are wonderful, but it is the changed lives that we are after.
2015-03-10a.166.1	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on trade unions in the civil service. Trade unions can play an important role in the modern workplace. Some important reforms implemented under the coalition Government, such as changes to the civil service compensation scheme and public sector pensions, were the subject of extended and constructive discussions with a range of public sector trade unions, and I am grateful to union leaders for the forward-looking and thoughtful way in which they have engaged with the need for reform. However, further reforms were needed to how the unions operated within the civil service, and I want to update the House on progress. Facility time describes the arrangement whereby union officials and representatives have paid time off for trade union duties and activities. Properly controlled and monitored, this can assist with the rapid resolution of local disputes and grievances, but five years ago in the civil service, it was neither controlled nor monitored. We found that thousands of civil servants were paid, sometimes including travel costs and expenses, to attend union conferences. We found that more than 200 civil servants were being paid to work full time on union business. Several had been promoted, one of them twice, without ever doing the job for which they were employed. The total cost to taxpayers of trade union facility time taken by these officials and the thousands of other part-time representatives was a staggering £36 million a year. Unacceptable at any time, this was particularly intolerable at a time when the coalition Government were making difficult decisions to get the country’s finances back on track. Facility time in the civil service is now rigorously monitored and reported. Now, unless specifically authorised by a Minister, all trade union representatives must spend at least half their time doing the civil service job for which they were employed. Gone is the automatic paid time off to attend seaside union conferences. Today I can tell the House that the cost of trade union facility time has dropped by nearly 75%, from £36 million in 2011 to just over £10 million now, saving taxpayers £26 million a year. The cost has fallen from 0.26% of pay bill to just 0.07% for the latest rolling year to date—well below the benchmark we set of 0.1%. I can also reveal that the number of full-time trade union officials on the public’s payroll has fallen from 200 in 2011 to just eight today. With the civil service now over one fifth smaller—like for like—than it was in 2010, I expect the overall number of representatives to continue to fall over the coming years. Check-off is the practice where the employer collects trade union subscriptions from payroll on behalf of the union, and decisions on whether this should continue are delegated to individual Departments. The civil service management code requires Departments to recover the cost of check-off from the unions, which only two Departments were doing, so the head of the civil service has written to permanent secretaries of Departments where check-off remains to remind them of this obligation. So far, eight Departments have served notice to the trade unions that they intend to remove check-off: Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, the Ministry of Defence, the Home Office, the Department for Communities and Local Government, the Department for International Development, the Department for Work and Pensions, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Others have started the consultation process to allow this to happen. I believe that this change will enable unions to build a much more direct relationship with their members, without the need for the relationship to be intermediated by the employer. Taken together, these reforms have made a considerable contribution to modernising Departments’ relationships with their trade unions—reforms that were long overdue—and I commend the statement to the House.
2015-03-10a.167.0	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Hon. Members	What was the point of that?
2015-03-10a.167.1	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Mr Speaker	Well, it was apparently judged worthy of an oral statement.
2015-03-10a.167.2	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Lucy Powell	I thank the Minister for advanced sight of the statement—it is good to see that at least this member of the Cabinet is not ducking difficult questions in Parliament today. It is election time, so we have a Tory Minister coming to the House as part of a pre-election union-bashing exercise. There is absolutely nothing new in this statement, so one wonders what his motives are. The Government have a clear strategy towards public servants up and down the country: “The Government do not value the work you do and are hellbent on disfranchising you and weakening your rights at work.” Government Members, especially those in marginal seats, should be worried about the impact this is having on public sector voters in their constituencies. One has to ask whether this so-called statement is just a smokescreen for a Prime Minister running scared of a debate about the future of our country and a Chancellor whose economic plans threaten £70 billion of cuts that would take us back to a time before there was even an NHS. The right hon. Gentleman is a reasonable man, and I support what the Government are doing on many aspects of civil service reform, but I will not support the steps he has taken under the name of trade union reform, which have resulted in souring relations, low staff morale and unnecessary industrial action, and have scuppered some of his otherwise valiant attempts to change how government is run. Facility time is an important resource not just for union members and employees but for the employer and, in this case, the taxpayer. Labour is clear that facility time is not political time; where well deployed and not abused, it reduces many human resources costs to a company, such as by reducing the number of disputes going to an employment tribunal, recruitment costs and the number of days off sick and workplace injuries. That is why some of the biggest companies, such as Rolls-Royce and Jaguar Land Rover, support facility time—because it is part of an effective HR strategy and a productive workforce. Of course, we support genuine attempts to eradicate abuse, but the Government’s rhetoric tells a different story—one that is more about their political ideology than good accounting. Check-off is another example. Many major private employers use it: in construction, there is Balfour Beatty; in pharmaceuticals, there is AstraZeneca; in manufacturing, there is BAE Systems, GKN and Rolls-Royce. All of these private sector companies recognise its benefits, but unsurprisingly this Conservative-led Government have done everything they can to end check-off. Given that the cost of check-off is relatively low and that most unions are happy to pay the cost of administering it themselves, it is clear that this is another stage in the long campaign to weaken trade unions and disfranchise their members. Would it not have been better to give the trade unions and their tens of thousands of members across government proper and ample time to move members on to a direct debit system, which I am sure we all agree is more sustainable in the long-term? That is what we will do, and I want to put on record that when we win in May, we will ensure that this is made possible across all Departments. The Minister has come to this House today with his Lynton Crosby route 1 election strategy: bash the unions and duck the leaders’ debates. Hard-pressed public sector workers will see this for what it is, and they know that they deserve better than this.
2015-03-10a.168.0	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	It is lovely to see the hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell) taking time off from her pressing duties of holding the Labour party’s election campaign together. It is good to have her here. I thank her for her gracious support for the majority of what we do. It is important to stress that much of what we have done on civil service reform has commanded widespread support across the political spectrum. I am grateful to her and her predecessors for the constructive way in which they have done that —[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) makes a comment that is rather less graceful than his colleague.
2015-03-10a.168.1	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	John McDonnell	It was me.
2015-03-10a.168.2	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	It is very hard to differentiate. Let me deal head on with the hon. Lady’s points. She says that this is an attack on public servants, but it is absolutely the contrary. She talks as if this is an attack on union facility time. It is not. I said in my statement—she might have listened to it; she had it in advance—that I supported the use of facility time. Facility time for trade union duties is protected by law. Trade union duties—the resolution of disputes and grievances—are important, and the presence of trade union officials and representatives within the workplace can be helpful in achieving that. What we are concerned with is the abuse and the use of paid time off in facility time for large numbers of civil servants to attend their union conferences with their expenses paid at the public expense. That is not acceptable. That is what we have called time on. I know that the hon. Lady and her colleagues do not like it, and we know what the reason is. The reason is perfectly simple: it is because the Labour party is paid for and puppet-mastered by the trade unions. She should come clean and say that the Labour party election campaign that she is trying to hold together and conduct is paid for by exactly the trade union leaders who have no doubt written the script that she has read out to the House today.
2015-03-10a.169.0	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Mark Pawsey	The practices that the Minister described as seeing on his arrival at the Cabinet Office in 2010 will have come as a complete shock to my constituents. May I tell him that my constituents will very much support the steps he has taken to ensure fair use of union time by officials?
2015-03-10a.169.1	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	My hon. Friend is completely right. To be honest, it was a complete shock to us to see how much this system had been abused, and how little effort was made by our predecessors to count and control the costs of what was happening. When Opposition Members say that this is an attack on public servants, the truth is that public servants would much rather have this money spent on public services, which is their vocation, than on supporting trade union officials at the taxpayers’ expense.
2015-03-10a.169.2	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	John McDonnell	We are going to have to develop some criteria for providing statements to this House, because this is a complete waste of the House’s time. The Minister needs to get up to speed: the Public and Commercial Services Union has never been affiliated to the Labour party and has never funded it, so he can drop these accusations. This is all about union busting, so I want to know what investigation took place into the union-busting strategy within HMRC, where leaked reports said that trade unionists were to be victimised and the union to be broken within that department. What did the right hon. Gentleman do about that?
2015-03-10a.169.3	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	First, I never said that about the PCS. I know it is not affiliated. The PCS dislikes the Labour party nearly as much as it dislikes us. Secondly, when it comes to attacks on public servants, the hon. Gentleman’s attack on hard-working public servants in HMRC—the management of HMRC, those senior hard-working officials who have decided in conducting their vocation of public service that check-off should be discontinued—is disgraceful.
2015-03-10a.169.4	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Stephen McPartland	Does my right hon. Friend agree that unions can perform an important role in the workplace, but that the creation of a so-called super union would damage the perception of the independence of civil servants and that many would wish not to join such a union?
2015-03-10a.169.5	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	I saw a report this morning suggesting that there was a plan, not yet divulged to the public, for the PCS to be swallowed up by Unite. Civil service political impartiality is an essential part of the way in which our system of government works.For the largest civil service union to be controlled by the same puppet-master and paymaster that controls Labour would be a matter— [Interruption]— of very considerable concern—
2015-03-10a.169.6	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Mr Speaker	Order. When I say the Minister is finished, let it be clear. It is no good him sitting there shrugging. When I say he is finished, he is finished. It is important not to waste the time of the House. It is beneath the level of a Minister.
2015-03-10a.170.0	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Nick Brown	Government Departments offer a range of check-off services to their employees, including deductions for membership fees, for private sporting clubs, for private clubs more generally and even for private medical schemes. What is it that makes the payments of trade union dues exceptional? Why would any employer want to withdraw this from its own employees?
2015-03-10a.170.1	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	As the right hon. Gentleman, who is knowledgeable on this subject, knows, many employers have taken exactly this step. Many unions have sought to withdraw from check-off arrangements themselves, because they take the view that a modern union in a modern workplace should have a direct relationship with their members, not intermediated by the employer. Check-off dates from an era when many people did not have bank accounts and direct debit did not exist. It exists now, and many unions take the view, and indeed the PCS has said, that the easiest way to collect their dues is through direct debit.
2015-03-10a.170.2	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Charlie Elphicke	Will the Minister join me in congratulating the TaxPayers Alliance on its important work which shows that £100 million of public money is wasted on facility time? Does he share my concern that a PCS-Unite merger would undermine our democracy and mean that the Labour party would be even more bought by the unions than it is today?
2015-03-10a.170.3	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	I make the point again that the perception of political impartiality in the civil service is fundamental to our system of government. That should not be imperilled in any way. My hon. Friend is completely right to draw attention to the much wider scale of facility time and the cost borne by the taxpayer—money that would be better spent in the delivery of front-line public services on which vulnerable people depend. That is something that all public authorities should be looking at.
2015-03-10a.170.4	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	David Winnick	Is the Minister aware that all he needed to say today was quite simple: Tory Ministers are continuing with their spite and vendetta against trade unions? This is nothing different from what has occurred previously.
2015-03-10a.170.5	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	That was not really a question, Mr Speaker, but by way of response, most public servants and most members of the public and the people who use public services would prefer the money to be spent on the delivery of public services, not on the delivery of trade union salaries.
2015-03-10a.170.6	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	John Healey	This statement is called “Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)”, so will the Minister correct himself and the record and confirm that none of the civil service unions is affiliated to the Labour party or pays towards it? Rolls-Royce, Tesco, Virgin Media, Odeon Cinemas, Jaguar Land Rover —some of our biggest and best British companies—work with trade unions, recognise trade unions, and offer check- off to trade union members and facility time to their representatives. Why are the Government not dealing with their staff and unions in the same decent, modern way?
2015-03-10a.171.0	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	I support the use of trade union time, but it must be controlled and monitored, and it must not be abused. I also support the presence of trade unions in the workplace, and I personally have worked very closely with them. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury and I spent 12 months in productive discussions with the TUC and public sector trade unions when we were considering public sector pension reform, and we made a number of changes to reflect the concerns of the unions that were prepared to engage with us. I need no lectures about the importance of engagement with the unions, but the arrangements should be controlled and modernised, and the right way for that to be done is the way that I have described.
2015-03-10a.171.1	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	David Anderson	I have seriously tried to understand the rationale for what the Minister has announced. It appears that the management were not controlling the check-off arrangements properly, because the unions would have paid the costs willingly, but those costs were not paid. It also appears that the management could have monitored the difference between facility time for activities and facility time for duties, but did not do so. That suggests a failure in senior management. As for attendance at conferences, it seems that trade unions will still be paid if they hold their annual conferences in Newcastle, Glasgow, Birmingham or Liverpool, because the Minister mentioned only seaside conferences. The truth is that this is nothing more than another attempt to find the bogeyman whom the Conservatives have tried to find for the last five years. They want another Arthur Scargill so that they can try to rattle a can in the next few weeks. That is what this is all about.
2015-03-10a.171.2	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	Given that Opposition Members apparently do not think the statement should have been made, they are finding plenty to say about it. Indeed, we are having a good and productive debate. It is important for the issues to be debated, because they do matter. As I said, I take my relationship with trade unions very seriously. I continue to chair the public services forum which was set up under the last Government. We engage with each other very fully, and I am happy to say that I have warm relationships with a number of trade union leaders.
2015-03-10a.172.0	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Helen Goodman	I am probably the only Member of Parliament who is a former branch secretary of the First Division Association, and I think that the Minister’s attempt to divide junior from senior officials is wholly misconceived. It reminds me of the time when Mrs Thatcher kicked the trade unions out of GCHQ. Why has the Minister chosen this moment to crack down on check-off? Has he done so because the Office for Budget Responsibility has forecast a 1 million reduction in the number of public servants, and he wants to weaken the unions before that happens?
2015-03-10a.172.1	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	The hon. Lady’s mind is more elaborate than mine. We have looked at this in a perfectly sensible, straightforward way. We want trade unions in the civil service—and in this context I am talking only about the civil service—to engage in a sensible, modern fashion, and we want public money to be deployed in the delivery of public services rather than the delivery of trade union officials’ salaries.
2015-03-10a.172.2	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Michael Weir	The Minister said that Departments were entitled to recover the costs of check-off from the unions, and rattled off a list of Departments that were ending check-off. Have any of those Departments made any attempt to negotiate with the unions on the costs of check-off, or does the Minister simply want to get rid of check-off altogether?
2015-03-10a.172.3	TREASURY	Trade Union Reform (Civil Service)	Francis Maude	For many years, the civil service management code has obliged Departments to recover the costs of check-off from the unions, but only two have been doing so, namely the Ministry of Defence and HMRC. Check-off will remain in place in a number of Departments, and the head of the civil service has very properly written to their permanent secretaries telling them that they should rectify the position.
2015-03-11b.277.4	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Parties: Donations and Loans	Naomi Long	What progress she has made on her consultation with the Electoral Commission on the transparency of donations and loans to political parties in Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.277.5	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Parties: Donations and Loans	Andrew Murrison	The whole House will have been deeply saddened by the passing of Lord Molyneaux of Killead. James Molyneaux was a distinguished second world war veteran and a fine parliamentarian who served Northern Ireland with great distinction for more than four decades, both in this House and the other place. We are committed to ensuring the maximum transparency in party funding in Northern Ireland that the prevailing security situation allows, and progress has been made in detailed discussions with the Electoral Commission on finalising the new arrangements. I have spoken with the electoral commissioner, and I am confident that the necessary draft legislation will be ready to lay early in the next Parliament.
2015-03-11b.277.6	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Parties: Donations and Loans	Naomi Long	I add my condolences and those of my party to those expressed by the Minister to the family, friends and former colleagues of Lord Molyneaux. During the passage of the Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2014, an undertaking was given here that last October the security situation would be reviewed again with a view to lifting the secrecy pertaining to party political donations. What progress has been made in that regard?
2015-03-11b.277.7	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Parties: Donations and Loans	Andrew Murrison	The hon. Lady is right that during the passage of the Act we discussed a review of the security situation and amending the measure accordingly. It is our aspiration to have full transparency in Northern Ireland, as we do in Great Britain. At the moment, our judgment is that the security situation does not warrant it and that we cannot take that risk, but we will keep the matter under constant review.
2015-03-11b.278.0	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Parties: Donations and Loans	Andrew Robathan	While looking at the transparency of donations to political parties, will my hon. Friend ask the National Crime Agency and the Chief Constable, when they are investigating organised crime, especially things such as fuel laundering in the border area, particularly South Armagh, to look carefully at the destination of funds arising from organised crime, given that the people taking part in crime—
2015-03-11b.278.1	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Parties: Donations and Loans	Mr Speaker	Order. The right hon. Gentleman will resume his seat. I was indulgent towards him in not taking account of the fact that he has Question 8, but the substance of his question just now has nothing to do with Question 1.
2015-03-11b.278.2	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Parties: Donations and Loans	Jeffrey M Donaldson	I take this opportunity to pay tribute to my predecessor, Lord Molyneaux of Killead, KBE, who served in this House as the Member for South Antrim from 1970 until 1983 and then from 1983 to 1997 as the Member for the new constituency of Lagan Valley. He is fondly remembered by my constituents. He was the consummate parliamentarian and provided strong leadership in very dark days in Northern Ireland. He will be fondly remembered and missed by many, and our thoughts and prayers are with his family. The Secretary of State and the Minister will be aware that Sinn Fein raises millions of pounds by various means each year for its electoral campaigns. There is a clear disparity in political party funding in Northern Ireland, yet Sinn Fein Members continue to draw hundreds of thousands of pounds in allowances from this House, despite not taking their seats. When will the Government address this disparity?
2015-03-11b.278.3	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Parties: Donations and Loans	Andrew Murrison	The right hon. Gentleman will know that that is a matter for the House, not me. It was last determined in 2006, and I would not wish to trespass further on what is the prerogative of the House.
2015-03-11b.278.5	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	William Bain	When she plans to make a progress report on the Government’s economic pact for Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.278.6	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Mary Glindon	When she plans to make a progress report on the Government’s economic pact for Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.278.7	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Theresa Villiers	An annual progress report on the economic pact was published last July. The range of items so far delivered include improvements to business access to finance; funding projects secured from the Green Investment Bank; the continuation of 100% assisted area status for Northern Ireland; and a record year for inward investment following the G8 and follow-up investment conference.
2015-03-11b.278.8	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	William Bain	With one in six people in Northern Ireland on low pay and intergenerational poverty remaining stubbornly high, should not the Government be getting a move on to raise the minimum wage to at least £8 an hour and get as many people as possible on to the living wage to make this a recovery in living standards for all the people of Northern Ireland?
2015-03-11b.279.0	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Theresa Villiers	The hon. Gentleman will be aware that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor said he would like to see increases in the minimum wage. Also, we are cutting taxes for those on the lowest incomes. We have cut taxes for 670,000 people in Northern Ireland, and those on the minimum wage have had their income tax bills halved. We have also seen unemployment in Northern Ireland fall for the 25th consecutive month—it has fallen by 1,700—giving many more people the security and reassurance of a pay packet.
2015-03-11b.279.1	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Mary Glindon	Will the Secretary of State meet the Northern Ireland union leaders, as I did recently, so that she can understand the frustrations of squeezed teachers, bus drivers and health workers, and praise their vital work rather than condemn them for being forced to vote for industrial action?
2015-03-11b.279.2	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Theresa Villiers	I have met trade union groups on various occasions, including in Northern Ireland, and I am of course hugely supportive of the work done by our public servants and our front-line workers. It is important that the whole public sector takes part in the austerity programme, and the Government are doing everything they can to put our public finances right to ensure that we can continue to provide the best possible public services for the country.
2015-03-11b.279.3	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Nigel Mills	What impact does the Secretary of State think another round of stalemate at Stormont will have on measures to attract investment and encourage growth in Northern Ireland?
2015-03-11b.279.4	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Theresa Villiers	There is no doubt that the announcement by Sinn Fein on Monday was a significant setback for the Stormont House agreement, but it is inevitable that there will be bumps in the road with agreements of this nature. That has been the case in the past. I will be working hard to get things back on track and to help the parties get this matter resolved. Political stability is, of course, crucial when it comes to attracting inward investment. That is one of the many reasons why we need to press ahead with implementing the Stormont House agreement.
2015-03-11b.279.5	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Nigel Dodds	Does the Secretary of State accept that people in Northern Ireland and those who observe the Northern Ireland political scene are stunned, bewildered—and, indeed, angry—at what Sinn Fein has done in reneging on its agreement on welfare reform, without any good reason whatsoever? Does the Secretary of State wish to spell out now from the Dispatch Box the implications for corporation tax and other issues of the Stormont House agreement not proceeding? It is clear that Sinn Fein is putting its own narrow party interests ahead of vulnerable people and the entire community in Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.279.6	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Theresa Villiers	As I have said, this is a serious setback. I believe that Sinn Fein’s change of mind is unhelpful and hugely disappointing. As I have said, however, the task now is for the Northern Ireland Executive parties to continue their efforts to implement the Stormont House agreement. I hope to get the party leaders together as soon as possible to discuss how to resolve this welfare question, but the Stormont House agreement will not be reopened; we need to press ahead with implementation. The corporation tax question is difficult. It is expressly linked with the resolution of welfare reform. The Bill contains a commencement clause, and there is no question but that this welfare issue must be resolved. The Executive must fulfil their obligations under the Stormont House agreement before the commencement clause can be operated. In the interim, the Government propose to continue with the legislation and to complete its parliamentary progress, because we are determined to implement the agreement fully and fairly. Let me be clear: Northern Ireland will not get these devolved powers until the Stormont House agreement has been implemented.
2015-03-11b.280.0	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Nigel Dodds	It is important now that people in Northern Ireland, this House and everybody looking at the political scene are clear that the responsibility for the current crisis lies squarely with Sinn Fein, which is reneging on its commitments clearly made and openly expressed in the Stormont House agreement. Will the Secretary of State be clear that she will not take this blanket condemnation or blame approach, but focus on the problem—Sinn Fein?
2015-03-11b.280.1	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Theresa Villiers	I will indeed focus on the problem. The right hon. Gentleman is right that this current setback is the result of the actions of Sinn Fein, which is, as I have said, hugely disappointing and unhelpful. To be honest, it was a significant surprise, too, given the enthusiasm with which the Deputy First Minister and Sinn Fein were promoting the agreement. Now I think we all need to work together to try to get this sorted, because it would be a huge step backwards if the Stormont House agreement were to be jeopardised. It would potentially plunge us back into the sort of budget and political crisis with which we were grappling last year.
2015-03-11b.280.2	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Margaret Ritchie	May I, on behalf of my party, associate myself with the tributes paid to Lord Molyneaux of Killead, and convey our condolences to his family, friends and colleagues? Given the need to create economic and political stability in Northern Ireland, will the Secretary of State prevail on the Chancellor to reduce VAT on United Kingdom tourism products in next week’s Budget? That would have important financial consequences for the tourism industry in Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.280.3	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Theresa Villiers	Let me also take the opportunity to associate myself with the comments of the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) and my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State about the distinguished record of Lord Molyneaux. He was indeed a very distinguished parliamentarian over many years, and this is a sad loss to Northern Ireland. The Chancellor is well aware of the campaign for the tax change that the hon. Lady would like to see. Tax reductions are difficult because the imperative must be repairing the public finances, but the Chancellor has relieved tax burdens on business by reducing corporation tax, introducing an employment allowance and, of course, helping people into work.
2015-03-11b.280.4	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Ivan Lewis	May I associate my party with the comments that have been made about Lord Molyneaux? As the Secretary of State has said, economic progress and political stability in Northern Ireland are inextricably linked. Does she agree that the unravelling of the Stormont House agreement would be an unmitigated disaster for economic and political confidence in Northern Ireland, and that now is the time for responsible leadership which accepts the need for a reformed welfare system that mitigates the impact of cuts on the most vulnerable while also being affordable and sustainable?
2015-03-11b.281.0	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Theresa Villiers	I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman. Now is the time for level-headed consideration of how we can resolve this matter. In the autumn, Northern Ireland faced a budget crisis that was so serious that the very sustainability and future credibility of the institutions was at stake, and we were looking over a cliff at the possibility that devolution would collapse altogether. Returning to that position would be a huge step backward. The Stormont House agreement was a big step forward, and it is vital for all parties to work to ensure that it is implemented fully and fairly.
2015-03-11b.281.1	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Ivan Lewis	Does the Secretary of State intend to convene urgent all-party talks in an effort to put the Welfare Reform Bill back on track? By what date must the Bill be passed, if the Executive rather than civil servants are to set next year’s budget in Northern Ireland?
2015-03-11b.281.2	NORTHERN IRELAND	Government’s Economic Pact	Theresa Villiers	As I said earlier to the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) , I expect to meet the five party leaders in the coming days. I hope to do so tomorrow, but that will depend on when the First and Deputy First Minister return from New York. It is vital for progress to be made on welfare reform. That is a key part of the Stormont Castle and the Stormont House agreements. I will press for such progress, not least because without it the Northern Ireland Executive’s budget will become unsustainable, which will hugely impair its ability to function effectively.
2015-03-11b.281.4	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Fiona Bruce	What assessment she has made of the current political situation in Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.281.5	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Andrew Rosindell	What assessment she has made of the current political situation in Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.281.6	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Theresa Villiers	The political situation suffered a setback on Monday following Sinn Fein’s withdrawal of support for the Welfare Reform Bill. It is very important for the Stormont House agreement to be implemented fully and fairly, including all the sections on welfare and budgets. I will continue to work intensively with the Northern Ireland parties to resolve the impasse.
2015-03-11b.281.7	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Fiona Bruce	What does the Secretary of State consider to be the wider political implications of Sinn Fein’s withdrawal of support for the welfare proposals?
2015-03-11b.281.8	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Theresa Villiers	The political implications are very serious. They put in jeopardy corporation tax devolution, a financial package of about £2 billion in extra spending power, and a fresh approach to the past which is designed to produce better outcomes for victims and survivors. All that is under threat as a result of what has happened this week, and I will do all that I can to retrieve the situation so that the Stormont House agreement can go ahead.
2015-03-11b.282.0	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Andrew Rosindell	Does the Secretary of State agree that Her Majesty’s Government must take resolute action against Sinn Fein over its irresponsible and selfish behaviour, which is jeopardising the Stormont Parliament and everything that has been achieved in Northern Ireland so far?
2015-03-11b.282.1	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Theresa Villiers	As I said, the approach taken by Sinn Fein is hugely disappointing and dramatically different from everything that it has been saying over the past few months. I am urging Sinn Fein to change its approach. It is vital that we have a responsible and realistic approach to welfare. The welfare reform package agreed under the Stormont House agreement is a good one, a generous one and a fair one, and therefore it is vital that it is implemented.
2015-03-11b.282.2	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Peter Hain	May I wish all my friends in Northern Ireland the very best for the future? People often take for granted the peace and stability that has been secured in Northern Ireland since the 2007 agreement, but that was won only after conflict, terror and hatred going back centuries, through very difficult negotiations. It took dedicated skill and constant strong leadership by the Labour Government to achieve it. Does the Secretary of State accept that maintaining that progress requires nurturing by this Government and also by any Governments to follow?
2015-03-11b.282.3	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Theresa Villiers	I do accept that. This Government will continue to do all they can to support and nurture that political settlement. That is a message that all parties need to hear, including Sinn Fein—that we should not take risks with political stability in Northern Ireland, because the consequences could be very grave.
2015-03-11b.282.4	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Sammy Wilson	Does the Secretary of State recognise that it is not just Sinn Fein, but their lapdogs in the Social Democratic and Labour party who have blocked welfare reform in Northern Ireland and put the Assembly in jeopardy? Will she spell out the consequences for corporation tax, the economic package and the long-term sustainability of the budget in Northern Ireland as a result of that irresponsible behaviour?
2015-03-11b.282.5	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Theresa Villiers	If this question is not resolved, if the welfare reform legislation remains permanently stalled, obviously the rest of the Stormont House agreement does not happen. That includes the financial package and the devolution of corporation tax, but we are not at that point yet. It is important to work intensively, and in the meantime the UK Government will do everything we can to continue to implement the agreement.
2015-03-11b.282.6	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Mark Durkan	The Secretary of State will be at pains not to feed the sense of impasse that surrounds the Stormont House agreement. She knows that there were two elements to the understanding on welfare reform—one was the understanding about the amount of money from the Executive’s budget that could mitigate measures; the other was the degree of leeway within the welfare spending. Has anything changed in the lines from the Department for Work and Pensions that have given rise to the allegations that Sinn Fein is making against the Democratic Unionist party?
2015-03-11b.283.0	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Theresa Villiers	I agree with the hon. Gentleman that we need to do all we can to keep the situation as calm as possible. Unfortunately, episodes of this kind are characteristic of the implementation process of agreements. It will be helpful for as many facts as possible to be made clear about the how the welfare reform programme will operate in Northern Ireland and how the top-ups will operate. It is a generous package and once the details are clear, I hope everyone will be convinced of that.
2015-03-11b.283.1	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Stephen Pound	At this, the last Northern Ireland questions before the election, there is an air of some melancholy. Who knows where we will meet again or on what side of the Dispatch Box? May I ask the right hon. Lady what, in her three years as Secretary of State, in which she has been unfailingly courteous, she would consider her proudest—her finest—achievement?
2015-03-11b.283.2	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Theresa Villiers	Up to Monday, I would have said the Stormont House agreement— [Interruption]
2015-03-11b.283.3	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Mr Speaker	Order. The hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) asked a question. I want to hear the Secretary of State’s answer, and she is entitled to have her answer heard.
2015-03-11b.283.4	NORTHERN IRELAND	Political Situation	Theresa Villiers	Up until Monday, I would have said the Stormont House agreement. I think that is still the greatest thing that I have contributed to and it is still on the road. We have had a bump on the road, but the Stormont House agreement will carry on. The other thing of which I am proud is the progress that we have made towards devolution of corporation tax. I do not want to see that thrown off course by events that have taken place this week.
2015-03-11b.283.6	NORTHERN IRELAND	Flags and Parades	Kerry McCarthy	What further steps the Government plan to take to resolve outstanding issues relating to flags and parades.
2015-03-11b.283.7	NORTHERN IRELAND	Flags and Parades	Rosie Cooper	What further steps the Government plan to take to resolve outstanding issues relating to flags and parades.
2015-03-11b.283.8	NORTHERN IRELAND	Flags and Parades	Theresa Villiers	The Stormont House agreement identified a clear way forward on parades and flags. [Interruption.] The Government will continue to work with the five parties in the Executive on the implementation of all the provisions of the agreement, including on these issues. [Interruption.]
2015-03-11b.283.9	NORTHERN IRELAND	Flags and Parades	Kerry McCarthy	I thank the Secretary of State for that answer, although I must admit I had trouble hearing it. Unrest around the parades has an unsettling impact on the community, on local businesses and on tourism. What steps are the Government taking this year to try to ensure a peaceful parade season?
2015-03-11b.284.0	NORTHERN IRELAND	Flags and Parades	Theresa Villiers	I urge everyone involved in parades or parades-related protest to ensure that all activity related to parades and protest is both peaceful and lawful and that the determinations of the Parades Commission, as the lawfully constituted authority, are complied with. I continue to have a series of meetings to try to find a way forward on the parading impasse in north Belfast.
2015-03-11b.284.1	NORTHERN IRELAND	Flags and Parades	Rosie Cooper	In Belfast, my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) recently said that securing the peace process and a strong economy went hand in hand. Does the Secretary of State agree, and will she support the Heenan-Anderson commission to ensure that people at the margins are not drawn to violence on issues such as flags and parades?
2015-03-11b.284.2	NORTHERN IRELAND	Flags and Parades	Theresa Villiers	I agree that politics and economics are intertwined in Northern Ireland. Political stability is crucial for a successful economy. I note the Labour commission on this, but I think the crucial thing is to stick to the Government’s long-term economic plan, because that is delivering economic recovery in Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.284.3	NORTHERN IRELAND	Flags and Parades	David Simpson	Does the Secretary of State recognise the feeling of injustice in the Unionist community on the issue of parades? In my constituency we have waited 16 years to get a return parade—a church parade. When are we going to get a resolution?
2015-03-11b.284.4	NORTHERN IRELAND	Flags and Parades	Theresa Villiers	I am very conscious of the concern felt in the community in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. It is crucial that the Parades Commission’s determination needs to be abided by, but it is also important to press ahead with a reformed and devolved system of parades adjudication, as envisaged by the Stormont House agreement.
2015-03-11b.284.6	NORTHERN IRELAND	Cost of Living	Nicholas Dakin	What steps the Government are taking to reduce the cost of living in Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.284.7	NORTHERN IRELAND	Cost of Living	Alex Cunningham	What steps the Government are taking to reduce the cost of living in Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.284.8	NORTHERN IRELAND	Cost of Living	Andrew Murrison	Cutting income tax, freezing fuel duty, welfare reform, dealing with the spectacular deficit we inherited and keeping interest rates low are practical examples of how this Government are helping hard-pressed families in Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.284.9	NORTHERN IRELAND	Cost of Living	Nicholas Dakin	Labour has set out clear plans to raise the national minimum wage to at least £8 by 2020. What is the Minister doing to tackle low pay, when one in six people in Northern Ireland are in low pay?
2015-03-11b.284.10	NORTHERN IRELAND	Cost of Living	Andrew Murrison	I thought the hon. Gentleman would have started by welcoming the Government’s efforts to reduce unemployment in Northern Ireland—17,000 extra jobs in the private sector over the past year alone. If he was listening, he would have heard the answer to his question from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State earlier
2015-03-11b.285.0	NORTHERN IRELAND	Cost of Living	Alex Cunningham	The Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action estimates that introducing the living wage would see 173,000 low-paid employees receive an average gross pay rise of £1,300 a year. Will the Government look at strengthening the living wage to help Northern Ireland, which has the lowest private sector pay in the UK?
2015-03-11b.285.1	NORTHERN IRELAND	Cost of Living	Andrew Murrison	The hon. Gentleman will, I hope, have seen the Institute for Fiscal Studies incomes report published earlier this month. It marked a major milestone, for it is now clear that average incomes in Northern Ireland are back from the pit they were in prior to Labour’s deficit crisis. The IFS further forecasts that incomes will rise above inflation in the year ahead, and I hope the hon. Gentleman will welcome that.
2015-03-11b.285.2	NORTHERN IRELAND	Cost of Living	Ian Paisley Jnr	Does the Minister recognise that the Democratic Unionist party’s long-term economic plan to see household taxes at their lowest and a freeze on the regional rate on household taxes for five years is working? However, this Government could have a direct impact by reducing energy costs for employers and consumers alike, and they should address that immediately.
2015-03-11b.285.3	NORTHERN IRELAND	Cost of Living	Andrew Murrison	The hon. Gentleman makes his points in his characteristically formidable fashion, and I am sure he will welcome the freeze on fuel duty, which will mean that by the end of this Parliament a tank of petrol will cost £10 less. He will also welcome inward investment to Northern Ireland, which I know he feels very strongly about given what has happened in his constituency, with, for example, Kainos, Randox, WhiteHat, Revel and PricewaterhouseCoopers. They will be creating 800 jobs in Northern Ireland—high-quality jobs—in the year ahead.
2015-03-11b.285.5	NORTHERN IRELAND	National Crime Agency	Andrew Robathan	What recent progress has been made on the status and operation of the National Crime Agency in Northern Ireland.
2015-03-11b.285.6	NORTHERN IRELAND	National Crime Agency	Theresa Villiers	I welcome the vote in the Assembly that will enable the full operation of the National Crime Agency in Northern Ireland. This will ensure that the people of Northern Ireland are afforded the same protections from serious and organised crime as those in the rest of the United Kingdom.
2015-03-11b.285.7	NORTHERN IRELAND	National Crime Agency	Andrew Robathan	When the NCA is up and running in Northern Ireland, will my right hon. Friend speak via the Chief Constable to ensure that the agency investigates the destination of funds from serious and organised crime? Many of the serious and organised criminals in the border area are the people giving funds to the IRA, and it is important that those funds do not fund political parties.
2015-03-11b.285.8	NORTHERN IRELAND	National Crime Agency	Theresa Villiers	I am sure my right hon. Friend will understand that I cannot comment on individual cases, but I know that the full implementation of the NCA in Northern Ireland is a welcome step. I pay tribute to the Justice Minister and others for securing that result, and I know that they will bear down on all the perpetrators of such activities and on any who receive the funds that those activities create.
2015-03-11b.286.0	NORTHERN IRELAND	National Crime Agency	Mr Speaker	Last but not least, Mr Gregory Campbell.
2015-03-11b.286.1	NORTHERN IRELAND	National Crime Agency	Gregory Campbell	Thank you, Mr Speaker. Will the National Crime Agency specifically target the organised criminal gangs that are engaging in subterfuge and in the organised criminal activity of fuel laundering along the border areas of Northern Ireland?
2015-03-11b.286.2	NORTHERN IRELAND	National Crime Agency	Theresa Villiers	That is a significant problem, and the House will have the chance to debate it later. Significant cross-border co-operation is under way, and the authorities in Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the police services on both sides of the border are determined to tackle the problem and bring the perpetrators to justice.
2015-03-12b.383.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Dairy Farmers	Daniel Kawczynski	What steps she is taking to assist dairy farmers.
2015-03-12b.383.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Dairy Farmers	Elizabeth Truss	The dairy industry is a vital part of food and farming and of our national life. With farmers struggling with low prices, we are doing all we can to help with cash flow. We are working with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to help farmers delay their tax payments; we are urging banks to treat dairy farmers sympathetically; and we have prioritised dairy farmers for payments from the Rural Payments Agency.
2015-03-12b.383.6	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Dairy Farmers	Daniel Kawczynski	I am grateful for that answer. My right hon. Friend will know that Shropshire has some of the most productive and best dairy farms in the whole country, and I very much hope to invite her to visit Shropshire after the election, when she will continue to be a great Secretary of State. Will she explain what additional help she is giving to dairy farmers to ensure that more milk is used in our schools and hospitals, and exported?
2015-03-12b.383.7	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Dairy Farmers	Elizabeth Truss	I completely agree with my hon. Friend about how productive dairy farmers in Shropshire are. We want to see more dairy products sold here in Britain and overseas. That is why we launched the Bonfield plan, which will open up £400 million-worth of business across the public sector. I strongly encourage schools, hospitals and caterers to use the balanced scorecard, so that they can buy from great producers in Shropshire.
2015-03-12b.383.8	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Dairy Farmers	Anne McIntosh	May I applaud the work the Secretary of State and her Department have done on exporting dairy and other products? What urgent action can she take to rebalance the relationship in the supply chain between the very small dairy producer and the often very large processor in this business?
2015-03-12b.384.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Dairy Farmers	Elizabeth Truss	I thank my hon. Friend for her question. Since 2009, we have seen a 50% increase in dairy exports. There is still more to do, however, which is why we have appointed our first ever agriculture and food counsellor at the Beijing embassy—China will be the world’s largest importer of food and drink by 2018. There is, of course, more work to do, and we have given the Groceries Code Adjudicator further powers, including the power to impose fines of 1% of turnover.
2015-03-12b.384.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Dairy Farmers	Andrew Turner	A key plank of the Government’s assistance to dairy farmers is the LEADER programme. After the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs failed to answer pleas for advice on the Isle of Wight’s application, will my right hon. Friend agree to an urgent meeting, so we can discuss this matter with Ministers?
2015-03-12b.384.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Dairy Farmers	Elizabeth Truss	I thank my hon. Friend for his question, and he is right about the vital support the LEADER programme brings. DEFRA Ministers are already looking at this issue, and I would be delighted to discuss it with him.
2015-03-12b.384.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Dairy Farmers	James Gray	With milk at 20p a litre, farmers across Wiltshire are suffering most dreadfully, and many of them are going out of business, but they accept that it is a question of worldwide supply. They ask me questions, however, about whether the Irish quota is larger than it need be, and about whether milk products, particularly cheese, are being re-imported from Ireland—possibly illegally across a porous border—and depressing British prices.
2015-03-12b.384.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Dairy Farmers	Elizabeth Truss	Currently, 50% of the dairy products consumed in Britain are imported. I want to see more British products produced and sold in this country. That is why I am pushing the European Commission for compulsory country-of-origin labelling to make sure that British consumers can go into supermarkets and find out which products are from Britain.
2015-03-12b.384.6	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	Damian Collins	What assessment she has made of the potential effect of a discard ban on the inshore fishing fleet.
2015-03-12b.384.7	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	George Eustice	We recently launched a consultation on the implementation of the discard ban, which will help us to make that assessment. The consultation is being used to identify how to phase in the ban, how to allocate increases in quotas, where to introduce exemptions and how to manage the under-10 metre quota pool. The discard ban can provide significant benefits for all sectors of the fleet.
2015-03-12b.384.8	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	Damian Collins	Trawlermen in Folkestone, Hythe and Dungeness have raised with me their concerns about the lack of quota for the inshore fishing fleet and the potentially devastating impact of the discard ban. Will the Minister urgently consider making more quota available for the inshore fishing fleet and granting an exemption from the discard ban?
2015-03-12b.385.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	George Eustice	While the common fisheries policy does not allow the exemption of a whole fleet, there are other exemptions—for instance, exemptions for species that survive after being discarded, and if handling discards is disproportionately costly. On quota, we are in the process of permanently realigning some of it from producer organisations to the inshore fleet. In addition, as part of this consultation, we are considering giving the inshore fleet a greater share of the quota uplift that forms part of the CFP.
2015-03-12b.385.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	Ben Bradshaw	Given the collapse of our bass stocks, and the fact that the latest figures show a worrying 30% increase in the number of commercial landings of bass, will the Minister please finally take meaningful action to save our bass? Will he, for instance, provide for an immediate increase in the minimum landing size, which is something that I signed off 10 years ago when I was the fisheries Minister?
2015-03-12b.385.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	George Eustice	I know that the right hon. Gentleman has been pursuing this issue. As he will know, at the December Council we argued strongly for measures to be taken on bass. We pressed the European Commission to take emergency measures to ban pair trawling, which was done in the new year. We are currently discussing with other member states and the Commission the possibility of a bag limit for anglers, and also catch limits for the remainder of the commercial fleet. I can also tell the right hon. Gentleman that we are considering raising the minimum landing size nationally.
2015-03-12b.385.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	Andrew George	May I urge my hon. Friend to review the application of the rules relating to the ban on the return of fish that might survive, particularly hand-lined mackerel? I have some experience of this, and I know that the vast majority survive. It is absurd for fishermen to be told that they cannot return those fish.
2015-03-12b.385.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	George Eustice	Mackerel were included in the pelagic discard ban that was considered last year, but we are giving serious consideration to the survivability rates of white fish, particularly flatfish such as sole and plaice. I shall be happy to look into the specific issue of mackerel hand-lining in Cornwall, and to keep it under constant review. We did manage to secure an exemption for the Cornish sardine industry, which was a big success.
2015-03-12b.385.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	Eilidh Whiteford	There is still a huge amount of uncertainty about how the ban can be made workable in the context of mixed fisheries in the North sea. What are Ministers doing to ensure that so-called choke species do not end up choking off the livelihoods of not just the fishermen in the white fish fleet, but the onshore processors?
2015-03-12b.385.6	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	George Eustice	I know that people are concerned about the challenges involved in the implementation of a discard ban. That is why we have had to start thinking about it at an early stage, and why we have issued the consultation in the way that we have. As for choke species such as hake, which is often cited in Scotland, we will be phasing in the ban over five years, and we will start with the species that define the fishery, so the ban on some of those species would not apply until a date closer to 2020.
2015-03-12b.386.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	Neil Parish	I believe that the discard ban is absolutely right, although it will obviously take some time to get its implementation right. What will be done about fish that are landed and may or may not be fit for human consumption, but could be used as fish food, or even for farming purposes?
2015-03-12b.386.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	George Eustice	We are discussing that with processors and port authorities, but we believe that we have enough processing capacity to create fishmeal, although there may be problems with transport from the ports to the locations where the fishmeal is processed. We want to change fishing behaviour, and to reduce the amount of unwanted fish that is landed by means of more selective gears and changes in fishing patterns.
2015-03-12b.386.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	Jim Shannon	I am sure that the Minister is aware of the regional discrepancy in net configurations. The Northern Ireland requirement is 300 mm, while the requirement in the Republic of Ireland is 80 mm, and there are different requirements in Scotland, Wales and England. Has the Minister discussed with regional authorities and the Government of the Republic the introduction of more uniformity in net configuration, in the context of the discard ban?
2015-03-12b.386.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Inshore Fishing Fleet (Discard Ban)	George Eustice	I shall be happy to look into that. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the nephrops industry is particularly important in Northern Ireland, and we managed, against the odds, to secure an increase in the total allowable catch at the December Council. That will be good for the Northern Ireland fleet. Different countries take different approaches when it comes to technical measures; that is an important aspect of the devolved entity that we want the common fisheries policy to become.
2015-03-12b.386.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bees and Pollinators	Andrew Rosindell	What assessment she has made of the role the public can play in supporting bees and pollinators.
2015-03-12b.386.6	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bees and Pollinators	Jeremy Lefroy	What assessment she has made of the role the public can play in supporting bees and pollinators
2015-03-12b.386.7	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bees and Pollinators	Elizabeth Truss	In November we published the national pollinator strategy, a 10-year plan to help pollinators to thrive, which involves farmers, major landowners and the public. People can help in their gardens, schools or local parks by leaving areas wild for pollinators, or ensuring that food sources are available throughout the year.
2015-03-12b.386.8	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bees and Pollinators	Andrew Rosindell	Will the Secretary of State update me on how the 2013 United Kingdom national action plan for sustainable use of pesticides is being reviewed, so that the use of pesticides by local authorities in particular can be reduced?
2015-03-12b.386.9	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bees and Pollinators	Elizabeth Truss	We will update the action plan by 2017 in line with European Union requirements. Many local authorities are involved in our national pollinator strategy: Bristol, Wyre Forest and Peterborough are all taking measures to plant pollinator-friendly wild flowers.
2015-03-12b.387.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bees and Pollinators	Jeremy Lefroy	Last month, at the Stafford green arts festival, “There is no planet B”, I was presented with a book that contained a number of concerns raised by my constituents, including the threat to bees and pollinators. What news can I give them of the work being done across the country to protect and preserve pollinators, which are so essential for food production?
2015-03-12b.387.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bees and Pollinators	Elizabeth Truss	My hon. Friend is absolutely right: pollinators are vital for our £100 billion food and farming industry, and are estimated to be worth £430 million to our economy in services alone. That is why we launched the national pollinator strategy, which will include a wild pollinator and wildlife element in the new countryside stewardship scheme. That means that farmers will have a strong incentive to help pollinators on their land.
2015-03-12b.387.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bees and Pollinators	Caroline Spelman	I am pleased to see that Network Rail has joined the Government’s strategy on pollinators, but is my right hon. Friend aware that its practice of removing all vegetation along the railway embankments destroys the habitats of bees and pollinators, and no assurances have been given to my constituents in Hampton-in-Arden that there will be an offset for this biodiversity loss?
2015-03-12b.387.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bees and Pollinators	Elizabeth Truss	I thank my right hon. Friend for making that point. It is good news that Network Rail, the Highways Agency and other major organisations, including the National Trust, have signed up to the pollinator strategy, and I am certainly very happy to take up that specific point with Network Rail, because major landowners can do so much to make sure that areas are available for pollinators to thrive.
2015-03-12b.387.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Rural Payments Agency	Bill Wiggin	What assessment she has made of trends in the performance of the Rural Payments Agency since 2010.
2015-03-12b.387.6	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Rural Payments Agency	George Eustice	Under this Government, the Rural Payments Agency has dealt with the historical issues of late payments to farmers, which were a feature under the last Government. This year it released payments to 97.4% of claimants within the first month, and 2013-14 was the agency’s most successful year to date, with more customers being paid on the first day than ever before, and with high customer satisfaction scores.
2015-03-12b.387.7	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Rural Payments Agency	Bill Wiggin	I must declare my interest in farming. Will the basic payments system be ready by 15 May ? Why are farmers expected to draw ineligible features, instead of satellite mapping being used? What sort of support is there if they make any errors in the process, so that they are not being set up to fail?
2015-03-12b.387.8	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Rural Payments Agency	Mr Speaker	There were three questions there, but at least each was brief.
2015-03-12b.387.9	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Rural Payments Agency	George Eustice	On the first point, I can report that over 75% of farmers are now registered on the system. Some of them are experiencing issues with the slowness of the mapping system, and we are working to address that. On my hon. Friend’s question about why they have to map, they have always had to map ineligible features—that is a requirement of the EU regulations—but they are entered on to the final application by digitisers, who check that the area is mapped correctly.
2015-03-12b.388.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Rural Payments Agency	Maria Eagle	Stephen Wyrill, national chairman of the Tenant Farmers Association, says that the Department’s online system for farmers to claim under the basic payment scheme is “heading for carnage”, and Guy Smith, vice-president of the National Farmers Union, says that its concern will turn to “justified alarm” if full mapping functionality is not operating by this weekend as promised. Many farmers depend for their survival on this payment. Can the Minister give an undertaking that all farmers will be able to make their claim online by 15 May ?
2015-03-12b.388.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Rural Payments Agency	George Eustice	We have been working closely with the farming industry on this. Under this system, this was always going to be an iterative process. We wanted to put the system in place in stages and instalments. We have 75% of farmers on already, we are addressing the issue of the speed of the system, and we are looking at ways of expediting things for certain land types, so that they can bypass parts of the land eligibility criteria. I should also point out that we have a network of 50 digital support centres to help those farmers who require help.
2015-03-12b.388.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Rural Payments Agency	Maria Eagle	With 25% of farmers not yet registered and the deadline fast approaching, Farmers Weekly is reporting that only 236 farmers have gone for help to the 50 support centres, which is fewer than five per centre. Those who have registered—96% of them did so by phone, not online—are reporting that the online system has constant error messages and general slowness, that field information is not appearing, and that the mapping function does not work. Is the Minister planning a paper-based plan B, in case his online system collapses or is not fit for purpose?
2015-03-12b.388.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Rural Payments Agency	George Eustice	Our plan is to make the system work and to ensure that those farmers who need help can go into digital support centres. We anticipate that those centres will be busier in April, but we have ensured that they have sufficient capacity to upscale and to help farmers. It is important to recognise that about half of all farmers have only permanent pasture, and the requirement for them to map their details is lesser than it is for arable farmers. We are looking at ways of expediting this process.
2015-03-12b.388.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Rural Payments Agency	David Heath	This Government should be hugely proud of the massive improvement in the Rural Payments Agency, compared with the chaos of a few years ago. We should also give thanks to its chief executive, Mark Grimshaw, for his work on making that happen. It is a fact that the IT systems will be critical in future. They will have to work, but we also need to enable farmers to use IT out in rural areas of the country that often have no access. The Minister will of course do everything he can to make the system work, but will he also redouble his efforts to persuade other Government Departments that rural broadband is absolutely critical to this important industry?
2015-03-12b.389.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Rural Payments Agency	George Eustice	Yes. We recognise the importance of rural broadband, which is why Broadband Delivery UK has invested hundreds of millions of pounds to bring broadband to rural areas. I know that my hon. Friend was involved in commissioning the Cap D system—the common agricultural policy delivery system—and he will recognise that we have ensured that it can operate at quite low speeds of around 2 megabits per second. That will ensure that most farmers are able to use it, but we have established the network of digital support centres for those who are not.
2015-03-12b.389.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Key Performance Indicators	Chi Onwurah	What steps she is taking to ensure that her Department’s environmental key performance indicators are met.
2015-03-12b.389.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Key Performance Indicators	Dan Rogerson	The core Department has reduced the size of its core estate to three properties and implemented measures such as LED lighting and improved insulation to reduce energy use. Carbon emissions, the quantity of waste we generate and the amount of water we use have reduced by 39%, 30% and 2% respectively. In the coming year, we are looking to use energy performance contracts to make our buildings more efficient and potentially to introduce renewable generation.
2015-03-12b.389.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Key Performance Indicators	Chi Onwurah	The environment is clearly a key part of preventing and combating climate change, and that was one of the performance indicators. However, the Secretary of State has reduced from 38 to six the number of people working on climate change, and the Committee on Climate Change gave her Department a mere three out of 10. Does the Minister agree that in so trivialising climate change, the Secretary of State is putting at risk our long-term economic and environmental future?
2015-03-12b.389.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Key Performance Indicators	Dan Rogerson	Mr Speaker, you will not be surprised to hear that I do not agree with the hon. Lady’s contention. I have a meeting this afternoon with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change on the important work that we are doing on mitigation and adaptation. That remains a priority for this Government, which is why we are delivering on making a difference on this important range of issues.
2015-03-12b.389.6	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Key Performance Indicators	Gary Streeter	Could one of the Department’s environmental key performance indicators be the simplification of uplands entry-level stewardship agreements? I have several hill farmers who are struggling with unhelpful interpretations of those agreements by Natural England, and they need to be clarified and simplified.
2015-03-12b.389.7	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Key Performance Indicators	Dan Rogerson	It is absolutely right that we should do all we can to ensure that these important new schemes are brought in properly, and that the existing schemes are functioning correctly. If my hon. Friend has particular concerns about the schemes, I would be happy to receive a letter from him that I can share with my colleague who deals primarily with these matters.
2015-03-12b.390.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Key Performance Indicators	Barry Gardiner	The Select Committee on Environmental Audit has used a traffic-light system to assess the Government’s performance over the past five years. On air pollution, it has given the Government a red light; on biodiversity and wildlife, it has given the Government a red light; and on climate change adaptation, flooding and coastal protection, it has also given the Government a red light. This Government were supposed to be the greenest Government ever, so why are they ending their time in office without being awarded a single green light?
2015-03-12b.390.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Key Performance Indicators	Dan Rogerson	During my time in office, I have been happy to give evidence repeatedly to the Environmental Audit Committee, though I might disagree with some of its conclusions. I am happy to say that this Government are making improvements on air quality. There are issues with nitrogen dioxide, but they are being addressed at European level. We are improving our status in the important area of biodiversity in this country. We are improving our water quality. Across a whole range of areas, this Government are taking action to improve the quality of our environment and to establish, through the processes of the Natural Capital Committee, the importance of our natural capital now and in the future.
2015-03-12b.390.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Flood Defences	Martin Vickers	How many flood defence schemes are planned to be built under the Government's flood defence programme.
2015-03-12b.390.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Flood Defences	Elizabeth Truss	Our six-year flood defence programme, announced in December, includes more than 1,400 projects across the country. This £2.3 billion investment is a real-terms increase in capital spending and will mean that 300,000 homes are better protected.
2015-03-12b.390.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Flood Defences	Martin Vickers	I thank my right hon. Friend for that. She will be aware of local authorities’ proposals to strengthen defences around the Humber estuary, and the autumn statement allocated £80 million for initial expenditure. Will she update us on when her officials will have made a full assessment of the proposals and when she will be able to make an announcement?
2015-03-12b.390.6	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Flood Defences	Elizabeth Truss	I was delighted that in December we could announce £80 million for schemes on the Humber estuary, which will improve protection for more than 50,000 households. We are examining the ambitious proposals put forward by my hon. Friend, his colleagues and local authorities in the area, and we will publish the results in July.
2015-03-12b.390.7	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Flood Defences	Hugh Bayley	I am grateful to the Secretary of State for publishing the flood protection investment figures as official statistics, for which I asked in the House more than a year ago. They show, as I claimed, that over the past three years the Government have cut the amount spent on flood protection by £350 million, compared with the amount they inherited. The really interesting thing is that although the figures show the amount rising this year to £469 million, they show it falling immediately after the election to £370 million. Is that because the Government believe flood risks will fall by 20% next year—or is it just pre-election cynicism?
2015-03-12b.391.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Flood Defences	Elizabeth Truss	Let us be clear: the amount we are spending in our six-year programme—£2.3 billion—is a real-terms increase on the capital expenditure this Parliament, which again is a real-terms increase from that in the previous Parliament. The result of that is we will end up reducing flood risk, including the impact of climate change, by 5%.
2015-03-12b.391.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Flood Defences	Michael Fabricant	My right hon. Friend will be aware that it is not just the sea we need to protect against, but flooding from excessive rain. What action is she taking to encourage the Environment Agency to ensure that drainage ditches are regularly dredged?
2015-03-12b.391.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Flood Defences	Elizabeth Truss	First, we are putting additional funding into maintenance—an additional £35 million this year and next year for those types of activity. We are also running pilot projects so that local landowners and farmers can be involved in that work, as well as the Environment Agency. In addition, local environment agencies are spending more time now on issues such as dredging to make sure that that work happens.
2015-03-12b.391.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Flood Defences	Ian Lavery	The residents of Morpeth in my constituency are delighted with the actions of the Environment Agency and the near-completion of the flood alleviation scheme, but they are really concerned about flood risk insurance. What stage are we at in the discussions and negotiations on Flood Re and other affordable insurance schemes?
2015-03-12b.391.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Flood Defences	Elizabeth Truss	We are on track for Flood Re to be established this summer—we are currently working on that. In the interim, we have the 2008 statement of principles, which will make sure that people in those areas do have flood insurance.
2015-03-12b.391.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Flood Defences	Mr Speaker	I call Kerry McCarthy. She is not here.
2015-03-12b.391.7	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bovine Tuberculosis	Fiona Bruce	What assessment she has made of the lessons that can be learned from the experiences of other countries in dealing with bovine tuberculosis.
2015-03-12b.391.8	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bovine Tuberculosis	George Eustice	The success of the bovine TB eradication policies pursued in countries such as Australia, New Zealand, the United States and the Republic of Ireland demonstrates the need to bear down on the disease effectively in both cattle and wildlife.
2015-03-12b.391.9	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bovine Tuberculosis	Fiona Bruce	I thank the Minister for his answer. Does he agree that lessons from Ireland, in particular, show that where there is TB in wildlife it must be tackled through culling as part of any comprehensive strategy to tackle TB? If that had happened years ago when TB was known to be moving towards Cheshire at the rate of 1 mile a year, Cheshire’s farmers would not be suffering the difficulties they are today. Does he also agree that this should not be such a political issue? It is about supporting our farmers and eradicating TB.
2015-03-12b.392.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bovine Tuberculosis	George Eustice	My hon. Friend makes an important point: it is not possible to eradicate this disease without tackling the reservoir of the disease in the wildlife population. She rightly says that the previous Government put their head in the sands and did nothing. This is a slow-moving, difficult disease and it has to be hit hard and early, which the previous Government failed to do. At a recent NFU conference Labour confirmed again that, irrespective of the evidence and the advice of the chief veterinary officer, it would abandon the culls.
2015-03-12b.392.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bovine Tuberculosis	Huw Irranca-Davies	Despite the Government’s protestations, the previous Labour Government killed more badgers than any other Government. [Laughter.] Yes. The £50 million trial over 10 years concluded that such action gave no meaningful contribution to the eradication of tuberculosis. The Government’s badger culls have not just been a disaster for wildlife, but come at a huge financial cost. In the first year of the culls, the Government spent £9.8 million. With Ministers proposing to extend the badger culls, possibly to 10 areas and after that to 40 areas, how much more can taxpayers expect to fork out for these ineffective and inhumane badger culls?
2015-03-12b.392.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Bovine Tuberculosis	George Eustice	The random badger cull trials that were carried out demonstrated incontrovertibly that, over time, the cull did lead to a significant reduction in the disease, which is why the experts in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs recommend a cull as part of the strategy. It is absolutely wrong for Labour to say that it will ignore the evidence and the advice of the chief veterinary officer. On the costs in the first year, the cull clearly had elements of analysis, post mortem, research and policing that will not be present when we roll it out more widely. We are committed to having a badger cull as part of our 25-year strategy.
2015-03-12b.392.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Natura 2000	Cheryl Gillan	If she will take steps to increase the number of Natura 2000 sites in England.
2015-03-12b.392.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Natura 2000	Dan Rogerson	A review of the network of special protection areas classified under the wild birds directive is currently under way and will inform decisions on the need to classify further sites. The network of special areas of conservation designated under the habitats directive is essentially complete, but is continually under review to ensure that it remains sufficient. Further work has been undertaken to identify additional SACs for harbour porpoise and is expected to deliver later this year.
2015-03-12b.392.6	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Natura 2000	Cheryl Gillan	I thank the Minister for his answer. In that review, will he consider extending the status of Natura 2000 to the area of outstanding natural beauty in the Chilterns, particularly as it has precious ancient woodland, really fragile chalk streams and the majestic sight of the successfully re-introduced Red Kites soaring over our Chiltern hills? Surely we should be a candidate for Natura 2000 designation?
2015-03-12b.392.7	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Natura 2000	Dan Rogerson	I can reassure my right hon. Friend that the work of the AONBs is very much recognised by Government. On considering further protections, we must look at the evidence on those particular species and take any decision very carefully. Natural England is considering designating more ancient woodland as sites of special scientific interest, which will increase the protection afforded to the best ancient woodlands above and beyond that which is already accorded to ancient woodlands through the national planning policy framework.
2015-03-12b.393.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Hunting Act 2004	Paul Flynn	What her policy is on repeal of the Hunting Act 2004.
2015-03-12b.393.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Hunting Act 2004	Elizabeth Truss	My support for fox hunting is well known. The Hunting Act was a mistake, and I strongly support repeal. Acknowledging the strong views on both sides of this debate, I am pleased that the Prime Minister has said that a Conservative Government will give Parliament the opportunity to repeal the Hunting Act on a free vote with a Government Bill in Government time.
2015-03-12b.393.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Hunting Act 2004	Paul Flynn	Despite Tory hysteria, the Hunting Act did not reduce the pageantry of hunting or result in the mass slaughter of horses or hounds. What it did do was reduce greatly the sadistic torment of the chase and the kill. Is the nasty party really going to campaign in the election to bring cruelty back into hunting?
2015-03-12b.393.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Hunting Act 2004	Elizabeth Truss	I am not prepared to listen to the advice of a party that has a shadow farming Minister who will not listen to the chief veterinary officer and who has said publicly that he will not follow his advice on animal welfare issues.
2015-03-12b.393.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Hunting Act 2004	David Nuttall	Will my right hon. Friend join me in congratulating members of the Holcombe hunt, whose hounds have their kennels in my constituency, on maintaining their activities within the law since the hunting ban was introduced and preserving this most traditional of rural pursuits?
2015-03-12b.393.6	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Hunting Act 2004	Elizabeth Truss	I completely agree that hunting is important for rural communities. It is traditional and part of the fabric of our countryside.
2015-03-12b.393.7	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Hunting Act 2004	Caroline Lucas	Why will the Secretary of State not recognise the huge opposition to the idea of repealing the Hunting Act? Instead of proposing yet more cruelty to animals, why will she not look at extending the Act to grouse shooting and hare coursing, which also are cruel and hugely opposed in this country?
2015-03-12b.393.8	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Hunting Act 2004	Elizabeth Truss	Our approach is that we will introduce a Government Bill in Government time to repeal the Hunting Act on a free vote.
2015-03-12b.393.9	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Hunting Act 2004	Duncan Hames	If that is indeed our approach, can the Secretary of State tell us why there has not been a free vote in this Parliament, as set out in the coalition agreement?
2015-03-12b.393.10	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Hunting Act 2004	Elizabeth Truss	I want to see repeal of the Act, and I am pleased to say that the Prime Minister has said that a Conservative Government will give the opportunity for that.
2015-03-12b.394.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Maria Miller	If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.
2015-03-12b.394.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Elizabeth Truss	The Government are delivering on their priorities of growing the economy and improving the environment. Since 2010, we have cut farm inspections by 34,000 a year. We have helped create 150,000 acres of priority habitats. We have planted more than 11 million trees. We have cleaned up more than 10,000 miles of river. We have reformed the common fisheries policy, invested £3.2 billion in our flood defences, providing protection to an additional 230,000 homes, and put in place a strategy to eradicate bovine TB. This is a record we can be proud of.
2015-03-12b.394.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Maria Miller	Will the Secretary of State join me in applauding the work of the Forestry Commission to secure a criminal conviction against those who illegally felled more than 500 trees in Basingstoke in a failed attempt to establish a Traveller site? Will she look at ways to encourage the courts to use the fining powers that are available to them to help stop this sort of appalling environmental vandalism?
2015-03-12b.394.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Elizabeth Truss	I welcome the fact that the Forestry Commission’s enforcement action has been successful, and I applaud its exercise of these important powers. We take protection of our woodlands seriously, and no doubt the Commission will pursue the restocking requirements vigorously. It is for the courts to determine sentences, but I fully expect the restocking burden to act as a key deterrent.
2015-03-12b.394.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Ben Bradshaw	If the Government’s record in tackling lethal air pollution is as good as the Under-Secretary, the hon. Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) , claimed earlier, why is Britain facing unprecedented fines and legal action in the European courts for failing on every single air quality measure?
2015-03-12b.394.6	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Dan Rogerson	I am happy that the right hon. Gentleman is focusing attention on this. As he will no doubt be aware, one of the key factors is transport fuels, especially diesel, and the failure of vehicles to meet in real-world conditions what was shown by testing when they were approved for use. We must make improvements at the European level on vehicles standards and testing. We also make funds available to local authorities to help them take measures locally to deal with air quality. It is a crucial issue.
2015-03-12b.394.7	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Robert Jenrick	Will the Secretary of State confirm that her Department is on course to have cut red tape for farmers by cutting guidance by 80% and by reducing the number of farm inspections by 34,000 during this Parliament? When she is returned after 7 May , will she ensure that cutting red tape includes making it easier and cheaper for my Nottinghamshire farmers and riparian owners to maintain the streams and rivers that protect the countryside?
2015-03-12b.395.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Elizabeth Truss	I agree with my hon. Friend. We have seen a reduction of 34,000 farm inspections per year and an 80% reduction in red tape from DEFRA. That is vital for our £100 billion food and farming industry. A future Conservative Government would continue to bear down on red tape. We are considering pilots for land owners and farmers to manage water courses themselves, to get rid of a lot of bureaucracy.
2015-03-12b.395.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Kerry McCarthy	I hope that the Minister’s office passed on notice of my question; I appreciate that it is quite obscure. Musicians face anxiety when they travel to the United States because if their instruments contain even small amounts of ivory they fall foul of the convention on international trade in endangered species regulations. Will the Minister assure me that CITES certificates will be recognised by the US authorities and, in the longer term, may we perhaps look at an exemption for vintage instruments? I think that mother of pearl as well as ivory is an issue.
2015-03-12b.395.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	George Eustice	We are aware of these concerns and certainly want the US Government to recognise CITES musical instrument certificates, to ease the task of musicians travelling to the US with instruments that contain small amounts of legal ivory. Ultimately, these are matters for the US Government to determine. However, we intend to approach the European Commission and other EU member states to propose a joint approach to ask the US to clarify its position, with the aim of providing the reassurances the hon. Lady seeks.
2015-03-12b.395.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Anne McIntosh	So much done, so much still to do. Will my right hon. Friend commit to giving statutory status as consultees to water companies for fracking, major developments and houses and roads? In the time available, what will she look back on and see as her Department’s major achievement over the past five years?
2015-03-12b.395.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Elizabeth Truss	I certainly commit to my hon. Friend that we will ensure that there are proper environmental protections for water, as part of the Environment Agency’s work on protection for fracking areas. On the Department’s achievements, we have put food and farming at the heart of the long-term economic plan. We have seen food exports rise to £19 billion. That is vital for the one in eight people in this country who work in food and farming.
2015-03-12b.395.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Barry Sheerman	May I ask the Secretary of State not to be too complacent about our streams and rivers in this country? Has she seen recent research? I have registered interests as the initiator of Greenstreams, which cleans up the rivers in my part of the world, and in environmental waste. Does she know that the old landfills are leaching tonnes of ammonia into our rivers every year? If we do not do something about it, the 27.5 tonnes of ammonia that go into one Oxford river every year will continue to do so, and that will happen all over the country.
2015-03-12b.396.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Elizabeth Truss	I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. Since 2010, phosphates and sulphides in water have reduced. That is positive progress, but of course he is absolutely right: there is more to do. That is why we have just launched the water element of the countryside stewardship programme, which provides incentives to do just that.
2015-03-12b.396.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Cheryl Gillan	With so many large infrastructure projects in the pipeline, what input has the Secretary of State had in looking at the cumulative environmental impact of projects such as High Speed 2 and airport expansion? How many meetings has she had with the Department for Transport and HS2 Ltd, and how regular are those meetings?
2015-03-12b.396.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Dan Rogerson	Ministers, including my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, have regular meetings throughout the year with Ministers from other Departments, and of course, at official level, we engage very strongly across Departments on such issues. Planning guidance on the need to protect our environment is absolutely clear.
2015-03-12b.396.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Ian Lavery	The Minister will be aware of the current price war in the supermarkets with regard to the price of a loaf of bread. Sainsbury’s is selling Hovis at 75p a loaf. What can Ministers do to ensure that that does not adversely impact people working in the baking industry?
2015-03-12b.396.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	George Eustice	The supermarket adjudicator requires retailers to stick to the terms of contracts, not retrospectively to hit suppliers or unreasonably request them to take part in promotions. Through the groceries code and the adjudicator, we have measures in place to deal with the problems that the hon. Gentleman cites.
2015-03-12b.396.5	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Tim Loughton	Shoreham in my constituency has a flourishing houseboat community, which adds to the colour of our town. Alas, it also adds to the colour of the water flowing into Shoreham harbour until high tide washes it away, as few boats have sewage tanks or are linked to drainage on the shore. Do the Government have any plans to tighten up on pollution from boats used as homes?
2015-03-12b.396.6	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Dan Rogerson	The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to highlight potential risks from sewage pollution in water. If the Environment Agency can demonstrate a problem, it can issue a notice within 3 nautical miles of an area of operation. Since 1994, all new recreational craft should be fitted with holding tanks that allow managed discharge. Larger vessels are covered by maritime conventions. If there are specific issues in his area and he would like to write to me about them, I will get him a more detailed answer from the agency.
2015-03-12b.396.7	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Chi Onwurah	We heard earlier of the broadband and other problems of those trying to access rural payments. I know personally the dire experience of broadband services across much of Northumberland, so three years after Labour’s universal broadband commitment would have come into force, will the Secretary of State admit that this Government have sacrificed the rural economy in order to subsidise a monopoly roll-out by BT of superfast broadband mainly in urban and semi-urban areas?
2015-03-12b.397.0	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Elizabeth Truss	During this Parliament, we have seen superfast broadband coverage rise from 43% to 80%, and we are seeing connectivity improving in rural areas and the gap between rural and urban areas close in terms of productivity and earnings, as well as better road connections, such as the dualling of the A11.
2015-03-12b.397.1	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Neil Parish	I welcome the Secretary of State’s help for dairy farming through exports, public procurement and general support, but what talks has she had with the banks? I think milk prices will improve, but the banks need to support farmers in the meantime.
2015-03-12b.397.2	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	George Eustice	My hon. Friend makes an important point. There will be short-term cash-flow pressures on farmers who are currently receiving low prices and in some cases have quite high costs. I have had a meeting already with the banks to discuss this and to encourage them to show forbearance. As the Secretary of State said earlier, we have also been encouraging HMRC to show forbearance to those farmers facing difficulties, and I will continue to monitor the issue closely.
2015-03-12b.397.3	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	Andrew George	May I urge the Government to reconsider their policy? Although they offer support for bovine TB badger vaccination projects in edge areas, they do not provide that same support in so-called hot-spot areas. I have been working with the Zoological Society of London on a project which has just been very successfully rolled out for its first pilot this year in Penwith. I urge the Government to look at that seriously, because projects in hot spots could make a telling and important contribution to bearing down on bovine TB.
2015-03-12b.397.4	ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS	Topical Questions	George Eustice	I have met the hon. Gentleman to discuss this issue. He is aware that we have made an offer at DEFRA to give some support to that project in his constituency, notably to provide it with free vaccines and some equipment. However, the edge area vaccination scheme is in the edge area for a very good reason: the vaccine does not cure badgers that already have the disease. There is logic to using the vaccine in the edge area, to create a buffer to prevent the spread of the disease, but less so in the high-risk areas.
2015-03-12b.426.1	Business of the House	Ebola	James Gray	The contribution made by the armed services, 750 of them, the Royal Fleet Auxiliary Argus and the Merlin helicopters, has been superb, and it would not have been possible to battle against Ebola in this way without them. I look forward to welcoming them back here to Parliament in the autumn perhaps. In the meantime, does the Secretary of State, or perhaps the Minister for the Armed Forces who is sitting next to her, agree that if we were to see unwelcome defence cuts, such operations in the future and elsewhere in the world would not be possible?
2015-03-12b.447.4	Business of the House	Backbench Business — Defence Spending	Menzies Campbell	Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am not sure whether to call you colonel on this occasion. I, like others, have been greatly impressed by the quality of the debate so far. I agree with much of what has been said, but let me pick up on a couple of points. First, it is right to say that defence does not win votes, but poor defence can certainly lose them if the public form the view that we are not fulfilling our primary objective—their protection. Secondly, the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) made an extremely eloquent speech, but I say to him that there was no option but to abandon the maritime patrol aircraft. The original decision to go with Nimrod was questioned by the Defence Committee at the time. Other alternatives were available, for example, the P-3 Orion, but the decision was taken, I believe by Mr Secretary Portillo, that Nimrod it should be. A final irony was that Nimrod, the mighty hunter, never actually fulfilled his responsibility. Let us consider the following: “The Ministry of Defence is being led by the nose by the Treasury towards reductions in Britain’s armed forces which have no rational basis”. The House will not recognise that quotation, and neither did I until the BBC drew to my attention, in an article written for its website, that in my capacity as defence spokesman for the Liberal Democrats in August 1991 I had said just that. I do not introduce that to offer some support for the view that I am wise; I do so to point out that nothing seems to have changed. My proposition was put rather more pithily by my right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Sir Nicholas Soames) , who said that after four years as Minister of State for the Armed Forces he formed the clear view that the enemy was not the Russians, but the Treasury. Some things have changed, though, and the point has been made by the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Mr Havard) . When I first came into this House and took an interest in these matters, we had five days of the parliamentary year to consider defence. We had a two-day debate on the annual White Paper at the beginning of October, and then each of the services had a single day of discussion devoted to them. When the three service days were amalgamated we were confidently assured that it would not result in fewer opportunities to hold the Government to account—people can form their own view about the value of that assurance. I have been through it all: “Options for Change”; Front Line First; and Labour’s so-called “defence review” of 1998. That came closest of all to being a proper defence review, except for one thing: Labour refused to publish its foreign policy baseline attributes or intentions. As a consequence, what was otherwise a first-class exercise, with consultation the length and breadth of the country, driven by the then Secretary of State, now Lord Robertson, and with Lord Reid, as he now is, a very important part of it, that was the closest we have come to a defence review. We have not, even in this Parliament, had a defence review. It is an open secret that in 2010 the MOD was told, “Here is a metaphorical envelope containing money. Go away and find a defence policy that fits that sum of money.”
2015-03-17b.621.4	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Bob Blackman	What steps his Department is taking to protect children who are at risk of grooming.
2015-03-17b.621.5	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Tim Loughton	What steps his Department is taking to protect children who are at risk of grooming.
2015-03-17b.621.6	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Simon Hughes	We have taken action to enable the police to intervene earlier to protect children where there is a suspicion that grooming has taken place. As a result of the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015, which amended section 15 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, we have reduced from two to one the number of initial occasions on which the defendant meets or communicates with a child considered at risk before prosecution can take place. I hope the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) believes that the Government are absolutely committed to making sure the law is as tough as it needs be to deal with this very serious evil.
2015-03-17b.621.7	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Bob Blackman	I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. I am not sure if he has had a chance to study the report published today by the Communities and Local Government Committee on child sexual exploitation in Rotherham. What is clear from that report is the catastrophic failure of all public services to protect vulnerable young girls. It is also clear that Rotherham is not an isolated case. What is apparent is that the victims have not been provided with the support they require and they were not believed by the authorities and were not protected when issues came to court. What further action can my right hon. Friend propose that will ensure that the victims are given support and protection through the justice system?
2015-03-17b.621.8	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Simon Hughes	I am very clear that the point the hon. Gentleman raises is centrally important. I am aware of the report that has come out today, but I have not read it in full. The failing in the past has been that the young people have not been listened to and heard and, when they have spoken out, people have not believed them. Public authorities, the Crown Prosecution Service and the rest of the prosecuting authorities must work on the presumption that when young people say something, it is true and not false, and we should work on that basis.
2015-03-17b.622.0	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Tim Loughton	In 2011 the child sexual exploitation plan issued by the Government tasked the Ministry of Justice to do certain things in respect of child sexual exploitation, including having a more practical and effective response to witness intimidation, supporting witnesses throughout the criminal justice process, for the CPS to promote within its organisation examples of good practice in relation to child sexual exploitation and work to increase the use of special measures in appropriate cases. Will the Minister give us an update on what progress has been made against those specific measures?
2015-03-17b.622.1	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Simon Hughes	I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his continuing interest in this issue. As well as the working group he mentioned, which found that there were gaps in the availability of services and commissioning, the Government have strengthened the non-statutory services and put more money in to make sure they are able more competently to deal with this. The figure I have is £7 million—that was an announcement we made in December—which includes increased funds for the existing female rape support centres and greater support for organisations supporting victims in areas where there is a high prevalence of child abuse, such as Rotherham. Secondly, as well as the new offence of sexual communication with a child, we are legislating to remove references to child prostitution and child pornography from the Sexual Offences Act and making sure that the offence of loitering or soliciting for the purpose of prostitution applies only to adults. We have to protect children.
2015-03-17b.622.2	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Helen Jones	The right hon. Gentleman will know that many of the victims in these cases have been profoundly damaged by their experiences and need a great deal of support, including mental health support. Will he ensure that prosecutors do not deter them from accessing that support, as has often happened in the past, but work to ensure that they are supported through the ordeal of going to trial, because that is not only beneficial to them, but ensures that more cases can be prosecuted?
2015-03-17b.622.3	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Simon Hughes	There are two points. First, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and all Ministers are very clear that when vulnerable individuals go into the criminal justice system we must identify whether in fact the issue that needs to be addressed is a mental health issue or is a drugs issue or something else. So we try to prevent people from going through the criminal justice system because it is not user-friendly, particularly for young people. If there is no alternative, we need to make sure that steps are taken, for example that youngsters do not have to come to court but can appear from a distance, such as by video-link, and that they are supported through the whole of that process, not just through the court case but a considerable time thereafter.
2015-03-17b.622.4	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Jim Shannon	Has the Minister considered closer co-operation with the Department for Education to make this matter a staple subject in the curriculum? Would he further consider training for voluntary groups so that they can be aware of the telltale signs of grooming?
2015-03-17b.623.0	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Simon Hughes	The hon. Gentleman is right to raise that issue. NSPCC research has shown that six in 10 teenagers have been asked for sexual images or videos online. That is an extraordinary figure, and many of them feel compelled to provide those images as a result of peer group pressure. We are absolutely convinced across the Government, including in the Department for Education, that personal, social, health and economic education—of which sex education is a part—is an important strategy. We need such an education process in the curriculum in every school to warn youngsters of the dangers, so that they know how to deal with them.
2015-03-17b.623.2	JUSTICE	Rehabilitation Services	Gareth Johnson	What assessment he has made of the performance of new providers of rehabilitation services in the rehabilitation of short-term prisoners.
2015-03-17b.623.3	JUSTICE	Rehabilitation Services	Simon Hughes	The coalition is committed to transforming rehabilitation in order to reduce reoffending and, consequently, to reduce the number of people who are victims of crime. Since 1 February under the new system, providers from the public, voluntary and private sectors have been providing the new transforming rehabilitation services. The crucial thing is that all those people who are currently sentenced to less than a year in prison will have support when they come out. They are the people who reoffend most and who cause the most victims. Payments to providers will be dependent on results.
2015-03-17b.623.4	JUSTICE	Rehabilitation Services	Mr Speaker	I realise that the Minister is not a prisoner, but I am not sure that being forced to answer so many questions will aid his rehabilitation when he is obviously struggling with a very sore throat. That seems to be a considerable unkindness.
2015-03-17b.623.5	JUSTICE	Rehabilitation Services	Gareth Johnson	I welcome the measures that the Ministry of Justice has taken to work with short-term prisoners. I think that this is the first time we have ever seen that happening, and it has become possible only because of the pioneering approach of the Ministry. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is vital to work with short-term prisoners, who often have more deeply rooted offending behaviour than many other types of offenders?
2015-03-17b.623.6	JUSTICE	Rehabilitation Services	Simon Hughes	I am grateful to you for your concern, Mr Speaker. The Secretary of State offered me the chance to opt out, but I volunteered to come here and do my duty, so I hope I am forgiven. I might have to curl up and hide in the corner in a minute, however. I would say to the hon. Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) that in the year ending last March, 57% of all adult offenders released from custody after serving a sentence of less than 12 months reoffended within a year. They are the largest group of reoffenders. They are the people who cause the most victims the most grief and the criminal justice system the most cost. We have never had a Government who have dealt with this issue, but we have been determined to do so and I believe that the way in which we rehabilitate those people will be transformational.
2015-03-17b.624.0	JUSTICE	Rehabilitation Services	Mr Speaker	The Minister’s virtue is not in doubt.
2015-03-17b.624.1	JUSTICE	Rehabilitation Services	Keith Vaz	I welcome the Government’s decision to introduce drug scanners into prisons. As the Minister knows, 51% of prisoners report a drug dependency. Can he tell me how many have entered a rehabilitation scheme in the past year, and how many have been successfully rehabilitated in relation to their use of drugs?
2015-03-17b.624.2	JUSTICE	Rehabilitation Services	Simon Hughes	I do not have all the details, but I will ensure that the right hon. Gentleman has a detailed answer, which I will put in the Library. Yesterday, when I was visiting a women’s prison in Yorkshire, I was looking at how we might improve the way in which we detect drugs. It is difficult because they are often hidden in very private places. We are absolutely determined to stop drugs coming into prisons over the wall, but also to stop them coming in on the person, which is a serious issue. I will give him the detailed figures on what progress we are making.
2015-03-17b.624.3	JUSTICE	Rehabilitation Services	Russell Brown	I, along with a small group of colleagues from the House, visited Brixton prison towards the back end of last year. We saw the benefits of the work that is being undertaken in two facilities there: the Clink restaurant and the Bad Boys bakery. Those benefits include a reoffending rate of only about 3%. That is the kind of work that short-term offenders need to give them the chance to restart their lives in a positive way.
2015-03-17b.624.4	JUSTICE	Rehabilitation Services	Simon Hughes	Within the Department, I have particular responsibility for all female offenders. I have visited every single female prison and I am clear that the schemes that rehabilitate people through engaging with them and planning for training, work and housing are absolutely central. We are committed to using such schemes. May I also take this opportunity to say that there are some phenomenally excellent leadership teams in all our prisons, as well as many other people who are assisting with this project? The hon. Gentleman is right to suggest that we need to give people incentives so that they can see their route out of prison and understand that life outside is better. That will give them hope for the future.
2015-03-17b.624.6	JUSTICE	Legal Aid	Henry Bellingham	When he next plans to meet representatives from (a) the Law Society and (b) the Bar Council to discuss legal aid.
2015-03-17b.624.7	JUSTICE	Legal Aid	Shailesh Vara	Throughout the development of the “Transforming Legal Aid” package of reform, my officials and I regularly met the Law Society, the Bar Council and other members of the legal profession. Officials from the Department and the Legal Aid Agency continue to be in regular contact with the representative bodies as we implement the reforms.
2015-03-17b.625.0	JUSTICE	Legal Aid	Henry Bellingham	I thank the Minister for that reply. Is he aware that I represent a number of constituents involved with family law cases, including one young mother who is contesting adoption proceedings? She received legal aid for the substantive hearing, but she is now appealing and, unfortunately, cannot get legal aid. Has he made any assessment of the impact of the cost in respect of litigants in person within the family division? Without increasing the overall legal aid budget, will he consider some reallocation of resources within it to solve this particular problem?
2015-03-17b.625.1	JUSTICE	Legal Aid	Shailesh Vara	I thank my hon. Friend for his question and say to him that we do have one of the most generous legal aid budgets in the world and we have made sure that we provide legal aid assistance for those who need it.
2015-03-17b.625.2	JUSTICE	Legal Aid	Kelvin Hopkins	In a previous Question Time, I raised the problem of victims of domestic abuse apparently being deterred from going to law because of the cuts in legal aid. Has the Minister discussed the matter with representatives of the law authorities? Does he have any statistics to confirm these reports?
2015-03-17b.625.3	JUSTICE	Legal Aid	Shailesh Vara	We have paid particular attention to those who have been victims of domestic violence and we are very keen that, wherever possible, we will give legal aid to make sure that people get out of the abusive relationships in which they are caught.
2015-03-17b.625.4	JUSTICE	Legal Aid	Andrew Gwynne	Following on from that, on how many occasions have victims of domestic violence had their legal aid funding stopped because of the rule changes for evidence now being more than two years old? The Minister must have that information to hand.
2015-03-17b.625.5	JUSTICE	Legal Aid	Shailesh Vara	What I will tell the hon. Gentleman is that this issue has been the subject of a huge amount of misunderstanding among the wider public, not least because of the misinformation imparted by people such as himself. On two occasions we have increased the criteria on the required evidence, once during the passage of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 and subsequently when we found that more evidence was required.
2015-03-17b.625.7	JUSTICE	Legal Aid Budget	David Mowat	What progress he has made on reducing the legal aid budget
2015-03-17b.625.8	JUSTICE	Legal Aid Budget	Shailesh Vara	In 2009-10, as this Government took office, £2.2 billion was spent on legal aid. Following our two major reform programmes, spend has fallen to £1.7 billion in 2013-14 and is expected to fall to about £1.5 billion once the reforms have fully worked through the system.
2015-03-17b.625.9	JUSTICE	Legal Aid Budget	David Mowat	I thank the Minister for that answer. A month ago in the High Court, Lord Justice Laws described the Government’s proposal to have two-tier contracting as reasonable, “proportionate” and a “proper way” to proceed. The case has now gone to the Court of Appeal and a decision is expected imminently. Can the Minister confirm that, subject to that decision, he will be proceeding in this Parliament with a tendering process and not be constrained by what appears to be legal time wasting?
2015-03-17b.626.0	JUSTICE	Legal Aid Budget	Shailesh Vara	Having successfully defended a challenge in the High Court, we robustly defended our position in the Court of Appeal and are awaiting judgment. If the appeal is dismissed, it is our intention to continue the tender that is currently subject to an injunction as soon as possible.
2015-03-17b.626.1	JUSTICE	Legal Aid Budget	Valerie Vaz	Access to justice is one of the cornerstones of our democracy. Given the reductions in legal aid, can the Minister say whether there has been a rise or a fall in the number of litigants in person?
2015-03-17b.626.2	JUSTICE	Legal Aid Budget	Shailesh Vara	I believe there has been a rise in litigants in person, but the Government have also made a huge amount of provision to cater for that. I also say to the hon. Lady and Opposition Front Benchers, who have never said that they are going to reverse the cuts that we have made, that we need a legal aid system that is sustainable, for the people who need it, for the legal providers and for the taxpayers who pay for it.
2015-03-17b.626.3	JUSTICE	Legal Aid Budget	Alan Beith	Has the Minister noted the Justice Committee’s conclusion that although the Government had achieved the cost reduction, there was some transfer of cost to other budgets and far too little availability of the exceptional cases fund, and that mediation, far from increasing, had actually dropped?
2015-03-17b.626.4	JUSTICE	Legal Aid Budget	Shailesh Vara	May I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question? As far as exceptional funding is concerned, the giveaway is in the title. The fund is meant to be exceptional, but some people have seen it as a discretionary fund. Not surprisingly, therefore, the numbers involved in it have been few. I understand that the right hon. Gentleman is retiring at the end of this Parliament. Let me say what a pleasure it has been to work with him. I may not always have agreed with him, but working with him has always been a pleasure, and I wish him well for the future.
2015-03-17b.626.5	JUSTICE	Legal Aid Budget	Andy Slaughter	Perhaps the Minister should listen to the Chair of the Justice Committee and read his report that found that the Government had failed in three of their four objectives for legal aid: they have not discouraged unnecessary litigation; they have not targeted legal aid to those who need it the most; and they have not delivered better value for money for the taxpayer. That is what the report says. Does the Minister agree that that abject failure is a fitting epitaph for the least competent Lord Chancellor since the Reformation?
2015-03-17b.626.6	JUSTICE	Legal Aid Budget	Shailesh Vara	It is always helpful if shadow Ministers do their homework. The proposals to which the hon. Gentleman refers were achieved by the previous Lord Chancellor. As far as his comment on the Justice Committee’s report is concerned, I do not hear him or his boss saying that they will be reversing any of the cuts that we have made. If they want to do that, the shadow Chancellor will have plenty of opportunity so to do in due course.
2015-03-17b.627.1	JUSTICE	Claims-handling Companies	John Mann	What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of his Department's oversight of claims-handling companies.
2015-03-17b.627.2	JUSTICE	Claims-handling Companies	Shailesh Vara	Tackling bad practices by claims management companies is a priority for the Department’s claims management regulator. Recent measures taken to strengthen the effectiveness regulation include tougher rules to crack down on malpractice and a new power to impose financial penalties on CMCs that break the rules. Since regulation began in 2007, the licences of more than 1,200 CMCs have been removed. Between April and December 2014, we stepped up enforcement action, with 338 CMCs being warned for poor conduct or having their licences removed.
2015-03-17b.627.3	JUSTICE	Claims-handling Companies	John Mann	The whole country is sick of these companies ringing up day and night leaving answerphone messages and harassing pensioners. When it comes to PPI mis-selling, they are taking half the money that is due to decent people purely for writing a letter to a bank asking it to investigate the matter. We need to expose the sham of these companies more effectively, because, across the country, people are losing out and are getting increasingly sick of their behaviour.
2015-03-17b.627.4	JUSTICE	Claims-handling Companies	Shailesh Vara	I agree that many people are very upset with the behaviour of those companies. In fact, millions of people are upset with what is happening. This is something that requires joined-up activity. The claims management regulator is working closely with the primary enforcement agencies at the Information Commissioner’s office and at Ofcom to investigate practices and take firm enforcement action against rogue companies. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that much work on nuisance calls has already been done and that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport is leading on reforms in this area. Last year, for example, the Department published a joint action plan, involving all the relevant regulators, including the Information Commissioner’s office, Ofcom and the claims management regulator.
2015-03-17b.627.6	JUSTICE	Victims of Crime	Debbie Abrahams	What his strategy is for supporting victims of crime.
2015-03-17b.627.7	JUSTICE	Victims of Crime	Chris Grayling	The Government are committed to putting victims and witnesses first in the criminal justice system and to ensuring that they have high quality, effective and timely support to help them cope and, as far as possible, recover from the effects of crime. We published our document on commitments to victims in September 2014 and introduced a package of reforms that will provide even more support to victims, including establishing a new nationwide victims’ information service, strengthening the protection of vulnerable victims and witnesses at court, increasing transparency and accountability so that agencies are held to account for the services that they provide, and planning a victims law, setting out entitlements for victims in primary legislation. It is also worth saying that, under this Government, funding for services to support victims of crime has more than doubled to some £92 million in the coming financial year.
2015-03-17b.628.0	JUSTICE	Victims of Crime	Debbie Abrahams	Murdered police officer Nicola Hughes was one of my constituents. Her father, Bryn, has worked relentlessly to campaign and raise funding for victims of crime, especially children, to help those who have lost a family member to violent crime and to keep Nicola’s memory alive. Bryn’s own experience of the criminal justice system was not a good one. Will the Secretary of State confirm that he will be supporting the proposals for a victims law in Labour’s victims taskforce report, which will transform the experience of victims and witnesses in the criminal justice system?
2015-03-17b.628.1	JUSTICE	Victims of Crime	Chris Grayling	Let me first pay tribute to the hon. Lady’s constituent. We were all horrified and shocked by the terrible events that led to his loss. I extend my condolences, my gratitude to him, and indeed my gratitude to all the families of murder victims who have turned a terrible experience into positive work to help support the victims of crime, and to try to prevent these terrible events happening in future. We all owe them a debt of gratitude. It is clearly not our intention to allow the Labour party an opportunity to introduce a victims law, but it will be the intention of a Conservative Government to do just that and to continue the work we have been doing in this Parliament to extend the support provided to victims.
2015-03-17b.628.2	JUSTICE	Victims of Crime	David Burrowes	At the Justice Secretary’s first Question Time, he spoke of the importance of ensuring that victims get timely information. As this is the last Justice Question Time of this Parliament, will he update the House on what progress has been made in using technology to ensure that victims are put first when it comes to information about their cases?
2015-03-17b.628.3	JUSTICE	Victims of Crime	Chris Grayling	We are making good progress towards the introduction of the victims information service, which will signpost victims to services available locally. We intend to mesh that with the current system for tracking crimes, so that we have a single point where victims can find out the situation with the case they are going through. It is really important that we do the right thing for victims, and we have done as much as any previous Government to step forward and provide that support.
2015-03-17b.628.4	JUSTICE	Victims of Crime	William McCrea	The Secretary of State must acknowledge that many victims of crime feel that the criminals have more rights and protection than they do. For many that is not only a perception, but a reality. Therefore, we urgently need not only a strategy to support victims through the very difficult circumstances of their trauma, but to prove through the sentencing process that crime does not pay.
2015-03-17b.628.5	JUSTICE	Victims of Crime	Chris Grayling	I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I am pleased that under this Government sentence lengths have increased. It is absolutely right and proper that those who commit crimes should serve a proper period of recompense for what they have done. Of course, it is also important that we rehabilitate them to ensure that they do not do it again.
2015-03-17b.629.0	JUSTICE	Victims of Crime	Dan Jarvis	The whole House will have been disturbed by the story of Geraldine and Peter McGinty, parents who lost their son and have been repeatedly let down by the criminal justice system. After they heard from a judge last year that their victims’ personal statement would make no difference, the Justice Secretary met them and promised that they would be kept informed about the progress of their case. This month they were among the last to learn that their son’s killers are being released into an open prison. Does the Justice Secretary agree that the fact that victims can be forgotten like that, even after he personally intervened in the case, shows just why we need our plan for a victims law?
2015-03-17b.629.1	JUSTICE	Victims of Crime	Chris Grayling	First of all, I have now met Mr and Mrs McGinty twice, including with the chief executive of the Parole Board, who apologised to them for the lack of information provided to them, and rightly so. This is about good practice and people behaving in the right way, and I am afraid that this kind of issue will not be solved by changes to the law; it will be solved by changing the culture in the system.
2015-03-17b.629.3	JUSTICE	Youth Reoffending	David Amess	What steps he is taking to reduce youth reoffending.
2015-03-17b.629.4	JUSTICE	Youth Reoffending	Andrew Selous	The Government are committed to reducing offending and reoffending by young people. We are placing education at the heart of detention and improving resettlement processes, which will provide young offenders with the skills and support they need to build a life free from crime. We are also working to ensure that community youth services are as effective as possible in helping young people to adopt law-abiding lives, including through their role in delivering key cross-Government programmes such as the troubled families initiative.
2015-03-17b.629.5	JUSTICE	Youth Reoffending	David Amess	Can my hon. Friend reassure me that changes to the probation service will reduce youth reoffending through a new culture and direction of travel? I, for one, would not wish to see senior managers reinventing themselves in these new community rehabilitation company positions.
2015-03-17b.629.6	JUSTICE	Youth Reoffending	Andrew Selous	I know that my hon. Friend takes a serious interest in these matters—indeed, I have met with him to discuss them. The number of first-time entrants into the criminal justice system who are young people fell by 59% in the four years to September 2014. We are also focusing on resettlement consortia in four high custody areas. We have a Turn Around to Work initiative in London and Greater Manchester, which is supported by a number of employers. We are also doubling the number of hours in education.
2015-03-17b.629.7	JUSTICE	Youth Reoffending	Julian Huppert	Obviously, the way to tackle youth offending is to tackle the causes. We know that mental health problems play a substantial role in youth offending. That is one reason that I welcome the Deputy Prime Minister’s announcement of a £1.25 billion investment in young people’s mental health, but what is the Ministry of Justice doing to try to make sure that young people with mental health problems—in or out of prison—get the support they need so they are treated rather than jailed?
2015-03-17b.630.0	JUSTICE	Youth Reoffending	Andrew Selous	I can give my hon. Friend good news on that front. Under this Government we have rolled out the liaison and diversion service—only last week, I visited the excellent scheme up in Wakefield—which is going to cover 50% of the country. It has made very good progress and is an excellent example of partnership working, and I look to seeing it expanded further.
2015-03-17b.630.2	JUSTICE	Access to Justice	Julie Hilling	What steps he plans to take to ensure access to justice regardless of ability to pay.
2015-03-17b.630.3	JUSTICE	Access to Justice	Shailesh Vara	The Government’s reform programme to promote access to justice aims to deliver a justice system that is more accessible to the public. It aims to support people in resolving their disputes through simpler, more informal remedies, and to limit the scope for inappropriate litigation and the involvement of lawyers in issues which do not need legal input.
2015-03-17b.630.4	JUSTICE	Access to Justice	Julie Hilling	Let me give the Minister one more chance to answer a question on last week’s Justice Committee report on the civil legal aid cuts, which revealed that the Government have failed to achieve all three of their targets. Can the Minister confirm that there has been an underspend in the legal aid budget, and that exceptional case funding has failed to achieve the aim of protecting access to justice for the most vulnerable?
2015-03-17b.630.5	JUSTICE	Access to Justice	Shailesh Vara	For the benefit of the hon. Lady, let me say once again that if it were not for the Government whom she supported causing the mess that they did, we would not have been obliged to make the cuts we have had to make. Despite making them, we still have one of the most generous legal aid budgets in the world.
2015-03-17b.630.6	JUSTICE	Access to Justice	Charlie Elphicke	Can the Minister tell the House how our legal aid budget compares internationally?
2015-03-17b.630.7	JUSTICE	Access to Justice	Shailesh Vara	As I said, we compare very favourably internationally. We have one of the most generous legal aid budgets in the world, and that is after the cuts have come through.
2015-03-17b.630.8	JUSTICE	Access to Justice	Sadiq Khan	It is a fact that the Government’s cuts to legal aid have denied thousands access to legal advice. The Government’s changes to tribunal and court fees are having an additional impact on women and other vulnerable groups. The number of victims of domestic violence receiving legal aid has fallen significantly, and the number of sex discrimination claims is down by 90%. Unless the Government genuinely believe that this is an indication of significant improvements to society—that it indicates less domestic violence and less sex discrimination—women are being denied access to justice. Will the Government agree to an urgent review of the impact of the changes they have made on women and other vulnerable groups?
2015-03-17b.631.0	JUSTICE	Access to Justice	Shailesh Vara	In that very long contribution from the right hon. Gentleman, it is regrettable that not once did he say that if he were Lord Chancellor, he would reverse the cuts we have made. That sums up where the Opposition are: they are happy to object, they are happy to write articles— [Interruption.] Yes, the right hon. Gentleman points to the public. I point to the public as well, and I say that nowhere did the right hon. Gentleman say that Labour would reverse the cuts we have made. [Interruption.]
2015-03-17b.631.1	JUSTICE	Access to Justice	Mr Speaker	Order. Members must calm down. The right hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) is a distinguished ornament of this House, a celebrated figure, a former Minister. Decorum, I remind her.
2015-03-17b.631.2	JUSTICE	Access to Justice	Fiona Mactaggart	The Minister did not answer the question.
2015-03-17b.631.3	JUSTICE	Access to Justice	Mr Speaker	When the right hon. Lady was a Minister, she had to answer questions. She is not burdened with that responsibility at present.
2015-03-17b.631.5	JUSTICE	Reoffending Rates	Adam Afriyie	What steps his Department has taken to reduce reoffending rates.
2015-03-17b.631.6	JUSTICE	Reoffending Rates	Chris Grayling	We have opened up the delivery of rehabilitation services to a diverse range of public, private and voluntary sector providers who will be paid in full only if they are successful at reducing reoffending. Rehabilitation support is being extended to an extra 45,000 offenders on sentences of less than 12 months who have previously received little, if any, support on release and have the highest reoffending rates.
2015-03-17b.631.7	JUSTICE	Reoffending Rates	Adam Afriyie	It seems to me that there is nothing better for the economy, society and our constituents than when offenders come out of prison and stay out of prison, so my spirits are lifted to learn that across the Windsor constituency there were fewer than 100 reoffenders in the year to 2013. Does the Secretary of State agree that we must continue to do all we can to help ex-offenders back into work and to help them regain a foothold in our society?
2015-03-17b.631.8	JUSTICE	Reoffending Rates	Chris Grayling	Absolutely—this is now the only way we can continue to drive down crime to the degree we want. We have fewer first-time offenders, as the Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) , said earlier, and that is good news. Crime increasing is caused by people going round and round the system. I believe that for the first time in decades, we have real chance of making a serious impact on that by providing support to short-sentence prisoners who were previously left to walk the streets with £46 in their pockets, and not surprisingly ended up back in the same places committing the same crimes all over again.
2015-03-17b.632.1	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	Andrew Bridgen	What steps he is taking to ensure the safety of prisoners and staff on the prison estate.
2015-03-17b.632.2	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	Chris Grayling	We are committed to delivering safe, decent and secure prisons. Reducing the number of deaths in custody is a key priority, and we are working hard to reduce levels of violence in our prisons. We have introduced a new protocol that will ensure that when there are serious assaults on prison staff, the perpetrators will be prosecuted wherever possible.
2015-03-17b.632.3	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	Andrew Bridgen	What does the Secretary of State believe the new protocol between the Prison Service, the Crown Prosecution Service and the Association of Chief Police Officers will deliver with regard to prison safety?
2015-03-17b.632.4	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	Chris Grayling	I hope that it will make a big difference to our staff. I pay tribute to prison staff, who do a difficult job. It is particularly difficult at the moment, with an upsurge in violence. A lot of that is due to the prevalence of so-called legal highs—new psychoactive substances—in our prisons. We have taken a number of steps to try to restrict access to those drugs, which are absolutely unacceptable in our prisons. When serious assaults previously took place, prosecutions might not have happened because those people were in jail. Now, they will, and I hope that will be a deterrent.
2015-03-17b.632.5	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	Ian Lavery	An obvious way of enhancing safety on the prison estate is by boosting morale, so why has there been a 0% pay award to prison staff and a threatened injunction from the Secretary of State if those staff dare to consider opposing this imposition?
2015-03-17b.632.6	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	Chris Grayling	The prison unions asked me to implement the review of the recommendations of the public sector pay body—the Prison Service pay review body—and I have done so.
2015-03-17b.632.7	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	Eric Ollerenshaw	Given prison officers’ genuine concerns about the rates of violence and suicide in prisons, is there any chance of an independent review of the impact of benchmarking and staff reductions on those rates?
2015-03-17b.632.8	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	Chris Grayling	We will continue to review the impact of benchmarking. There is no evidence that connects changes within the prison sector to the number of suicides in prisons, which has been much too high in recent months. Suicides have happened in prisons where there have been no staffing changes, as well as ones where there have been staffing changes, and in prisons where there have been good inspection reports and poor inspection reports. This is an issue in our prisons and a broader issue in society as a whole, and we must all work hard to deal with it.
2015-03-17b.632.9	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	John McDonnell	The Secretary of State did not respond to the latter part of the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) , concerning the injunction he has threatened against the Prison Officers Association purely for convening a national executive committee meeting to discuss how to respond to the 0% pay rise. How can he justify this legal attack on the democratic rights of a trade union?
2015-03-17b.633.0	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	Chris Grayling	The hon. Gentleman will be aware that, in law, prison officers are not permitted to strike. I have done what I said I would do for the unions, which is to implement in full the recommendation of the pay review body.
2015-03-17b.633.1	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	Jenny Chapman	The situation in our prisons is dire. Many times over the years we have heard the word “crisis” used. I have to say that the situation now is as bad as I have ever seen it. The most recent quarterly prison safety report makes exceptionally grim reading, with serious assaults on staff at an all-time high. Grimmer still was an e-mail I received from an officer who said: “I have been a prison officer for 17 years. I have never felt so vulnerable before, we have had another serious assault on a member of staff that has required treatment. Do you have any idea what it’s like to go to work feeling scared?” Is it not an outrageous truth that violence has become an occupational hazard for our prison officers?
2015-03-17b.633.2	JUSTICE	Prisoner and Staff Safety	Chris Grayling	The hon. Lady is absolutely right that the rise in serious violence in our prisons is wholly unacceptable. It is pretty clear to me that the biggest cause of that change has been the presence of so-called legal highs—new psychoactive substances—in our prisons. Only last Friday, I spoke to a prison governor who said that it is the key problem that staff face. We have taken a number of steps, including criminalising the throwing of substances over a wall in prisons. We are about to trial body scanners in our prisons. We will take all steps that we sensibly can to protect our staff. These substances are a danger to our society as a whole. They need to be dealt with effectively in our prisons, and they will be.
2015-03-17b.633.4	JUSTICE	Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act (Section 28 Pilots)	Ann Coffey	What recent assessment he has made of the outcome of the pilots of section 28 of the Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act 1999.
2015-03-17b.633.5	JUSTICE	Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act (Section 28 Pilots)	Shailesh Vara	Recorded pre-trial cross-examination is designed to help vulnerable witnesses to give their best possible evidence and to spare them the trauma of being cross-examined in front of a jury and the public. The hon. Lady will know that we have been piloting the scheme in Liverpool, Leeds and Kingston upon Thames Crown courts, and that the pilots ended in October 2014. Interim findings from the evaluation of the pilots are awaited, and an announcement of the plans for any future roll-out of the scheme will be made in due course.
2015-03-17b.633.6	JUSTICE	Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act (Section 28 Pilots)	Ann Coffey	I recently visited the recorder of Liverpool, Judge Goldstone, who said that the section 28 pilot in Liverpool had resulted in a sea change in culture in court: cross-examinations without the aggressive barracking and repetitive questions of defence lawyers, and impressive outcomes in the reduction of stress and anxiety in children. Does the Minister agree that if the pilot was rolled out to every court, it would hugely increase the confidence of child witnesses in the criminal justice system?
2015-03-17b.634.0	JUSTICE	Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act (Section 28 Pilots)	Shailesh Vara	As I have said, we are awaiting the results of the pilots. Once we have considered them, we will take the proper action and, if necessary, roll them out further.
2015-03-17b.634.2	JUSTICE	Foreign National Offenders	Hugh Bayley	How many foreign nationals have been released from prison since May 2010.
2015-03-17b.634.3	JUSTICE	Foreign National Offenders	Andrew Selous	The total number of foreign national offenders released from prison between May 2010 and September 2014 is 38,256. That does not take into account offenders who have been transferred to an immigration removal centre, releases of indeterminate prisoners and those on home detention curfew.
2015-03-17b.634.4	JUSTICE	Foreign National Offenders	Hugh Bayley	Thousands of foreign criminals have been released from prison, and the Public Accounts Committee reported just two months ago that the number being deported is now 500 lower than it was in 2008-09 under the previous Government. The last Conservative manifesto said: “We will extend early deportation of foreign national prisoners”. What did the word “extend” mean?
2015-03-17b.634.5	JUSTICE	Foreign National Offenders	Andrew Selous	I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the number of foreign national offenders in our prisons doubled when his Government were in power. This Government have brought the number down: from 11,135 in June 2010 to 10,503. He is of course right that we have further work to do. We have signed prisoner transfer agreements with Nigeria, Somaliland and Albania, and we are actively making sure that European Union prisoner transfer arrangements take place, notably with Poland at the end of next year. We are absolutely focused on continuing to make progress on this important issue.
2015-03-17b.634.6	JUSTICE	Foreign National Offenders	Philip Hollobone	When a foreign national commits a crime in the United Kingdom, they should be sent back to where they came from and banned from ever returning. Should we not also compulsorily transfer prisoners from our jails to prisons in their own countries? What new compulsory transfer agreements are the Government working on?
2015-03-17b.634.7	JUSTICE	Foreign National Offenders	Andrew Selous	I commend my hon. Friend’s persistence, as always, on this issue. The introduction of the Immigration Act 2014 will make a significant difference. It gives us the ability to deport people first, allowing foreign national offenders to appeal in their home country later. We have reduced the number of appeal options from 17 to four, which is starting to make a difference.
2015-03-17b.634.9	JUSTICE	Victims (Protection and Support)	Andrew Stephenson	What steps the Government have taken to provide greater protection and support for vulnerable victims during trials.
2015-03-17b.635.0	JUSTICE	Victims (Protection and Support)	Chris Grayling	Last September, we published “Our Commitment to Victims”, a key plank of which is supporting vulnerable victims and witnesses in court. We are doing so by establishing non-court locations for vulnerable witnesses to give their evidence using a live link, evaluating the pilots of recorded pre-trial cross-examination—I am very much of the view that that should be extended nationwide if the trial proves successful—and strengthening the training requirements for publicly funded advocates in sexual offence cases.
2015-03-17b.635.1	JUSTICE	Victims (Protection and Support)	Andrew Stephenson	My constituent Jane Clough was murdered by her ex-partner Jonathan Vass while he was out on bail. I have been very fortunate to be able to work with Jane’s parents, John and Penny Clough, in their successful fight to change the law to allow vulnerable victims to challenge judge-made bail decisions. Will my right hon. Friend confirm to the House that the provision is being used, and that vulnerable victims are being protected because of that change in the law?
2015-03-17b.635.2	JUSTICE	Victims (Protection and Support)	Chris Grayling	I commend my hon. Friend for his work in this important area. He is referring to the provision that allows Crown court decisions to grant bail to be challenged in the High Court. That exists largely through his efforts and those of John and Penny Clough, whom I also commend. The provision is used sparingly, as was intended, but bail decisions are being reversed, from time to time, as a result.
2015-03-17b.635.4	JUSTICE	Online Crime (Sentencing)	Mike Weatherley	If he will bring forward legislative proposals to reduce the disparity between sentences for physical and online crime.
2015-03-17b.635.5	JUSTICE	Online Crime (Sentencing)	Chris Grayling	The sentences that are available for crimes that are committed online are the same as those for offences that are committed offline. Fraud or malicious communications, for example, carry severe maximum penalties, whether committed online or offline. Sentencing in individual cases is a matter for the courts. Sentencing guidelines are issued by the independent Sentencing Council to help ensure that there is proportionate and consistent sentencing.
2015-03-17b.635.6	JUSTICE	Online Crime (Sentencing)	Mike Weatherley	Does my right hon. Friend agree that the report released last week that suggested that the punishments for online and offline crime should be equalised demonstrates that education is needed to show that the two sentences should be equal?
2015-03-17b.635.7	JUSTICE	Online Crime (Sentencing)	Chris Grayling	I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. I pay tribute to him, since this is his last Justice questions, for the work that he has done in this area over the past five years. He will be much missed in this place and I wish him the very best for the future. This is one area where his work has had an impact on the way in which the Government think and the way in which legislation is shaped.
2015-03-17b.635.8	JUSTICE	Online Crime (Sentencing)	Maria Miller	The growth in online crime suggests that many people still do not understand that what is illegal offline is illegal online. Has the time come to make websites and social media operators verify the identity of the people who use their services in the UK to make it easier for people to be held accountable for their actions online?
2015-03-17b.636.0	JUSTICE	Online Crime (Sentencing)	Chris Grayling	My right hon. Friend has also done important work in this area, including her success in dealing with the issue of revenge porn. I have a lot of sympathy with what she says. This area needs continuous scrutiny, and my Department and the Department for Culture, Media and Sport continue to work closely on it. It is an area in which the next Parliament will have to do further work.
2015-03-17b.636.2	JUSTICE	Prison Officers	Liz McInnes	What assessment he has made of recent trends in levels of prison officer recruitment, retention and training.
2015-03-17b.636.3	JUSTICE	Prison Officers	Andrew Selous	The National Offender Management Service is on course to recruit its target of 1,700 new prison officers by next month. The training capacity for new officers has been expanded to meet demand. There has been a small increase in the rate of leaving by new officers.
2015-03-17b.636.4	JUSTICE	Prison Officers	Liz McInnes	Will the Minister answer the final part of the question regarding the training of prison officers, which he omitted to do in his response?
2015-03-17b.636.5	JUSTICE	Prison Officers	Andrew Selous	Very willingly. I am always mindful of Mr Speaker’s injunction to keep answers short. We have a six-week residential training course to provide a custodial national vocational qualification. In time, we want to raise that to a 10-week course, but we have not been able to do so because Newbold Revel, which I visited last week, is full to bursting with prison officers. Prison officers are taught to a very high standard. On my visit last week, I spoke to prison officers in training, and I am very pleased with the excellent work that is being done there.
2015-03-17b.636.6	JUSTICE	Prison Officers	Mr Speaker	The right hon. Lady’s moment has arrived. I call Fiona Mactaggart.
2015-03-17b.636.8	JUSTICE	Domestic Violence (Legal Aid)	Fiona Mactaggart	How many women who have been victims of domestic violence applied for legal aid in proceedings relating to their children in the latest period for which figures are available; and if he will make a statement.
2015-03-17b.636.9	JUSTICE	Domestic Violence (Legal Aid)	Shailesh Vara	From July to September 2014, there were 3,097 applications for legal aid in relation to private law proceedings under the Children Act 1989. Due to the way in which data are collected, that figure includes applications where there was evidence of child abuse and applications that were made by men. I will write to the right hon. Lady to provide a breakdown of applications by gender.
2015-03-17b.637.0	JUSTICE	Domestic Violence (Legal Aid)	Fiona Mactaggart	I asked for the figures because the gateway into legal aid for victims of domestic violence requires them to provide evidence that they have been victims of domestic violence in the last two years. We know that abusers use child custody and access arrangements to further abuse their victims. What is the Minister doing about that?
2015-03-17b.637.1	JUSTICE	Domestic Violence (Legal Aid)	Shailesh Vara	What the right hon. Lady does not seem to accept is that the Minister is listening. He has increased the criteria that are required. Thousands of people have successfully applied for legal aid in domestic violence cases and many more will doubtless be successful.
2015-03-17b.637.2	JUSTICE	Domestic Violence (Legal Aid)	Mr Speaker	The patience of Pudsey is rewarded. I call Mr Stuart Andrew.
2015-03-17b.637.4	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Stuart Andrew	What steps his Department is taking to protect children who are at risk of grooming.
2015-03-17b.637.5	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Chris Grayling	In the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015, the Government amended section 15 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 to reduce the number of initial occasions on which the defendant must meet or communicate with the child in question from two to one. That will permit more effective intervention by the police in relation to individuals who could otherwise have been prosecuted only when a second contact had been established.
2015-03-17b.637.6	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Stuart Andrew	My right hon. Friend will be aware that the report into child sexual abuse in Rotherham highlighted the role of some taxi drivers in the town in facilitating abuse. The point has been raised with me that someone could apply for a licence in one authority and be rejected, but apply successfully in another authority. What measures are the Ministry of Justice and the Department for Communities and Local Government taking to prevent that happening and to safeguard children?
2015-03-17b.637.7	JUSTICE	Child Grooming	Chris Grayling	A cross-Government working group is looking at what took place in Rotherham, what lessons can be learned, and what changes can be put in place. I agree with my hon. Friend that that area should be given serious consideration.
2015-03-17b.637.9	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Anne McIntosh	If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
2015-03-17b.637.10	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Chris Grayling	I am pleased to inform the House that last month the United Kingdom hosted the Global Law Summit. The event was a major success, highlighting the importance of the legal sector to our economy, promoting the quality of our legal services abroad, and celebrating the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta. More than 2,000 delegates from 110 countries attended, and 65 countries were represented by ministerial delegations. My departmental colleagues and I had productive discussions with our international counterparts. The summit was a unique event bringing together Government Ministers, senior legal figures and business leaders from around the world, and it was probably the largest legal event of its kind ever held. I am proud that working with the legal profession, the City of London, UK Trade & Investment and a range of commercial sponsors, the Government supported that summit and the UK hosted it. It was a fantastic advert for the rule of law, our legal sector and our country.
2015-03-17b.638.0	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Anne McIntosh	Can the Justice Secretary tell the House when the principle of adverse possession has been tested in the courts recently? Does he share my understanding that an owner of land can possess that land but still allow access over it, such as, for example, in the case of a village hall at Scrayingham where the villagers have used and maintained that hall and the landowner has previously allowed access to it?
2015-03-17b.638.1	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Chris Grayling	I do not know the exact occasion on which that principle was previously tested, but I am aware of the case to which my hon. Friend refers. She and I have discussed it, and I am happy to work with her to consider whether there is a loophole in the law that should be changed.
2015-03-17b.638.2	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Sadiq Khan	In 2010 the prison riot squad was called out to prisons 118 times, which was too many. Last year it was called out 223 times—a 90% increase—and that is with 18 fewer prisons than in 2010. That is a disgrace. We have fewer prisons with fewer staff, and not enough work or training for inmates. We have record numbers of deaths in custody, and prisoner-on-prisoner and prisoner-on-staff assaults have surged. We heard a lot in 2010 about a rehabilitation revolution. Where did it go wrong?
2015-03-17b.638.3	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Chris Grayling	Let me tell the right hon. Gentleman what is actually happening. The number of prisoner qualifications is up, as is the number of hours worked in prisons. On the size of our prison estate, we will go into this election with 3,000 more adult male prison places than we had in 2010, and we have done that while bringing down the cost of the prison estate to sort out the mess left behind by the previous Government. The Labour Government brought about a crisis in our prisons that led to them having to let offenders out early because they ran out of space in our prisons. I will take no lessons from Labour about how to run our prisons.
2015-03-17b.638.4	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Sadiq Khan	Evidence, if it was needed, of a man completely out of touch. Most judges, lawyers, probation staff, prison officers, victims, court staff, and people denied access to justice believe that the right hon. Gentleman has been the worst Lord Chancellor since Lord Shaftesbury in 1673—the two of you have a thing or two in common, so you should check him out. In a poll commissioned last month, 82% of people in the legal sector said that they were more likely to vote Tory if the Justice Secretary was replaced. Why does he think the figure is not higher?
2015-03-17b.638.5	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Chris Grayling	In the last Justice questions before the election, all I get from the right hon. Gentleman is abuse. Do you know why, Mr Speaker? Since he has no policies and ideas, all he can do is resort to abuse, and that is all he ever does.
2015-03-17b.639.0	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Charlie Elphicke	Is the Lord Chancellor aware of a report by the Henry Jackson Society that shows that at least 20 foreign terrorists have used the Human Rights Act to prevent their deportation from the United Kingdom? Does that underline the need for modernisation and reform of the Human Rights Act, and its replacement with a British Bill of Rights?
2015-03-17b.639.1	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Chris Grayling	Absolutely it underlines that requirement. All of us in this House will, I suspect, be debating these matters in a lively way in the next few months. I believe we need to reform. I think the people of this country need reform. It is a matter of surprise to me that the other parties in this House do not appear to agree.
2015-03-17b.639.2	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Liz McInnes	Everyone will support attempts to prevent drugs getting into prisons. Reports at the weekend said that £15 million is to be spent on a new state-of-the-art drugs scanner for prisons. Can the Justice Secretary say when the first scanners will be in place, and which prisons will be in receipt of them first?
2015-03-17b.639.3	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Andrew Selous	We will invest in a new generation of body scanners that will help us to detect substances being smuggled into prison. In addition, the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015 introduces powers to test specific non-controlled drugs as part of mandatory drug testing. We are providing new guidance to governors. Through the Serious Crime Act 2015, it is now illegal to throw anything over the wall, including spice or any other drug.
2015-03-17b.639.4	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Tim Loughton	A couple of months ago, I asked the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government if he would speak to the Justice Secretary about the prospect of speeding up the eviction process for illegal Traveller encampments by appointing specialist magistrates who are able to sit at short notice and out of hours. Has he had that conversation and is he sympathetic to progressing this matter?
2015-03-17b.639.5	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Chris Grayling	We have had a discussion on the Traveller issue. It is an area on which we both feel strongly, and one that requires attention after the general election as soon as a Conservative Government are elected.
2015-03-17b.639.6	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Andrew Gwynne	Does the Justice Secretary not sense a little bit of irony in his hijacking of the 800th anniversary celebrations of Magna Carta at a time when his Government are constantly removing people’s rights and removing access to justice? Is that not hypocritical?
2015-03-17b.639.7	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Chris Grayling	We hear the same old tune from the Opposition time and time again. They oppose the changes we have made, but they will not commit to reverse them. Until and unless they turn around and say, “We will reverse the changes you have had to make because of the mess that was left behind” I will not take them seriously.
2015-03-17b.640.0	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Stuart Andrew	Breaking the cycle of crime is crucial. Does my right hon. Friend welcome the news that Out 4 Success, a former prisoners’ social enterprise, will be holding a launch event in Parliament next week? Would he be willing to pop along and meet its founders, Grant Doyle and Mark Hirst?
2015-03-17b.640.1	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Andrew Selous	I very much agree with my hon. Friend. We are blessed to have 1,300 charities working in this sector. There are many social enterprises, such as the one he mentions, doing an excellent job. I will definitely try to meet the founders he has mentioned.
2015-03-17b.640.2	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Rosie Cooper	What powers does the Ministry of Justice have to enforce UK family court orders, such as child custody, in the Crown dependency of Guernsey? My constituent’s access to his son is being prevented. These are very difficult circumstances. Will the Minister raise this issue with his counterpart?
2015-03-17b.640.3	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Simon Hughes	This is an issue that has exercised a lot of colleagues in the House. We do not have any power to tell other jurisdictions what to do, including in the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man. We have a mechanism of communicating the decisions of our courts to their courts, and we have ways in which the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and others support people in pursuing their rights, but there is no enforcement mechanism in international law. It is left to domestic jurisdictions to make their decisions.
2015-03-17b.640.4	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Mark Pawsey	The Lord Chancellor has already referred to the Global Law Summit, which enabled the UK’s legal sector to highlight its pre-eminence as a centre of legal and business innovation. Will he tell the House about some of the benefits we will see as a result of this important event?
2015-03-17b.640.5	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Chris Grayling	It is very much my hope that we will achieve two things. The event enabled contacts to be made around the world. That will enable law firms, our barristers and others who took part, to find new business opportunities to help enhance the economy of this country and the legal services sector and boost our long-term economic plan. In addition, I hope we have set a foundation that will allow the event to be held again in future and that we will continue to make London the centre of legal services internationally.
2015-03-17b.640.6	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Nia Griffith	People with asbestos-related diseases not only have to cope with their illness, but often have a difficult court battle to get compensation. With the proposed rise in court fees, which are totally disproportionate—for example, going from £1,300 to £10,000—many claimants will be deterred. Will the Minister look again at the scale of those rises to see if they can be reduced to a more reasonable level?
2015-03-17b.640.7	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Shailesh Vara	Some 90% of people will not be affected by the enhanced fees, and we have waivers for people who do not qualify on financial grounds. The fees will apply only to a relatively small number of people, and even for them we have the waivers.
2015-03-17b.641.0	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Laurence Robertson	Does the Secretary of State agree that burglary is a serious offence and causes great pain to victims, yet far too few people convicted of burglary offences actually receive custodial sentences? Will Ministers look at this and do something about it?
2015-03-17b.641.1	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Chris Grayling	I agree with my hon. Friend. I hope that one thing we have done that will make a difference is tightening up the law on the use of cautions. We had a situation in which people could receive cautions time and again, rather than ending up in front of magistrates courts, but as a result of the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015, that situation will now change, and it is necessary that it does so.
2015-03-17b.641.2	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Bridget Phillipson	In 2010, the Government put on hold plans to rebuild Sunderland’s court complex, and answers to recent parliamentary questions reveal what we have always feared—that no decision was ever likely to be taken in this Parliament. What would the Minister say to people across Sunderland to explain his Government’s complete failure to make any progress in the last five years?
2015-03-17b.641.3	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Shailesh Vara	I would say to the people of Sunderland: look at the record of the Labour party in government—it did absolutely nothing. We have put in place a five-year reform programme that will bring our courts into the 21st century. Her Government did not do that, but we have, and in five years, we will have the best courts in the world.
2015-03-17b.641.4	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Richard Graham	My plans for the regeneration of the city of Gloucester include a new car park and entrance to Gloucester station, but they depend on a land sale agreement between the Ministry of Justice and the city council and the land’s onward leasing to First Great Western. Ministers have been sympathetic to urban regeneration. Will my hon. Friend confirm whether the MOJ has agreed an independent local valuation so that rapid progress can be made on the sale?
2015-03-17b.641.5	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Shailesh Vara	I commend my hon. Friend for his diligence in pursuing this matter. He has met me, and I have corresponded with him, and he will be aware that my officials and the council’s officials are in conversation. Like him, I look forward to seeing the way forward.
2015-03-17b.641.6	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Karl Turner	The Justice Secretary has confirmed that he will plough on with his barmy idea for two-tier contracts for criminal solicitors, so it will fall to either the Court of Appeal or my right hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) to kick this barmy idea into touch forever after we win the election. How does the Justice Secretary expect criminal firms and solicitors to give up 50% of their client work voluntarily? We have asked that lots of time, but we have never had an answer.
2015-03-17b.642.0	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Chris Grayling	The important thing for any Lord Chancellor is to ensure that if somebody is arrested and taken to a police station, there will be a lawyer to represent them. These reforms will ensure that that happens, even in difficult times financially, when fee levels have to be cut. My disappointment is that although these reforms were agreed by the previous leadership of the Law Society, the current leadership has taken a rather different view.
2015-03-17b.642.1	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Karl Turner	No answer, again.
2015-03-17b.642.2	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	Order.
2015-03-17b.642.3	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Duncan Hames	There are 6,100 tariff-expired offenders serving indeterminate sentences, at a cost, I estimate, of £200 million annually. What are Ministers doing to ensure access to courses in prisons to facilitate offenders’ timely rehabilitation?
2015-03-17b.642.4	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Andrew Selous	I can tell my hon. Friend that we are improving significantly the amount of work and education in prisons. As the Secretary of State said, the number of qualifications has increased, and the number of courses is increasing as well. We will keep a focus on this important area.
2015-03-17b.642.5	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Jeremy Corbyn	When the Lord Chancellor had the pleasure of meeting lawyers from all over the world at this global summit, how many of them came up to him and said what a great idea it was to advance the human rights cause around the world while withdrawing from the European convention on human rights, and did they offer him any advice on the need to remain within the orbit of international humanitarian law?
2015-03-17b.642.6	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Chris Grayling	I had no such conversations one way or the other— [Interruption.] —because nobody raised the issue with me. The hon. Gentleman and I disagree fundamentally on this issue—I believe that change is necessary; he does not—but the difference is that the public support me, not him.
2015-03-17b.642.7	JUSTICE	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	Order. We must now move on to the ten-minute rule motion. I call Mr Jim Hood.
2015-03-17b.643.2	JUSTICE	Representation of the People (Candidate’s Disclosure)	Jimmy Hood	I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to make provision for the disclosure of convictions and sentences etc. by candidates for election to specified public roles; and for connected purposes. The purpose of my Bill is to impose a legal requirement on a candidate for any of the roles mentioned in subsection (2), which reads: “Application of Section 2 shall apply to candidates standing for election to the role of…member of the House of Commons…hereditary member of the House of Lords…member of the Scottish Parliament…member of the National Assembly for Wales…member of the Northern Ireland Assembly…member of the European Parliament for a UK constituency…member of the Greater London Assembly… elected mayor, including Mayor of London…district, borough, county, county borough or unitary authority councillor…parish or community councillor…Police and Crime Commissioner”. The current position is set out in the House of Commons Library standard note of 16 April 2014 as follows: “An individual who is convicted of a recordable offence will have a ‘nominal record’ of that conviction placed on the Police National Computer. Nominal records will also be created for individuals who are cautioned, reprimanded, warned or arrested for such offences. An individual’s nominal record is retained until his 100th birthday.” The police national database is used to record details of “soft” police intelligence—for example, details of criminal investigations that do not lead to a conviction. The intention will generally be to retain this information for a minimum of six years, and longer if it relates to allegations of a serious offence or if the individual concerned is considered to pose an ongoing risk. When a person applies for a so-called “excepted position”, he or she may be required to provide details of their record by way of a standard or enhanced criminal records check from the Disclosure and Barring Service, formerly the Criminal Records Bureau. Excepted positions cover, for example, work with children or vulnerable adults and roles in certain licensed occupations or positions of trust such as police officers and solicitors. It is my contention that elected representatives of the people as listed in subsection (2) fall within the category applicable to police officers, teachers, doctors, nurses, voluntary youth workers and so forth, and should therefore be added to the professions requiring disclosure statements. The reputation of politics in general, and of some of its elected representatives in particular, has been tarnished in recent times. We have in no small measure a collective responsibility to do what we can to restore the reputation of Parliament and all our public institutions. If a school teacher, a school bus driver, a police officer, a doctor, a nurse, a community volunteer and many thousands of other public service professionals are required to have disclosure statements as a prerequisite to their being able to pursue their profession, why not MPs, councillors, MSPs, London Assembly members and so forth? It was a school teacher from Lanark grammar school in my constituency who, during a meeting in my office at a prearranged visit with three of her students asked me, “Do MPs need to have disclosure statements?”, to which I felt sheepish in saying no. I am presenting the Bill today thanks to that teacher’s inquiry, and I look forward to the day when my answer will be, “Of course.” On the eve of a general election, thousands of candidates are ready for the off following the Dissolution of Parliament next week. In truth, although all political parties have their own procedures for vetting their prospective candidates, they rarely, if ever, have information about a candidate’s criminal antecedence. That is surely an impediment to our doing right by the people we represent. Child protection must and always will be at the heart of everything that we do in the House of Commons. Legislators must subject themselves to the same scrutiny, and the same laws that we pass, that apply to members of our electorate. I am sure that those taking part in Justice Lowell Goddard’s inquiry into historical child abuse will want to identify any potential weaknesses in child protection legislation with a view to scrutinising political institutions in connection with all aspects of child protection. In the light of all that has gone before, my Bill is an attempt to bring the political elite under greater scrutiny, and to reassure the public that the laws that we pass for them apply to all their elected representatives. I commend it to the House. Question put and agreed to. Ordered, That Mr Jim Hood, Mr Brian H. Donohoe, Mr Dennis Skinner, Jim Sheridan, Mr Tom Clarke, Pamela Nash, Sir Alan Meale, Mr Frank Roy, Mr Ian Davidson, John Robertson, Ian Lavery and Mr Russell Brown present the Bill. Mr Jim Hood accordingly presented the Bill. Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 March and to be printed (Bill 189).
2015-03-17b.645.2	JUSTICE	Modern Slavery Bill	Mr Speaker	I must draw the House’s attention to the fact that financial privilege is involved in Lords amendments 20, 45 and 61. If the House agrees to any of those amendments, I shall cause an appropriate entry to be made in the Journal. After Clause 50
2015-03-17b.645.4	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	I beg to move, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 72.
2015-03-17b.645.5	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Mr Speaker	With this it will be convenient to take Government amendments (a) to (c) in lieu of Lords amendment 72.
2015-03-17b.645.6	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	As Members know, there has been considerable interest in the position of overseas domestic workers during debates on the Bill, both here and in another place. We have had excellent debates on this important issue. I am grateful to Members of both Houses for raising it, and I want to address it fully today. At this point in my speech, I was going to wish the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) a speedy recovery, because he has been so instrumental in bringing us to this point in the Bill’s passage. I had not expected to see him here today, and I am delighted that he is present. I hope that he is feeling considerably better, and I look forward to hearing from him later in the debate.
2015-03-17b.645.7	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Frank Field	I am immensely grateful to the Minister for those comments, and Mr Speaker was nodding in agreement—so much so that I hope he may actually call me to speak in the debate.
2015-03-17b.645.8	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Mr Speaker	That is a very ingenious way of signalling a desire to contribute, and the right hon. Gentleman might find that his desire is accommodated.
2015-03-17b.645.9	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	I look forward to hearing from the right hon. Gentleman, and it sounds to me as though you will be obliging with regard to that, Mr Speaker. Holding anyone in slavery or servitude or trafficking them is an abhorrent crime, which this Government are determined to stamp out. Such abuse of anyone on an overseas domestic worker visa is totally unacceptable. This landmark Modern Slavery Bill’s core purpose is to make sure both that law enforcement has the tools to ensure those who commit these appalling crimes are caught and punished and that victims receive the protection and support they need to recover. This is crucial to our approach to overseas domestic workers. This Bill means those who traffic overseas domestic workers or hold them in servitude can receive a life sentence and that the slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour offence reflected the particular circumstances of vulnerable victims.
2015-03-17b.646.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Emily Thornberry	I applaud and understand what the Minister says about ensuring that those who enslave domestic servants should be given a life sentence. If that was to happen and the law enforcement agencies were to get involved with the employer, what would happen to the employee?
2015-03-17b.646.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	I shall address later in my remarks exactly what is envisaged through the amendment in lieu to give support specifically to people on an overseas domestic workers visa who are victims of slavery. The Bill means that all victims of modern slavery will have major new protections such as the statutory defence to prevent them from being treated inappropriately as criminals. I understand and share the sentiment behind Lords amendment 72. When my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary and I looked at it and considered how to respond to the Lords vote, our priority was to improve the protection for victims of modern slavery. I know that that is in line with the spirit in which peers passed the amendment and I am grateful for their careful scrutiny of the Bill. That common focus on supporting and protecting victims of modern slavery is why I am not simply proposing that this House should disagree with the Lords amendment. Instead, even at this late stage of the passage of the Bill, we are proposing to add additional protections for overseas domestic workers who fall victim to modern slavery.
2015-03-17b.646.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Henry Smith	It is essential that we get this Bill on the statute book before the Dissolution of Parliament next week. Although the amendments coming from the other place, including amendment 72, have absolutely the right sentiment, does the Minister agree that it is vital that we ensure this legislation gets on the statute book at the earliest possible opportunity so that these fundamental and important protections can become the law of the land?
2015-03-17b.646.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. He is right: we are at a very late stage and we want this Bill to become an Act of Parliament. We want the Modern Slavery Act, the first piece of anti-slavery legislation for 200 years, to be on the statute book. We must make sure we achieve that, but in a way that provides all victims, including victims on an overseas domestic worker visa, with the support and protection they need.
2015-03-17b.646.4	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Fiona Mactaggart	The hon. Lady emphasised that she wanted, through the Government amendment, to give additional protections to domestic workers, but in fact I think her amendment has either confused her or is designed to confuse the House, because it actually reduces the protections that exist under the national referral mechanism. Has she looked at the National Crime Agency report about what happens to someone who has conclusive grounds? First, they are given 12 months’ leave to remain, but the Minister is suggesting that domestic workers get only six months’ leave to remain and cannot get access to public funds. Those two things are available to every other enslaved worker, but will not be available to domestic workers.
2015-03-17b.647.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	I am afraid that the right hon. Lady has misunderstood the amendment. The protections available to all victims of modern slavery who go through the national referral mechanism will be available to victims who have come here on an overseas domestic workers visa. That includes the discretionary right to stay for 12 months and one day if they are assisting the police with their inquiries. In addition, we are including in the Bill the provision for six months’ leave to stay and work irrespective of whether the person is assisting the police with their inquiries. That is a minimum of six months, in addition to the 12 months’ discretionary leave. It is in addition to the support that is available to all victims of slavery who go through the national referral mechanism.
2015-03-17b.647.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Burrowes	The good progress in the Lords reflects the comments that were made in the Bill Committee. Will the Minister say a little more about the guidance and tell us what is going to happen on the ground to ensure that enforcement action will not be taken against overseas domestic workers who are going through the national referral mechanism? Will the guidance have proper bite to ensure that no inappropriate action is taken and that victims are properly treated as victims?
2015-03-17b.647.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	My hon. Friend and the right hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) were strong and assiduous members of the Committee that scrutinised the Bill as it went through the House of Commons, which is when we started debating this issue. My hon. Friend is right to mention the guidance, and I shall explain more about that in a moment. It is absolutely clear that all front-line professionals need to understand that the visa situation of an individual is irrelevant in these circumstances: if they are a victim of slavery, they are a victim of slavery, and they will need the support that is available. As I have said, the amendment will give additional support for victims who are on an overseas domestic workers visa, and I shall explain why that is appropriate. Before I explain the additional protections, which seek to address the important concerns raised in other place, I should explain to the House why I am deeply concerned that Lords amendment 72 will not protect victims, however well intentioned it might be. There is a real risk that it will achieve the opposite. I want to ensure that a provision to support overseas domestic workers who fall victim to modern slavery will help those vulnerable people get the help they need and allow law enforcement to take action to prevent their abusers from doing the same to another domestic worker. I do not believe that the Lords amendment would achieve either of those things. Members will have seen from my letter that those worries are shared by senior law enforcement officers working in this field. I should remind the House that the overseas domestic workers visa allows visitors to the UK to bring their existing domestic staff with them when they visit the UK, for a maximum of six months. Separate arrangements apply for the small number of overseas domestic workers who work in diplomatic households. Around 15,000 of these visas are issued every year, and the data suggest that visits typically last for only about 15 days, so the vast majority of overseas domestic workers will be here for a very short time. To qualify for this short-term visa, there must be evidence of a long-term employment relationship between employer and employee. Even before the Lords debate on Report, the Government announced that the safeguards would be strengthened. There will be a new standard contract, along with changes to the immigration rules to strengthen the guarantees that overseas domestic workers will be paid at least the national minimum wage, pilot programmes of interviews for applicants overseas and the provision of information cards at the border. Given the specific circumstances in which the visa is applicable, it is not possible to change employer during the short period that the workers are in the UK or to extend the visa as a route to settling permanently in the UK. Lords amendment 72 would change that, allowing overseas domestic workers to change employer and stay in the UK indefinitely, potentially gaining settlement. The Government have listened carefully to the debates on this issue, and we are keen to take an evidence-based approach. As the House will know, the Government have announced an independent review of the overseas domestic workers visa, which is to report in July. The review will look specifically at the ability to change employer. It is being undertaken by James Ewins, a respected expert on modern slavery who served as a specialist legal adviser to the pre-legislative scrutiny Committee on the Bill.
2015-03-17b.648.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Emily Thornberry	Would not the Lords amendment effectively bring us back to the position that we were in in 2012, which is when the Government changed the immigration rules? My question to the Minister is why did they change the rules in the first place? Why could we not have kept them as they were?
2015-03-17b.648.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	The hon. Lady will know that there was abuse under the old regime. We wanted to ensure that we were giving maximum protection to victims. I shall shortly give the House some information from the anti-slavery commissioner designate, who is quite clear about the abuse of workers that he saw when he was working in the Metropolitan police. Those workers were here on the visa and were able to change employer, and they were trafficked and moved between employers by organised criminal gangs. There was abuse under the old system, so going back to the old system is not the right answer. The answer is to find out what the problem is with the visa and to ensure that we are not importing abuse. That is what I am determined to do, and that is what I have asked James Ewins to look at. The measures in the Bill today are designed to give as much protection, support and information as possible to workers on this visa. By July, we shall have a full evidence base for the best way of supporting those employees, and that is the point at which changes should be made. They should be made when we have the evidence.
2015-03-17b.648.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Emily Thornberry	I am grateful to the Minister for her answer, but I do not really understand why the rules were changed in 2012 if there was no proper evidence to enable them to be changed properly to give people protection. Why are we debating the issue now, three years later? The Government changed the rules, and they made things worse. I do not understand why we are having this debate three years on.
2015-03-17b.649.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	The evidence is not that it has made things worse. Kalayaan, the leading charity in this area, was getting 300 victims of slavery coming through its doors each year under the old system. The figure is now 60 a year.
2015-03-17b.649.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Fiona Mactaggart	Will the Minister give way on that point?
2015-03-17b.649.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	I want to understand what is happening with the visa and to ensure that we do not import abuse. The fact is that we need to find the evidence and we need to understand the problem. That is why we have instigated the review and why we are taking the steps that we are taking today.
2015-03-17b.649.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	The Minister has just indicated to the House that the person who will look at this issue was the adviser to the Modern Slavery Bill pre-legislative scrutiny Committee. As she will know, that Committee advised the Government to accept the changes that are being proposed today.
2015-03-17b.649.4	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	The right hon. Gentleman is an experienced parliamentarian, but he knows that there were problems with that visa prior to 2012. We need to root out those problems. We need to find a solution, but the way to do that is not to return to the system under which the abuse occurred. The answer is to find out how to stop the abuse in the first place.
2015-03-17b.649.5	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	Will the Minister give way?
2015-03-17b.649.6	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	Of course. How could I not give way to the hon. Gentleman?
2015-03-17b.649.7	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	I have been listening to what the Minister is saying. In the past, under the Labour Government’s visa arrangements, a large number of people reported being abused because they knew that they could leave a bad employer. The Minister boasts that the figure has gone down to 60, but that has happened because people are now trapped with the same employer and can do only one of two things: they can go home, or they can run away. They are not protected under the present visa system, and that is why the number has fallen.
2015-03-17b.649.8	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	The hon. Gentleman will also know that we have reviewed the national referral mechanism and that we are ensuring that it is being extended to all victims of slavery, not just to victims of trafficking. An argument that was always put forward about overseas domestic workers was that they could not qualify for the national referral mechanism because they had not been trafficked. We are changing that, with the Bill and the modern slavery strategy, to ensure that support is available to all victims of slavery. I want to make it clear that anyone who is here on an overseas domestic workers visa can come forward, confident in the knowledge that they will get the support they need and that they will not simply be deported, as the hon. Gentleman is suggesting. They will be able to go through the national referral mechanism. At the end of that process, they will be able to work in this country for a minimum of six months to help them to get back on their feet. When we have the evidence from the review, we will be able to determine our final, definitive position on the visa, but I want to make it absolutely clear to anyone who is here on the visa and to any victim of slavery that the Bill, which I want to see become an Act of Parliament, is there to support and protect them.
2015-03-17b.650.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Frank Field	The Minister is moving the debate on, in that she is saying that a future Parliament will decide this issue. We have before us amendments that the Government hope the Lords will accept. The James Ewins review will presumably report after the election. I want to ask the Minister and my own Front-Bench spokesman, my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) , whether they will give a commitment that whoever is in government will implement James Ewins’s report.
2015-03-17b.650.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	We have asked for this review to take place and we look forward to the recommendations. I cannot commit a future Government, but the intention is that whoever is in government—I very much hope it will be the Conservatives—will implement the review’s recommendations. Let me go back to the point the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) made about what happens to the employee if an employer is prosecuted for slavery. What we are doing today is ensuring that the employee would receive help and support through the national referral mechanism, and the Government amendments add the new visa, which would allow the employee to work as a domestic worker after receiving a conclusive grounds decision. In addition, the employee may receive discretionary leave while helping the police with their investigation. So not only will the employee have the same protection as anyone else, but we will look at the right solution for an individual’s personal circumstances. They will have six months to work here and 12 months plus one day if they are assisting the police with their inquiries.
2015-03-17b.650.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Fiona Mactaggart	I tried to intervene on the point about Kalayaan, because I want to put on the record that Kalayaan would say the reason for the reduction in the number of people who sought its help was that the remedies available to them have gone away. Does the Minister share my concern that in primary legislation there is an entitlement to six-months’ leave, which may guide the courts and officers in what they do, but no entitlement to the one year she claims those helping the police with their inquiries will receive?
2015-03-17b.650.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	On the numbers, I accept and do not dispute what Kalayaan is saying. What I am saying is that through this Bill we are offering the support Kalayaan says it believes overseas domestic workers do not get. I can work only on the basis of the figures it has produced about the number of people who have come to it looking for support; that is the only evidence I have on this at the moment. I have the other evidence about people who have gone through the NRM having been on an overseas domestic worker visa, and they are far smaller in number than those going through the NRM for domestic servitude who are UK or European economic area nationals, or who are here completely illegally. I can work only on the evidence I have, which is why I have asked James Ewing to look at the point. The right hon. Lady makes the point about the courts, but they are not determining whether somebody is given a conclusive grounds decision within the NRM. She knows we have reviewed the NRM and introduced, as we will discuss later, an enabling power to put the NRM on to a statutory basis, as and when we have completed the pilots. But it will not be the courts deciding whether somebody gets a conclusive grounds decision; it will be the decision makers within the NRM—those specialists, led at the moment by the Salvation Army, who run the care contract. So this measure will not make any difference to courts decisions or decisions about discretionary leave, but, as she rightly says, this will be the only set of victims who will have something in statute over and above what is available in policy. She should welcome that.
2015-03-17b.651.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Burrowes	We are all united in wanting to ensure that victims have the confidence to come forward, knowing that they will be supported and not deported. But should we not all share the concern that amendment 72 contains a gap and a flaw, which is that the cycle of abuse could lead to those on domestic work visas changing employers and then not coming forward to the authorities? That issue has been taken up by, among others, the Organised Crime Command. We need to look at what we have before us. We can agree that there is a gap in Lords amendment 72, which needs sorting out.
2015-03-17b.651.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	My hon. Friend sums it up perfectly—I could not sum it up better. The problem we have with a system that just allows somebody to change employer is we are brushing the abuse under the carpet; we are not bringing it out into the light. That flies in the face of what we are trying to do through this Bill, which is find the victim.
2015-03-17b.651.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	rose—
2015-03-17b.651.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	I hope the hon. Gentleman will not mind but I am going to make some progress. The victims of slavery I have met are incredibly vulnerable people. We have a duty to give them support, look after them, and make sure that they take control of their lives and make the right decisions. I have met too many victims in domestic servitude who were not on visas and who have gone from one abusive employer to another because they were not brought out into the open—we did not find those victims—and we did not give them the support they need. Suggesting that somebody who has been through the kind of suffering we are talking about could just walk out and find another employer and their life will be okay is disingenuous; it does not reflect the realities of this horrendous crime and the vulnerabilities of these victims. I want to find these victims and give them the specialist support the NRM offers, and I want to make sure they then have control of their own lives to move forward and do the right thing.
2015-03-17b.652.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Emily Thornberry	rose—
2015-03-17b.652.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	rose—
2015-03-17b.652.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	I said that I was going to make progress, but I will give way to the hon. Lady and the hon. Gentleman, and then do so.
2015-03-17b.652.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Emily Thornberry	I am trying to think about this in terms of the real world. It seems to me that the best way of escape for someone who is in servitude and being abused would be to find another employer, who could then be supportive. In those circumstances, someone could explain what had happened to them. Such a person is more likely to come forward in those circumstances than they are to come forward to the police when they are still in servitude and still being abused.
2015-03-17b.652.4	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	Let me be clear: this is not about coming forward to the police; it is about victims coming forward to a professional first responder who will refer them into the NRM. If someone chooses to give evidence that allows the police to instigate inquiries, they may be eligible for the 12 months and a day of discretionary leave. But what we are saying is, “You don’t need to come to the police. If you are a victim of slavery, you can come forward to a first responder—a professional—and a charity such as Kalayaan can help you by putting you into the NRM. And if at the end of the specialist support you are given a conclusive grounds decision, you will be allowed to stay and work for six months while you get your life back on track.” If the matter was as simple as someone changing employer, we would not have UK or EEA nationals being victims of slavery. It is not that simple to solve; it is a far more complicated problem. We are talking about 15,000 people who are, on average, here for 15 days. How do we make sure we find those victims? That is the challenge we face and that is what I want the review to deal with.
2015-03-17b.652.5	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	The Minister is trying to explain a difficult subject. The difficulty I have is that she seems to be saying that, regardless of how someone leaves an abusive employer, they end up in a white van heading for some place they are put by the NRM.
2015-03-17b.652.6	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	indicated dissent .
2015-03-17b.652.7	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	That is what happens to victims now. They are transferred from a caring organisation such as Kalayaan into what people see as a sterile organisation. Unfortunately, at the moment all the evidence shows that when people went to the police under the last Labour Government’s policy—the three-year visa— the police would send them to Kalayaan and it would then find their escape route. It was something people cared about, supported and had confidence in. Sadly, at the moment the official line—the police line, which is contained in the Government’s amendment—is not attractive to people who are in these situations. Whether the Minister likes it or not, escaping from an abusive employer and finding other employment where their employer does not abuse them is the solution for many people I have spoken to—the ones I met outside, when they presented me with flowers. Their solution is not to be put into some organisation where they are in an official system they do not trust.
2015-03-17b.653.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	I have enormous respect for the hon. Gentleman, but the way that he has painted the picture of the support given to victims in the NRM completely flies in the face of what those incredibly dedicated organisations that run the refuges and safe houses I have visited do. These are not sterile environments; they are caring family homes. They are places where people get incredible support and the opportunity to get back on their feet. I want to make it clear, for the record, that where people come forward as victims of slavery, whether they are on any visa or no visa is irrelevant; they should come forward to a first responder, not to the police. The first responder will refer them into the NRM, and just to be clear, it is the human trafficking centre or UK Visas and Immigration that currently makes the reasonable grounds decisions and, of course, the conclusive grounds decisions. The Salvation Army runs the care contract and makes sure that those individuals who have been given a reasonable grounds decision and are therefore put into the NRM are then given the support they need. It does not matter —[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman talks from a sedentary position about visas, but the visa does not matter; they will be put into the NRM and they will be looked after, not in sterile conditions but in very caring, supportive environment, with specialists who make sure that they have the support they need. If, at the end of the time, they have gone through the NRM and the decision is taken that they have a conclusive grounds decision that they are a victim of slavery, they will then be given a six-month visa to work. [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman knows—
2015-03-17b.653.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Mr Speaker	Order. We must conduct this debate in a seemly manner. The hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty) cannot just stand up and make his point without having secured agreement to his intervention. We will leave it there for now, but the Minister is understandably animated on the matter.
2015-03-17b.653.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	Thank you, Mr Speaker, and I do apologise for that. It is important to make it clear that victims who go through the national referral mechanism and who have a conclusive grounds decision that they are a victim of slavery will, at that point, have the right to claim six months to stay and work here in the UK. Whether they take up that claim is entirely down to the individual. If that victim assists police with their inquiries, they will receive an additional year and a day discretionary leave. Returning to my former point, the Government believe that, given the very different views on the effect of the visa tie, this independent review—the one being conducted by James Ewins—is a great opportunity for a careful and objective look at the issue, and we should not pre-judge its findings. It is particularly important that we allow the review to do its work, because I am deeply concerned that the approach in the Lords amendment will not encourage victims to report the perpetrators of these heinous crimes, so that they can be held to account, or help victims access the support they need to recover. If an overseas domestic worker who has fallen victim to modern slavery on their short stay in the UK has the ability to change employer, the likelihood is that, if they can escape, they will simply look for another employer and not tell the authorities what has happened to them. The perpetrator would then remain free to go on to abuse other domestic workers either in the UK or in their home country. If we are to catch these very serious criminals and stop them offending again, we must incentivise overseas domestic workers who suffer abuse to come forward; it is absolutely crucial that we do that. My main concern is to ensure that victims, who are often deeply traumatised and vulnerable, receive the care and support they need to recover from the abuses they have suffered.
2015-03-17b.654.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Mark Durkan	Given that the Minister has said that the Government amendment requiring victims to go through the national referral mechanism is aimed at ensuring that there are prosecutions, what is the evidence to date that shows that such cases have led to successful prosecutions and convictions?
2015-03-17b.654.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	The hon. Gentleman, who was a distinguished member of the Bill Committee, knows that there are not enough prosecutions. But this Bill is designed to secure more prosecutions. Increased prosecutions combined with the reviewed national referral mechanism, which we will be piloting shortly and hope to roll out nationally very soon, will mean that we will get the evidence and information that we need. This is about not just legislation but the modern slavery strategy. We want all the agencies working together to ensure that we identify victims and treat them as victims, and that those victims get the support they need, so that they can give us the information we require to find the perpetrators of these awful crimes. A victim who manages to leave an abusive employer and who is not receiving appropriate support would be very vulnerable and at risk of moving on to yet another abusive employer, leaving the original abuser free to abuse again. There is a real danger that Lords amendment 72 will allow abuse to go unchallenged. However good the intentions, that would not protect overseas domestic workers. It risks giving a free pass to the criminals who abuse them, creating the conditions for yet more victims. Quite frankly, if eliminating modern slavery was as simple as being able to change employer, we would have no UK nationals or EU members as victims as they could simply move on. As we all know, the truth is very different, and we have all heard the traumatic accounts of those abused by unscrupulous agricultural gangmasters or tarmac gangs. This is a complex topic, and simplifying the issue to whether an overseas domestic worker can change employer risks doing a grave disservice to victims. That is not just the view of the Government. I have taken advice from the law enforcement professionals responsible for investigating modern slavery. Chief Constable Shaun Sawyer, the national policing lead for modern slavery, and Ian Cruxton, the director of the Organised Crime Command at the National Crime Agency, have both expressed concern that the Lords amendment would inadvertently undermine the fight against modern slavery because victims will not come forward. The designate independent anti-slavery commissioner, Kevin Hyland, whom I met this morning said: “There is clearly exploitation taking place under the current system which needs to be resolved. However, there was also abuse under the old visa system—I personally dealt with cases of slavery where victims of domestic servitude were sold multiple times under the old system. The suggested amendment won’t go far enough to deal with the core of the issue. It is not enough to go back to a system where we know there was abuse taking place. This is why I fully support the review led by James Ewins which will look at the abuse in broader terms. I expect it to make recommendations which will end abuse within this sector. I’m clear that all victims of Modern Slavery, regardless of their immigration status or the sector they are exploited in, must receive the same level of support afforded by the provisions in this Bill.” I ask the House to disagree with Lords amendment 72 in the spirit of protecting overseas domestic workers. We have an independent review looking at the visa tie. It would be wrong to legislate and to decide on this issue today, ahead of that review, when the advice from law enforcement is so clear that that approach puts at risk the fight against modern slavery. I want not just to disagree with the Lords amendment, but to use the Bill to strengthen protection for overseas domestic workers who fall victim to modern slavery. I want to provide them with the confidence to come forward, which will also help law enforcement to catch the abuser and to stop the abuse continuing. This Bill is about protecting and supporting victims, and dealing with abusers firmly. Non-governmental organisations tell us that overseas domestic workers have real fears about approaching the authorities and accepting support from the national referral mechanism. Those workers worry that they may be treated as being in breach of immigration law and deported and that, if they leave their abusive employer, they will lose their livelihood and not be able to provide for families back home. The Government amendments are intended to address both those concerns. We have already made it clear that if overseas victims of modern slavery come forward, they will not be in breach of their employment-related visa conditions for leaving their employer. But to put the matter to rest once and for all, the Government amendments in lieu will place a cast-iron guarantee in the Bill that guidance will provide that no immigration enforcement action will be taken against an overseas domestic worker who may be a victim of modern slavery for overstaying or breaching an employment-related leave condition as a result of escaping slavery. After discussions with interested voluntary organisations such as Kalayaan, I should like to highlight that that protection starts from the moment that they leave their employer to escape modern slavery and it will continue throughout the national referral mechanism process. In combination with the statutory defence for victims in the Bill, overseas domestic workers can therefore have real confidence that victims of abuse will be treated as such. That will encourage victims to agree to come forward, to tell the authorities what has happened and to receive support to recover through the national referral mechanism. In addition, we will enable overseas domestic workers who have received a conclusive decision that they are victims of modern slavery to apply for permission to stay to work as a domestic worker in a private household. During their stay, they will be free to change employer if they so wish. The ability to work for this period will allow victims to earn some money to help them rebuild their lives when they return home. The amendments will allow the Government to fix in immigration rules a maximum period of stay and provide comfort that that period will not be for less than six months. It is intended that six months will be the standard visa duration, but the provision allows us to go further in future should we so wish. The independent review can consider whether that is the most appropriate possible period. A longer period could quickly be introduced by a future Government through the immigration rules with no changes needed to primary legislation. Focusing that provision on victims of modern slavery will encourage victims to come forward to report the abuse that they have suffered, so that the police can investigate and prosecute those who have carried out the crimes. It will also mean that victims get the support and protection they need. The provision does not replace the ability of victims to apply for asylum or humanitarian protection or to have a discretionary period of leave in the UK for a longer period under the national referral mechanism process. That will allow them, for example, to help the police with their inquiries into the crimes they have suffered, pursue a compensation claim or to stay longer if they have compelling personal circumstances. Any overseas domestic worker who is confirmed to be a victim will be able to apply for this new visa with very few conditions attached. We would expect that any work they do is as a domestic worker in a private household. We envisage that they should show us the contract they have agreed once they have a job, so that we can ensure that their terms and conditions are lawful to prevent them falling back into an abusive relationship, and we would expect them to maintain themselves without recourse to public funds. There are very few circumstances in which we foresee a visa being refused. The House will understand that we need to retain the ability to refuse applications where there are public policy grounds for doing so—for example, when the applicant is a serious criminal. We would not expect those who have already benefited from a period of discretionary leave following a conclusive grounds decision that they are a victim of modern slavery to be able to claim that in addition to the time already spent in the UK. I ask the House to focus today on the issue at the heart of the Bill: the protection of victims. I ask the House to pass this substantial additional support for overseas domestic workers who are victims of modern slavery and get the message out to overseas domestic workers that they can now come forward with even greater confidence if they suffer abuse. I am determined to work with NGOs, the Churches, the national referral mechanism and first responders to get that message out there. We will ensure that employers are aware that they could face life imprisonment if they abuse their staff.
2015-03-17b.656.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	I welcome this debate, which is the latest in a number of debates we have had on this issue. As the Minister knows, there have been long and detailed discussions in Committee, in the House of Lords and again today. Despite her valiant attempts today to convince the House of the Government’s position, she has not yet managed to convince those who work with the victims of overseas domestic worker abuse. She has not convinced the charity Kalayaan, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Anti-Slavery International, Liberty, Unite the union or the House of Lords, and she has not convinced me, my newly right hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) —congratulations to her—or my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) , whom I am pleased to see in his place.
2015-03-17b.657.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	The right hon. Gentleman fails to mention that I have managed to convince the Equality and Human Rights Commission. [ Interruption. ] It has said that it supports the Government’s position and recommends that our amendment should be accepted.
2015-03-17b.657.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	rose—
2015-03-17b.657.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Mr Speaker	Order. I should congratulate the right hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) on her elevation to the Privy Council, despite her use of the word “shocking” three times in succession just now. She has been so elevated and is now a celebrated denizen of the House.
2015-03-17b.657.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	I wish to speak in support of Lords amendment 72 and try once again, alongside my right hon. and hon. Friends, to convince the Government that it would be in the best interests of overseas domestic workers. Today we revisit the regulations on overseas domestic workers that the Government changed in April 2012. Although the intention behind that change can be debated, I think that even the Minister would accept that the consequences have been dire. Domestic workers who come here from overseas are now tied to an employer, which in practice means that those who suffer abuse will immediately lose their right to reside in the UK if they escape the situation and seek help away from their employer. I believe that that disincentivises them from seeking help from the authorities in the first place because they fear being deported, and that allows abuse to become widespread and perpetrators to carry on uncontested. The charity Kalayaan has done a great deal of detailed work to support overseas domestic workers, and the Minister knows of the statistics it has collated. It found that, of the workers who contacted it, 62% of the domestic workers who came on a tied visa were paid no salary at all, compared with 14% on the original visa, 96% were not allowed out of the house unsupervised and 74% faced psychological abuse. Those statistics are a small snapshot of what is a deeply difficult experience for too many overseas domestic workers in the United Kingdom. If it was only Kalayaan saying that, it would be an indication from a respected charity, but the Minister knows—we have had this debate before—that a number of organisations have been considering this for some time. The Joint Committee on Human Rights has echoed the call for the review that Lords amendment 72 would effectively give. It states: “We regard the removal of the right of an overseas domestic worker to change employer as a backward step in the protection of migrant domestic workers”. The Minister and the Home Secretary produced the draft Bill and, helpfully, established the Joint Committee on the Draft Modern Slavery Bill, chaired by my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead, to ensure that they looked at those issues and got the Bill right. The Committee included a number of notable peers from across the House of Lords: Baroness Butler-Sloss, the Bishop of Derby, Baroness Doocey, Baroness Hanham, Baroness Kennedy of Cradley, Lord McColl of Dulwich and Lord Warner. The Members from this House were the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) , my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty) , my right hon. Friend the Member for Slough and the right hon. Members for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Sir John Randall), for Meriden (Mrs Spelman) and for Hazel Grove (Sir Andrew Stunell). That cross-section of individuals looked at the matter in detail and concluded that the overseas domestic workers visa has “unintentionally strengthened the hand of the slave master against the victim of slavery. The moral case for revisiting this issue is urgent and overwhelming”. It called on the Government to take immediate action. The Opposition tried to provide that immediate action in response to the Government’s lack of response to that particular aspect of the Joint Committee’s report. We tabled an amendment in Committee and had a good discussion about it. Mr Speaker, you know how difficult it is for an Opposition to get even close to winning votes upstairs in Committee. On the day in question, the result of the vote was nine-all, so it was decided by the Chair, the hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard) , who voted for the status quo, in accordance with precedent. The Government hand-picked a Committee but still ended up with a nine-all draw on an issue recommended on a cross-party basis by Members of both Houses. I think that shows the strength and integrity of the issue before us today.
2015-03-17b.658.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Caroline Spelman	Surely the Joint Committee’s point about the moral case for revisiting the issue has been taken up, because that is precisely what the Government have just ordered because of the complexity of the issue and the changes they have made. Surely the tight vote to which the right hon. Gentleman refers is evidence of the fact that both sides of the House want the issue to be looked at in great detail in the review.
2015-03-17b.658.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	Let me reassure the right hon. Lady that we seek to support the Lords in their amendment. If the House divides on the issue later today and the Division is lost, we will certainly support the Government’s proposals to carry forward the review, because we do not wish to see that stopped. However, I think that it is important to reflect on what the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, a former Government Deputy Chief Whip, said: there are too many victims for us to say that this is a matter for another day. The Government’s proposal would put the matter off for another day. I do not think that that other day should await the outcome of the general election; we should do it now. The Government have a clear view from the Lords, given the vote that was won by Lord Hylton, an independent peer, a few weeks ago, when the Government were defeated.
2015-03-17b.658.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Chloe Smith	On the subject of waiting for another day, is there not a problem with Lords amendment 72? If a victim of slavery left their current employer and that employer was able to go on to abuse more victims, both that day and another day, the Lords amendment would do little to tackle that, whereas the Government’s amendment in lieu would do that, because it would prevent victims from being left for another day.
2015-03-17b.658.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	There is the National Crime Agency, there is legislation against abuse and, as Kalayaan has said, there is a large number of overseas domestic workers who are currently not paid a penny. If the hon. Lady found somebody who had left their employment, was able to untie their visa and move on and who could still pass on reports on the national minimum wage or other issues to the National Crime Agency, the Lords amendment would not stop that aspect being enforced. There is a national minimum wage now and it should be enforced. There is a National Crime Agency if people are undergoing abuse. The amendment would allow people to switch employers and ultimately, if they wished to do so, make a report and recommendations to a proper authority. At this point we need to get to the basics of how to untie the visa so that individuals can leave and avoid abuse.
2015-03-17b.659.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Andrew Stunell	The evidence that we took in Committee was that these are very frightened and vulnerable people who will run a long way from the authorities. Does the right hon. Gentleman think there is some merit in a mechanism whereby, if they require to take advantage of the concession, they are also required to clock on, so to speak, with the law enforcement agencies?
2015-03-17b.659.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	I might have been able to take the right hon. Gentleman at his word, had he not joined in the recommendation from my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead in the Committee. When I tabled in Committee word for word what he voted for in the draft Bill, he voted against it. With due respect to the right hon. Gentleman, he had his chance to put his case in Committee. We did not get this measure through the Bill Committee because he chose to vote with the Government, rather than for what he had recommended as part of the Joint Committee. Lord Hylton said in the debate in the other place: “There can be no doubt that domestic workers tied to one employer and living on his premises are extremely vulnerable.” Baroness Hanham, a Conservative, said in the same debate: “In this 21st century it is absolutely unacceptable that people are coming in to this country tied to an employer, unable to do anything for themselves and absolutely under the instruction of the person for whom they are working”—[ Official Report, House of Lords, 25 February 2015; Vol. 759, c. 1690-93 .] Peer after peer, MP after MP, and my right hon. and hon. Friends in their submissions to date have said that the Government’s approach is wrong-headed and that they need to rethink it urgently. If Lords amendment 72 is defeated, we will reluctantly not oppose the Government’s amendment in lieu. We will contribute to the debate. Should I be the Minister after May, which is entirely a matter for the electorate, I will revisit the principles that we are examining in relation to Lords amendment 72. As has been pointed out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Slough and my hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) , the Government’s amendment gives someone who has been determined to be a victim of slavery or human trafficking through the national referral mechanism the ability to change their employer. It does not untie the visa for all. It means that overseas domestic workers would need to meet a high threshold to prove that they had been victims of modern slavery.
2015-03-17b.660.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	We are debating the Modern Slavery Bill, aren’t we? What we are looking at here is how we protect victims of slavery, irrespective of their visa. If we give somebody the right to come to Britain on one of these visas and then they are abused as a slave, I want to make sure that we give them the right support. That is what we are debating today and that is what I want to achieve.
2015-03-17b.660.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	I am grateful. There is no disagreement between us, but the issue for me is still the position with regard to the tied visa. I do not think that the Government’s proposal in the long term, following the review that was undertaken effectively on a cross-party basis by my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead, is sufficient for the purpose.
2015-03-17b.660.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Chloe Smith	The right hon. Gentleman’s words belie him. Just a few sentences ago he said he wanted to unpick that visa knot for others. With the greatest respect, it is not those others that we are discussing today; it is the victims of slavery, as my hon. Friend the Minister has just said. Does the right hon. Gentleman want to do more or does he want to do what she outlined?
2015-03-17b.660.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	With due respect to the hon. Lady, under the Government’s proposal an individual would have to find a way to report themselves and to activate the national referral mechanism and get involved in that, at a time when they are working for an employer. The principle that I want to support is movement on untying the visa.
2015-03-17b.660.4	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	If somebody is unable to get to an authority to report themselves as a victim of slavery when there are helplines in place, and first responders, such as people in public bodies and others who are available, how does the right hon. Gentleman think they can change their employer?
2015-03-17b.660.5	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	It is important that they have the ability to do so. I come back to my starting point. If the hon. Lady’s position is so strong, why are Kalayaan, Amnesty International, the anti-slavery organisations, Liberty, Unite the union and other organisations involved in supporting the people whom she is trying to protect saying to her today from outside the Chamber, “The Government have got this wrong.” The Government have indeed got this wrong. They need to support amendment 72 and ensure that we deal with the issue in a fair and appropriate way. For example, let me give the Minister one quote from Amnesty International. Anybody in the House will accept that Amnesty International is a respected organisation. Amnesty said to me in an e-mail only last night: “We are gravely concerned at the amendment now put forward by the Government. Not only does this not provide any improvement in the position of these workers, but it would place on the statute book a regime under which overseas domestic worker victims of human trafficking and slavery would be provided with less protection than other such victims within the existing National Referral Mechanism system.” The hon. Lady says that that is not the case. I contend that if Amnesty International is criticising the Government, if the other organisations are doing so, if the House of Lords has said that the Government are wrong and if a cross-party royal commission which has looked at the Bill has said that the Government need to change their position now, the Government need to consider that. There will be no right of appeal against a negative decision and no legal aid. Many of the people involved have limited English, are poor and vulnerable, and are being abused by rich and powerful people. The challenges are too great to place upon them. We have an opportunity today to give the House of Lords our support, to put in place this measure which will ensure that the visa is untied and that a level of protection is available. There is still the possibility of tackling issues to do with the minimum wage and other exploitation and to take both criminal action and civil enforcement action outside this Chamber through the anti-slavery commissioner and other aspects of the Bill. The hon. Lady has the chance to do that today, and I hope she will take it.
2015-03-17b.661.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	The right hon. Gentleman is very generous in allowing me to intervene. He hits the nail on the head when he talks about the vulnerability of the victims. We are talking about people who are in an incredibly vulnerable situation and about their chances of making a reasonable and logical decision to move to a non-abusive employer, when the risk is that they will go back to more slavery, more abuse and more servitude, and with the employer they have just escaped from being able to put somebody else into servitude. I think that that risk is too great for us to take. We need to help those people. We need to find them. I fully accept the challenges of finding victims and bringing this crime out into the open, but we are not going to do it if we brush it under the carpet and just let the victims change employers.
2015-03-17b.661.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	There is a disagreement between us, as ever. That is the nature of the debate that we have in the House. I support the Government in trying to tackle long-term abuse by poor employers. I support the Government in trying to drive out abuse carried out through pay and conditions. I hope the National Crime Agency, the anti-slavery commissioner and others will work hard to do that. The difference between us today is the question of the tied visa for employment. The House of Lords, the Committee chaired by my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead, and the charities and organisations outside the House that are working on this issue believe that the Government should accept the Lords amendment. So do I.
2015-03-17b.661.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Mark Durkan	rose—
2015-03-17b.661.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	I was about to commend my point of view to the House, but I cannot resist an intervention from my hon. Friend.
2015-03-17b.661.4	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Mark Durkan	Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that the Minister has said that the employers could go on to employ someone else and subject them to abuse? Does that not expose the risk of the tied visa system? The abuse that the Minister is referring to is an abuse that stems from the tied visa. That is what we need to eradicate.
2015-03-17b.662.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	I am eternally grateful that I allowed my hon. Friend to intervene and I am grateful for his support in Committee when we debated this matter. He has helpfully cemented the central argument that the tied visa is a wrong-headed approach. There were challenges before April 2012; undoubtedly there will always be challenges in this type of situation. However, the tied visa exacerbates it. We have to make this change. I hope that the Government will listen, but if they do not—
2015-03-17b.662.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Emily Thornberry	Governments have been talking for years about bringing in a modern slavery Bill. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is unfortunate that in the last gasp of this Government, they have brought a Bill before the House that will still not address one of the most important aspects of modern slavery?
2015-03-17b.662.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	I remind the House that in taking the position that they have today, the Government are rejecting the cross-party recommendation from my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead and his Committee; rejecting the discussions we had in the Modern Slavery Bill Committee that resulted in a nine-to-nine vote with the Chair casting his vote in favour of the Government; rejecting the will of another place, where a cross-party group of MPs led by Lord Hylton tabled this amendment; and rejecting the advice of every organisation involved in dealing with this issue outside this House. That is for the Government to determine. I am simply saying that if, by the end of this debate, they do not change their mind, I will ask my right hon. and hon. Friends to support the House of Lords amendment and, if that is defeated, reluctantly accept the Government’s late, compromise, dragged-out proposal.
2015-03-17b.662.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Caroline Nokes	Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to speak in this debate on amendments to the Modern Slavery Bill—a critical Bill that will have far-reaching consequences for those who seek to abuse, and indeed have abused, and those who have suffered from that abuse. I was pleased to able to serve on the Committee that scrutinised the Bill, and I can honestly say that it did so in depth and very carefully. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Minister for her commitment to this issue and her determination to get this vital piece of anti-slavery legislation on to the statute book. I recognise that amendment 72, tabled by the noble Lord Hylton, has the very best of intentions, but as my hon. Friend said the most important thing is to get this Bill on to the statute book before Parliament is dissolved in just over a week’s time. If we leave it any later—if the Lords continue to press these amendments—I fear we will lose the Bill altogether and its important work will be undone. Abusers will be safe from the law, while the poor and vulnerable they abuse will have less protection under it.
2015-03-17b.662.4	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	David Hanson	Let me assure the hon. Lady, on behalf of Her Majesty’s Opposition, that we will do nothing to stop the passage of this Bill if the Lords accept the amendment in due course.
2015-03-17b.663.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Caroline Nokes	I thank the shadow Minister for that assurance. My constituents who have contacted me on this issue want to know that there will be additional evidence of legal employer-employee relationships and a confirmation that employers will be forced to pay the minimum wage. The current rules stop employees changing employer, and vice versa, during the term of their visa. Amendment 72 would permit someone on an overseas domestic worker visa to change employer without having to go to the authorities.
2015-03-17b.663.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	Is the hon. Lady aware that under the previous Government, who brought in the three-year visa, people could change their employer, but her Government took that right away? Will she apologise to her constituents for that?
2015-03-17b.663.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Caroline Nokes	I thank the hon. Gentleman for making that point. Let me make the point that his Government had 13 years in which to introduce such legislation. In fact, we have had to wait 200 years for a piece of modern day slavery legislation.
2015-03-17b.663.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Emily Thornberry	Does not the hon. Lady agree, though, that a modern slavery Bill ought to be more than just its title and the campaign behind it? It ought to be good law that will be able to affect the lives of the most vulnerable. Does she not agree that this Bill falls down on that in some important respects?
2015-03-17b.663.4	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Caroline Nokes	Of course we all want this to be good law, which is precisely what the Minister intends. We do not want loopholes that enable slave masters to find new victims; we do not want these slaves to be without the protection we are seeking to give them.
2015-03-17b.663.5	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	Has my hon. Friend reflected on the fact that when the Modern Slavery Bill becomes the Modern Slavery Act and we can say to employers applying for the visa, “If you bring your employee into the United Kingdom and abuse them, you will be subject to life imprisonment”, that will be a big deterrent that should prevent abusive employers who intend to bring in employees and treat them as slaves from doing so?
2015-03-17b.663.6	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Caroline Nokes	I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Of course she is absolutely right—it is a massive deterrent, and we must have it on the statute book. Chief Constable Shaun Sawyer, the national policing lead on modern slavery, and Ian Cruxton, the director of the organised crime command at the National Crime Agency, have expressed concern that the Lords amendment would inadvertently undermine the fight against modern slavery—a fight that we all agree has to be won. I therefore hope that my hon. Friend will advise the Lords to withdraw their amendment, well intentioned as it may be, to ensure that the Bill gets on to the statute book in this Parliament, that those guilty of modern slavery will not be allowed off the hook, and those suffering the misery of it will be given protection and hope.
2015-03-17b.664.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Frank Field	Despite what my hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) said, there has not been a long campaign for this Bill. That is a myth, because it started two summers ago. It is worth registering our thanks not only to the Government but to the whole House and to their lordships for getting the Bill into shape and through to this stage. Nevertheless, however slow anybody listening to this debate is, I think they will realise that there are differences between both Houses. I was immensely pleased by the statements made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) . For domestic workers, the issue we are dealing with is 100% about how they are going to be treated and whether they escape; the totality of the Bill will mean very little to them. Yet we do need to keep our eye on the totality of the Bill, which is immensely important and one this Government will be remembered by. We are clearly going to vote on it today, but I hope that when it goes back to their lordships, they will weigh up the distinct advantages the Government have offered us today on the basis of a simple rejection of the Lords amendment. I also hope that at that stage, disagreements can cease so that the view expressed by the hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) is expressed by the whole House in wanting the Bill to receive Royal Assent next week and be put safely on to the statute book. Then, in the new Parliament, we can have an inquiry into this aspect of the law, and whoever is in government can add to the existing Act and we will not have to debate whether we need another Bill.
2015-03-17b.664.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Heather Wheeler	I approach this debate with, perhaps, a different viewpoint from some other people in the Chamber. The midlands is a thriving area—the beating heart of the economy, in my humble opinion. It is very interesting to see the aspect of modern day slavery that can show itself in tarmacking gangs and farm gangs. It is absolutely disgraceful that such things are going on in this day and age. I thank the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) for what he said about the Bill. It will be groundbreaking legislation that any Government ought to be, and certainly my Government will be, proud of. It is crucial in all respects, because we need to put a big message out there that our country looks after vulnerable people, that it is a country of law and order, and that nobody should come here thinking they can employ people and abuse them. That will not be tolerated by my Government, my country, and my people. I am very proud of this Bill. I disagree with the Lords amendment and agree with the one we have tabled in lieu. The important thing is that people feel comfortable and confident that they can go to first responders and be looked after. I almost wish that we did not need to have this Bill, but I am incredibly proud that we have brought it in. It will be a very special day when it gets on to the statute book.
2015-03-17b.664.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Fiona Mactaggart	I am very sad about this debate on Lords amendment 72. For some time, we have debated the treatment of overseas domestic workers. Before the Government changed the immigration rules, I wrote a report called, “Service not servitude”, and we have debated it since then. I am glad that we are debating it in the context of modern slavery because, horrifyingly, a shocking number of overseas domestic workers have to submit to slave-like conditions. I am sad, however, because although Government amendment (a) in lieu looks as though it gives rights to such very vulnerable victims, it actually offers them less than other victims of modern slavery, which is very distressing. There is the proposal to give someone a six-month visa. A number of my Slough constituents who for one reason or another are subject to immigration control have only six months left on their visa. The Minister will know that Slough has a pretty buoyant employment market, but it can be impossible, even for constituents in a category which means they are almost certain to have their visa renewed, to find a new employer in that six-month period. Why? Because no employer wants to employ someone who only has six months left to stay. Unless the employer is offering a tiny little temporary job, it is very unusual for someone in that situation to be able to secure new employment. Let us look at the Government’s record. We have heard much about it in relation to the Bill’s introduction, but what about overseas domestic workers? This Government, along with that of Panama, Sudan, El Salvador, Malaysia, Singapore and the Czech Republic—think of having them as comrades—is one of very few Governments in the world to refuse to support the International Labour Organisation convention on decent work for domestic workers. Why do I bring that up? Because the exploitation of domestic workers does not always amount to enslavement: the courts have sometimes decided that people who are vilely exploited are not enslaved, and are not eligible for some of the existing protections under the regulations on trafficking. If we are ambitious for world-leading legislation, one thing we must do is to ensure that workers are not paid less than the minimum wage, or are exploited or made to work ridiculous hours or in dangerous conditions. All those things would be protected if we had signed up to the ILO convention, but——guess what?—we did not. The Government have form on that. The Minister tells us that there will be tough guidance on interviewing people separately to ensure a sort of pre-entry protection against modern slavery. I am really glad about that, but I remember being told that there was tough guidance on people carrying their own passport through immigration control. Indeed, there is such guidance for immigration officers, but in speaking to victims who are overseas domestic workers, I have yet to find one who did so. I am afraid that the Minister’s tough guidance just does not work. The guidance is not sufficient protection, and neither is the six-month visa, while the failure to sign up to the ILO convention is another example of inadequate protection. The Minister has cited senior police officers who believe that her proposed changes will increase the number of overseas domestic workers willing to be police narks. Well, it might, but it might not. As we know from the evidence of battered women and all other victims of abuse, the best way to encourage victims of abuse to give evidence is to focus on the support and advice they need. Kalayaan, with which I have worked for a scary number of years, is the organisation with the pre-eminent record in doing so. It has a real record of working closely with such women, and in providing them with the kind of advice that best enables them to get their rights, such as they exist. Under the old system, it regularly helped women domestic workers to get their passports back, because—guess what?—their employers used to steal them and hold on to them. Such support will not be provided by the Minister’s amendment (a). To suggest to people, “Oh, you get support if you become a police nark, and as long as you support this, or on condition that you do that”, is not the way to enable people to get control over their own lives, which the Minister said she wanted to achieve.
2015-03-17b.666.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Heather Wheeler	I love the passion with which the hon. Lady speaks about this issue, but I really think she is missing the big picture. If we do not do something about this, new people will be enslaved day in, day out in such domestic situations. There has to be a change, and what she is offering will not give us that change.
2015-03-17b.666.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Fiona Mactaggart	Actually, Lords amendment 72 would make exactly the change that the hon. Lady says we need. It would support victims and trust them to take control of their own lives, whereas, frankly, there is a real risk that the Minister’s amendment (a) will infantilise victims. I know from working with victims of abuse that the best way to make them agree to be witnesses and to give them control over their own lives is to support them in taking the lead, not to tell them that as long as they collaborate, they can get this, that or the other. I welcome the involvement of the hon. Member for South Derbyshire (Heather Wheeler) and I am glad to see other people focusing on this issue, but those of us who have focused on it for a long time and who argued that ending the ability to switch visas would produce the kind of kafala system now common in Britain have been proved right. We are very sad to have been proved right, but I am glad that Members from every party, including Conservative Members, have regretted their former decisions and recognised that what the Lords are seeking is a better way to protect such vulnerable victims than the proposal the Minister has tried to sell us. If we trust and protect the victims in such a way, we will significantly reduce the level of slavery in Britain today.
2015-03-17b.666.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	The Minister has become much more skilful at arguing her brief than she was at the beginning of the process on the Bill. We forgave her for reading her text line by line in the beginning, but we will not forgive her for what she has done today. She rose to excuse a police-drafted clause with a fixation on criminality and catching bad people. Catching bad people is fine: I totally support it, as I have in the campaign that I have run for a long time and since long before there was engagement by the Minister or her colleague, the hon. Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith) , who is sitting smiling on the second Bench. The reality, however, is that if we substitute the rights of victims with the overarching demand to catch criminals or bad people, we sometimes sacrifice the victims in that pursuit. Government amendment (a) takes the that line. If an overseas domestic worker coming forward in relation to an employment situation is not paid, are they a slave? If they are held by somebody who has their passport but does not give it back and does not pay them—perhaps feeds them, and perhaps does not beat them—they are still slaves. Are the police likely to take information from those people to pursue the employer? Probably not. Will those people be able to leave their employer and say, “I want to go somewhere where I will be paid and treated correctly; where I will be treated with respect, not as a slave, but as a worker”? A worker expects to be treated properly. If people are treated badly by their employer who has brought them to this country, it is still slavery as far as I am concerned.
2015-03-17b.667.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	rose—
2015-03-17b.667.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	Is that slavery as far as the Minister is concerned?
2015-03-17b.667.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	I say again that, yes, I want victims to provide information that enables us to catch the perpetrators and increase the number of prosecutions. However, when somebody comes forward and is referred to the national referral mechanism, it does not require the involvement of the police at any point in the process. The UK Human Trafficking Centre and UK Visas and Immigration make those decisions at the moment. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have reviewed the national referral mechanism and will be piloting the use of panels to make those decisions. Those will not be law enforcement bodies. Law enforcement will be involved only if people can provide evidence that will enable us to catch the perpetrator. If somebody goes through the national referral mechanism and gets a conclusive grounds decision, they will be granted a minimum of six months to stay and work in the country for any employer. That does not need to involve the police at any stage in the process.
2015-03-17b.667.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	The Minister did not answer the question that I asked. If someone is not paid and their employer holds their passport, are they enslaved? I ask her to clarify that. It seems that she is not willing to speak about that. Of course, that is not likely to lead the police to prosecute the person who kept their passport and kept them in a domestic home in the UK. We might be talking about longer than 15 days. The Minister mentioned people who live with the staff of embassies. She did not elucidate on that point, but that is where some of the worst malpractice has happened. Amendment (a) states that leave to remain will be granted to an overseas domestic worker “who has been determined to be a victim of slavery or human trafficking, and…in relation to whom such other requirements are met as may be provided for by the rules.” It goes on to specify what the rules must provide for. My concern is for the victim. My second concern is to create the conditions in which the victim wants to deal with an abusive employer. It might not be someone who beats them up. It might be somebody who refuses to pay them or who gives them just a small allowance like pocket money that is not adequate to live on, which is what many domestic workers get when they come here. Will we prosecute those employers? I hope we will, because that is a breach of our laws.
2015-03-17b.668.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. That is a breach of our employment laws. HMRC is pursuing the employers of overseas domestic workers to ensure that they pay the national minimum wage and observe our employment laws. However, where somebody is the victim of slavery, qualifies under the national referral mechanism for specialist support and gets conclusive grounds, amendment (a) will enable them to work here for six months.
2015-03-17b.668.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	Amendment (a) is deficient. Lords amendment 72 is simple and states that people can “change their employer (but not work sector) while in the United Kingdom”. That is the first choice they should be able to make. If a domestic worker who comes here is a victim and is not treated properly, they should be able to move to another employer while their visa is running. That was the basis of what was put forward by the Joint Committee on the Draft Modern Slavery Bill. That was the basis of what was proposed in the Public Bill Committee. However, it was not carried. We know about the deficiencies in the Liberal view at that time. I hope that the Liberal Democrats have changed their mind. Today, we can support the simple Lords amendment and carry the spirit of what was recommended by the Joint Committee. My second point on the protection of victims is about the way in which we encourage people to take up the right to stay. The hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) said that nothing had been done in that respect. In 2009, the Labour Government brought in a three-year visa that allowed domestic workers to leave unacceptable or abusive employers, including the kind of employer I have described who does not pay wages or respect people properly as workers. The current Government overturned that and closed that door to people. It is unlikely that the people I have met through Kalayaan and other organisations who work with these victims will go into the national referral mechanism, because they have an aversion to formal institutions. We know that. Through the Human Trafficking Foundation, we have talked to 60 or 70 non-governmental organisations, all of which have the same problem: the victims do not trust the institutions of the state in this country. Whether we like it or not, the Government’s proposal says that if people are willing to be a witness and help the police to prosecute their former employer, they will get support and be able to stay for up to a year. That is not the way to do it. The way to do it is to allow people to move employer and to create a structure that allows them afterwards to go willingly to those organisations that are willing to give them a bit of muscle if they feel aggrieved enough about the abuse they have suffered. Most people who have not been paid or have just been paid pocket money are not likely to want to pursue their employer, but they have the same right to move as someone who is willing to go up against an employer who has beaten or stabbed them or treated them abusively. Why should we distinguish between these two sets of people? Legally, they are not being treated as they should be as workers, or are we to distinguish between foreign workers and our workers?
2015-03-17b.668.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Heather Wheeler	I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman genuinely misunderstands what is going on here. He is an experienced Member, but I wonder whether people really understand that what he is saying is that if somebody comes here on this sort of visa, he will give them carte blanche to go and do something else.
2015-03-17b.669.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Fiona Mactaggart	That’s not what we’re saying.
2015-03-17b.669.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Heather Wheeler	That is exactly what the hon. Gentleman is suggesting. He is going into realms that are not to do with protecting people from modern slavery, which is what the Bill is about.
2015-03-17b.669.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	As I am the person who forced the Prime Minister eventually to sign up to the directive on human trafficking, which he had refused to do for several months, during which he wiggled and wriggled, I do not have to apologise to anybody and I do not need it explained to me what the Bill is about. It is a good Bill, but it could be improved immensely. I do not know whether the hon. Lady has read Lords amendment 72, but it says that people should be able to “change their employer (but not work sector) while in the United Kingdom”. It is quite clear that it is about people going from domestic work into domestic work. I hope that the House will agree to the amendment. Finally, I want to question the whole idea of creating this rather tortuous process. It has always been a problem that the Government have seen the Bill as, first and foremost, a criminal Bill to chase people who abuse others through human trafficking and slavery. Many of us hold the view that we should first protect those who are enslaved or abused and then convince them to become witnesses and to help in that secondary programme. If we get the two things back to front, what happens? The victims do not become witnesses and the people who abuse others escape, as they have been escaping. I believe that if we agree to amendment (a), we will have another tortuous process that will become another barrier that makes people stay away from the institutions, because it is not about protecting the victims; it is about the Government’s obsession with catching the bad people.
2015-03-17b.669.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Emily Thornberry	I remember welcoming the Government’s move to opt into the EU directive on human trafficking in March 2011. I learned this afternoon that that was the result of the work of my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty) . I congratulate him on that. It seemed to me that the Government were putting themselves in a contradictory position by signing up to the EU directive on human trafficking. The European Court of Justice has said that any country signing up to the directive “must refrain from taking any measures liable seriously to compromise the result prescribed.” It seems to me that signing up to a directive is about more that putting our country’s name to a piece of paper; we must sign up to the spirit of it, too. As I have said, the European Court of Justice has said that we must not go backwards. I read with interest the speech of the former Attorney-General, the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve) , to City university about the role of UK law as a model for combating human trafficking and slavery, in which he summarised the progress that had been made. I was very concerned that it was entirely contradictory for the Government on the one hand to sign up to the directive and trumpet the work that had been done to combat human trafficking and slavery, yet on the other hand to change the immigration rules to make life much more difficult for domestic workers. That seemed a complete contradiction, so on 30 April 2012 I wrote to the former Attorney-General to point that out. He referred me to the Home Office, which wrote back. I am glad that it has moved on from the position that it adopted on 16 June 2012 , when it stated: “The position is that, if an ODW has been granted a visa to come to the UK to work for their overseas employer while that employer is visiting the UK, the ODW will have leave to remain in the UK in line with that granted to the employer—ie, up to 6 months’ leave (the maximum grant of leave for visitors). If an ODW leaves their employer during the time of the visit to the UK, the ODW will retain whatever time remains of the original leave granted and so will not be in the UK illegally during that time.” That did not seem terrible generous. Let us suppose an overseas domestic worker came with a visa to stay in the UK for a certain amount of time. If they left their employer because of abuse, they could remain until their visa ran out but then they had to go. The letter continued: “The ODW will not be entitled to work for another employer, but they will not be in the UK illegally unless or until the leave expires.” As I said, we have moved on from that, but it seems that alarm bells have been ringing about abused and exploited overseas domestic workers for many years. Many of those who have raised the alarm have spoken today in the House, and many organisations outside have done so. The Government have spent a number of years preparing such a Bill, and I am disappointed and surprised that, to try to get the Bill through the House today, they are putting this matter back for yet another review. Many people with much greater experience in this issue have been assisting the Government as best they can for some time. They have coalesced around this amendment in the House of Lords, and although I listened carefully to the Minister when she explained why the amendment is not satisfactory, I still do not understand. Not to accept that the Lords amendment seems to fly in the face of the collective common sense in this place. Perhaps I can add my ha’pence worth. We have heard a great deal about how important it is for victims to give evidence against their employers in court, and that to encourage them to come forward it is important they understand that their continued presence within the United Kingdom will be dependent on their giving evidence against their employers, or assisting the police to ensure that those employers are prosecuted. I hear and understand that point, but it makes no sense.
2015-03-17b.670.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Fiona Mactaggart	My hon. Friend is a lawyer and has court experience of these matters. Will she comment on advice I have received from Parosha Chandran, which suggests that where leave is granted as a result of someone coming forward, a prosecution might be more difficult to secure? Although 29 victims of slavery have had conclusive decisions referred by Kalayaan, there has been only one successful prosecution for domestic worker abuse.
2015-03-17b.671.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Emily Thornberry	My right hon. Friend—it is a pleasure to say that—is absolutely right, and in a way she predicts the point I was going to make. In my former manifestation as a criminal lawyer, we always looked for what might be the primary motivation for why a witness would be giving evidence. If we could cross-examine a victim and say, “You’re only saying that to stay in the United Kingdom. Your continued presence within the United Kingdom is dependent on you co-operating with the police. You’re gilding the lily; you are making up lies and doing what you can to remain here,” that would undermine the credibility of the witness. In the end, any prosecution for slavery will be entirely dependent on the evidence of that woman. That is why witnesses need to be empowered, and why it must be clear that a witness has come forward entirely freely and honestly, so that we can have a powerful prosecution. That is the way to combat modern slavery in the context of overseas domestic workers.
2015-03-17b.671.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Paul Blomfield	I commend the Minister for the passion with which she spoke earlier about the vulnerability of victims. I do not doubt her integrity or motives, and I am grateful for the time that she found to talk to me and the policy director of Focus on Labour Exploitation—that is one NGO in the long list cited by the shadow Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) , that shares the concerns about the way the Government are approaching this issue. A number of Government Members have spoken with equal passion about the importance of getting the Bill into statute, and the Opposition share that. The simplest way would have been for the Government not to have challenged Lords amendment 72, because it helps to ensure that our efforts to combat modern slavery are not undermined by an immigration system that ties workers into slavery. We are now agreed across the House that the tied domestic worker visa effectively gives all power to employers and none to their vulnerable employees. It forces domestic workers who are exploited by their employers to make the unenviable choice between breaching their visa conditions or staying with an abusive employer. As was mentioned earlier, there have been three reviews on this issue: the first was by the Centre of Social Justice, which so often has the ear of the Government; the second was by my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) ; and the third was by the joint legislative Committee on this Bill. All reviews came to the same conclusion: the tied domestic worker visa strengthens the hand of the slave master against the victim of slavery. The Government should not ignore those reviews and should recognise that Lords amendment 72 seeks to address the concerns raised. The amendment is not a silver bullet; it simply wrestles a small amount of power back to the domestic worker from her or his employer—that is all. If accepted, however, the amendment will help to prevent many cases of abuse. As was mentioned earlier, those with an interest in these issues struggle to understand why the Government are so unwilling to accept the amendment. The Home Secretary has suggested that the Bill seeks to be “world leading”, but that was our pre-2012 position on this issue. My right hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) cited the kafala system that has led to countless cases of abuse in Lebanon, and NGOs used the pre-2012 UK overseas domestic worker visa as an example of best practice. We were commended for immigration rules that recognised “the particular vulnerability of migrant domestic workers to exploitation and incorporate fundamental protections as a result.” Later that year, we lost those protections, and the amendment seeks to restore them. If the Bill is to be taken seriously as a genuine effort to tackle modern-day slavery, Lords amendment 72 should stand unchanged. Many of us are concerned that the Government are proposing not only to reject the amendment but to insert their own amendment that would provide domestic workers with the right to remain in the UK, but—this is an enormous but—only if they are determined to be a victim of trafficking by the authorities. I understand the Government’s reasoning, which the Minister has outlined, in seeking to secure prosecutions, but the protection of victims and securing prosecutions are not mutually exclusive aims.
2015-03-17b.672.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful speech, and I thank him for mentioning Focus on Labour Exploitation, which is now part of our stakeholder group working on modern slavery. I want victims to go into the national referral mechanism to give them the support they need and to ensure that those vulnerable people who have been subjected to the most horrendous abuse get the right level of expert support. I want them to go into the NRM, so that we ensure that we give them back control of their lives. We have gone through a review and I fully accept that the NRM needs changes, but the new reviewed NRM is designed to give people the support they need.
2015-03-17b.672.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Paul Blomfield	I understand what the Minister is saying, but let me explain why I think the Government’s approach is problematic. The Government’s amendments would mean that a domestic worker will have to take the risk of presenting to the authorities to gain the determination of being a victim of trafficking. The domestic worker would have to do so without legal advice, as legal aid would be granted only once referral is made. Secondly, they provide for no immigration enforcement action to be taken against domestic workers, should they breach immigration conditions, again only if they are found to be a victim of trafficking or slavery. That will do nothing to allay the genuine fears of domestic workers that, if they put their heads above the parapet to seek assistance, they could face deportation. My hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) has made it very clear how the criminal justice system might treat victims in that situation. Indeed, they would face deportation if they decide they do not wish to go through the NRM, which should be their right. Therefore, far from achieving the desired result the Minister seeks to outline, the amendment risks achieving the absolute opposite: stopping victims coming forward and reducing the chances of prosecutions.
2015-03-17b.672.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Jim Cunningham	If my hon. Friend were to consider, for example, normal industrial relations, it takes a lot for somebody—an individual who is an ordinary citizen of this country—to come forward and make a complaint about an employer. It must be 10 times worse for somebody whose immigration conditions are tied to an employer to come forward. The Minister may understand that point, but she is not addressing it adequately.
2015-03-17b.673.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Paul Blomfield	My hon. Friend makes the point very powerfully: there is enormous pressure on victims not to come forward. The Government’s position is indicative of their whole approach. It puts the responsibility on victims to come forward to secure prosecutions to end trafficking. Unlike Lords amendment 72, which places the emphasis on how best to protect victims, the Government are instead trying, with their amendments, to refocus on the need for victims to do the authorities’ work for them. It almost suggests the victims are guilty of something if they do not want to take this enormous risk. The Minister is shaking her head, but the Government’s approach does not take account of why victims are scared to come forward, nor does it recognise that trafficked people are frequently trapped in a trafficking situation because of a fear—real or perceived—of authorities. Traffickers prey on that fear to hold victims in exploitative situations.
2015-03-17b.673.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Fiona Mactaggart	Another problem with the Government’s proposed amendments relates to people who are exploited but not enslaved. For example, a woman domestic worker is more vulnerable to sexual exploitation, because she works in the private family home and so on, but she would not benefit from these protections because she could not enter the NRM. She is not enslaved, but she might have been a victim of sexual exploitation or rape. There is no mechanism to protect her.
2015-03-17b.673.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Paul Blomfield	My right hon. Friend makes a very powerful additional point on why the Government’s approach is flawed. My overriding concern is that, despite the Government’s stated commitment to tackling modern slavery, the Bill is still far too dependent on the victims rather than the state to identify the perpetrators of trafficking and slavery. That is not only morally wrong; unfortunately for the Government, it is also illegally flawed. The European Court of Human Rights has held that the state has a positive obligation to protect victims of trafficking and to investigate potential trafficking situations. Lords amendment 72 brings us much closer to meeting that positive obligation. It provides victims with a clear safety net: the ability to leave an exploitative situation without hesitation. We all need to play our part to combat the horrific crime of modern slavery, but the agencies of government are legally obliged to take a proactive role in identifying potential cases. It seems that in the absence of an effective prevention strategy to meet that aim, the Government are depending on victims to pick up the slack when they really need proactive labour inspection and enforcement. That is a point I will make further, if I have the opportunity, in relation to Government amendment 77.
2015-03-17b.673.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Mark Reckless	I am grateful for your indulgence, Madam Deputy Speaker. I entered the Chamber during the speech by the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), who made some compelling points. I intended only to listen to the debate before making up my mind between the Government’s and the Opposition’s approach, and I am pleased that the differences seem to have narrowed. There appears, at least in the Home Secretary’s amendment, to be something of a spirit of compromise. I am surprised by the temperature of the debate on both sides of the House, because Parliament is acting in one of its better ways. This debate has risen up the agenda very strongly in recent years. I do not think the Government should be criticised for putting a Bill through Parliament only just before Dissolution and I do not think the Opposition should be criticised for not having acted during 13 years in government. Politicians and society as a whole have turned their minds to this issue only recently. As far as I am concerned, I do not think I turned my mind to it before 2011. I apologise if I have got this wrong but it may have been a report from MigrationWatch UK that drew my attention to the sharply rising numbers of people—I think they were referred to at that time as being in the domestic servants category—coming into the country. The report asked whether that was right and appropriate. The Government’s changes to the visa in 2012 were, overall, positive and they reduced the time that somebody could be an overseas domestic servant. It strikes me as understandable, if not necessarily right, that a family from overseas visiting this country for a relatively short period and who have a long relationship with the people who have been working in their household might wish to bring those people with them. They may be very well-off and used to having a level of service from particular individuals. What struck me as much less reasonable was for that relationship to persist for a very long time: very wealthy families coming to this country and permanently continuing to have staff who had previously worked for them, or bringing in new staff from their country of residence and using only those staff rather than employing people domestically. In terms of immigration control, I fear there is something about the overseas domestic servant category that is liable to exploitation. I wonder whether there are shades of grey or whether there is a lack of clarity on where precisely the line is drawn when one moves from service to servitude and then to slavery. To try to change the law to mitigate, reduce and minimise—it would be wonderful if we could eliminate it—that exploitation is the right thing for this House to do. Moving from people being employed in that way for very long periods to a maximum of six months strikes me as definitely the right thing to do. What the Government have done is really positive. Whether it is right to see this more from the criminal justice perspective, or whether we should simply allow people to switch to different employers in a more liberal way, as the House of Lords wants, is a difficult question. However, I believe there is a sincerity of approach on both sides of the House and that we have moved on hugely. I assume the Lords amendment will be defeated in a Division and that the Government’s alternative amendment will pass. I hope that if the Lords come back again, it may be to find perhaps even further compromise, or to take some of the positives of the Lords approach and to consider some of the criticisms that the Opposition have made of the Home Secretary’s amendment. However, I agree that what is absolutely key is to pass the Bill. We still need to focus on the diplomatic domestic service category, where people can work still for up to five years although I think it used to be six. I think that the prospect of prison is likely to have a persuasive effect on an abusive employer who employs someone in a private household for six months, although it will be a challenge to communicate to both overseas domestic workers and the families employing them that that consequence is a real one. In the diplomatic sector, however, given diplomatic immunity, I fear that that incentive might not be so great because the period that people are in service is much longer. I worry that, given the Government’s understandable concern for our relationships with foreign countries, we might not come close to eradicating servitude, if not modern slavery, in those categories. We must continue to focus on that area not just in legislation but through our foreign relations. In conclusion, I strongly support the Bill’s passage. Despite its genesis, I supported our acceptance of the human trafficking directive, and I believe that what the House and campaign groups have done on this subject over the last few years should be commended.
2015-03-17b.675.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Mark Durkan	Unlike the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood (Mark Reckless) , having been here throughout this debate, having sat through the Public Bill Committee and having been present for all the Bill’s other stages in the House, I am not surprised at the heat generated by Lords amendment 72 and the Government amendment to it. I will not rehearse the issues raised in Committee. Instead, I will concentrate on some of the issues heard this afternoon. It has been argued that because this is such an important and welcome Bill, it is untoward to argue over amendments. It is an abuse of the procedural requirements of this place for Government Members to suggest that anybody pressing a point in relation to these amendments threatens the Bill at large or would be happy to see it frustrated or set aside. The attempt, here in this Chamber, where we talk about being mature legislators, to create the impression of an abuse of process and a scaring process should give us pause for thought about what is at play in these amendments. The Government amendment provides that if an overseas domestic worker wants to exit a position of slavery, they can do so only if they participate in the national referral mechanism. They will have to engage in a process they might not know about or understand, and they might have their own particular fears, misgivings or hang-ups. They will have been subject to intimidation, having effectively been employed as chattels of their employer, courtesy of the kafala-style system that operates for domestic visa workers. The idea is that these victims—people on the margins of the margin—should have confidence that their position will be transformed by the national referral mechanism. I wish that were the case. The Minister has emphasised that the Government amendment aims to ensure that when a domestic worker leaves a situation of slavery, that can help to ensure prosecution. The national policing lead and the director of crime command for the National Crime Agency have been quoted as saying that the Lords amendment would be at fault because it would undermine the capacity of the authorities to secure more prosecutions. When I asked the Minister about the experience of the national referral mechanism in terms of the number of conclusive decisions made compared with the number of successful prosecutions, she did not answer, although the right hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) subsequently gave us an indication. In quoting the figure from the legal advice to Anti-Slavery International, she gave the example of Kalayaan, which supports victims, and mentioned that 29 conclusive decisions had been made. However, there is only on record one conviction of an overseas domestic worker employer, so the link between the national referral mechanism and successful prosecutions is not strong. For that reason, the argument used by Government Members—that supporting the Lords amendment would undermine or wash away any prospect of prosecution—is entirely false. I understand that the Minister will probably argue that that has been the case with the national referral mechanism historically—we all accept that it has had its flaws—but the reform of the mechanism that is to be implemented follows last autumn’s publication of a review, and of course that review will be subject to pilots that will have to be implemented and then evaluated, which will probably take a year or more. Separately, as we heard from the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) and others, we know that the Government have instituted a review of tied visas by James Ewins. If the Government are conducting a review of tied visas, and if we have acknowledged that there are issues with the national referral mechanism—issues that I hope will be addressed by the reforms that are to take place but which are as yet untested and unproved—surely it would be reasonable for the Government to accept the Lords amendment and then revisit the issues around tied visas, first, following the review and evaluations of the changes to the national referral mechanism, and secondly, after the review by James Ewins has reported. At least victims on overseas domestic worker visas would then have the autonomous right to escape their victimhood. It is interesting that in one of her interventions today the Minister said that the reason the Government amendment rested so much on the victim co-operating with the national referral mechanism was to give victims control. Surely victims would have control if they could vacate their exploitative employment autonomously and then have the right to seek alternative employment. If the Government are worried that the abusive employer might then escape scrutiny and employ somebody else, that brings us back to the hole in the bucket, dear Liza, of this whole question: the tied visa system is a licence to employers to exploit and abuse employees. If the Government’s best argument against the Lords amendment is the likelihood of employers using the device of the tied visa system simply to repeat the same abuse, the Government should be questioning their position more fundamentally, rather than relying on their amendment.
2015-03-17b.676.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Mark Reckless	Is the hon. Gentleman not concerned that subsection (b) of the Lords amendment, which would allow workers in these categories to extend for up to 12 months each time, might create a sub-category of foreign domestic servant, separate from the domestic labour market, and that would make exploitation more likely?
2015-03-17b.677.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Mark Durkan	As any evidence emerges, we will have to consider what it suggests about this sector of employment in general and individual employers in particular. This goes back to some of the arguments the Government have used in support of their own amendment and against the Lords amendment. If a domestic worker were to change their employer under the visa entitlement the Lords amendment would give them, it would be known to an authority, and the authority should be duly asking questions. It would then be for somebody else—perhaps not the victim—to notify the national referral mechanism and for issues to take place there. In separate interventions today, the Minister seemed to make different arguments. On the one hand, the Government amendment was defended on the grounds that it would lead to more prosecutions of abusive employers by ensuring that victims co-operated with the national referral mechanism and therefore that their victimhood would translate into active cases. That is what we were being told by the policing lead and the National Crime Agency. Then, in another intervention, the Minister made the point that the national referral mechanism was not of itself hidebound in achieving prosecutions and not necessarily police or prosecution-driven in any way. We cannot have both arguments being used in contradictory ways here. I ask the Government to listen to their own arguments and to think about some of the things they are relying on in respect of their own amendments. They should think again about pressing those amendments; the chances are that they will have to revise them in the light of subsequent reviews and evaluations. The sensible thing to do—and most in keeping with the spirit claimed for this Bill, as being “world-leading” legislation—would be to accept the Lords amendments and, if necessary, qualify them by revisiting the issues in the light of subsequent reviews.
2015-03-17b.677.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	rose—
2015-03-17b.677.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Eleanor Laing	With the leave of the House, I will call the Minister briefly to speak again and answer the debate.
2015-03-17b.677.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am grateful that you have given me the House’s leave to respond to the points raised. I am grateful to all right hon. and hon. Members who have spoken in the debate. I know, as do we all, that there is a shared desire across this House and the other place to protect all victims of modern slavery. I will endeavour to address as quickly as I can the specific concerns raised, but I first want to note the point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman) about the pre-legislative scrutiny committee’s various recommendations. She made the important point that the vote and recommendations for the committee took place before the Bill was published and the Government amendments were framed—before the review was announced and before the amendment in lieu we are debating today. I want to put on record my thanks and to pay my tribute to the members of the pre-legislative scrutiny committee, the Bill Committee and Members in the other place who have helped the Government to amend the Bill, making it a stronger and better Bill as a result. The right hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) talked about not ratifying the International Labour Organisation’s convention on domestic workers. She will know that we do not believe that ratifying it would strengthen the extensive measures we already have in the UK to prevent slavery and human trafficking. We believe we go further in respect of slavery and human trafficking than the convention asks for. It is important to strike the right balance between protecting vulnerable workers and ensuring that aspects of employment law which can carry criminal sanction are not extended to private households. Ratifying the convention would require the imposition of unnecessarily onerous obligations on, for example, people employing home helps or personal carers, and would be neither practical nor proportionate. The right hon. Lady also said that she did not consider a six-month visa for victims to be sufficiently long. The Government’s initial intention is to grant a six-month visa to enable victims to earn some money and begin to rebuild their lives as they plan their return home. We believe this to be an appropriate period. It is of course the maximum time for which an overseas domestic worker visa is usually issued—they are issued for six months, and we will proceed with six months. We will of course consider any recommendations that James Ewins makes in his review as to whether the period should be varied, along with other evidence put forward. Six months is the minimum, and it can be amended in immigration law.
2015-03-17b.678.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Andrew Stunell	I appreciate the Minister’s giving way and I know she is working hard in this area. If six months is the minimum, will she describe the circumstances in which that would not be the automatic figure? In what circumstances might a period longer than six months be granted under the guidance she is suggesting?
2015-03-17b.678.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	If the right hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I would have to say that it depends on the individual circumstances. Perhaps I shall write to him with some examples, if that would be acceptable. The right hon. Member for Slough also made a point about people carrying their passports through the border. If she has evidence that people are being treated in this way while going through the border, will she please supply it to us, because I would like Border Force and others to look at that and act on it. The hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty) expressed his view that the Bill is not victim focused. I disagree: I think it is. The Bill before us has changed significantly from the draft Bill published in December 2013, and almost all the amendments made in the other place are in support of victim protection. I thus feel strongly that we have made it a victim-focused Bill. The hon. Gentleman also made a point that was reiterated by the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) . I was confused. [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman seemed to imply that, irrespective of whether someone on one of these visas was being abused, they should be allowed to change employer. [Interruption.] The argument was that if somebody came to the UK and all the terms and conditions were fulfilled and all the expectations met, that was still not good enough and they should be allowed to change— [Interruption.]
2015-03-17b.679.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Eleanor Laing	Order. Members have put many questions to the Minister during a long debate. She is now answering them, and the House should have the courtesy to listen to her.
2015-03-17b.679.1	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As I was saying, I am slightly confused. It worries me that we are having a debate about immigration when we should be debating slavery, which is what this Bill is about.
2015-03-17b.679.2	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Chloe Smith	Does the Minister agree that we seem to have heard the Labour Front-Bench team and the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty) being what some might call soft on immigration, in the sense of opening up this debate to all workers? The hon. Gentleman said explicitly that this was not just about victims, but about everybody.
2015-03-17b.679.3	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	My hon. Friend makes an important point. I have been confused. I thought we were discussing modern slavery, yet I have heard that this is about opening up immigration rules.
2015-03-17b.679.4	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	The Minister is setting up a straw man to knock it down. In the specific case I mentioned, someone is brought to this country and not paid—or given only pocket money, which many of the Kalayaan victims tell me is what happens. They are not physically abused, locked in a cupboard and fed the scraps the dog does not want—they are just not paid. There is a kafala system, in that the domestic visa and passport are held by the employer. Is such a person enslaved or not? I would say yes; does the Minister say no?
2015-03-17b.679.5	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	The hon. Gentleman will know that it would depend on the individual circumstances. It is clear, however, that in the situation he describes, British laws have been broken, so I would expect action to be taken to ensure that that was rectified. The point remains that the right hon. Member for Delyn, speaking for the Opposition, said that he wants the tie to be removed for all employees, even if they are not being abused. That sounds a strange and surprising position to take, given that there is so much concern about loopholes and other ways through which immigration rules can be flouted.
2015-03-17b.679.6	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Michael Connarty	In taking evidence about Qatar in the Committee I chair at the Council of Europe, I heard about a case mentioned by the Union of Construction, Allied Trades and Technicians, in which people had their passports taken off them by their employers and were not paid. The person giving evidence said that these people were slaves, and I agree. If that is happening in Qatar and the same is happening in this country—people not being paid by their employers, who are holding their passports—I would say that it is an exact example of slavery in the modern world.
2015-03-17b.680.0	JUSTICE	Protection from slavery for overseas domestic workers	Karen Bradley	As I have said, I cannot get drawn into individual examples. It would depend on the individual circumstances and on what has been said. Clearly, however, the law has been broken in that case, so action should be taken. The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) accepted that workers were abused in the previous system—but then seemed to suggest that she wanted to go back to such a system. That is not acceptable. She also talked about the EU directive. We are confident that we fully meet all our obligations under the EU directive for all victims of trafficking, including those on overseas domestic worker visas. The hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) made the point that this issue is very complicated, and he is absolutely right that there is no silver bullet. If there were, we would not have between 10,000 and 13,000 victims of slavery here in Britain today. That is unacceptable and shows why the Modern Slavery Bill is so important. We need to ensure that it is enacted, so that we can take action against the perpetrators and protect the victims. The hon. Gentleman questioned the use of the term “world-leading”. Let me give the House some facts about countries with similar immigration systems. In Australia, the domestic worker visa allows a person to work only for the named employer. The employee cannot become unemployed or work for someone else. In Canada, only the diplomatic route allows a change of employer, and the change must be approved by the Protocol Office. In the United States, overseas domestic workers may work only for a diplomat, an international employee or a visitor. Those who accompany visitors must certify that they will not accept other employment while working for the employer. In Ireland, workers are expected to leave at the end of their employment. It seems to me that we are not out of step with international comparators, and that we can be proud of the fact that this is a world-leading Bill. The hon. Gentleman also mentioned the independent review. Its terms of reference are available, and I will forward them to him if he cannot find them in the Library or elsewhere. The review will consider the issues and what the best solutions are, so that victims can be helped and further abuse prevented. The Government acknowledge that some domestic workers may have been employed abroad with terms and conditions that do not accord with United Kingdom law and expectations. However, the requirement to prove, as part of an overseas domestic worker via application, that there is a pre-existing, ongoing employment relationship outside the United Kingdom provides the best assurance available that an established employer-employee relationship is in operation. As for the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood (Mark Reckless) , I am grateful for his support for the Bill. I am not sure whether he supports the amendment, but I will say to him, rather cheekily, that if I see him in the Lobby today, it will probably mean that I am seeing him more frequently than I did when he sat on my side of the House. The hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) talked about prosecutions and the focus of the Bill. Its focus is on finding the victims, but we will not protect them if we do not catch and convict the perpetrators. That is absolutely vital. The two strands of this work cannot be disaggregated; they are both important, but victim protection is at the forefront of what we are doing. I know that some Members feel that the overseas domestic worker visa should not be linked to a single employer. The Government have taken their concerns as seriously as possible by holding an independent inquiry. There will be a report by the end of July, and changes to the visa can still be made under the immigration rules without the need for further primary legislation. However, if we simply accepted the Lords amendment now in its entirety, we would be ignoring the advice from law enforcement practitioners and the designate independent anti- slavery commissioner. I urge Members to support the motion. The amendments in lieu will encourage more overseas domestic workers who are victims to come forward, they will allow law enforcement to lead to the investigation and prosecution of more abusers, and they will help vulnerable victims to rebuild their lives.
2015-03-17b.685.1	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	Karen Bradley	I beg to move, That this House agrees with Lords amendment 1.
2015-03-17b.685.2	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	Eleanor Laing	With this it will be convenient to consider Lords amendments 2 to 71 and 73 to 95.
2015-03-17b.685.3	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	Karen Bradley	These are the amendments that the Government introduced in the other place to improve the Bill. They focus particularly on strengthening the provisions on support and protection for victims. They were broadly welcomed across the parties in the other place and they also deal with many issues raised in debates in this House. I shall not go through them in detail now but will, with the leave of the House, respond to specific points at the end of the debate. I hope that right hon. and hon. Members will feel able to welcome them.
2015-03-17b.685.4	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	Diana Johnson	I thank the Minister. I was a little taken aback by the brevity of her opening remarks, considering the number of amendments that have been proposed. I may not be as brief as she was, because there are several points I want to put on the record. It is important to stress again that the Labour party has always supported the introduction of this important Bill. We recognise that human trafficking is a heinous crime and that its complex nature demands specialist legislation, but it has been a little difficult at times fully to understand the Government’s approach. When the original Bill was first published, many charities, organisations and lawyers shared the view that the Government had failed to provide the level of support for victims that we all wanted to see. There were also some large gaps: for example, at the outset it contained nothing on supply chains. Progress has been made in Committee in this House and in the other place. I pay tribute to my noble Friends the right hon. Baroness Royall, Lord Rosser and Baroness Kennedy for their work in ensuring that we received this much improved Bill today. I also pay tribute to the work done in the Committee that considered the draft Bill. Tribute has already been paid to my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) for the work that he and all the members of that Committee did on a cross-party basis to make a set of recommendations that we have been able to consider, question and argue for as the Bill passed through the House. I want to comment on some of the progress that has been made through the Government amendments in the other place. The position of anti-slavery commissioner has been transformed; it originally seemed to me that they would be nothing more than a Home Office civil servant with a remit exclusively covering prosecutions and with no independent overview of their work programme. Even though that change has not gone as far as we hoped—we hoped for something more akin to the Children’s Commissioner—we are pleased that the commissioner will have control over their finances, will be able to appoint their own staff and promote good practice across the world and that public bodies will have a duty to co-operate with them. Most of all, I am pleased that the commissioner’s remit will include the support available to victims and survivors of trafficking and exploitation. There have been significant improvements in the formulation of the statutory defence for victims of slavery who commit crimes in the course of their enslavement. The original defence did not recognise the unique nature of child exploitation and the fact that a child cannot consent to their own enslavement. The Opposition therefore welcome the removal of the compulsion element of the statutory defence in relation to children, but we think that a problem remains not just in the conviction of perpetrators of slavery but in the prosecutions and charging decisions. We are disappointed that the Government have not suggested an amendment to require the Director of Public Prosecutions to issue specific guidance on charging in cases of human trafficking victims. Whichever party is in Government after 7 May will need to consider that again. Another big area on which there has been movement is that of child advocates. Although the new system introduced by the Government is not the system of child guardians required by the EU directive on child trafficking, which was called for by the Joint Committee on the draft Bill and the charity coalition involved in the Anti-Trafficking Monitoring Group, some improvements have been made. I pay tribute in particular to my right hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) , who championed child advocates forcefully in the Bill Committee. We now have an assurance that advocates will definitely be brought in and that they will be independent of other statutory bodies with responsibility for the child; that they will have access to the necessary and appropriate information; that they will be appointed as soon as is reasonably practicable where there are reasonable grounds to believe that a child may be a victim of human trafficking; and that they will have the power to appoint and instruct legal representatives where appropriate. I also welcome the practical moves in relation to the Gangmasters Licensing Authority and the fact that we will have a Government report looking at the GLA’s work and a possible extension of its role within 12 months. On another positive note, we are very pleased with the significant progress that has been made on the reporting requirements placed on large firms in relation to their supply chains. The Government could never claim to be genuinely committed to eradicating slavery in the UK if we did not address slavery in the supply chains of our large companies. It was absurd that the Government did not include supply chains in the original Bill. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty) , who has done so much to champion this issue over many years. I am pleased that his tireless efforts have paid dividends in changing the Bill. The Opposition were clear from the outset that we wanted a reporting requirement that was comprehensive, that allowed direct comparability between companies and that included an enforcement mechanism. Although we welcomed the moves originally announced by the Minister on Report, we still wanted them to go further. She will remember that we were particularly critical of the Government for repeating some of the mistakes that have hampered the transparency of supply chains legislation in California. It has not always been clear which companies that legislation applies to, and it has been hard for non-governmental organisations to find out which companies ought to be complying and whether they actually are complying. Moreover, when two reports were looked at side by side, they were often not directly comparable. That is why we made it clear that the reporting requirement has to contain clear instructions as to what a report has to have in it. A large firm may have 100,000 suppliers and it will be able to fill a report with good practice, but what we need firms to do is to create a fair evaluation that addresses the key issues, which means that we have to specify the key things to be addressed in the report. We welcome the guidance as to what a report should contain and we hope it will encourage best practice, but we still think that that should be compulsory guidance rather than just a steer. We would also have liked it to contain a requirement for companies to report on what work they are doing to support victims who are found in their supply chains. I recognise, however, that the Bill has come a long way and I thank the Minister for the way in which she has dealt with the changes to it over the past few months. Before I finish, I want to address two areas on which there has not been as much progress as the Opposition would have liked. First, on protection for victims, although I welcome Lords amendment 46 and the introduction of some civil legal aid for victims, and Lords amendment 61, which introduces enabling powers to put the national referral mechanism on a statutory footing, that does not represent the proper system of recognising and supporting victims which we need.. The Government’s report on the national referral mechanism identified numerous failings that need to be addressed. However, whatever improvements are made to internal processes, we still need a transparent and rigorous system that is open to challenge. That is why we need a statutory national referral mechanism. We hope that the Minister intends to use that enabling power as soon as possible. Finally, I want to turn to part 1 of the Bill and the offences of human trafficking and exploitation. I welcome Lords amendments 1 to 4. Indeed, I tabled a version of Lords amendment 3 on the first day of the Bill Committee in this place. Those Government amendments, however, are very minor and do not address the severe structural deficiencies in our legislative response to human trafficking. The human trafficking offences have developed in an ad hoc manner over the past decade. The Bill consolidates the existing offences, but it does not cover the gaps in current practice, which were clearly presented to the draft Bill Committee by the police and to the Public Bill Committee by two expert lawyers. All the evidence is backed up by some shocking statistics. In 2013, the police identified 2,744 human trafficking victims, including 602 children. They were involved in different forms of exploitation. However, despite the identification of 2,744 victims, there were just 104 prosecutions and 48 convictions. Most shockingly, the Government could not identify a single prosecution where the victim was a child. Despite that, the Bill contains no specific child offences and no specific offences of exploitation. That is a huge lacuna, yet throughout the passage of the Bill the Minister has been immune to arguments to amend it from charities and lawyers, and immune to evidence from the police and even to the terrible statistics I have just given. It is a great shame that the Bill has failed in that regard, but I am pleased to say that a Labour Government would introduce specific offences of child and adult exploitation if we found ourselves in government in the next Parliament. In conclusion, it has been a great pleasure to work for the best part of a year on this important Bill, which has been improved hugely during its passage through Parliament. I reiterate my thanks to Members on both sides of the House for their work. I also thank the many charities and voluntary sector bodies that have worked on the issues involved. These groups work with victims in very difficult circumstances and have done a huge amount to use their front-line experience to inform the work of this House and to improve the Bill.
2015-03-17b.688.0	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	David Burrowes	This is an important Bill, which the whole House can be proud of. Throughout its passage there has rightly been robust scrutiny by the Joint Committee and the Bill Committee, of which I was proud to be a member, and by both sides of the House, but I believe that it is fit for its purpose of increasing prosecutions and supporting victims. I welcome the Lords amendments, which in many respects reflect the work in the Bill Committee and in all parts of the House to try to ensure that we did the very best we could in the limited time available to make this a world-class Bill, as the Home Secretary sought. I thank her for her lead, and the Prime Minister, and in particular the Minister for her diligence and care in dealing with these matters. I want to draw particular attention to these because they reflect the debates we had in the Bill Committee. In many ways, we go through this process and all end up in the place we want to be. In particular, the Bill now makes it explicit that one of the personal circumstances that may make someone vulnerable to slavery is the fact that they are a child. Throughout the passage of the Bill, we have all wanted to make sure that child victims are central, that there are prosecutions when there are child victims, and that the Bill gives a proper tailored response. I therefore welcome this crucial amendment, which we have sought from the outset, and which I and others have campaigned for. I do not accept that it is necessary for a specific child exploitation offence, however. I think the Bill can deal with prosecutions in relation to child victims, and the explicit reference to children in clause 1 now is particularly welcome. I tabled an amendment and joined Members on both sides to ensure that exploitation measures had as wide an effect as possible, and that that was covered in clause 1. I drew attention in Committee, and others have done so since, to things such as begging or pick-pocketing and ensuring that such exploitation-type offences were covered by clause 1. It is important that such work and services now qualify as exploitation. The Government were previously concerned that the definition was going to be too wide, but in the Bill Committee we said from the outset that it was possible to use the definition set out in clause 3. Lo and behold, that is where we have got to, and the Lords and the Government have accepted that that is an appropriate addition. We all wanted to be as clear as possible on the issue of consent, to make sure that this Bill was in step with our international obligations and case law. Also, we all wanted to make sure there was a specific understanding in the Bill that a victim’s consent to any of the alleged conduct does not preclude a finding that they have been held in slavery or were required to perform forced labour. We wanted to make sure that the wording did not have the perverse impact of ensuring that a child victim did not achieve the prosecutions they deserved, and now it is clear that a victim’s consent should not preclude any findings of their being held in slavery or forced labour. Another area that has been mentioned is the independence of the anti-slavery commissioner. It is very welcome that the combined efforts of both Houses have led to a point where no one can be in any doubt about the independence of the commissioner, who has the word “independent” at the beginning of their title, as the Bill Committee was able to achieve. I pay tribute to those in the other place on both sides, and refer in particular—to be slightly partial—to Lord McColl of Dulwich, who played a key role alongside others in following up the hard work done by the Joint Committee and the Bill Committee. They all worked to ensure that there was the appropriate budget and staffing. Resources are necessary to make sure that this works and to make it clear—the Government amendments make this clear beyond doubt—not only that the child trafficking advocates are independent but that this is going to happen: yes, there is piloting, but this is going to happen. There is now a duty to ensure that these detailed regulations come to pass and that there is an appropriate sharing of information, and the public authorities must co-operate. All in all, this is a very welcome addition to a Bill that we can all be proud of. We can be proud of it because of the effect it will have on the ground, in making sure that there are prosecutions and that there is proper support for victims.
2015-03-17b.689.0	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-17b.689.1	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	Eleanor Laing	Order. Before I call the next speaker, it will be obvious to the House that we have limited time left. Three of the Members who have indicated that they wish to speak now have spoken at some length on the last group of amendments. If Members wish to hear what the Minister has to say in response to their questions, I hope they will have the courtesy to leave a few minutes for her to reply, in which case no one should speak for more than three minutes.
2015-03-17b.689.2	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	Anas Sarwar	I do not intend to speak for very long at all, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I just want to touch on a few aspects, particularly around the supply chain amendments and how they relate to our commitment as a country and as a Government to our international development obligations. It is right that we seek to increase opportunity right across the world, but we have to accept that many of the systems we adopt domestically perpetuate poverty and the cycle of deprivation in some of the poorest and most vulnerable places around the world. One example of that is supply chains. This debate comes between Fairtrade fortnight and the anniversary of the Rana plaza disaster, when 1,200 workers lost their lives putting together garments, many of which were going to be worn in Britain. That is why these amendments are so important, and I welcome many of the changes that have come from the Government, although I agree with the shadow Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) , that they could have gone a lot further. The fact that 80 billion garments a year are produced globally, that there are 168 million child workers and that 85 million of them are working in hazardous conditions and that over 4 million aged between four and 14 are working in India alone shows the scale of the challenge. If we are to be serious about our international obligations, we must make sure our domestic legislation helps to shape and fight for the right things across the world. We must ensure that everyone has access to a decent job, fair pay and the right to join a trade union. On that point, it is unacceptable in the midst of such a debate, in which I welcome many of the Government’s proposals, that we see the ideological scrapping of central budget support for the International Labour Organisation, which helps to promote workers’ rights around the globe. If we come into government on 7 May —as I hope we will—I am sure we will reverse that funding cut, and I hope a Government of any other colour would do so, too. I want to say a bit about the sustainability of putting not only voluntary but mandatory entitlements on companies. Companies must meet their full obligations and there should be some kind of certification mechanism for well-behaved companies to be recognised, but bad practice must be exposed and outlawed. That will give the public the same confidence that they have about cocoa, chocolate and wine through Fairtrade fortnight. We should have the same confidence about all those things we acquire from across the globe. I see that my three minutes have arrived, Madam Deputy Speaker. In closing, I welcome the Government amendments. They could have gone a lot further, but let us hope that this is the start of an opportunity to improve life chances of workers not just here, but across the globe.
2015-03-17b.690.0	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	Michael Connarty	I echo the positive and cautionary comments that my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) has made today. We have done much to progress this issue, but we still have a long way to go. I want to mark the fact that we did not take the advice of Lord Judge and Peter Carter and that we will have a cascade of serious offences, so that people will know exactly what they are being judged on and so that judges will know what we want them to do, rather than having to interpret the previous collection of crimes. That, for me, is the most important thing. I want to talk also about the Connarty-Mactaggart clause. We might even be able to call it the Connarty-Mactaggart-Bradley clause if the Minister were to attach herself to it. If I were to put that in alphabetical order, I would have to put the Minister’s name first, but I do not want to do that as the issue was initiated by my right hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) in her ten-minute rule Bill and by me in my private Member’s Bill. I thank the Minister for putting into amendment 73 the six areas of information that an organisation’s slavery and human trafficking statement must include and disclose. The amendment also states that the board of a company must approve such a statement and that it will have to be signed by a director. That provision came from debates in the Bill Committee and in the Joint Committee. Those provisions give strength to what we have been trying to do. Lords amendment 74 will ensure that statutory guidance may provide more information on slavery and human trafficking. We might have to change this provision in the future if we see malpractice, because there will be malpractice as some people try to avoid this provision. Lords amendment 83 deals with the definition of turnover. One of the issues that we had was the size of company that would be caught in this mandatory process, and I hope that we will find a way to include small and medium-sized enterprises, as California has done, because they want to be included. My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) talked about commending such organisations, but I still want to see the introduction of a kitemark for companies that comply with this law, so that people will know that they have been audited for human trafficking. I am sorry to tell the Minister that I must mention one omission from clause 51. Subsection (9) states: “The duties imposed on commercial organisations by this section are enforceable by the Secretary of State bringing civil proceedings in the High Court for an injunction or, in Scotland, for specific performance of a statutory duty under section 45 of the Court of Session Act 1988.” That power will have to be devolved at some point, because it is a matter that should be dealt with in the Scottish courts even though it is coming from a UK Bill. I would also plead for the public to be able to say something about this. They, too, should be able to hold companies and other organisations to account. I should like to thank the Minister. Although we have disputed some of the finer points and I have tried to push her in certain directions, she has been an absolute stalwart. We began by forcing the Government to sign up to the human trafficking directive when they seemed reluctant to do so, but we have moved to the point at which we now have a fully-fledged Bill. We might improve on it in future Parliaments, but it is one of which we can be proud today. I thank the Minister, the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) and all the other Members who worked so hard on the Bill in Committee.
2015-03-17b.691.0	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	Paul Blomfield	I want to speak briefly to Lords amendment 77. I support it, but I have some concerns about how the consultation relating to the Gangmasters Licensing Authority was described by Ministers in the other place, first in relation to the consideration of changes to enforcement and licensing activity and, secondly, in relation to intelligence sharing and interaction with other agencies. On the first, it is important to emphasise that the interest shown in the role of the GLA throughout the passage of the Bill has been due to its status as a model of best practice internationally. Its strength lies in fulfilling the very letter of the new International Labour Organisation protocol and the recommendation to the forced labour convention—which this Government voted for just last year and intend to ratify shortly—calling for improved labour inspections and enforcement of labour laws as key prevention measures. Will the Minister assure the House that consultation on changes to enforcement and licensing activity will give due consideration to the success of the GLA’s licensing and enforcement activity in its current form? I emphasise the words “in its current form”. General law enforcement is not a GLA responsibility and, should the GLA’s meagre resources be diverted into criminal investigations and crime control, as was suggested in the other place, its critical licensing and intelligence-gathering role would be compromised. Much of the GLA’s strength lies in its ability to build relationships of trust with workers during its detailed intelligence-gathering work. Critically, that intelligence is often anonymous and relies on workers trusting that the GLA is independent of the Government. Vulnerable workers have expressed considerable mistrust for the GLA where it is considered to be too close to border security or the police. So will the Minister assure the House that the consideration of a role for the GLA in intelligence sharing will not pose challenges to its intelligence-gathering function? At the recent GLA national conference in Derby, the Minister said that the review would ensure that the GLA would “target the ‘right’ businesses, the ones who break the law, the ones who exploit their workers and the ones who subject them to servitude and slavery.” I think everyone would agree that it is important to target the right businesses, but we want to ensure that the Home Office does not allow its emphasis on prosecution to obscure the complexity of the fight against modern slavery. We do not need another National Crime Agency or a new UK Border Agency; we need the Gangmasters Licensing Authority’s good practice in issuing and monitoring licences and in gathering intelligence extended to other sectors. Throughout the debate on the Bill, businesses have made the point that many of them want to do the right thing, but that they cannot trade ethically and effectively police their supply chains here in the UK without adequate labour inspection and an enforcement framework. Recruitment agencies try to operate within the law but find their margins impossible and so undermine labour rights to save money. Gangmasters, whose business model depends on paying less than the national minimum wage, are overworking people and taking cuts for substandard accommodation. So we need a labour licensing, inspection and enforcement regime that offers assurances to good business, reduces the temptation to shave away at the corners of workers’ rights and absolutely outlaws the descent into forced labour.
2015-03-17b.692.0	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	Fiona Mactaggart	The Minister will not be surprised to find that I want to ask for more—I feel like Oliver sometimes—but let me start by saying thank you to all the members of the pre-legislative scrutiny Committee, to the members of the Public Bill Committee and to the Minister, because we have made real progress—I say that to Members from all parties. The Minister has often said that this is the first UK Bill to deal with modern slavery, but it will not be the last. So one thing I should like her to commit to—she has time in this debate to do so—is a review of the effect of this legislation within three years of its commencement. We are passing so much here that we need test whether some of our anxiety about whether it will work, and some of her confidence that it will work, is well founded. Such a review would be a good foundation for looking to the future. The second thing I want to ask for relates to Lords amendment 61, where the power to make regulations about victim care is explicit, but it is only a power to make regulations. There is a risk that for many months after this Bill victims of modern slavery in England will be less well cared for than victims of modern slavery in the other parts of the UK, which have passed legislation including powerful mechanisms for victim care. So will the Minister commit now—I believe that she is willing to do so, but it would be helpful if the commitment was made on the Floor of the House—to take the earliest opportunity to introduce regulations to ensure high standards of victims’ care following the review of the NRM. My final point is about the Connarty-Mactaggart-Bradley issue, which is about supply chains. I really welcome the fact that supply chains are provided for in the Bill. The Minister will have noticed the debate in the House of Lords, which told us to learn from California about having no central spot where supply chain reporting happens. I have been struck by the keenness of companies on having a central spot, because good-quality companies will benefit from this legislation on supply chains. They are keen to ensure that there is proper comparability between the reports of different companies. The Minister could now say—it does not require legislation—that she will work with the commercial and voluntary sectors to try to establish a single repository for those reports, because if we do that, customers will be able to hold companies to account.
2015-03-17b.693.0	JUSTICE	Clause 1 — Slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour	Karen Bradley	With the leave of the House, I should like to respond briefly to the comments that have been made. May I start by saying that I am pleased the Bill has been so well received by Members from all parts of the House? I am grateful to all the right hon. and hon. Members, both here and in the Lords, who have worked so tirelessly in assisting the Government to make the Bill as effective as possible. We have had some animated debates and differences of opinion, but I think all right hon. and hon. Members will agree that the Bill today looks very different from the one first presented as a draft Bill in December 2013. I wish to pay specific tribute to my colleagues Lord Bates and Baroness Garden, who steered the Bill through the 95 amendments we are discussing today, and to the shadow Ministers, both here and in the other place, who worked constructively with the Government to make sure we get the right result: by the end of prorogation, a Modern Slavery Act—something of which we can all be incredibly proud. Some specific points were raised. I welcome them, but do not have much time to cover them. Briefly, many of them, particularly those raised by the shadow Minister and others, were debated in the other place, and there is much on the record about our position. Let me just say that we will continue to consider those points. From my point of view, the Bill is a means to an end; it is not the end itself. It will enable us to identify more victims, using the anti-slavery commissioner and the victim support that we have outlined, but that cannot be the end. We have a long way to go, working on the strategy and working with partners, to ensure that the measures are implemented on the ground. I pay tribute to all members of the pre-legislative scrutiny Committee and the Bill Committee, including my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) , whose work on trafficking and child trafficking advocates has put us in the position that we are now in, and he should take great credit for that. I also pay tribute to the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty) and the right hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) for their work on supply chains, which they did for many, many years before the Bill was introduced. They know that we wanted to do this in the right way; we wanted to have the right evidence to get the Bill right. I can tell the right hon. Lady that we are consulting on the statutory guidance, including on how best to make statements available online. We are working with the voluntary sector and businesses specifically on a website or a comparison tool for statements. This Bill is important and historic, and I am incredibly proud of it. For the victims of those most heinous and horrendous crimes, we have done something very good today in this place. Lords amendment 1 agreed to . Three hours having elapsed since the commencement of proceedings on consideration of Lords amendments, the proceedings were interrupted (Programme Order, this day). The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded at that time ( Standing Order No. 83F ) Lords amendments 2 to 71 and 73 to 95 agreed to , with Commons financial privileges waived in respect of Lords amendments 20, 45 and 61 .
2015-03-17b.695.1	JUSTICE	Committee on Standards (Reports)	Kevin Barron	I beg to move, That: (1) this House takes note of the Sixth Report from the Committee on Standards, on the Standards System in the House of Commons, (HC 383); (2) with effect from the beginning of the next Parliament, the following changes to Standing Orders be made: Standing Order No. 122B (Election of Chairs of Select Committees) Line 10, leave out ‘and’. Line 11, at end insert ‘; and (f) The Committee on Standards.’. Line 70, after ‘Accounts’, insert ‘or the Committee on Standards’. Standing Order No. 149 (Committee on Standards) Line 20, leave out ‘ten’ and insert ‘seven’. Line 20, leave out from ‘and’ to ‘lay’ in line 21 and insert ‘seven’. Line 26, leave out from ‘sub-committees’ to ‘and’ in line 27. Line 34, leave out ‘five members who are Members of this House’ and insert ‘three members who are Members of this House and three lay members’. Line 36, leave out from ‘three’ to end of line 37 and insert ‘of whom at least one shall be a Member of this House and at least one a lay member’. Line 38, leave out paragraph 7. Standing Order No. 149A: (Lay Members of Committee on Standards: appointment, etc.) Line 5, at end insert– ‘() The period of appointment of a lay member shall be specified in the resolution of the House for appointment and shall not exceed six years. The appointment of a lay member is not terminated by any dissolution of Parliament. () No person who has once been a lay member may be appointed for a further term’. Line 6, leave out ‘first’. Line 23, leave out paragraphs 6, 7 and 8; and (3) notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order No. 149A , as amended, lay members who were members of the Committee on Standards in the 2010 Parliament shall cease to be lay members at the end of the current Parliament but be eligible for re-appointment in the next Parliament, and paragraph (3) of that Standing Order shall not apply to any such re-appointment.
2015-03-17b.695.2	JUSTICE	Committee on Standards (Reports)	Lindsay Hoyle	With this we shall consider the following motion, on the code of conduct and guide to the rules relating to the conduct of Members: That: (1) this House approves the Third Report from the Committee on Standards, on The Code of Conduct, (HC 772); (2) with effect from the beginning of the next Parliament, this House approves the revised Guide to the Rules relating to the Conduct of Members annexed to that Report; (3) the Code of Conduct for Members of Parliament be amended as follows: (a) leave out Paragraph 2 and insert ‘The Code applies to Members in all aspects of their public life. It does not seek to regulate what Members do in their purely private and personal lives’. (b) leave out paragraph 17; and (4) previous Resolutions of this House in relation to the conduct of Members shall be read and given effect in a way which is compatible with the Code of Conduct and the Guide to the Rules relating to the Conduct of Members.
2015-03-17b.696.0	JUSTICE	Committee on Standards (Reports)	Kevin Barron	I am delighted to open this debate, which represents the fulfilment of a great deal of unsung and often thankless work by the Standards Committee. I should like first to talk about the proposals for changes to the composition of the Committee. Those were recommended in the sixth report of this session, which the House is asked to note. The report was put before the Committee by the Standards Sub-Committee, which was set up in response to the reflections of the lay members of the Committee on their first year in office. The lay members have prepared a further note covering their experiences after two years in office. That will be published shortly, and I have no doubt that the new Committee will find it as useful, if as challenging, as we found the first one. The Sub-Committee was chaired by Peter Jinman, one of the lay members, and the House, like the rest of the Committee, has much reason to be grateful to him and his colleagues. Although the report was prepared by the Sub-Committee, it was adopted without demur by the main Committee. Contrary to any fears that may have been expressed before the lay members were appointed, this agreement between the lay and elected Members of the Committee has been typical. The lay members were appointed to the Committee in 2012 when the Standards Committee was separated from the former Standards and Privileges Committee. Their introduction was intended to strengthen the independent element in the standards system. The first independent element, of course, was the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. As the report makes clear, her role remains crucial and undiminished and her independence in her field is unaffected. In the event, the lay members have changed the Committee in ways that were not all expected. By bringing their outside experience to bear, they have encouraged the Committee to rethink its working methods. They have given it the self-confidence to suggest moving away from being a largely reactive body that comes into play when it receives a memorandum from the commissioner and towards being one that seeks to play a clearer and more positive role in standards setting. The position of the lay members is not always understood. The fact that they cannot vote or propose reports or amendments is sometimes used to suggest that they are in some way ciphers or stooges. I want to say to the House, and to the people listening outside, that that is absolutely not the case. Not only do the lay members play a full part in debate, but any one of them has, by Standing Order of the House, the right to append an opinion to any report of the Committee. Moreover, given that it is essential that one lay member be present for the Committee to be quorate, they have an effective veto over the transaction of business. Fortunately, neither opinion nor withdrawal has ever been necessary; the lay members have gained their points by discussion and persuasion, and the Committee’s work has been greatly strengthened as a result. We have recommended that the number and proportion of lay members of the Committee be increased. That brings the House’s system closer into line with the regulatory systems for professions such as the law and medicine, and it is way ahead of lay input in the Parliaments of Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA, none of whose equivalent Committees has any lay members whatsoever. At present the Committee consists of 13 members— 10 MPs and three lay members. We propose that the overall size of the Committee be increased from 13 to 14, of whom seven should be lay members. That will also give us an opportunity to have more diversity in the Committee. Instead of the current quorum of five elected members and one lay member, we propose that the new Committee’s quorum should be three elected and three lay members. If agreed to, our proposal will also permit the term of office of lay members to run over a Parliament, making succession planning smoother. All those changes should strengthen the position of the lay members even further as well as allowing the Committee to experiment with different ways of working. We also propose that the next Chair of the Committee should be elected, as the Chairs of most other Committees of the House now are. In principle, I think that is an excellent idea. On the other hand, I must warn any prospective candidates that, if elected, they will be in for an interesting and sometimes rocky road. None the less, it is a job worth doing, and one that is crucial to maintaining and improving the reputation of the House. The report looked in some detail at the current system. It made a few suggestions for changes in practice by the commissioner and the Committee but found that the system was generally proportionate, the process fair and the sanctions appropriate. Some Members might think that our report spends too long setting out the existing system. We did that because we found that it was often misunderstood, and not only outside the House, but within it, and we wanted to help remedy that. Understanding of the system is not helped by the media coverage of parliamentary standards issues, some of which verges on the biased. I will give one example. The House has put restrictions on the remit of the commissioner. The Committee accepts that those should be reviewed from time to time, but none the less for the time being they are in place and the commissioner must abide by them. The sixth report pointed out that many complaints to the Commissioner for Standards fall outside her remit. This applies particularly to what might be called level of service complaints, when a constituent feels that a Member did not help them as the constituent asked. We suggested that time, resources and frustration might be saved, not least for complainants, if constituents could be helped to understand better what MPs can and cannot do, what they may reasonably be expected to do, and when some other person or institution should be approached first. Following publication of the report, one newspaper carried the headline, “MPs no longer want to help constituents with their bin collections and street repairs”. We do live in an elected democracy. Any such suggestion is ridiculous. Insult was added to injury in this case because the Committee had held a press briefing at the time of the report’s publication and Committee staff had already explained the recommendation to the journalist concerned. The misrepresentation was deeply disappointing, if not predicted from some quarters. Misunderstanding of the system is not restricted to the media. There is widespread ignorance even in the House on occasion about what our system is. The Committee believes that the House authorities should do more to promote understanding of parliamentary standards—for instance, by making the website clearer. The Committee accepts that it, too, could do more to help the media and the public to understand its reports, in particular the process by which they are arrived at. We have made some suggestions for our successor Committee and to the commissioner to consider how this might be done, though any Committee will be careful to avoid getting drawn into argument about specific cases. We are glad that plans have been made to make the induction of new MPs more effective. The House is committed to reviewing the code of conduct and guide to the rules once in every Parliament. I now come to the proposed changes referred to in the first motion before us. These have been a long time coming, as they were first proposed in the Committee’s third report in the 2012-13 Session. Indeed, it was mainly the delay in bringing them to the House that led the Committee to recommend that its reports should be debated within two months of publication. Still, better late than never, and I am pleased that any difficulties seem to have been resolved and that the Government are now able to bring changes forward. This means that the revised code and guide will be in force at the beginning of the new Parliament. This will be crucial in assisting people who get over the wire, both those who are Members of the House now and new Members coming into the House. It will be enormously helpful if the proposed changes are agreed to. The proposed change to the code of conduct reverts to the position as it was before 2013, making it clear that the code does not seek to regulate what Members do in their purely personal and private lives. We understand that this change meets the approval of Members. The proposed changes to the rules make the rules on registration simpler, clearer and more consistent, tighten the rules on lobbying and make it clear that previous resolutions of the House are to be read in a way that is compatible with the code and guide currently in force. In this way they allow the House to respond to the recommendations of the Group of States against Corruption, otherwise known as GRECO, a Council of Europe body of which the UK is a member. Like the lay members, the GRECO report holds a mirror up to the House, and we should consider carefully the recommendations it contains. The recommendations and the Committee’s response to them are printed in our third report, to assist the House. As the sixth report makes clear, the maintenance of high parliamentary standards is a matter for each and every one of us, whatever parliamentary position we may hold. There are many different sorts of leadership in the House. Standards are not a matter for the Committee on Standards alone: it is important that political leaders understand the system, and do not inadvertently undermine it by appearing ignorant of the rules. These are the House’s own rules, agreed in debates like this, and we should all respect them.
2015-03-17b.698.0	JUSTICE	Committee on Standards (Reports)	William Hague	It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Rother Valley (Kevin Barron) and to pay tribute to his work and that of his Committee. I believe that both the motions before us, if agreed, will serve to increase confidence, inside and outside the House, in the regulatory system that we work under. Let me deal first with the motion relating to the standards system in the House. I pay tribute not only to the Committee but to the sub-Committee, which did a lot of work on this. I particularly commend its lay members, who led the review, for the production of a thoughtful and balanced report. The report proves the value of including an outside perspective at the heart of our self-regulatory system. That, in itself, makes the case for broadening that outside perspective. These matters—the design and application of the standards system—are, of course, for the House collectively. The Government are fully supportive of the efforts of the Standards Committee and others to secure a system that is transparent, clear and effective. I believe that the motion is consistent with this objective. The Government support the maintenance of an independent parliamentary commissioner for standards with the discretion to accept or reject a complaint for investigation, as she sees fit. It is right that a complete separation be maintained between the investigation of a complaint by the commissioner and the Committee’s role in considering her report and recommending any sanctions to the House. I am pleased that the Committee did not recommend a new adversarial procedure with lengthy and legalistic procedures. That would not have served the interests of the House or its Members, or improved its reputation in the eyes of the public. The Committee’s most striking recommendation, as the right hon. Gentleman discussed, is the increase in the number of lay members from three to seven—the same as the number of MPs on the Committee. He told us how much of an asset it has been to have the services of the three lay members. Quite apart from the value they bring to the Committee from their differing backgrounds and experiences, their presence provides an effective answer to those who criticise the standards system on the grounds that it is Members judging each other. The achievement of a balance of external and internal members of the Committee will serve to provide it with a wider range of views and greater authority in this House, and, I hope, create greater confidence in the system outside this place. It was notable that the lay members did not see the need to have a vote to be an effective presence on the Committee. The report explains that the “existing position of the lay members is strong, contrary to some external portrayal.” We have to be guided by the Committee on this point. It is difficult to imagine that it will want to publish reports with which its lay members disagree. However, the ability of lay members to record a contrary view is an important part of the present system that will be enhanced in the new one. Making lay members full members of the Committee would have introduced an element of legal uncertainty into its proceedings, as has been set out by the Procedure Committee and the Joint Committee on Parliamentary Privilege. The one recommendation directly for the Government relates to the scheduling of reports for debate. The Committee recommends that debates should take place within two months of the publication of reports. The Government have been very responsive in scheduling debates on the Committee’s reports on the conduct of individual Members. The conclusions of reports of this nature have always been brought before the House within a matter of days. I believe that any Government in the next Parliament will want to continue to bring forward substantive reports on the conduct of Members that require a decision of the House at the earliest available opportunity. I would certainly recommend that to my successor. I am pleased that the Committee plans to take on a wider role in the promotion of ethical conduct of Members of Parliament, drawing on best professional practice and the experiences of other legislatures. The new lay members of the Committee, when appointed, will give this role added resonance. The House can look forward to the Committee’s role developing further in the new Parliament. I turn briefly to the second motion, on the code of conduct for Members and the guide to the rules. I am very pleased to be able to bring this issue before the House before Dissolution. It is important that Members elected to the new Parliament be subject to a clear code of conduct that they can read as soon as they are elected, and that they have the benefit of a guide to the rules that is fully up to date. I am particularly pleased that by updating and improving the guide to the rules, we can implement the outstanding recommendations of the Council of Europe Group of States against Corruption in so far as they relate to the House of Commons. The successful passage of the Government’s Recall of MPs Bill also meets its recommendations for disciplinary sanctions that are proportionate and dissuasive.
2015-03-17b.700.0	JUSTICE	Committee on Standards (Reports)	Thomas Docherty	On the code of conduct, the Leader of the House will be aware of the controversy in recent days about whether a Minister adequately explained having a second job. Does he feel that the Government now need to revisit the ministerial code of conduct so that Ministers, such as the Minister without Portfolio, have clearer guidance on what they should or should not declare?
2015-03-17b.700.1	JUSTICE	Committee on Standards (Reports)	William Hague	My immediate answer is no. Those rules are clear. The Minister concerned has said that he spoke in error, and I do not think there has been any suggestion that he broke the rules. I believe that the updating of the guide to the rules is uncontroversial, and it should be supported by the House. The wording of the code of conduct has proved quite a difficult nut to crack during this Parliament. The debate in March 2012 revealed disquiet in some quarters of the House—let me put it that way—about how the code could be interpreted. That resulted in an amendment that, in the Committee’s view, led to a disconnect between the powers of the commissioner to investigate certain complaints and the provisions of the code. As Leader of the House, I have been conscious of the need to secure a high degree of consensus on the code’s wording and interpretation before putting it before the House for a decision. That has taken a little more time than we all wished, but I hope and believe that we have got there in the end. The Members who have taken the time to do that have shown a good deal of forbearance, but that was the right approach. I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Rother Valley for his perseverance in chairing his Committee on this matter, and to colleagues from across the House for their co-operation. That is why there has been a delay in holding this debate, but we have been able to have it before the end of the Parliament. I hope and believe that this debate will illustrate consensus on the wording. The new code proposed by the Standards Committee strikes the right balance between respect for the private life of Members and our obligation to uphold the code in all aspects of our public lives. I hope that the code will command the confidence of the public. On that basis, I am very happy to support the motions.
2015-03-17b.701.0	JUSTICE	Committee on Standards (Reports)	Angela Eagle	I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley (Kevin Barron) and his fellow members of the Standards Committee, including the lay members, on the two reports the House is considering today. I thank them for those reports, which each represent an important step forward and provide welcome clarity on the standards system and the guide to the rules. I concur with the Leader of the House that it is important to agree the changes in advance of the new Parliament, in which the new Members will need clarity. We are all content that we have just managed to get in under the wire in doing so. The situation is complex: we have many structures of rules that Members are expected to follow, and they have become more complex and divergent over time. It was therefore important for my right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley to be able to look at how to simplify some of the structures. We have the Electoral Commission and the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, both of which are independent, but there are also—quite rightly—the rules of the House of Commons, which the Standards Committee has looked at. The first motion is on the report from the lay members of the Standards Committee. It suggests some sensible changes to improve public trust in the standards system. As I said in my evidence to the Committee’s inquiry, we need a system that is predictable, simple and transparent. It is helpful if the system is intelligible to members of the public as well as to colleagues, many of whom will have seen the rules change multiple times over their years in the House. In my experience, Members tend to remember the rules as they were when they first came into the House and do not always manage to follow the myriad changes that occur as their time in the House lengthens. Many people have been caught out inadvertently by the evolution of the rules, which they have not noticed, because Members tend to respond to the rules that were in place when they first came into this place. In my evidence, I said that we needed to remove the Government’s majority on the Standards Committee. I note that that is not proposed in the motion, but I hope that we can return to it. It is vital not only that the Committee act fairly—that goes without saying—but that it be seen to act fairly. We must avoid any perception among the public or others that Government Whips can affect the outcome of an inquiry. I welcome the Committee’s proposal to increase the number of lay members so that there is an equal number of MPs and lay members on the Committee. I also welcome the decision to make it clear in future reports whether the lay members agree with the Members of Parliament who serve on the Committee. The use of lay members on House Committees is a relatively new innovation. In my experience of serving on Committees that include lay members—I have not served on the Standards Committee, but I have served on the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority—the innovation has worked well to date and has helped the House immeasurably. The changes in the motion will ensure that our standards system is in line with the regulatory systems of many other professional bodies, while respecting the House’s unique position. We welcome the Committee’s recognition that, “The electorate have the right to choose their representative” and that “any standards system must not constrain that right” in a democracy. That is an important part of the summary of the report. As the Leader of the House pointed out, we now have recall, which might also impact on this area in some circumstances. The report makes the welcome suggestion of a clear description of the role of an MP in increasing public understanding of the work we do. The Committee even made an heroic attempt to describe the role on page 24 of the report. It is an interesting attempt, and my right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley and his Committee were extremely brave to set it out. We will see what kind of dialogue ensues in subsequent Parliaments as a result of their writing down that description. Turning to the second motion, on the code of conduct and the guide to the rules, the new guide recommends simplifying the process of registering interests, tightening the rules around lobbying, and clarifying the relationship between the code, the guide and resolutions of the House. All of those recommendations have to be welcome. As the Committee’s report notes, the guide to the rules was first published in 1996. Over time, as I hinted earlier, it has seen many piecemeal additions and revisions—or evolution, if you like, Mr Deputy Speaker. The new guide is intended not only to be a comprehensive revision of the rules, which is certainly long overdue, but to ensure that we meet our obligations as a member of the group of states against corruption, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley said. As the Committee notes, if we do not agree to the new guide, Members who are elected in May will be bound by rules that are “not always clear”, that are “out of date” and that do “not respond to the recommendations of a Treaty organisation of which the United Kingdom is a member.” It is clearly welcome that we are able to have this debate today. I hope we will pass the motions on the Order Paper to bring ourselves into line with the international treaties we have signed. The first thing these changes will do is to reform how Members’ interests are registered. The proposed guide harmonises the rules on registration and reduces the number of registration categories, with just one, rather than the current three, for outside employment. The report also recommends a lower threshold for the registration of interests. Those are welcome and sensible simplifications. Labour Members want to go much further and have a system in which registering a paid directorship or consultancy is no longer possible, in which second jobs are far more regulated than is currently the case. The report also suggests changes to the rules on lobbying—an area that clearly needs change following the scandals of this Parliament. The proposed changes to the guide go some way towards tightening the rules, but the system of regulation the Government have put in place is fundamentally inadequate. Despite the Prime Minister promising before the last election that he would shine the “light of transparency” on lobbying, the register the Government are set to introduce would cover just 1% of ministerial meetings organised by lobbyists, and would not have caught any of the lobbying scandals that have hit this Government. The lobbying Act prevents charities and civil society from campaigning—rules that are already having a chilling effect on debate in the run-up to the general election. If Labour wins the election we will introduce tough new limits on lobbying and an effective register of all professional lobbyists, backed up by a code of conduct and enforced with sanctions. We will also review whether lobbyists should be allowed to provide the secretariats for all-party parliamentary groups, and continue to support the ban on parliamentary passes for any APPG staff. The report also recommends updating the basis of the rules. As the former Clerk of the House, Lord Lisvane, made clear in his evidence to the Committee, “there is a certain amount of doubt about what actually constitutes the ‘rules’ of the House”. As well as the code and the guide, a number of other resolutions of the House also provide guidance on MPs’ conduct. As the report says, “defining the rules of the House through a series of Resolutions of varying antiquity, which need to be regularly amended, is unsatisfactory”. We therefore welcome today’s motion, which clarifies that all previous resolutions on Members’ conduct should be read in a way that is compatible with the guide and the code. We also welcome the sensible proposal to revert to the 2009 wording on Members’ private lives, which I hope will assuage concerns across the House that were raised when this matter was last debated in 2012. I welcome both reports as a positive step in the right direction, while believing that we can, and should, go further. On second jobs, proper regulation of lobbyists, and the Government’s majority on the Standards Committee, I look forward to a Labour Government working across the House for further reform in just a few weeks’ time.
2015-03-17b.703.0	JUSTICE	Committee on Standards (Reports)	Geoffrey Cox	It has been my privilege to serve on the Committee on Standards under the chairmanship of the right hon. Member for Rother Valley (Kevin Barron) throughout this Parliament, and I put on record my gratitude to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, the registrar and the staff of those offices for the extraordinary diligence with which they have pursued their functions and roles. It has been an enormous pleasure to collaborate and work with them. It is extremely important to remember the division of functions between the commissioner and the Committee. The commissioner is the rapporteur to the Committee. She will investigate and establish the facts and make recommendations. Ultimately, however, it is for the Committee to decide what the response and reaction to her report should be. I remember very few occasions when the Committee has ventured to disagree, and even then it has done so with considerable trepidation and diffidence, and only in cases where the commissioner herself evinced a degree of uncertainty as to the correct conclusion. That is exactly the dialogue that should exist between commissioner and committee—a dialogue of mutual respect and collaboration, but of independence. Like the Chair of the Committee, I am not certain that the relationship between the two is always fully understood. I hope that it will be in future, and that the motions before the House will assist in the clarification of the roles and true function of the Committee. The involvement of lay members was an innovation that some greeted with scepticism, but I have to say that having worked with them it is important to put on record the gratitude of all the elected members of the Committee for the way in which they approached their roles. It has been uniformly constructive, so much so that one of them was an extremely good chairman of the Sub-Committee responsible for one of the reports. It is a good report, and their involvement has been thoroughly constructive and helpful. I therefore support the recommendation for an increase in the number of lay members, with some reservations. I am extremely pleased that no vote has been accorded to the lay members. There is no doubt, as my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House said, that the inclusion of unelected members on a House Committee would present considerable constitutional and legal complexities. It may well make the Committee susceptible to judicial review, with all the panoply of judicial intervention that that would mean, and I do not think that anybody in the House would really have wanted that. What I think we do need is a situation where the lay members’ influence is telling and, as it has been sometimes, decisive. That can be better done by the moral influence they exert and the constant sanction that exists—that they may append a minority report. That is, in many ways, a more compelling, more persuasive and more telling influence on Members’ thinking than any vote would be. I commend the motions to the House. I heard the hon. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) on the Opposition Front Bench express a concern that there may be a perception that the Whips have some mischievous and nefarious impact on the deliberations of the Committee. I can say two things to that. In four and a half years, I have never had a Whip try to influence me. I do not know whether that is just something to do with me or something to do with the fact that the Whips demonstrate commendable and appropriate restraint. However, I think that members of the Committee with whom I have served over this Parliament would reject with disdain any attempt by a Whip to influence the impartial and anxious consideration, which I have witnessed time and again, accorded by members of the Committee to very difficult individual and sometimes complicated circumstances in which a judgment is never right or wrong, never black or white, but can admit of disagreement. If a Committee comprising a number of elected Members, with all their shared experience of the House, together with the one who is accused and lay members, can reach a consensus as we uniformly do, generally, I would submit, it is more likely than not that the right conclusion is reached. That is why I say to the hon. Lady that in many ways to bandy about the idea—I am not criticising her for a moment; I do understand the perception she speaks of—or even to suggest that Whips may have some influence or role on the Standards Committee is not helpful. It simply would not be tolerated by members of that Committee, in my experience. It would be, as I have said, rejected with disdain. It has been an enormous privilege to serve on the Committee. It has caused a great deal of soul searching in many of the cases that have come before us. Some have been controversial and some have been less so, but throughout we have been assisted by the extraordinary skill, sophistication and professionalism of the officers who support us. I, for one, am deeply grateful to them, to the Chairman of the Committee and to all other members of the Committee with whom I have had the honour to serve.
2015-03-17b.705.0	JUSTICE	Committee on Standards (Reports)	Nick Harvey	I, too, have served on the Committee on Standards in the second half of this Parliament. I found the Committee very different from its predecessor, on which I had served in the previous Parliament. In no small part, the difference was the arrival in our midst of the three lay members. I join the tributes to them that other Members have expressed. They have brought a wealth of relevant experience, offered informed opinion and intelligent insight, and encouraged and persuaded us to better practice and better judgments. As has been explained, the report was produced in no small part under the influence of the lay members. They have encouraged us to get on the front foot, to be more proactive and to look ahead. The House was reeling after the expenses scandal at the end of the last Parliament and was still in a state of shock. The lay members have encouraged us to move on, to look ahead and to show more leadership in the area of standards, as the Leader of the House said. I hope that everyone in the House will respond to the challenge and that in future we shall approach these issues as other professions and careers do and help each other in a spirit of continuous professional development. There was a great deal of controversy, confusion and misreporting after one of the more high profile cases dealt with in this Parliament by the Committee on Standards, but rather than lamenting the misinformation and misreporting, the lay members encouraged us to learn from the experience, to get out and better explain what we do, to be more transparent and open, and to see ourselves as having a mission to explain, so that people inside and outside the House could have a better understanding of what we were trying to achieve and of the distinction between roles to which my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Torridge and West Devon (Mr Cox) referred. In the case I am thinking of, there was great confusion about where the role of an independent commissioner ended and the role of the Committee began. I believe that the proposals to move to an equal number of elected and lay members will enhance the Committee’s work further, create more opportunity for more external experience and challenge, move us into line with other professions, and basically look better in the eyes of the outside world. I do not believe that it will undermine the work done. It would have been a complete red herring to divert ourselves down the rabbit hole of whether the lay members should have a vote. They do not need one for the reasons given. In any case, the Committee seldom has occasion to vote: its deliberations always aim at consensus. As has been observed, every lay member—in future, all seven—can append an opinion if they so desire, and the Committee would have to think long and hard before arriving at a consensus to which the lay members had raised any objection. It would get itself into very hot water were it to do so. The report points a sensible way forward, and I commend it to the House. The other motion deals with the code of conduct and guide to the rules. The interrelationship between the two is tricky, and the impact of what we are doing this afternoon is potentially slightly counter-intuitive in terms of what a cursory examination of the text before us might conclude. The House got itself into a mess last time it considered this issue, in 2012, and the proposition before the House today is a pragmatic way of trying to resolve that mess. It is right to do this and to do it now, and to ensure that after the election those coming into the House have the clarity they need about what is and is not acceptable. We are not opening up the spectre of investigations into Members’ purely private lives, but it is important that anything a Member does in their capacity as a Member of Parliament should be subject to proper scrutiny and done to the highest standards. We have two sensible propositions before the House this afternoon, and I hope very much that they will both find favour. Question put and agreed to.
2015-03-17b.707.1	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	John McDonnell	I beg to move, That this House calls on the US Government to release Shaker Aamer from his imprisonment in Guantánamo Bay and to allow him to return to his family in the UK. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for allocating time for this critical debate at an important time in the campaign to secure the release of Shaker Aamer. By way of introduction, I pay tribute to all those who have campaigned so hard over many years to bring Shaker Aamer’s case to our attention. I pay tribute to the “Save Shaker Aamer” campaign, and all those campaigners who have stood in Parliament square month after month protesting in their orange boiler suits with their placards until someone began to listen to them. I pay tribute to the “We Stand with Shaker” campaign, to Shaker’s family who have joined us today and to the organisations Reprieve and Amnesty International. I pay tribute, too, to the full range of newspapers that have supported this campaign. They range right across the political spectrum of journalism from the Daily Mail and The Daily Telegraph to The Guardian and the Morning Star. In addition, I pay tribute to all the celebrities, actors, artists and sportspeople who have got behind this campaign. Finally, I thank the many hon. Members from all sides of the House who joined the all-party parliamentary group, which now has more than 40 members drawn from all political parties. Why have so many people campaigned so long and so steadfastly on this case? I think that it is because the Shaker Aamer case is one of the worst examples of a miscarriage of justice during the past three decades at least. Shaker’s treatment offends against all the principles of a civilised society—justice, freedom, human rights and the rights of a family to be together. We have had several debates here and numerous questions about his case have been raised. The last occasion on which I raised the issue was at the Christmas recess debate. Let me put on record the history of Shaker’s case, so that people are fully aware of the background to what happened to him and the various issues that we need to address now. Shaker was born in Saudi Arabia in 1968. He left home and lived in America for a while, eventually making his home in the United Kingdom. He married a British citizen and was granted leave to remain in this country in 1996. He worked as a translator for a firm of solicitors. In 2001, he went with his family to Afghanistan, working as a charity volunteer building a girls’ school and digging water wells. After 9/11 when Afghanistan was bombed by the US, he sent his family to safety in Pakistan. Before he could join them, however, the Afghan villagers gave him up to the Northern Alliance. At that time, the US was offering a ransom to individuals, and unfortunately the Northern Alliance and others rounded people up without any evidence of their involvement in terrorist activity. What then happened was that Shaker was taken and held in the notorious Bagram jail.
2015-03-17b.708.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	David Davis	I am not necessarily sympathetic if there is any question of guilt on the part of the people picked up. However, what strikes me about this case is that the US was offering $5,000 ransoms or rewards, and it is too easy to forget that in Afghanistan at that time, $5,000 would have been equivalent to hundreds of thousands of pounds in this country. When it was a poor village that handed him over, I will not say that I do not blame them—I do—but it could be seen as understandable. What that does, however, is to call into extreme question any suggestion of Shaker Aamer’s guilt.
2015-03-17b.708.1	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	John McDonnell	It looks as though the ransom or reward turned the rounding up of individuals, particularly by the Northern Alliance and others, almost into a trade during that period, and it is easy to see how injustices have resulted. According to Reprieve, which has been analysing what has been happening in Bagram and elsewhere, while detained in Bagram, Shaker was “forced to stay awake for nine days straight and denied food. Doused in freezing water, he was made to stand in the Afghan winter on concrete for 16 hours. His feet were beaten and he was bound in torturous positions.” After Bagram, in 2002, Shaker was among the first to be sent to Guantanamo Bay, where we know that he has endured harsh, brutal and inhuman treatment. That has been exposed by the United States authorities themselves. The CIA’s own torture memos of what happened in Guantanamo—which was authorised, unfortunately—describe “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques endorsed by Dick Cheney for use in Guantanamo, including, yelling, slapping, stress positions, extremes of heat and cold, constant bright lights, permanent noise and constantly repeated music, food, sleep and sensory deprivation, long periods of total solitary confinement, removal of facial hair, removal of blanket, clothes, toothbrush…forced nudity, and forced feeding, sexual assault, water-boarding and suffocation in a narrow box, prolonged shackling of hands and feet, threats to family, exposure to dogs, insects etc., denial of exercise or daylight.” We know from the prisoners who have been released so far that that is exactly what Shaker has experienced while being held in Guantanamo Bay. We also know from evidence provided by the United States guards themselves about the performance of those tortures. Shaker has never been charged with any crime. He has been cleared for release twice but continues to be detained in Guantanamo, while many others have been released, including all the Britons and British residents. Over the past 12 months, 33 prisoners have been released in difficult circumstances. They have been released to host countries from Uruguay to Kazakhstan, which has obviously involved fairly complicated arrangements. It is hard to understand why the United States finds a transfer to the United Kingdom almost impossible; it is extraordinary that David Hicks, who had admitted to terrorist activity, was released to Australia in February, but the United States refuses to release Shaker, who has never been charged and has been cleared for release twice. Why is Shaker still being detained? That is the question that we are all asking. Why can he not be allowed to come home to his family? We can only speculate. Is it because he knows too much about what happened in Guantanamo Bay and will ensure that the truth comes out if he is released? Is it because he was a spokesperson for the prisoners in Guantanamo when he was setting up the prisoners’ council? Is this part of some vindictive victimisation? Or is it because he can bear witness to the involvement of not just United States but, possibly, British intelligence in the illegal, criminal torture that went on in Bagram, Kandahar and Guantanamo? The United Kingdom Government have made representations—I thank successive Foreign Secretaries, the Prime Minister and other Ministers for that—but unfortunately, those representations have been to no avail. Shaker’s Member of Parliament, the hon. Member for Battersea (Jane Ellison) , who has worked assiduously on his behalf, cannot participate in such debates because of her ministerial position, but she can testify to the representations that the United Kingdom Government have made to the United States Government over the years. In January, the Prime Minister visited Washington and raised Shaka’s case again with President Obama. The President gave an assurance that the case would be prioritised, but we now know from a recent statement by the United States Defence Secretary that no proposal for release—certainly, no proposal for Shaka’s release—has landed on his desk We also know that there have been discussions within the United States Administration, and possibly with United Kingdom officials previously, about deporting Shaker to Saudi Arabia, where his safety and human rights would certainly be at risk. There are questions to which I would welcome the Minister’s response. Will he update the House on what further representations have been made by the UK Government to the US Government since January 2015 when the Prime Minister had the meeting with President Obama? What is the Government’s understanding of what continues to block Shaker’s release? It is very difficult to fathom why Shaker has still not been released when the closest ally of the US has made representations and a formal request and when the President of the US has said that the case will be prioritised. It is beyond credibility. Have any grounds or reasons been given for his continued detention? What assurances have the Government been given that Shaker will not be transferred to Saudi Arabia? If possible, will the Minister tell us the next steps that the UK Government plan to take to secure Shaker’s release? Will the UK Government press the US Administration, particularly the President, for a clear timetable for Shaker’s release? In due course, we will need a full and thorough independent inquiry into Shaker’s evidence about British intelligence collusion. I would welcome the Minister’s views on that proposal. However, the most important thing for us now is to bring Shaker home. As I have said, many words have been spoken by Ministers, Prime Ministers, Foreign Secretaries and now even the President about the release of Shaker, but there has been no action. Now is the time for action, not words. That is why we have secured the debate. Shaker’s release has now become urgent. As a result of more than a decade of detention and barbaric treatment, including extensive torture, his health has deteriorated significantly. A recent medical assessment by Dr Emily Keram states that Shaker suffers from serious ailments, including migraines, asthma, urinary retention, ear and skin problems and extreme post-traumatic stress disorder as a result of his imprisonment in Guantanamo. I hope that today’s motion will be supported by everyone. It is very straightforward and states: “That this House calls on the US Government to release Shaker Aamer from his imprisonment in Guantánamo Bay and to allow him to return to his family in the UK.” The cross-party group of MPs and Lords supporting Shaker’s campaign for release numbers more than 40 and includes many senior Members of this House and ex-Ministers. It is a sizeable and active group, and we will send a delegation shortly to Washington to meet officials from the Administration over there to press for the release of Shaker. The UK Government can give us help and give this campaign significant support and momentum. I appeal to Members to pass the motion today; let us send a clear and unanimous message to the US President that we want Shaker released and returned to his family. Shaker’s family members, in particular his sons, have joined us in Parliament today. I want us all to say to them now that we pledge that we will not rest until their father is free and back in the arms of his family.
2015-03-17b.710.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	David Davis	Our legal system and the American legal system are based on a very important principle, the principle of the presumption of innocence. That has not been extended to Shaker Aamer. What is more, in his case, although we are not in a position to make the judgment ourselves, a great deal of evidence, from how he was picked up on the basis of a ransom through to the statements of the US authorities that there is no case against him, shows a probability of innocence, yet this man has faced 13 years in the most unbelievable circumstances. I make the point about innocence because it is one thing for a terrorist or soldier to be subjected to this sort of behaviour, involving the sort of treatment that the British Government gave up in the early 1970s after using it in Northern Ireland because it was deemed to be torture. In fact, what is going on is much worse than what we gave up and deemed to be torture. However, that is the basis on which Shaker Aamer is being held. The same sort of torture led the American Government to conclude that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, as they tortured someone else 83 times until they eventually said, “Yes, yes, I give in.” That means that, even if there were confessional evidence against Shaker, it would be completely untrustworthy; indeed, it would be thrown out, as Clive Stafford Smith of Reprieve has said. From the point of view of basic humanity, for somebody who is innocent to be put through that is probably 10 times as bad as it is for somebody who is guilty, and it would be bad for them, too. Our understanding is that Shaker has been a representative in the disputes in Guantanamo, which may make him more of a target. In addition to his own torture, he is said to have witnessed the torture of others, which may be why his release is being withheld. He is the last British resident being held there. I join the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) in asking the Minister to give an account of the Americans’ explanation of why they have not released Shaker. If they have not done so because he would embarrass them, that represents a doubling up of the guilt on their part. Frankly, this will come out into the open at some point. The colonel who headed the unit of American military lawyers who both prosecute and defend people in Guantanamo told them at the beginning of their military commission that they should be wary of any techniques and tactics that they allowed to be used, because, in his words, in America there is no such thing as a secret, just deferred disclosure. That is eminently true in the case under discussion. The more rapid that disclosure, the better for every country. I can understand to some extent why, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, we dropped the moral standards by which we ought to abide—that was wrong, but understandable. I do not understand, however, the continued attempt to cover things up a dozen and more years later. For that reason, too, Shaker ought to be released. I do not want to take up too much time, so I will finish by simply saying that the west has had a moral slough of despond after 9/11. We have abandoned our own standards and fallen short of the ethical standards that we should uphold. It is now doubly incumbent on us to act to ensure that those who have suffered as a result are released to their families as rapidly as possible, before their health is completely destroyed, which is what Shaker Aamer faces. It is also important to our own nations and citizens that we confess.
2015-03-17b.711.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Kate Hoey	What does the right hon. Gentleman think this tells us about the so-called special relationship between the United Kingdom and the United States? When our Prime Minister meets President Obama, it is unbelievable that we cannot get a straight answer about a citizen of our country being held by the US.
2015-03-17b.711.1	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	David Davis	It may say two things. The first—it saddens me to say this—is that President Obama may not be in complete control of his own country. After all, he promised to close down Guantanamo early on but then did not do so, at great political cost to himself and, indeed, to his moral standing. Secondly, when it comes down to it, America puts its own interests far ahead of those of any other country. That is the doctrine of American exceptionalism, which in one sense is understandable because it is based on freedom, but in another sense it leads to the almost colonial treatment of its allies. If that is the case, it is deplorable. As America’s longest-standing and strongest ally, we should expect special treatment, but we have clearly not been given it in this case.
2015-03-17b.711.2	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Jim Cunningham	Looking at the morality of this case, and bearing in mind the fact that America—and Britain, for that matter—have lectured the world on democracy and justice, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is not a very good example of American justice to have a person spend 13 years in prison without ever being charged with anything and being tortured? What does that say about the west, given the way in which we look at the rest of the world, and particularly the middle east?
2015-03-17b.711.3	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	David Davis	I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, which goes to the heart of what I was about to say in conclusion. One of the great dimensions of our soft power in the world, which I used to come across all the time as a British Foreign Minister, was the expectation that we would behave differently from others and that we would not fall to the standards of the Soviet Union or of other totalitarian states. We were paid more attention as a result of that. It was less true of America, but it was true none the less. This whole exercise—involving Shaker Aamer, Binyam Mohamed and a whole series of others—shows that we have dropped from those high standards. We have fallen from the grace in which public opinion held us. Indeed, by behaving like the guy in the black hat rather than the guy in the white hat, we have essentially done what al-Qaeda would have liked us to do. That is why I say that we have a duty to our own citizens in this matter just as much as we have a duty to Shaker Aamer. We are letting our citizens down as well as letting him down. We are betraying the standards that millions died to protect in two world wars over the past century, and we are increasing the risk of terrorism because this situation legitimises the kind of barbarous behaviour that we have seen too much of in the past few years. I shall finish by joining the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington in asking the Minister to give an undertaking that we will redouble our efforts and not give up until Shaker Aamer is returned to his family.
2015-03-17b.712.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Gerald Kaufman	I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) for instituting this debate. He has described in some detail what has been done to Shaker Aamer. If such treatment were to be carried out by a foreign Government, President Obama would be the first to denounce it. The human implications of this illegal imprisonment of a man who has never been charged with any offence are horrifying, and the House expresses its sympathy with his family for what they know this man has endured. The treatment of this man is appalling. It is appalling that, although he was signed off for release by the Bush Administration eight years ago and by the present United States Administration, he has still not been released. It is appalling that he is still being treated in a way that would be regarded as inhuman and unacceptable in any country in the world. Those are all facts about this persecuted, imprisoned, tortured individual. While not departing in any way from our deep concern and huge anger about the treatment of Shaker Aamer, we have to look at the United States, which has imprisoned him for all these years. I am a great admirer of the United States, but I find it incomprehensible that two successive Presidents of that country—one of whom gives himself an enormous amount of credit as a liberal humanitarian—should have first opened and then maintained the kind of torture camp that is illegal in any country in the world. What would we say if Islamic State had a camp interning illegally, for years without charge, people innocent or guilty? Shaker Aamer is innocent, but this applies also to people who might be guilty. If any country in the world had an illegal camp in which torture, solitary confinement and inhuman treatment were all daily occurrences, we would regard that country as a savage outlaw. Guantanamo Bay is illegal and its maintenance is a war crime—it is as great a war crime as any other being committed anywhere in the world. Obama, in his original election campaign, promised he would close it. He has been there more than six years and it is still open. We can have a discussion about the extent to which he has been prevented from closing it by a rogue Congress, but he has not made an issue of it; he maintains an illegal war crimes camp and has done so under his Administration for more than six years and, like a lot of the other things he does, he gets away with it. Let us look at this man who maintains this illegal torture camp, where waterboarding, solitary confinement and inhuman treatment are daily occurrences. This is the man, the President of the United States, who sends out drones over Pakistan which have killed 3,000 Pakistanis. This is the man who sends out assassination teams to kill people of whom he disapproves all over the world. He claims to be in charge of a liberal democracy, yet, as I repeat, if this were taking place in any other country, he would be up on his feet, with beautiful eloquence, for which he is noted, saying how inhuman it was and how unacceptable it was. If this were happening under Islamic State or in Libya—I do not know whether he is going to denounce the abominable death sentences for those in the Muslim Brotherhood which have just been announced in Egypt—or in any other country in the world, he would be up on his feet saying, “This is a war crime.” I, like my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington, the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) and others in this House, am deeply concerned about the inhuman treatment of Shaker Aamer, and we passionately will go on calling for his release. I do not in any way imply that the Government have not done their best, because they have. But what kind of a special relationship is it where one member of a relationship takes all the time and the other is regarded as a junior, negligible partner? That is what we have here: the United Kingdom loyal to the United States—perhaps too loyal, and I say that without being critical of our Government—and the United States not giving a damn. So we denounce the inhuman treatment of Shaker Aamer and demand that he be released, and we shall go on demanding that, but we also say to the United States, “Don’t be sanctimonious about other countries when you commit war crimes.”
2015-03-17b.713.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Andrew Mitchell	I do not need to detain the House for long, because the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) gave such an excellent speech and because the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) set out the case with both clarity and conviction. I wish to make it clear that I yield to no one in my admiration for the work that the British security services and others have done in addressing a very real terrorist threat, the issues of which will take a generation or more to deal with. The point at issue today is a far more fundamental one. I very much hope that the Foreign Office and the diligent Minister who is here today to respond to the debate will note that, although the House may not be particularly packed, it is nevertheless true that here on these Benches are representatives of almost every conceivable opinion that the House of Commons could hold. We are all, I believe, utterly united behind the motion that was moved by the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington. The hon. Gentleman will know very well that he and I agree on almost nothing in British politics, but on this issue we are shoulder to shoulder; we are as one. I wish to make a point that was set out by my right hon. Friend, which is that in Britain, we respect the law; we believe in certain universal values. Sometimes, they are said to be British values, but I do not like that term. They are universal values, and the debate on Shaker Aamer gets absolutely to the heart of those values. I had the pleasure, just a fortnight ago, of going to join in Friday prayers at the largest mosque in Europe, the Central Mosque in Birmingham. It is accepted by all of us that there is considerable alarm in the British Muslim community about Islamophobia. Muslims look at this particular case and think that certain rules apply to some people, but not others. The point that this House of Commons should stand up for today is that justice is colour blind and creed blind. It should apply to everyone, but it is not applying to Shaker Aamer, and it is up to us to give voice to this view. The House of Commons must stand up today for justice for all citizens wherever they are from, and never more so than in this particular debate.
2015-03-17b.714.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Neil Carmichael	It is a pleasure to participate in this debate, and I thank my right hon. Friend for allowing me to intervene. Is not the essence of this debate the rule of law and the application of fair rule of law? The absence of proper application of the rule of law is at the heart of this issue.
2015-03-17b.714.1	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Andrew Mitchell	My hon. Friend makes the central case that we are discussing. Let me add a few words to what the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington said at the start of the debate. Shaker Aamer has been detained for 13 years. He has twice been cleared for release: once in 2007 by the former US President, George Bush, and, more recently, in 2009, by President Obama. Our own Prime Minister has made vigorous representations, if one is to believe the press, in respect of Shaker Aamer, and the United States has made it clear that there is no evidence against him, and yet he is still incarcerated in the conditions that were described by the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton.
2015-03-17b.714.2	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Stephen Timms	Will the right hon. Gentleman comment on another point that the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) made in his speech: that Shaker is not being released because of what he has seen in Guantanamo, and the authorities do not want that to be known more widely? If there is a mystery here about why he is still being detained, does the right hon. Gentleman think that that is the answer?
2015-03-17b.714.3	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Andrew Mitchell	That might or might not be so, and it is an important matter, but it is not central to the case I am making, which is this: here is someone whose release has been cleared by two US Presidents, and against whom the US authorities have made it clear there is no evidence, yet he remains incarcerated, after 13 years. There have been numerous British requests, the most recent of which was made by the Prime Minister during his highly successful visit to America. Jacqui Smith, when Home Secretary, made the request, as did the former Foreign Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), and other Foreign Office Ministers, including my right hon. Friend to my right—geographically, at least—my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) , who engaged in the case energetically. The failure to make progress fuels the theories referenced in the most recent intervention. Nevertheless, those British requests cannot be treated with apparent arrogance by the American Administration and just cast aside with glib words while that man remains incarcerated with no case against him.
2015-03-17b.715.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Alistair Burt	I thank my right hon. Friend for his kind words. I am absolutely certain that the advice being given in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office today is the same as that given when I was there, and I know my hon. Friend the Minister is following it diligently. Does my right hon. Friend agree that what unites people of different political opinions on this matter is a sense both that justice for one is justice for all—that is being denied in this case—and that for those who look at it from a very practical point of view on how we deal with some of the difficult issues facing the world, from both a United States and a British perspective, none of that work is being assisted in a case in which someone has been detained for so long without trial or charge?
2015-03-17b.715.1	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Andrew Mitchell	My right hon. Friend makes the case with great eloquence, as he has done in government and from the Back Benches. I will end by reiterating the points that the mover of the motion made to the Minister. I ask him to be specific in his response and to be clear about what representations on Shaker Aamer’s case have been made and what ongoing representations are being made. If he cannot give the House answers today, will he seek immediately from the American Administration a very clear explanation of why they continue to block Shaker Aamer’s release? Will he make very clear what next steps the British Government intend to take to secure his immediate release to Britain, not to anywhere else? In his discussions with the American Administration, will he press them to confirm a specific timetable for his release and repatriation to Britain? This is a matter of great importance. As my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire said, it is about the universality of justice. It is about the signal we send as the House of Commons to all our citizens about the nature of justice and our determination to see that it is pursued. On that basis, I once again congratulate the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington and other colleagues on securing this important debate, and I very much look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.
2015-03-17b.715.2	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Andy Slaughter	I am pleased to be able to support the motion this afternoon and contribute to the debate, which is notable for both the quality and the brevity of the speeches—I will try to emulate that. The speeches have been brief not because of any lack of concern on the part of those who have spoken; on the contrary, it is because the facts of this case are simple and the motion clear—and, indeed, the remedy is simple. My hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) set out the background, which I need not repeat. He talked about the history of Guantanamo Bay and those who remain there, the status and treatment of Shaker Aamer, the lack of due process, the questions of nationality and the statements made by both the British and US authorities. We need not elaborate on those further because they are a matter of record. Indeed, I suspect that the only person we might like to hear from at length today is the Minister, in the hope that we can have an answer to questions that remain outstanding. I would like to pay tribute to the campaign that has been run both inside this House and, more particularly, outside it. My hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington recently set up the all-party group, which is doing a good job. It has members from all parts of the House, some of whom have spoken in the debate or, I expect, are about to speak. Beyond that, the campaign in the wider country has been insistent, clear and deliberative and has used every possible means. It is invidious in some ways to mention individuals, but I will mention Joanne MacInnes and Andy Worthington, who work daily and tirelessly in every possible way—from complex legal argument to giant inflatables—to raise the matter. They have no personal association with the family, but they care so deeply that they have inspired many other people and the campaign is superb. As part of the briefing for this debate, we were sent a statement from 278 imams and community leaders around the country. That should carry some weight with the Government, as should the petitions over the years which have accumulated hundreds of thousands of signatures. This is an issue which the Muslim community in this country cares about, as does the wider community, as a simple matter of law and justice. What it boils down to is, why? That is the question people have put and to which they have conjectured answers. As the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) said, in the absence of an answer from the Government, there will be more speculation. If it is right that, as we have heard, the US under successive Presidents has cleared Shaker for release, and if it is right that for years under different Administrations the British Government have been using their best endeavours to secure his release, why is he still incarcerated? I am putting the Minister on the spot somewhat, but the House deserves an answer to that today. We know that there are forces out there who are clear that they wish the inmates of Guantanamo Bay to be retained there, and we have seen attempts by the Republican Congress to do that recently. We do not have the President of the United States here, we do not have the American authorities here, but we know the statements that President Obama has previously made. We have Her Majesty’s Government here, and Shaker’s family who are present, the campaigners who are present, MPs on all sides, and the distinguished right hon. and hon. Members who have spoken, including from the Government Back Benches, deserve an answer to the question why a British subject whose family are British citizens has been incarcerated for 13 years and tortured. There is no reason discernible to me, my constituents and all those who have taken an interest in the case why that remains the situation.
2015-03-17b.717.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tim Farron	I add my congratulations and thanks to the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) for bringing this matter to the House. The quality of speeches on all sides, the power of the points made and, more importantly, the unity in the Chamber are a source of encouragement and underline the level of frustration and incredulity that something so self-evidently wrong and outrageous should continue in the face of such incontrovertible evidence. Along with right hon. and hon. Members on all sides, I want to state our conviction that Shaker Aamer is an innocent man and is being treated unjustly. We stand resolutely with his family, who continue to endure the separation and division of their family, awareness of Shaker Aamer’s ill health and the realisation of the appalling treatment that he has unjustly and inhumanly received for all these years. We say sometimes that a person is innocent until proven guilty. We should clarify that and say “unless proven guilty”. In this case, there is no guilt to be proven. As a number of colleagues have said, two US Presidents, Bush and Obama, have both in effect cleared Shaker Aamer for release, yet here we still are. Shaker Aamer’s incarceration, his being subjected to torture, and the length of time involved—13 or 14 years now—is an outrage. The man has not seen his youngest child. This is an absolutely immoral outrage. It is perhaps even more outrageous that this blot on our collective conscience occupies so little space in the consciousness of people in western society. I shall be interested to hear what the Minister says about the reasons the United States has given, or continues to give, for the failure to release Shaker Aamer, yet the reality is that no excuse would be good enough. We understand that there is a dispute over whether, as the Americans want, he is released to Saudi Arabia or whether, as we want, he is released to the United Kingdom. That is not an acceptable excuse. This man belongs here; his family are here. There is no just reason whatsoever why he should not be released now, and released to this country. I hope that the United States takes some notice of what is meant to be its strongest and most loyal ally, the United Kingdom, and what is said here in the Parliament of that country. Will it take notice of the fact that, in our eyes and in the eyes of many other people in the civilised world, this is the behaviour of an extremist regime—the kind of behaviour that we would expect the United States to castigate, as the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) so rightly said? Speaking as somebody who counts himself as a Liberal Democrat and has a habit of instinctively lionising President Obama, may we somehow communicate to him the fact that this is an appalling stain on his legacy, on his record, and even on his character? Either he is not sufficiently important and powerful to make sure that these things happen, or he is a man who is not of his word. We should be appalled by this and say to him, as strong friends, that this is a stain on his legacy and on his record. It is also a massive strain on UK-US relations; perhaps it should be an even greater strain than it is. I want to make three brief points. First, the justice and humanitarian arguments are incontrovertible. We would like to hear from the Minister what the United States Government have been saying to our Government. Secondly, as I am sure Members on both sides of the House will testify, when one is a UK citizen, one has, all over the world, a sense of shared responsibility about the actions of other western nations. The moral authority of “the west”, if we can call it that, is undermined by the continued presence of Guantanamo Bay itself, and by the continued incarceration of the innocent man, Shaker Aamer. Thirdly, as the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) said, there is the issue of American self-interest. This continued action is absolutely not in America’s self-interest. The Americans may well fear that Shaker Aamer has things to say that they would consider to be against the American interest if they came into the public domain. Well, tough—if those things have happened, they must be known and we must hold this United States Administration, and previous ones, to account for them. The continued incarceration of this innocent man is far more of a threat to America’s interests. America has already—perhaps we are culpable too—acted in ways that have demonstrated a lack of understanding of some of the geopolitical problems that we face, not least the rise of ISIS. America has failed to understand what territory means to ISIS, and that it is not just another guerrilla Islamist extremist outfit but has an immense sense of theological destiny. We must understand its ideology, because if we fail to do so, it will become an even greater threat to world peace and security. We must also understand that while the motivation of al-Baghdadi and many others at the heart of that regime is theological and ideological—even apocalyptic—those who are going to help him and it have very different, much more political motivations. Many of those motivations come from the sense that western countries, and America in particular, specifically in relation to Guantanamo Bay, are acting in ways that deserve a response and a resistance—an insurgency—with ISIS as its torchbearer. It is not in America’s interests to continue to pour petrol on that fire. The incarceration of Shaker Aamer is unjust, wicked, and fundamentally counter-productive to America’s self-interest and ours. I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say.
2015-03-17b.718.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Jeremy Corbyn	I am pleased to be a signatory to the motion, along with colleagues from all parties. I draw attention to the fact that the hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) cannot be in the Chamber because he is engaged in other parliamentary business. It is only right to record that he strongly supports the motion, and he is a member of the cross-party group. The fact that we are having this debate at all is a credit to the system under which the Backbench Business Committee allocates time. More importantly, it is a credit to the campaigners and supporters of Shaker Aamer and other people who have been so wrongly and grossly detained at Guantanamo Bay. We should pay tribute to those who have worked for many years for Shaker Aamer’s release. They have stood outside Parliament, collected signatures on street corners on wet and windy Saturday mornings, and e-mailed, written to and lobbied MPs. They are the lifeblood of democracy, and we should show them some respect today: having this debate—albeit not as well attended as one hoped—is a credit to them. Much could be said, but in a sense it has all been said. The facts of the matter are quite simple. Shaker Aamer was wrongly taken from his family and imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay, and he has been disgracefully treated. He was cleared for release by President Bush, subsequently re-cleared for release by President Obama, but he has still not been released. He has been cleared for release for longer than President Obama has been President. It does not say very much about the power of the US presidency when the President can campaign for election partly on the basis of closing Guantanamo Bay, having specifically ordered the release of those against whom there is no case whatsoever but who have still not been released. I have been involved in numerous meetings with the Foreign Office and others on this subject over the years, and I am at a loss to understand what is preventing Shaker Aamer’s release. If there is no case against him, why is he still in Guantanamo Bay? Is he being held because he knows too much and has seen too much—the hunger strikes, the torture and the brutality—or is it because there is still pressure to take him to Saudi Arabia, from where he originates? That would be a disgrace, and I am sure that he would refuse to go there. He is a British resident, and he has a family in this country, with a young child he has never seen. Surely he should be released and brought back to this country as quickly as possible. I repeat that there is no case against him whatsoever in this country. Many people have taken up this cause, not least the Prime Minister and successive Foreign Secretaries and Foreign Office Ministers. When Hillary Clinton wrote to the then Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), she thanked him for his letter of 21 July 2010 concerning Shaker Aamer, and went on: “Our national security interests will continue to benefit from close consultation and mutual assistance with these issues.” She welcomed the opportunity to meet experts from the State Department to discuss the case, referred to President Obama’s Executive order of 22 January 2009 and looked forward to working closely with the Foreign Office to resolve the issue. It does not say much for a special relationship when the President orders a release and the Foreign Secretary and the US Secretary of State agree to work closely together, but Shaker Aamer still remains in prison with no case whatsoever against him. We have to look at the background to the human rights abuses in Guantanamo Bay. Much has been written about that in many documents, but a very interesting one put out by Amnesty International states: “There has been little or no accountability for the human rights violations that have occurred at Guantanamo, including the crimes under international law of torture and enforced disappearance. The recently published summary of the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI)’s review of the secret detention programme operated by the Central Intelligence Agency…finally confirmed that the naval base had been the location for a CIA ‘black site’ in 2003 and 2004 at which detainees were subject to enforced disappearance.” That is the nub of it: there has been enforced disappearance to a place that is a legal void and that knows no recognition in any form of international law in any country whatsoever. I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) that if this had been the treatment of a US citizen anywhere in the world, we would never have heard the end of it from successive US Presidents. I do not doubt that there would have been the threat of military action and all kinds of other things against any country that held a US citizen in these circumstances. I am not advocating sending the SAS to Guantanamo Bay to free Shaker Aamer or anything like that; what I am saying is that if the close relationship with the USA means anything, Shaker Aamer must be released immediately. If the House approves the motion tonight, as I am sure it will, it should be communicated in the strongest possible terms to the Senate and the House in the USA that the British Parliament fully supports the release of Shaker Aamer. The breadth of political support for him in the cross-party group is surprising. The right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) will not mind my mentioning—indeed, he said the same of my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) —that he and I agree on very little, except for humanity and justice. In this case, we absolutely agree that the way in which Shaker Aamer has been treated is completely unjust and that he must be released. That, surely, has to be the message that we give tonight. People have campaigned for justice for many years. We achieved a Parliament because people campaigned for our right to have a democracy. The essential part of a democracy is that the judicial system is independent of the political system and that everyone has the right to an independent hearing in a court of law. There is an exhibition in Westminster Hall that says just that because it is 800 years since Magna Carta. This man has never been in court, has never been charged, has never been convicted, has no case against him and has been approved for release and freedom, yet he is still in prison. Surely the message from this Parliament is, “Bring him home. Close Guantanamo Bay and end the outrage and abuse of human rights that it represents.” Otherwise, what is the message to the rest of the world? It is that we are incapable, that we do not care, or that, by our inaction, we tacitly approve of something as vile as Guantanamo Bay and the torture and ill-treatment that has gone on there.
2015-03-17b.720.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Caroline Lucas	I add my congratulations to the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) and his colleagues on securing this incredibly important debate. As one of the last speakers, I will probably repeat a little of what has been said, but I think that it is important to do so. In particular, I want to pick up on what the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) was just saying and on the tone of bewilderment that he expressed so well. It is simply incredible that this person who has never been charged with any offence is still languishing in Guantanamo Bay. The hon. Gentleman summed up very well what we all feel: that this is utterly unjustifiable and utterly incredible, and that action is needed. I joined other people on a delegation to the Foreign Secretary last year. We sat in a very nice office in the Foreign Office, but even after 45 minutes in that meeting, I came out no wiser than I went in. I do not think that I was alone in that. I simply cannot understand why the telephone cannot be picked up. If the US is this amazing ally, why can we not have that conversation and get this man home? I want to say a few things about the situation in which Shaker has been held, because it is so deeply shocking that it is happening here and now. Last year, there were reports that Shaker and another detainee had been subjected to violent beatings carried out by a forcible cell extraction team. As well as suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, Shaker has a number of psychological problems such as severe anxiety and insomnia, unsurprisingly. His physical health has also suffered as a direct result of his mistreatment. An independent medical assessment concluded that he has oedema, severe tinnitus, kidney pain, severe headaches, asthma and loss of vision, yet in June 2014, the previous Foreign Secretary claimed that he was confident that Shaker had access to a “detainee welfare package” and that his health remained stable. I would love the Minister to confirm when he last had an independent update about Shaker’s physical and mental health and what that update said. During Shaker’s 12 long years of detention, he has been tortured by US agents—for example, by having his head repeatedly banged against a wall—and has witnessed the torture of another UK resident. He has spent more than 1,000 nights in a windowless isolation cell, and when first detained, he was starved, kept awake for nine days straight, and chained in positions that made the slightest movement unbearable. In 2005, he was placed in isolation for 360 days for his role in organising a hunger strike after military police beat up a prisoner while he was praying. Prison rules permit isolation for only 30 days. Shaker has seen other prisoners treated in gratuitously violent ways, including being hospitalised and/or rendered unconscious as a result of forcible cell extractions. He was often subjected to the same violent process used by guards against non-compliant prisoners, and claims that he suffered FCEs up to eight times a day. We know that such things have been recorded, so can the Minister tell the House why the Prime Minister has accepted the US authorities’ decision that those recordings are classified, given that they constitute evidence that a UK resident has been tortured? Is it standard UK practice to fail to press for such evidence, and does the Minister agree that that could be considered, at very least, as condoning Shaker’s torture and mistreatment, if not potentially being complicit in it? Shaker’s lawyers have been advised by the former Foreign Secretary that the US position is to limit Shaker’s clearance for release to Saudi Arabia—the country where he was born and where he is likely to face further mistreatment and detention, as well as the prospect of ongoing estrangement from his wife and children. Such a move would hugely limit the opportunities for Shaker to speak out about what has happened and get full access to justice. Freedom of information documents secured by human rights group Reprieve demonstrate that the US has been in contact with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia about Shaker’s case, although the context for that has been censored. They contain details of a meeting between high-level US officials and the Saudi Minister of Interior. Will the Minister say what assurance the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has sought and received that Shaker will not be transferred to Saudi Arabia? I am concerned, as others have voiced, that the only possible reason for sending Shaker to Saudi Arabia is to stop him speaking out about his abuse—abuse in which he claims the UK authorities have been complicit. For example, it is alleged that a British operative was present while a US interrogator repeatedly smashed Shaker’s head against a wall, shortly before he was sent to Guantanamo. Can the Minister give a cast-iron guarantee that the UK has not been complicit in any way in the abuses that Shaker has suffered? This debate is hugely important and I will end, as others have done, by thanking the extraordinary campaigns of so many tireless campaigners who have kept this issue near the top of the agenda where it belongs. I hope that this debate is one further step towards getting justice for Shaker.
2015-03-17b.722.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Gareth Thomas	I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) and his co-sponsors on securing this debate on Shaker Aamer, and I apologise for missing a significant part of his contribution. He has been one of the leading parliamentary campaigners for Mr Aamer’s release, and I acknowledge the presence of the hon. Member for Battersea (Jane Ellison) , who is the constituency MP for Mr Aamer and his family—indeed, this debate provides an important opportunity to follow up a Backbench Business Committee debate on the same subject that she initiated in April 2013. My right hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) has also been a particularly active campaigner for Mr Aamer’s release, given that, as I understand, some of Mr Aamer’s wider family live in his constituency.
2015-03-17b.722.1	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Jeremy Corbyn	I am pleased that my hon. Friend has rightly praised the hon. Member for Battersea (Jane Ellison) and others. Will he include in that praise the great work done by Reprieve and Clive Stafford Smith on this case? They have bravely unearthed so much about the horrors of Guantanamo Bay and extraordinary rendition, which is a blot on all our legal pasts in this country.
2015-03-17b.722.2	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Gareth Thomas	As on so many things, my hon. Friend is ahead of me. I will happily do that, although I want to return to the role of Reprieve and Clive Stafford Smith a little later in my remarks. I strongly support hon. Members across the House in saying that the last remaining British detainee at Guantanamo Bay, Mr Aamer, should be released and returned to the UK as soon as humanly possible. Hon. Members on both sides of the House have shared profound concern about Mr Aamer’s case and, indeed, about the continued existence of the Guantanamo Bay facility. National security and the continuing drive to keep our citizens safe is the first responsibility of government, but we have always been clear that a profound respect for human rights must also lie at the heart of policy. We remain deeply concerned that Guantanamo detainees are held without trial indefinitely. As my Front-Bench colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) , has previously underlined—as others have done today—that in itself is a serious affront to international human rights standards. She has also previously drawn attention, rightly, to the concern and condemnation from the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights that the continuing indefinite imprisonment of many of the Guantanamo Bay detainees was in clear breach of international law, referencing the systematic breaches of individual human rights. The Opposition remain firmly opposed to the continuation of the Guantanamo Bay facility. Through our diplomatic efforts when in government, all British citizens and all but one of those who had been resident in Britain were transferred out of Guantanamo Bay. As other hon. Members have made clear, Mr Aamer is a Saudi citizen who was resident in the UK. He is married to a British woman and he has four British children who live in London. I understand, as others have made clear, that Mr Aamer has never met his youngest son, who was born on the very day he was transferred to Guantanamo Bay. Mr Aamer was detained in Afghanistan in November 2001, where the US authorities apparently suspected that he had been working for Osama bin Laden. He has been imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay since February 2002. He is now the last remaining British resident held there. He has, I understand, always maintained his innocence, and Clive Stafford Smith, his lawyer, claims the documents that the accusations against him are based on would not stand up in court. Indeed, his legal team state that his treatment at Bagram airfield in 2001, allegedly including sleep deprivation and physical abuse, led him to make a false confession that has been used to justify his detention without trial ever since. There is great concern about Mr Aamer’s health. Earlier this year, I understand that a number of leading doctors wrote an open letter to raise a number of concerns about the impact on Mr Aamer’s physical and mental well-being of spending 13 years in Guantanamo Bay. I understand that a medical assessment carried out last year found he was suffering from serious psychiatric problems and a number of serious physical ailments, too. It is alleged that Mr Aamer has been beaten more than 300 times while in detention and has suffered regularly from sleep deprivation. Reports that Mr Aamer has on occasion been deprived of water and has arthritis, asthma, prostate and kidney problems and severe backache are very worrying. It is a deeply damaging allegation, aired again by my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) , that he is only still being held because he has witnessed significant human rights abuses, which the Guantanamo Bay authorities fear would be revealed if Mr Aamer was released and spoke out about his experience. As other hon. Members have made clear, Mr Aamer has been cleared for transfer out of Guantanamo Bay on two occasions—in 2007 and in 2009—yet has still not been released. I understand that British diplomatic staff are not able to visit Mr Aamer, although it would be helpful if the Minister provided clarification on that point. I understand that the International Committee of the Red Cross is able to visit Mr Aamer, and it would be helpful to hear from the Minister when the ICRC last did so. It is clear that Mr Aamer will be released only after further encouragement—let me use those words carefully —to the US authorities, so it would be helpful to hear from the Minister when the last ministerial representations to their US equivalents about Mr Aamer took place. There has been speculation that the key US legislation determining whether Guantanamo Bay detainees can be released or transferred is the 2011 National Defence Authorisation Act, which allows the US Defence Secretary to exercise a waiver and therefore release individual detainees if certain conditions are met. Has any UK Minister raised Mr Aamer’s case with the US Defence Secretary? What prospects can the Minister offer the House that the NDAA might offer a potential route to secure Mr Aamer’s release from Guantanamo Bay soon? Given that Mr Aamer is a Saudi national and the reports that he has, as I indicated, previously been cleared for transfer out of Guantanamo Bay but allegedly only to Saudi Arabia, what discussions have Foreign Office Ministers had with their Saudi counterparts? Do the Saudi Government support Mr Aamer’s release from Guantanamo Bay and, crucially, do they support his release back to the UK? Reprieve and Amnesty International have campaigned for Mr Aamer’s release. Reprieve, in particular, has used freedom of information requests to establish that significant meetings have taken place between US and British officials to discuss Mr Aamer’s possible transfer, most recently, I understand, on 29 October 2013 . It would be helpful if the Minister set out in a little more detail what he understands are the substantive remaining US concerns about Mr Aamer that are preventing his release. The essential question remains: why, despite being cleared for transfer out of Guantanamo Bay six and eight years ago, is Mr Aamer still being detained? There remains the question whether he was cleared for release back to Saudi Arabia only. Again, it would be helpful if the Minister clarified that issue. I understand that Mr Aamer has indefinite leave to remain here in the UK. He has family here in the UK; he is married to a British citizen; his children are British citizens; and he has not been convicted of any crime. By any reasonable consideration, he should be allowed to be transferred back to the UK, never mind to Saudi Arabia. Guantanamo Bay is a continuing blight on the human rights record of one of our closest allies, and the whole House will empathise with the anguish that Mr Aamer’s family and friends feel at his continued detention. I look forward to the Minister answering my and other hon. Members’ questions, reflecting our concerns and reassuring the House that the Government will redouble their efforts to secure Mr Aamer’s release.
2015-03-17b.724.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	This has been a helpful and constructive debate, and I join others in congratulating the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) on securing it through the Backbench Business Committee. I thank all right hon. and hon. Members for their contributions and the many right hon. and hon. Members who have campaigned in this House and outside. I am pleased that hon. Members have highlighted the work of my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Jane Ellison) in supporting Shaker Aamer’s family, who live in her constituency. I will do my best to answer as many points as I can. I spoke to the US embassy today at length on this matter, and the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon (Mr Swire) , who deals with the United States, had a meeting with US Ambassador Barzun yesterday at which he discussed these issues. I might be the only Member to have visited Guantanamo Bay, albeit from the Cuban side—that was as close as I could get—back in 2005. When I looked over at the camp area, I wondered how long it would be before it was closed. My right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) spoke about the reliability of the confessional evidence and how standards dropped after 9/11. The right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) talked about the double standards created by the creation of Guantanamo Bay. My right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) paid tribute, as do I, to the difficult and often unrecognised work of the intelligence services and the importance that justice prevails. The hon. Member for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter) talked about the size of the campaign, which has lasted a number of years, in support of Shaker Aamer. My hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) talked about the west’s moral authority being eroded and undermined because of Guantanamo Bay. The hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) and others talked about the number of people who had taken up this cause and referred to the Senate intelligence committee report—anyone who has read the accounts of that report will, like me, have found it deeply troubling. The hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) talked about the concerns about Mr Aamer’s release or transfer to Saudi Arabia. It is clear that Shaker Aamer wants to return to the UK, and that is what we support. The hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) , the shadow spokesman, raised several important questions that I shall try to answer. One aspect that I will cover now relates to the powers given to the US Defence Secretary under the National Defence Authorisation Act 2012. We have been in discussions with the US President, as I say, so we look to any measure required to ensure that justice prevails and Shaker Aamer is returned to the UK—whichever system, whichever protocol or whichever mechanism is used, including the one to which the hon. Gentleman referred.
2015-03-17b.725.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Gareth Thomas	On the point about the NDAA, as I understand it, any waivers that can be secured for the release of Mr Aamer under this legislation are controlled by the US Defence Secretary. Will the Minister tell us whether any representations have been made directly to the US Defence Secretary, perhaps by the Secretary of State for Defence or the Foreign Secretary?
2015-03-17b.725.1	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	The Foreign Secretary has raised this matter, but as I say, we have called on the President to use all available powers, and this is simply one mechanism that could be used. I certainly welcome this opportunity to highlight the Government’s commitment on this issue. The UK has long held that indefinite detention without fair trial is unacceptable. Mr Aamer has been detained in Guantanamo Bay for 13 years, yet has not been charged with any crime. As a result of the UK’s long-standing opposition to the operation of the US detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, the UK Government exceptionally requested Mr Aamer’s release in 2007, and that request also included four other former UK residents who have since returned to the UK. The UK Government are committed to bringing Mr Aamer back to the UK, and we have made our position very clear to the US Government. We want to see him released as a matter of urgency, and we know that they fully understand this request. As hon. Members will have noted, the Prime Minister personally raised Mr Aamer’s case at his meeting with the US President on 16 January this year. We welcome President Obama’s commitment at that meeting to prioritise the review of Mr Aamer’s release to the UK. Supporters of Mr Aamer often cite the fact that he was cleared for release, and this has been repeated here today. He was cleared for release some years ago, and given the President’s commitment, people cannot understand why he is still in detention. I need to clarify, however, that Mr Aamer has been cleared only for transfer to Saudi Arabia, not cleared for release either in Saudi Arabia or indeed the UK. This is an important distinction under the applicable US legislation. President Obama’s statement means that Mr Aamer’s case has been prioritised for review through an inter-agency process. This comprehensive process undertaken by six US Government Departments involves a complex case-by-case review. We do not have a timetable for a decision, but we are confident that this review is under way. We hope, of course, that Mr Aamer will soon be released. However, it is important to understand that President Obama’s decision to close the detention facility and release its inmates remains a contentious political issue in Washington, as hon. Members have outlined in today’s debate. Stark differences of opinion exist in Congress across the political spectrum about the wisdom of doing this at a time of heightened terrorist threats. Within that, there remain real concerns about recidivism and the actions that detainees may take after they leave Guantanamo. Let us be clear, however, that Mr Aamer has not been charged with or convicted of any crime.
2015-03-17b.726.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Ian Murray	I have listened carefully to the debate and to the Minister’s contribution so far, so I hope I am not pre-empting what he is about to say. He has not yet told us, however—perhaps I have missed the clarity on the matter—what reasons the US has given to the Foreign Office for not releasing Shaker Aamer. What are the reasons behind not processing his release?
2015-03-17b.726.1	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was present at the beginning of the debate. I should like to make some progress, but I shall come to the point that he has raised. As I have said, Mr Aamer has not been charged with or convicted of any crime, but the United States Government have made it clear that any action taken to release him would have to remain consistent with United States national security.
2015-03-17b.727.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Caroline Lucas	The Minister is making much of concerns about what will happen to Shaker or anyone else after their release. The United Kingdom is one of the safest places for such people to return to. We have one of the safest structures to deal with any risk that might exist. This simply does not add up: I do not see what the obstacles are.
2015-03-17b.727.1	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	Let us take a step back from this particular case. Security questions must be asked, in the case of any inmate, about what will happen once the process has taken place. As I have said, the judicial process that is being conducted is very complex, and involves a number of Departments.
2015-03-17b.727.2	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Caroline Lucas	Surely the Minister agrees that it would be safer for Shaker to return to the United Kingdom than to go to Saudi Arabia, for example—safer for all of us, indeed.
2015-03-17b.727.3	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	The point has been made time and again about the manner in which many of the detainees ended up in Guantanamo Bay, and about the creation of Camp Delta in the first place. I make no comment on this particular case because it would be wrong for me to do so, but we need to ensure that every person who is processed will not be a danger to the United States or to any other country. It is a complex process, and I must make it very clear that I make no judgment on this particular case. I am about to give some numbers and a timetable, and details of the frequency with which detainees are being processed.
2015-03-17b.727.4	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Andrew Mitchell	The Minister is setting out his case, and he says that he does not need to make a judgment, but the United States has made it clear that there is no evidence against Shaker Aamer. Is that not the critical factor? May I encourage the Minister to share with the House, in some detail, the questions that he asked during his lengthy conversation with the American embassy this morning, and the answers that he received?
2015-03-17b.727.5	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	I want to make some progress. As I shall make clear shortly, I am not privy to the very complicated process, involving six United States Government Departments, that every single detainee will have to undergo before being cleared for release. That is the process that Shaker Aamer must undergo, like everyone else who has been released so far or will be released in the future. In supporting Mr Aamer’s release, we have emphasised to the United States Government that any individual who engages in terrorist-related activity in the United Kingdom can expect to be dealt with through use of the full range of powers that are available to us. I shall not list them here, but they are extensive, and we remain confident in the ability of our police and security services to deal with any such threats. I think that that partly answers the question asked by the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion. It would be inappropriate to comment on why Mr Aamer is in the Guantanamo Bay facility, especially as we continue to discuss the details of his case with the United States in order to secure his release. This is a sensitive issue and, as the House will understand, it has been the policy of successive Governments not to discuss intelligence matters. However, as Members well know, the United Kingdom does not participate in, solicit, encourage or condone the use of torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment for any purpose. We remain absolutely committed to ensuring that serious allegations of UK complicity in alleged rendition and mistreatment overseas are examined carefully. If any evidence of that were to come to light, we would take appropriate action. The investigation of, or prosecution of individuals involved in, any alleged torture carried out by the United States is a matter for the United States authorities.
2015-03-17b.728.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Jeremy Corbyn	Will the Minister give way?
2015-03-17b.728.1	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	I will, but then I must make some progress.
2015-03-17b.728.2	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Jeremy Corbyn	I thank the Minister for giving way; he is being very generous. In these investigations into torture and extraordinary rendition, is he getting all the co-operation he has asked for from the US authorities?
2015-03-17b.728.3	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	I can only repeat what I have just said: I cannot comment on intelligence matters relating to this particular case. Consular access is afforded to states only as regards their own nationals and, as has been repeated in this Chamber, Mr Aamer is a Saudi national. Our consular policy for non-British nationals is clear: we cannot help non-nationals no matter how long they have lived in the UK and regardless of their connections to the UK. Although the timeline for the closure of the facility remains a matter for the US Government, President Obama was elected in November 2008 having vowed to close Guantanamo Bay. In the early days of his presidency, he said: “There is…no question that Guantanamo set back the moral authority that is America’s strongest currency in the world.” He recognised that, faced with uncertain threats, hasty decisions were made “based on fear rather than foresight”. President Obama remains determined to see the Guantanamo Bay facilities closed by the end of his Administration, and we remain committed to assisting him in this aim. Of the original 779 detainees held in Guantanamo Bay, 122 remain, including Mr Aamer. Five detainees have been released so far this year, but in 2014 the US released 28, 19 of whom were released in November and December. That is a considerable increase in releases compared with previous years. From 2011 to 2013, a total of just 19 detainees were released. We have already made a significant contribution to reducing the number of detainees in Guantanamo Bay by taking back nine UK nationals and, exceptionally, five former legal residents. Aside from Mr Aamer, the UK is not considering accepting any further detainees from the Guantanamo Bay facility. More widely, we have facilitated engagement with countries that have agreed to accept former detainees, and shared experience and advice on managing the return process. In conclusion, as hon. Members have highlighted, 14 February was the 13th anniversary of Mr Aamer’s arrival at the Guantanamo Bay facility. Along with his family and his many supporters, the UK Government would like this to be the last anniversary that Mr Aamer passes in detention. Since the Prime Minister’s meeting with President Obama on 16 January , my officials and Government colleagues have continued to work to make that a reality, and we will carry on raising his case at the highest levels and at every reasonable opportunity to impress further on our US counterparts that we are looking for an urgent resolution.
2015-03-17b.729.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Andy Slaughter	I am sorry to press the Minister, but he has still to answer the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) . In the Minister’s long conversations with the American embassy and others in the US Government, what is the precise and exact reason he has been given as to why the release of Shaker Aamer is not possible at the moment?
2015-03-17b.729.1	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	I know that this will not satisfy the hon. Gentleman, but I can only repeat that these are intelligence matters on which I cannot comment in this House. I cannot do that. Following this debate, I will be writing to the US ambassador, Ambassador Barzun, to let him know the outcome, the passion expressed and this Government’s determination to see Shaker Aamer released.
2015-03-17b.729.2	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	David Ward	I understand the difficulty the Minister is in, but, as he announced, we all know that others have been released, although he cannot give any reasons. It appears that there is to be an investigation, but it seems there is a clear difference between those who have been released and Shaker Aamer. Is that the picture that emerged from the Minister’s conversations?
2015-03-17b.729.3	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	Again, the hon. Gentleman will not be satisfied with my answer, but I cannot be drawn on the individual case or into dealing with intelligence matters. I am afraid that that is as far as I can comment on this— [ Interruption. ] Would the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) like me to give way?
2015-03-17b.729.4	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Dennis Skinner	Everybody has been waiting for the Minister to reply. I was saying that it is a total anticlimax. The Minister has said that, far from being released, Mr Aamer is only under review. Almost all of what he has had to say is a sop to Congress, to the Americans generally and to the President, rather than an explanation to the House that he and his superiors will try their level best to get Mr Aamer out. He is like an apologist for the American regime.
2015-03-17b.729.5	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	The hon. Gentleman has made his point and he has clearly not listened to what I have said.
2015-03-17b.729.6	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Dennis Skinner	I’ve listened to every word you’ve said.
2015-03-17b.729.7	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	Tobias Ellwood	If I may continue, we have made it very clear that we have listened to this debate and we stand with this Parliament in calling for Shaker Aamer to be released. If the hon. Gentleman would care to have the courtesy to listen to what I am saying, he would understand that he has not heard this Government’s passion and commitment to speak at the highest levels to ensure that we can leverage and use our relationship. I stress that we have a strong, close and frank relationship that brings concrete benefits to both sides and that advances joint objectives. In the January meeting with President Obama, we were able to secure for the first time a guarantee that this will now become a priority. That is the first time that has been said. We will continue to press the issue, and this debate will have its place and be useful in that regard. I hope I have made it clear that the UK Government are absolutely committed to securing the release of Mr Aamer. Today I would like to underline that commitment and join the House in calling for the US Government to approve the release of Shaker Aamer to the UK.
2015-03-17b.730.0	JUSTICE	Backbench Business — Shaker Aamer	John McDonnell	I am grateful to the Minister for his last statement. I will deal briefly with three issues raised by the debate. First, we now know that Shaker Aamer is in the process of a review. We welcome that, but the problem is that we are still not clear about the evidence presented against him, because intelligence is not being shared. As far as I am concerned, the concept of intelligence is yet again being used as an excuse to cover up injustice. We are not sure about the review’s timetable or the criteria on which it will make its decision, so although I welcome the Minister’s saying that a review is taking place, unfortunately the process does not give us confidence. Secondly, I welcome wholeheartedly the Minister’s saying that the UK Government’s representations will continue, but he must take note of the sense of this House and those representations must be determined and courageous. We need to say frankly to our allies in America, “This man must be released.” Thirdly, a number of Members have raised the issue of access. We need to ensure that Shaker Aamer’s health is assessed and properly dealt with and that he secures the full legal representation he requires. The Minister has said that we are restricted in the consular support we can provide because he is not a British national. Actually, he received the right to indefinite leave in this country, and if it were up to me I would offer him full British citizenship in order to overcome the issue of overall access. Finally, someone said that this has not been a particularly well attended debate, but the attendance has been good for this type of debate. It has been well attended by senior Members, ex-Ministers and others with a human rights background, so I am really grateful for that and I know that the campaigners and the family will be, too. Let us all say together, in support of the motion, to the family, friends and campaigners, that we will not go away and we will secure the freedom of Shaker Aamer. Question put and agreed to . Resolved, That this House calls on the US Government to release Shaker Aamer from his imprisonment in Guantánamo Bay and to allow him to return to his family in the UK.
2015-03-19a.877.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Efficiency	Kelvin Hopkins	What steps he is taking to help households improve their energy efficiency
2015-03-19a.877.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Efficiency	Ian Lavery	What steps he is taking to help households improve their energy efficiency
2015-03-19a.877.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Efficiency	Amber Rudd	Making households more energy efficient is the surest and safest way to reduce energy bills. Thanks to the energy companies obligation and green deal schemes, more than 1 million homes have been made more energy efficient, helping households stay permanently warmer for less. In Luton North, more than 2,726 households have been helped by ECO alone, which is nearly the twice the national average in respect of households.
2015-03-19a.877.7	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Efficiency	Kelvin Hopkins	The truth is that millions of low-income families are still living in poorly insulated and cold homes, and paying very high fuel bills. Cuts to the energy companies obligation have meant that nearly half a million fewer households will receive vital upgrades to make their homes warmer and cheaper to heat, and, in any case, half of that budget goes to households who are not in poverty. Have this Government’s policies not been a failure, leaving millions of families too cold in their homes, struggling to pay heating bills and in need of a Labour Government to make their lives better?
2015-03-19a.877.8	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Efficiency	Amber Rudd	I do not share the hon. Gentleman’s interpretation. Fuel poverty under this Government has gone down. The changes to the ECO specifically took £50 off the bill, but reserved the amount that was to help the vulnerable and those on low incomes. So we have continued to focus on low-income and vulnerable people, to ensure that they are the first households to be made warmer for less.
2015-03-19a.877.9	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Efficiency	Ian Lavery	With one in 10 green deal companies being struck off, what assurances can the Minister give constituents of mine, and people across the country, who might suffer as a result of lower standards and poor, shoddy workmanship?
2015-03-19a.878.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Efficiency	Amber Rudd	I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving me the opportunity to address this matter. The fact is we have very tough consumer protection in this area. One in 10 have been struck off, but that is not necessarily to do with any criminal behaviour; it is to do with their not engaging properly with the certification process. It is because we have a tough certification process, which is in line with other organisations’ arrangements, that some have been struck off in order to protect the consumer better.
2015-03-19a.878.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Efficiency	Philip Hollobone	Many household electrical appliances use up far too much electricity. What progress has been made over the past five years on persuading manufacturers of these products to make them far more energy-efficient?
2015-03-19a.878.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Efficiency	Amber Rudd	I share my hon. Friend’s views on this issue. Some products do use far less electricity than others, and of course saving energy is the best way to save on people’s household bills. I am happy to say that the EU product regulations have been helpful in implementing this and we will continue to be able to do that.
2015-03-19a.878.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Efficiency	Michael Weir	The Minister will know that rural homes are often some of the worst in terms of energy efficiency. The renewable heat obligation should help with that. Unfortunately, I have encountered constituents who have installed a wood-burning boiler and been granted the renewable heat incentive payments only to have them removed later on the spurious grounds that the boiler may be able to burn logs as well as pellets. Is that not illogical?
2015-03-19a.878.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Efficiency	Amber Rudd	The scheme has been successful and we will continue to support it. On his specific question, may I suggest that he writes to me about the particular example and I will certainly look into the matter?
2015-03-19a.878.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Graeme Morrice	What recent assessment he has made of trends in levels of investment in low-carbon energy sources.
2015-03-19a.878.7	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Mary Glindon	What recent assessment he has made of trends in levels of investment in low-carbon energy sources.
2015-03-19a.878.8	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	David Hanson	What recent assessment he has made of trends in levels of investment in low-carbon energy sources.
2015-03-19a.878.9	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Karen Buck	What recent assessment he has made of trends in levels of investment in low-carbon energy sources.
2015-03-19a.878.10	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Edward Davey	On 24 March , we will be publishing a detailed report on the progress this coalition is making on investment in low-carbon energy, but let me now share two findings from that report ahead of next week’s publication. First, for the second year running the UK has invested more in clean energy than any other country in Europe, Secondly, Bloomberg new energy finance data show that last year was the UK’s best ever year for new-build renewable energy finance, placing the UK in the global top five. I promise, Mr Speaker, to give each Member in turn a new statistic showing how the UK is doing so well on low-carbon energy investment.
2015-03-19a.879.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Graeme Morrice	More than 50 companies called on the Secretary of State to implement a 2030 decarbonisation target. They warned that the absence of a specific carbon-intensity target was undermining investment. Does he regret not joining the 16 Members from his own party who rebelled against the Government and voted for this target?
2015-03-19a.879.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Edward Davey	The hon. Gentleman knows that my party and I are in favour of this target, which is why we legislated in the Energy Act 2013 to put one in and it will be in our manifesto. But he is wrong if he thinks this target is some sort of panacea for low-carbon energy investment. We were told by the Labour party that if we did not do this, we would not see the supply chain growing. But here is a statistic for him: the supply chain in the UK for low-carbon energy investment is booming. We have had the massive investment from Siemens and Associated British Ports in Hull, transforming that city, and we have seen what MHI Vestas has been doing in the Isle of Wight. Under this Government, low-carbon energy investment and the whole supply chain are booming.
2015-03-19a.879.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Mary Glindon	I am sure that the Minister will be pleased to know that Northumbrian Water has an advanced anaerobic digestion plant in my constituency that is not only producing green energy from the sewage treatment process but injecting it into the gas network. However, according to the Environmental Audit Committee, investment in clean energy is running at only half the rate needed if we are to meet our binding carbon emission commitments. Will the Minister explain why he is failing to generate the investment that we need?
2015-03-19a.879.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Edward Davey	Let me give a statistic to the hon. Lady: the annual rate of renewable energy investment in this Parliament is more than double the rate that it was in the previous Parliament. From 2010 to 2014, low-carbon investment has amounted to more than £40 billion. That is a record of which we are very proud.
2015-03-19a.879.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	David Hanson	What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the impact on employment in the onshore wind industry from the effective moratorium on onshore wind? He will probably know that my right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) and I recently visited West Coast Energy in my constituency, which employs many people developing onshore wind. The organisation is now threatened by the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government who is blocking wind farms. Surely the right hon. Gentleman does not support him in that.
2015-03-19a.879.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Edward Davey	The right hon. Gentleman will know that onshore wind has boomed under this Government. There is no moratorium, so what he said was wrong, but it is true that there are Conservative colleagues who do not share my enthusiasm for onshore wind. I recently opened the largest onshore wind farm in England at Keadby, and I was able to grant, after the recent very successful first auction of contracts for difference, 15 out of 27 contracts to new onshore wind farms. That sounds to me like we are going ahead fast.
2015-03-19a.880.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Karen Buck	When the Government cut the feed-in tariff for solar, we were promised a scheme that would “serve the many, not the few”. Will the Minister help us to understand why the number of households getting solar halved between 2012 and 2014?
2015-03-19a.880.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Edward Davey	I simply do not recognise the hon. Lady’s statistics. Let me give the House one statistic: 99% of the UK’s solar installations were put in under this Government. We have seen more than £11 billion invested in solar, which is a fantastic record.
2015-03-19a.880.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Gregory Barker	Without doubt, investment in low-carbon energy is booming, thanks to the bold reforms of this coalition Government and our long-term economic plan. But one of the unsung success stories of this Government has been the renewable heat incentive. Will the Secretary of State update us on just how many thousands of commercial, industrial and residential installations there now are?
2015-03-19a.880.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Edward Davey	In answering my right hon. Friend’s question, may I pay tribute to him for the role he played in this boom, particularly in the renewable heat incentive? We have seen more than 25,000 domestic installations. I cannot give him the figure for non-domestic installations, but we are seeing a big increase. Now that this renewable heat scheme has really got going, the next Parliament will need to build on our success.
2015-03-19a.880.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Julie Elliott	Every few months, the consultancy firm EY publishes its renewable energy attractiveness index. This month, the UK fell yet again. In November 2013, we were fourth in the world. In February 2014, we fell to fifth; in May 2014, to sixth; and in September 2014, to seventh. This month, the UK fell to eighth, which is a 12-year low. The Secretary of State’s sole solution to our broken energy market is telling people to switch. In order to reverse that appalling record, is it not time we switched to a Labour Government so that we can drive the investment, create the skilled jobs and produce the clean energy that our country needs to succeed?
2015-03-19a.880.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Edward Davey	The hon. Lady has scored a massive own goal. She trailed us going down the attractiveness index for future investment, but she should realise that the closer we get to the election, the more worried investors are. Members do not have to believe me about the potential threat of a Labour Government to investment; they can believe the Secretary-General of the OECD, Angel Gurria, who said that Labour’s energy price freeze could bankrupt investors. That is why the index is going in the wrong direction. The hon. Lady might also want to know that that index was prepared as a snapshot before the recent successful contracts for difference auction, which saw 27 new renewable energy plant contracts issued. This Government are seeing huge investment. The only thing that can stop that investment is the election of a Labour Government. Energy Supply Market
2015-03-19a.881.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Adam Afriyie	What recent steps he has taken to increase competition in the energy supply market.
2015-03-19a.881.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Matthew Hancock	We have made it quicker and easier for consumers to switch supplier. Now 10% of dual-fuel customers use one of the 21 independent suppliers in the domestic retail market, which provides more competition and more choice for consumers.
2015-03-19a.881.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Adam Afriyie	It really saddens me that Labour’s misunderstanding of markets meant that it backed the big energy businesses and drove the smaller ones out of operation. If we are to have a healthy energy market, it seems to me that what we need is more competition and faster switching so that consumers can enjoy lower prices and better quality services. Does my right hon. Friend agree?
2015-03-19a.881.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Matthew Hancock	My hon. Friend is completely right. We have halved the time it takes to switch. Our Power to Switch campaign is now up and running. I myself am going to switch energy supplier today as part of that campaign, and I look forward to saving serious amounts of money as a result. I urge all Members, and indeed all consumers, to consider switching, because the power of competition is one of the best ways to get energy bills down. Instead of the big six that Labour created, we now have 21 new independent suppliers.
2015-03-19a.881.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	John Robertson	It might be better if the right hon. Gentleman switched party, rather than energy supplier. Is not part of the problem with cost down to the fact that we have companies that generate electricity selling it to themselves, which allows them to hike the prices paid by consumers? People need those prices to come down in order to heat their homes. Why not just split those roles completely to ensure that we get an honest broker in the middle?
2015-03-19a.881.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Low-carbon Energy Sources	Matthew Hancock	First, we got the Competition and Markets Authority to look into that matter, because it had not been investigated under the previous Government. The CMA’s initial conclusion was that we have a competitive market at that level, so the precise detail that the hon. Gentleman sets out is not the problem. The remaining problem in the UK’s energy market is that it needs to be more competitive in order to get a better deal for customers. The last thing anybody needs is for prices to be frozen at the high levels at which Labour proposed to freeze them.
2015-03-19a.881.7	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Wayne David	What steps he is taking to help households with their energy bills.
2015-03-19a.881.8	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Susan Elan Jones	What steps he is taking to help households with their energy bills.
2015-03-19a.882.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Chris Evans	What steps he is taking to help households with their energy bills.
2015-03-19a.882.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Amber Rudd	Energy bills are a significant and important part of people’s household budgets. The Government have delivered, on average, a £50 reduction in energy bills, boosted competition in the energy market and ensured that fairer tariffs are in place. Last year alone, 3.1 million people switched energy supplier, and we are helping more consumers to save up to £200 or more through our Power to Switch campaign.
2015-03-19a.882.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Wayne David	Wholesale gas and electricity prices have fallen by some 20% over the past 12 months, yet household bills have gone down by only 5%. Is that fair, and what is the Minister going to do about it?
2015-03-19a.882.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Amber Rudd	We are taking action on that. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor led on that by calling in the big six to speak to them about it, and that was followed up by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. We have seen reductions. All I can say is thank goodness we did not have the freeze that Labour proposed in September 2013, because we would then have seen no reduction at all. We do not take anything for granted, which is why we are supporting the CMA review into the market. We eagerly await its results at the end of the year, when we can take action.
2015-03-19a.882.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Susan Elan Jones	The Ministers words will ring very hollow indeed in many of our rural communities, where people are off-grid and rely on domestic oil for heating. I ask the Minister not to quote what the price happens to be this week, because we know that, like gravity, domestic oil prices go up and down. Will she tell us why the Government have not listened to MPs from across the parties who have asked for domestic oil to be put under the regulator Ofgem?
2015-03-19a.882.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Amber Rudd	We have put in place a fuel poverty strategy, which will address some of the issues the hon. Lady raises. We are liaising with Ofgem and are encouraged by the early results from the CMA, and of course we will be taking them up further when they come through at the end of the year.
2015-03-19a.882.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Chris Evans	Despite the rosy picture that the Chancellor wanted to portray yesterday, fuel poverty in Wales has gone up by 18% since 2011, and 90,000 people with children cannot afford their energy bills. When are the Government going to take real, tangible action to fight rip-off bills from these energy companies?
2015-03-19a.882.7	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Amber Rudd	The hon. Gentleman may know that the Big Energy Saving Network is active in Wales. That is an initiative from this Department that instructs and funds third parties to go out and help people to switch and to access the warm homes discount. Yesterday in the Budget, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor announced further funding for the Big Energy Saving Network, and that will go exactly to the cause that the hon. Gentleman raises, which we care about as well.
2015-03-19a.883.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	David Heath	Following on from the question from the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) , many, many people in rural areas like mine are dependent on fuel oil or liquid petroleum gas and have seen their costs go up inexorably over recent years. Even in an unregulated market, is there any way in which the Minister can ensure that the prices now fall commensurate with the fall in oil and gas prices, and do so promptly?
2015-03-19a.883.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Amber Rudd	As the hon. Gentleman observes, the price has been falling, and we will keep a careful eye on it to make sure that it continues to fall. I would hope that it should fall at a greater rate than the major energy companies’ bills, because gas prices have been falling at a greater rate.
2015-03-19a.883.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Caroline Flint	Recently the hon. Member for Bracknell (Dr Lee) , a respected member of the Energy and Climate Change Committee, admitted that the Conservative party had no clear energy policy and had been relegated to “second fiddle”. Helpfully, he added: “If I’m honest, I don’t think we’ve done particularly well.” If Government Members do not have any confidence in their own party’s energy policy, why should the British people?
2015-03-19a.883.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Amber Rudd	I will be answering a question from my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Dr Lee) later, and I look forward to that opportunity. I think that our energy policy is absolutely clear and is delivering what we set out to do. To be honest, the lack of clarity and the chaos is only on the Opposition Benches, because we remain completely confused about the Opposition’s policy towards Ofgem, which they claim to want to amend, on the one hand, and abolish, on the other. As for the price freeze, I think I will hear about that later from my hon. Friend.
2015-03-19a.883.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Caroline Flint	I am afraid that there will be nowhere to hide in the forthcoming general election as regards the coalition parties and their energy policies. The facts speak for themselves: energy bills £300 higher; three out of four households being overcharged by their energy supplier; the number of families with children who cannot afford to heat their homes at the highest-ever level; and, as we have heard today—it has been reconfirmed—a Government who, for five years, have just told people to shop around. Does not this show that the only way to help households with their energy bills is to elect a Labour Government to freeze energy prices until 2017 while we reform the market and give the regulator the power to cut bills in time for Christmas?
2015-03-19a.883.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Household Energy Bills	Amber Rudd	That is further chaos from Labour about a cap or a freeze—we have no idea which they would do. Let me point out to the right hon. Lady that during 2013 the UK had the lowest household gas prices and the fifth lowest household electricity prices in the EU 15. In no way are we complacent about what has been achieved in helping people; that is why we back the CMA’s reforms. It is very disappointing that she does not back the CMA’s approach, which will give us an independent review that we look forward to enacting at the end of the year.
2015-03-19a.884.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Wholesale Energy Prices	Phillip Lee	What assessment he has made of the effect of recent trends in wholesale energy prices on household energy bills.
2015-03-19a.884.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Wholesale Energy Prices	Stephen Metcalfe	What assessment he has made of the effect of recent trends in wholesale energy prices on household energy bills.
2015-03-19a.884.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Wholesale Energy Prices	Amber Rudd	All the major suppliers have announced reductions to their standard variable gas tariffs in recent weeks in response to reductions in the wholesale gas price. The price of fixed-term deals has continued to fall, with the cheapest deal on the market £100 cheaper than the cheapest deal a year ago. The Competition and Markets Authority has made it clear that it will be looking further at the relationship between wholesale costs and retail prices as part of its investigation.
2015-03-19a.884.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Wholesale Energy Prices	Phillip Lee	I thank the Minister for her reply. The news about prices and bills is all very welcome, but does she agree that the next Conservative Government—as I hope and expect it will be—should concentrate primarily on energy efficiency? This would bear down on household bills and, indeed, bills for businesses, while also conserving our planet’s finite resources and helping to secure this great nation’s energy supplies in future.
2015-03-19a.884.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Wholesale Energy Prices	Amber Rudd	On this account, my hon. Friend is absolutely right: energy efficiency is indeed the best way to help people and that is why it has been a Government priority for the past few years. He is also absolutely right that the benefit is not only in keeping bills down, but in conserving our resources.
2015-03-19a.884.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Wholesale Energy Prices	Stephen Metcalfe	Is my hon. Friend as surprised as I am that the Labour party is still pursuing its policy of a price freeze? If a price is frozen at a high level, surely the danger is that when the market settles at a lower level, my constituents will end up paying more than they are now.
2015-03-19a.884.7	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Wholesale Energy Prices	Mr Speaker	Order. The Minister must not be led astray, away from the path of virtue, by her hon. Friend. She will know that she must not talk about the policies of the Labour party. Her responsibility is with the policy of the Government. A brief and pithy reply on that matter would be in order, but nothing beyond.
2015-03-19a.884.8	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Wholesale Energy Prices	Amber Rudd	Thank you for that guidance, Mr Speaker. My hon. Friend makes an excellent point, revealing the confusion being caused among his constituents. I hope they will make the right interpretation and support him and this Government in the future.
2015-03-19a.884.9	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Wholesale Energy Prices	Barry Gardiner	The drop in wholesale energy prices has allowed Governments around the world—including India, Indonesia and Egypt—to reduce the subsidies to fossil fuels in a way that is commensurate with the proposals of the United Nations framework convention on climate change and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. However, in yesterday’s Budget the Chancellor gave a £1.3 billion subsidy to our fossil fuel industries. What does the Minister make of that paradox?
2015-03-19a.885.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Wholesale Energy Prices	Amber Rudd	The hon. Gentleman, who is well respected in this area, should identify the difference between taxation and subsidy. The point of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor’s announcement yesterday is that North sea oil is an important part of our industry and employment. We still feel there is more to be done in the extractive industries and we should support them despite the fall in oil prices.
2015-03-19a.885.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Renewable Energy	Peter Lilley	What assessment he has made of the effect on (a) generating capacity and (b) the transmission network of an increased resilience on intermittent energy supplied by renewable sources.
2015-03-19a.885.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Renewable Energy	Matthew Hancock	Electricity generation always needs to balance supply and demand. The transmission system clearly has to change to accommodate expanding renewables, and Ofgem’s new framework will help that happen.
2015-03-19a.885.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Renewable Energy	Peter Lilley	I note that my right hon. Friend does not give any costs for the extra capacity required for when the wind does not blow or the sun does not shine and the extra transmission lines required to transmit from long distance. Will he confirm that those costs are not included in the £7.6 billion levy control framework, despite the fact that the former power director of the National Grid puts them at £5 billion a year? If they were included, the potential total cost of all the subsidies could be £500 per household per annum.
2015-03-19a.885.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Renewable Energy	Matthew Hancock	The levy control framework specifically controls the amount of direct subsidy, but a whole series of changes need to happen to make sure that our transmission system can keep up with the distribution of energy supply as well as the demand. That includes changes to interconnectors—in other words, getting more of them—and making sure that we have a smarter grid and distribution system. It is difficult at this stage to calculate the cost of those changes.
2015-03-19a.885.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Renewable Energy	Tim Yeo	Does my right hon. Friend agree that one very effective way to address the issues raised by intermittency from renewable generation is greater use of demand-side management, which is both cost-effective and environmentally attractive? As we get more sophisticated in our use of demand response, the balance can be maintained even with intermittent peaks and troughs in generation.
2015-03-19a.885.7	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Renewable Energy	Matthew Hancock	I pay tribute to the huge expertise of my parliamentary neighbour, who will step down from this House next week, in this area. He has reminded me of something I should have said in my previous answer, which is to include demand-side response as one of the many ways in which we need to help manage the transmission system with more renewables on the grid.
2015-03-19a.885.8	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Renewable Energy	Tom Greatrex	According to National Grid, on 26 December less than 1% of power generated into the national grid in Scotland came from wind, meaning that electricity generated south of the border and the doubling of output from the coal-fired Longannet power station in Fife kept our lights on. The Minister will be aware that Iberdrola, the Spanish owner of ScottishPower, which operates Longannet, has decided not to invest to make it compliant with the industrial emissions directive and is now threatening to announce the closure of that power station next week, jeopardising hundreds of skilled jobs. Given Iberdrola’s public statements, what discussions has the Minister had with the Spanish power company or National Grid about the implications of potential closure?
2015-03-19a.886.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Renewable Energy	Matthew Hancock	We have of course considered the implications of the closure of any major power plant. Alongside National Grid, we continually assess the security of supply risks across Great Britain, including in Scotland. We are confident that we have the tools to address any issues at Longannet and any other fossil fuel plant that may close. We will ensure that the procedures and policies are always put in place to make sure that the supplies of energy are secure.
2015-03-19a.886.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Renewable Energy	Tom Greatrex	I thank the Minister for that reply, but he will be aware that various public claims have been made by or on behalf of Iberdrola ScottishPower about the impact of closure on both security of supply and group resilience, and that National Grid has rejected those claims. What assessment has his Department made of the claims and their implications? Given the conflicting statements made in the public domain, will he publish the assessment and advice so that the veracity of the claims and counterclaims can be properly tested?
2015-03-19a.886.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Renewable Energy	Matthew Hancock	I have looked in detail at the claims, and they are not correct. National Grid’s assessment is that the closure of Longannet is not a threat to the security of supply. I think that we should trust the assessment of the transmission grid operator, rather than that of an individual company playing one small part in the operation. I will of course look at what we can publish to make those reassurances yet more concrete.
2015-03-19a.886.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Unconventional Oil and Gas Exploration	Anne McIntosh	What recent representations he has received on the application of regulations on onshore unconventional oil and gas exploration; and if he will make a statement.
2015-03-19a.886.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Unconventional Oil and Gas Exploration	Matthew Hancock	We receive a wide variety of representations on onshore unconventional oil and gas, and we always listen carefully to the views expressed.
2015-03-19a.886.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Unconventional Oil and Gas Exploration	Anne McIntosh	The current regulations that apply to unconventional oil and gas exploration onshore have not yet been properly tried and tested. The protections given to national parks, sites of special scientific interest and areas of outstanding natural beauty were withdrawn in the Lords. Given that the regulations will not be published until July, what is the legal position on protections in or under national parks as regards any application that may be submitted this month?
2015-03-19a.887.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Unconventional Oil and Gas Exploration	Matthew Hancock	The legal protections are in the Infrastructure Act 2015, which my hon. Friend played a role in shaping as it went through this House. I want to pay tribute to her for her long service in this House for her constituents: she has been unending in her determination to support them. I would say that anybody looking to propose a development of unconventional oil and gas ought to act as though the provisions of the Infrastructure Act were in place. There will be a period before they are formally implemented, but we need to ensure that development continues in the assured and careful manner provided for in the Act.
2015-03-19a.887.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Policy (Regional Devolution)	Barry Sheerman	What assessment he has made of the potential merits of devolving energy policy to a regional level.
2015-03-19a.887.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Policy (Regional Devolution)	Matthew Hancock	We are proposing further devolution to Scotland and Wales consistent with the need for an efficient and good-value energy system throughout Great Britain.
2015-03-19a.887.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Policy (Regional Devolution)	Barry Sheerman	Is it not high time that the regions of the United Kingdom had a chance to have some power over energy policy? Yorkshire in particular, with its offshore wind power and its other resources, knows a lot about energy. Does not all the evidence show that if we grass-root energy policy, even at a community level, and give people ownership of it, perhaps through social systems of ownership, it works better? Taking energy policy down to the grass roots binds people into a good policy.
2015-03-19a.887.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Policy (Regional Devolution)	Matthew Hancock	No matter how great a county Yorkshire is—it is, indeed, a great county— [ Interruption. ] —we need to make sure that the system works on a GB-wide basis and that it is as efficient as possible. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the ability to access distribution networks and indeed the wider grid to ensure that those producing electricity can connect to nearby demand will enhance the ability of communities to play a part. I can see where he is going, but I am not sure that breaking up the GB-wide energy system is the best way to reach a solution.
2015-03-19a.887.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Energy Policy (Regional Devolution)	Mr Speaker	I note that a Lancastrian Whip blurted out what might be described as a competitive chant when the right hon. Gentleman was hailing the merits of Yorkshire, but I will not draw any further attention to the matter.
2015-03-19a.887.8	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Tidal Power	Paul Flynn	What support his Department plans to provide to the development of the proposed tidal lagoon project near Newport.
2015-03-19a.887.9	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Tidal Power	Edward Davey	I can confirm that the Government have announced that we are entering into a negotiation on a contract for difference for the Swansea bay lagoon to decide whether the project is affordable and represents value for money. I am strongly in favour of a tidal programme across the UK, subject to the usual planning permissions and to the lessons from the first project or projects being learned. Given that planning permissions are site-specific, the hon. Gentleman will understand that I cannot give a view on the Newport project.
2015-03-19a.888.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Tidal Power	Paul Flynn	The belated recognition by the Government of the enormous advantages of tidal power is very welcome. They should examine what has been taking place for the past 50 years at La Rance in Brittany, where the cheapest electricity in the world is being generated. Will the Secretary of State look at the other schemes? The schemes at Newport are far better value than the Swansea scheme. However, we all give a warm welcome to the Government’s recognition that tidal power is a British, eternal, clean, non-carbon and entirely predictable energy source.
2015-03-19a.888.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Tidal Power	Edward Davey	I think this is the first time that the hon. Gentleman and I have been in agreement on energy policy, so I would like to mark the occasion. He is right that tidal lagoon power presents a huge opportunity for this country. The Department is looking at it in detail. I hope that it will produce not only the clean energy that we need, but the green jobs that are so important in many parts of the country.
2015-03-19a.888.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Solar Energy	Pauline Latham	What steps he is taking to encourage businesses to install solar energy panels.
2015-03-19a.888.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Solar Energy	Edward Davey	The solar PV strategy, which we published last spring, sets out how we are maximising the deployment of panels on commercial and industrial buildings. We have taken a range of actions to assist owners of such buildings to deploy solar PV panels. To name just a few, we have consulted on allowing the transfer of panels without the loss of feed-in tariff accreditation; we have made changes to the feed-in tariff to protect the incentive for building mounted solar; and we are working with the property sector to remove other barriers to deployment.
2015-03-19a.888.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Solar Energy	Pauline Latham	Vaillant in my constituency is a shining example in this area. It is energy efficient because it has so many solar panels. Does my right hon. Friend acknowledge that after 13 years of Labour, just 6.8% of British electricity came from renewables, whereas since 2010, renewables generation has more than doubled?
2015-03-19a.888.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Solar Energy	Edward Davey	The hon. Lady is absolutely right. Renewable electricity generation has more than doubled. In fact, it has gone up by 165% in just a short time. Solar has played a key role in that.
2015-03-19a.888.8	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Tidal Power	Kerry McCarthy	What recent assessment he has made of the merits of proposals for the generation of electricity from tidal lagoons.
2015-03-19a.888.9	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Tidal Power	Edward Davey	I am delighted that we are back on tidal power. My considered view is that tidal energy has many merits: it is clean, renewable, predictable, home-grown and secure. Tidal lagoons can be built in numerous places in the UK and have the potential to meet up to 8% of our electricity needs. Tidal lagoon costs could fall significantly in the next decade, as larger, more cost-effective projects are deployed. With tidal lagoons having the potential to last 120 years, this is a future green energy technology that I hope all parties will strongly support.— [ Interruption. ]
2015-03-19a.889.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Tidal Power	Kerry McCarthy	My hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) is claiming the credit for most of the Secretary of State’s answer. I share my hon. Friend’s enthusiasm for the prospects for tidal power in the Severn estuary. When does the Minister expect the strike price to be agreed, which will help to spur the full commercialisation of the sector? Does he share the concern of organisations such as Citizens Advice that the current strike price for tidal lagoon power is more expensive than that for any major green energy project to date?
2015-03-19a.889.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Tidal Power	Edward Davey	The negotiations with the Tidal Lagoon Power company are bilateral, so they will set the strike price over months and we cannot give an exact timetable on how long they will take. I read the CAB report, but it was not as informed as it might have been. The first tidal lagoon power plant, which will be the world’s first, is likely to be a bit more expensive, just as when the UK had the first offshore wind farm it was a bit more expensive. Unless we invest in new technologies, we will not get the costs down. We have seen the costs of solar tumble. We have seen the costs of offshore wind tumble. We have seen the costs of onshore wind tumble. That has only happened because we have invested in new technology. That is the way that Britain—a world leader—should go.
2015-03-19a.889.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Tidal Power	Mr Speaker	Untypically, we are ahead of time and can proceed with dispatch to Topical Questions.
2015-03-19a.889.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Kerry McCarthy	If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
2015-03-19a.889.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	Since the last oral questions to the Department of Energy and Climate Change, the first auction of low-carbon contracts for difference was completed. I was able to offer contracts for 27 new renewable power plants, including 15 onshore wind farms, two offshore wind farms, and five solar farms. The auction saw onshore wind prices fall by 17%, and offshore wind farm prices by 18%. Today I will publish the first annual update to our country’s first ever community energy strategy. That shows real progress in everything from district heating policy to grid connections, and from state aid clearance for the Green Investment Bank to lend to that sector, to our new water source heat map. As this is the final DECC oral questions of this Parliament, I thank you, Mr Speaker, my Ministers and officials, Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition, and all right hon. and hon. Members for their help and advice—most of the time. The UK is now achieving on all our energy and climate change objectives, and I believe it is leading Europe on the path to a climate change treaty in Paris this December.
2015-03-19a.890.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Kerry McCarthy	I thank the Minister for that response. The community energy stuff will go down well in Bristol, which is European green capital of the year, as I think I have mentioned in every DECC questions. Although we welcome the measures in the Budget, what does the Secretary of State plan to do to diversify skills in the North sea towards low-carbon and renewable technologies, given that the North sea is a mostly mature basin? Does he agree that we need a long-term transition plan for places that are currently heavily reliant on the oil and gas industry?
2015-03-19a.890.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	We are seeing a huge amount of activity in the North sea for offshore wind, and the beginnings for carbon capture and storage. About 18 months ago I brought together representatives from the oil and gas industry with representatives from the renewable industry working in the North sea. We need them to work together, particularly on issues such as regulation and the way infrastructure will develop. We need a longer-term plan, and we have been kicking that work off.
2015-03-19a.890.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Matthew Offord	Will the Minister confirm to the House that it is not the policy of this Government, or indeed the next Conservative Government, to freeze energy prices just as the wholesale market starts to reduce in price?
2015-03-19a.890.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Matthew Hancock	Absolutely. It is not the policy of the Government to freeze energy bills, not least at the level they were 18 months ago when we first received representations to do that. We have not chosen that path because we would end up with millions of consumers paying an average of £100 more for their electricity, and we would undermine investment, which is so critically needed, in the future of our energy system. It is a bad mistake and we will not do it.
2015-03-19a.890.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Caroline Flint	I join the Secretary of State in thanking you, Mr Speaker, and others. Thursdays have become the ticket to have in questions, and there is no doubt that over the past four years energy has been front and centre of pretty much every debate across the policy range. I wish those on the Government Front Bench a happy retirement. On a serious note, the devastation wrought by Cyclone Pam in Vanuatu has reminded us that climate change is a national security threat, not just overseas but in Britain. It is vital that the UK plays a leading role to secure a binding global agreement to tackle climate change at the Paris conference later this year. Does the Secretary of State agree that we will secure influence abroad only if we show leadership at home, and will he reaffirm his support for Labour’s Climate Change Act 2008?
2015-03-19a.890.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	I am grateful to the right hon. Lady who makes a serious point about the impact of climate change on some of the most vulnerable people on our planet. We need to lead in the world, as indeed we are doing. She will also know that not only the Liberal Democrats but the Prime Minister, on behalf of the Conservative party, and the Leader of the Opposition recently signed a letter to confirm their support for the Climate Change Act 2008. That had huge consensus across the House— [ Interruption. ] As the right hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Mr Lilley) notes, five people voted against it, and nine Members also voted against the Energy Act 2013, which I put through the House and is the practical way of delivering on the Climate Change Act 2008. It is important that the world understands that across the parties there is a lot of agreement on this issue.
2015-03-19a.891.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Adam Afriyie	In my constituency, we have seen some dreadful flooding over the last decade, and I wanted to rise to thank the Department for making available the funds to complete the lower Thames flood alleviation scheme, which will save tens of thousands of homes and thousands of businesses and really help my constituents have a better quality of life with greater economic outcomes.
2015-03-19a.891.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	rose—
2015-03-19a.891.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	Order. I am tempted to think that that would ordinarily be a matter for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, but if ingeniously the Secretary of State can contrive to fashion a response that relates to his own important responsibilities, and if he can give us what he described a few moments ago as his “considered view”, the nation will be enriched.
2015-03-19a.891.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	Mr Speaker, you are just too kind. The Government, whether the lead has been taken by a different Department, such as DEFRA, or another Department, have done their best to deal with flooding issues. I speak as one of the Ministers with responsibility for flooding. We have done a lot of work in the south of London to assist with this matter, including on aspects of the Thames flood alleviation, but the real issue for me, as Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, is that if we do not tackle climate change, this country will be badly hit by more flooding. We can build the flood defences we need, but in the long term if we are to reduce the cost of climate change to this country we need to tackle climate change itself.
2015-03-19a.891.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Chris Evans	Over the last five years, one of the biggest problems, particularly for elderly constituents of mine, has been complicated, high-tariff energy bills. On 17 occasions, the Prime Minister has said he would force energy companies by law to put their customers on the lowest energy tariff, but three out of four households are still on energy tariffs that cost on average £180 more than the lowest one. What are the Government going to do about that?
2015-03-19a.891.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	We inherited an energy market that was completely broken and a situation where energy bills were complicated and opaque, but we and the independent energy regulator, Ofgem, have acted. We now have simpler bills, fewer tariffs and increased levels of switching, which is helping huge numbers of people. On the specific point the hon. Gentleman raises, Ofgem, in its retail market review, proposed the policy he refers to and is making sure it goes through, but if he has examples suggesting that any suppliers are not delivering on that new regulation, he should bring them to the independent regulator’s attention.
2015-03-19a.892.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Peter Lilley	Does my right hon. Friend agree that the single biggest boost to the British and world economy has been the halving of the oil price, and does it not follow that forcing British industry to use energy that costs twice as much as conventional energy will have a depressive effect on the British economy? Why oh why is he insisting on our moving to wind, which costs twice as much, and this Swansea tidal power, which, according to the Financial Times , will involve a price three times that of conventional fuels for 35 years? Is that not going to depress the British and Welsh economies?
2015-03-19a.892.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	I have a lot of respect for the right hon. Gentleman, who is known for his intellectual abilities and knowledge, but I am afraid that on this occasion they have failed him, and for this reason: we do not use oil to produce electricity—we haven’t for a long time. His point relates to transport. Oil is a substitute for transport fuels. I think he is talking about gas, but the price of gas has not come down by very much. Moreover, the fall in the price of gas was taken account of in the way we produced the levy control framework, which is the support for low-carbon electricity.
2015-03-19a.892.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Chi Onwurah	Earlier this month, I spoke at North East Call to Action’s time to act day, which brought together organisations and people from across the region who wanted the UK to lead in combating climate change through decarbonisation and to build a long-term sustainable economy based on clean energy, green technology and skilled jobs. When I reminded them of the Prime Minister’s promise that this should be the “greenest Government ever”, there was widespread laughter. Why does the Secretary of State think that was?
2015-03-19a.892.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	Because some people have not looked at the facts. This is the greenest Government ever, but as I have said— [Interruption.] Well, we have seen massive increases in low-carbon energy and a big increase in energy efficiency, so I am afraid that the hon. Lady is completely wrong. Let me explain why some people laugh. It is because the bar for being the greenest Government was not very high—the last lot did such an appalling job. I want to make sure that if Liberal Democrats are in the next Government, it will be the greenest Government by a long way, which is why we have published proposals for five green Bills. We need to build on the success of this Government and go a lot further.
2015-03-19a.892.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Philip Hollobone	By when does the renewable energies Minister think it might be possible to generate solar energy without subsidy?
2015-03-19a.892.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Amber Rudd	Solar energy has been a great success under this Government. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State pointed out, 99% of solar energy developments have taken place under this Government, not least because of the great boost given by my right hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker) , who put together the solar strategy in 2014, for which we are very grateful. The great news about solar energy is that it is likely to become subsidy-free in the next five years. That will be a classic example of investing in renewable energy and making sure that, as it increases, it becomes subsidy-free.
2015-03-19a.893.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Ian Lavery	Hundreds of jobs are still waiting on a state aid application from UK Coal. The Minister promised an announcement would be made before the Dissolution of Parliament. Will he confirm when it will take place and whether it will be before the Dissolution?
2015-03-19a.893.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Matthew Hancock	This is an important issue for the two coal mines owned by UK Coal—two of the three remaining deep coal mines. I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman, who has been steadfast and hard working in delivering on this issue. There will absolutely be a decision before the Dissolution of Parliament.
2015-03-19a.893.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Duncan Hames	I warmly welcome the Government’s commitment to expanding renewable energy generation, but does the Minister agree that we should not tolerate the payment of renewables obligation certificates or feed-in tariffs to unlawful developments?
2015-03-19a.893.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Matthew Hancock	Yes.
2015-03-19a.893.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	John Robertson	The Secretary of State will be well aware that he promised me at the last Question Time that he would come back to me on the report on vulnerable customers that I produced with the Energy and Climate Change Select Committee. Is this going to be another one of the Government’s unfulfilled promises, or will he come forward as soon as possible with a reply to this important report on how to ensure that vulnerable people will be taken care of when they most need help?
2015-03-19a.893.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman asked that question. He knows that I have read the report, because I have talked to him about it. I have told him in this Chamber that I wanted to respond to it. I thought that the reply had winged its way to him. If it has not, I shall chase it up. Let me say to him and the House that I read his report and thought it was very good.
2015-03-19a.893.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Martin Vickers	I recently met senior management at the Phillips 66 refinery in my constituency. The refinery has the lowest per barrel SO2 emissions in the country, but it fears that the continuing demands of the industrial emissions directive will increase costs with little benefit to the environment. Does the Minister share my concerns, and what action is he taking to protect the industry and the jobs?
2015-03-19a.893.7	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Matthew Hancock	It is important to ensure that we have clean emissions and that we abide by our international obligations. None the less, I am looking forward to my visit to Cleethorpes and the refinery to see the impact for myself and to make sure that, locally, whatever changes need to be made will be implemented as carefully as possible.
2015-03-19a.894.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Graeme Morrice	An elderly constituent recently contacted me about her confusing energy bills. She had to make a payment, but the complicated bill structure meant that she had no idea how the charges had been calculated, causing her some distress. It is obvious that Ofgem’s reforms to make bills simpler, clearer and fairer have not worked. Is it not about time that the Government started to stand up for consumers and treat ordinary people fairly and honestly by ensuring improved transparency in energy bills?
2015-03-19a.894.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	I am surprised to hear the hon. Gentleman make that point. There has been a great improvement in bills, which are much simpler now. Furthermore, the energy suppliers must now inform consumers if a lower tariff is available, even if it involves different payment methods. However, if there is an issue I shall be happy to look into it. and the hon. Gentleman should also contact Ofgem. One of our purposes in setting up and investing in the Big Energy Saving Network was to ensure that vulnerable people could obtain face-to-face advice, and organisations such as citizens advice bureaux, Age Concern and National Energy Action are funded and trained to deliver that advice.
2015-03-19a.894.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Tim Yeo	A few minutes ago, my right hon. Friend the Minister of State gave a very helpful answer to a question about demand-side response. In support of the Government’s fully justified claim to be the “greenest Government ever”, which I congratulate them on achieving, may I press him a little further? Is he aware that some people in the demand-side management industry are worried about the way in which the capacity market auction operated just before Christmas, and will he undertake to look into exactly how it is working in good time before the next auction, with the aim of establishing a level playing field between different types of demand?
2015-03-19a.894.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Matthew Hancock	I met representatives of the demand-side response industry in the autumn. I can give a commitment that we will review the way in which the market operates before the next auction, which we expect to take place this autumn. May I take this opportunity to pay tribute to the Secretary of State? Although we are members of different parties, we have worked extremely closely, and I think that he has been a terrific Secretary of State. His support for the nuclear industry has been revolutionary, not least in his own party; his support for market-based solutions to renewable subsidies has been first-rate; and his support for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor’s proposal for a Swansea bay tidal lagoon has been exemplary. It has been a pleasure to work with him, and I wish him all the best.
2015-03-19a.894.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Barry Sheerman	You will know, Mr Speaker, that I hate to be the curmudgeon at the party, but I must inform the Secretary of State that, according to findings published this morning by the Leeds university research team, we have entirely failed to meet proper carbon emission reduction targets, and must redouble our efforts if we are going to take account of all the goods that we import from China and other parts of the world.
2015-03-19a.895.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	The hon. Gentleman has clearly not read the report, and he has clearly not read what the Chair of the Energy and Climate Change Committee, and indeed Greenpeace, has said about it. Not only are we more than meeting our carbon emission reduction targets, but, as the hon. Gentleman will see if he reads the report, there are different ways of accounting—we have made that point a number of times—and we are accounting in the way that is internationally recognised. If the hon. Gentleman wants to change that system on the eve of climate change talks, he must be completely barmy.
2015-03-19a.895.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Gregory Barker	Does the Minister agree that, when the history of the coalition comes to be written, the Department of Energy and Climate Change will be seen as outstanding in terms of effectiveness and impact, and as a cut-out example of two parties, Conservative and Liberal Democrat, coming together to govern in the national interest? In that context, may I also pay tribute to the terrific leadership of the Secretary of State, his effective ministerial team, and the brilliant officials— [Interruption.]
2015-03-19a.895.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	Order. I must say to the House, in response to a sedentary interjection from an Opposition Member, that the use of the word “barmy” is a matter of taste rather than order.
2015-03-19a.895.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	Talking of taste, Mr Speaker, I thought that the question from my right hon. Friend for Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker) was very tasteful, and that he made a very sensible point. I am grateful to him. I think it is clear that, although there are some differences between us on some aspects of energy policy such as onshore wind, the two parties have been able to work together in the country’s interest to achieve our objective of providing affordable, secure, green energy. I am grateful to the Minister of State for what he said earlier, although he did make me laugh when he claimed that the Chancellor was the force behind the tidal lagoon.
2015-03-19a.895.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Kelvin Hopkins	What discussions has the Secretary of State had with the Chancellor about the damage that could be caused to community energy co-operatives by the proposed exclusion of co-operatives from future tax allowance schemes?
2015-03-19a.895.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	We have discussed the matter extensively with the Treasury, and we have introduced something called social investment tax relief. It is better than its predecessor, because it gives community energy companies tax relief not just on equity finance but on debt finance, thus expanding the instruments. There is an issue concerning which types of organisation should be able to claim the tax relief. The whole purpose of supporting community energy is to support schemes that give real benefits to the community, and energy co-operatives do not necessarily do that, although they benefit their membership. However, we have been working with the community energy sector as well as the Treasury, and I think that if the hon. Gentleman reads today’s update, he will see that we have come up with a very effective solution.
2015-03-19a.896.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Andrew Gwynne	Before the last election the Prime Minister, when he was Leader of the Opposition, said: “I think we all feel that when the gas prices or the oil prices go up, they rush to pass the costs onto us and yet when we read in the papers that the oil price has collapsed…we wait for a very long time before we see anything coming through on our bills, and I think the first thing you’ve got to do...is give the regulator the teeth to order that those reductions are made and that is what we would do.” Why did he break that promise?
2015-03-19a.896.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Matthew Hancock	That is exactly what is happening. At that time, in 2009, when the Leader of the Opposition was the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, nothing happened: bills did not come down and the Secretary of State did not lift a finger. Instead, this time I called in the big six and as a result they cut prices: they cut prices to pass on in full the wholesale reductions, and consumers benefit in a way that they could not if the energy price had been frozen at the high level suggested by Labour.
2015-03-19a.896.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Barry Gardiner	At the Paris negotiations the central words will be “common but differentiated,” and while I entirely agree with the Secretary of State’s response on the subject of consumption emissions, does he accept that consumption emissions will play into that debate about common but differentiated responsibilities?
2015-03-19a.896.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Edward Davey	I have met a range of climate change negotiators, particularly the Chinese negotiator Minister Xie, and interestingly they have never raised that issue. They have raised many other issues, but they have never raised that specific one, so it would be a first for the negotiations. There are other issues that we need to focus on, however, and we set out our position in a publication last September.
2015-03-19a.896.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-19a.896.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Topical Questions	Mr Speaker	Order. I think we will leave it there. I am sorry to disappoint remaining colleagues, but we have quite a lot to get through.
2015-03-19a.897.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Andy Burnham	(Urgent Question) : To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on Barts Health NHS Trust being placed into special measures.
2015-03-19a.897.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	The NHS Trust Development Authority announced on Tuesday 17 March that Barts Health would be placed into special measures. This followed a report by the Care Quality Commission which rated services at the Barts Health site at Whipps Cross as inadequate. As a result of this decision the trust will receive a package of tailored support to help it rapidly make the necessary improvements for patients. This will include the appointment of an improvement director and the opportunity to partner with a high-performing trust. The chief inspector of hospitals has highlighted the scale of the challenge ahead and this is an opportunity to ensure that the trust has the extra support it needs to meet that challenge. Barts Health has already announced that it has begun to strengthen management arrangements at Whipps Cross, in response to concerns raised by the CQC. We make no apology for the fact that, under the new rigorous inspection regime led by the chief inspector of hospitals, if a hospital is not performing as it should, the public will be told. If a hospital is providing inadequate care and we do not have confidence in the ability of its leadership to make the required improvements without intensive support, it will be put into special measures. It will remain in special measures until it is able it to reach the quality standards that patients rightly expect. While the trust is in special measures, it will receive increased support and intensive oversight to help it address its specific failings. This process is publicly transparent, so patients and the public can see and track for themselves, online through the NHS Choices website, the progress that their trusts are making. Any changes or additional support required for the trust leadership are put in place early on in the improvement process, as has already taken place at Barts Health. The expectation is that an NHS trust or foundation trust will be re-inspected by the CQC within 12 months of being placed in special measures. It is the job of the chief inspector of hospitals to recommend when a trust is ready to exit special measures. The NHS TDA or Monitor will then formally decide to take the trust out of special measures when it considers the trust is able to sustain the quality of care at the level patients rightly expect.
2015-03-19a.897.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Andy Burnham	Barts Health NHS Trust is no ordinary hospital trust: it is the largest NHS trust in England, employing more than 14,000 staff and treating patients from all over London and indeed the whole country. Importantly, it is also one of the few trusts directly managed by the Trust Development Authority and the Department of Health. Is it not true that the problems at Whipps Cross have been known for some time and have not just been uncovered this week? Is it not also true that these problems have been allowed to get worse over the past two years, with 208 serious incidents in the last year alone, and that specific warnings have not been acted on? Given all this, is it not a cause for real concern that this trust has become the 20th to be placed in special measures under this Government? People in east London need to know why, and what is being done to bring their hospital back up to an acceptable standard. Does the Minister accept that, given the seriousness of this issue, they are entitled to be disappointed that the Secretary of State is not here today to respond to these concerns? One of the report’s main conclusions is that the root cause of care problems in the past two years was the reorganisation of the trusts in 2013. It states that “the decision…to remove 220 posts across the trust and down band several hundred more nursing staff had a significant impact on staff morale and has stretched staffing levels in many areas”. These findings raise significant questions for the Department and Ministers. Given that it is a directly managed trust, was a proper assessment made of the reorganisation plans, and was it signed off by Ministers? Why did Ministers overrule the Co-operation and Competition Panel, which advised against the proposed merger and warned of material costs to patients? What action did the TDA, the Department and Ministers take on the warnings raised at the time? The Minister will know that my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead (John Cryer) —I am afraid he has a constituency engagement this morning; otherwise, he would have been here—and, as I understand it, her Cabinet colleague the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith) , raised specific concerns about the decision to remove the management structure from Whipps Cross Hospital, concerns echoed by my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) . Why were those concerns ignored, leaving Whipps Cross without an adequate management structure? Looking ahead, can the Minister say more about what is now being done to improve management at Whipps Cross, and to reassure local people that their hospital is safe? What immediate steps are being taken to improve staff numbers? On finance, is she aware that the bill for agency staff across the trust has gone up by a huge 44% in the last year alone, and what is she doing to bring that down? It is unsustainable and unaffordable, but it is also damaging standards of patient care on the ward and continuity of care. The inspection took place in November. Why was it published only this week—one day before the Budget? Given that this is about a failure of NHS management, why is the Department of Health still sitting on the report by Lord Rose on NHS management? Will the Minister give a firm commitment to this House today that it will be published before Parliament is dissolved? This report has been widely described as the worst assessment ever seen from the CQC. It will be seen as a symbol of the decline of the NHS on this Government’s watch, and people are looking now, today, for an urgent plan to turn things around.
2015-03-19a.898.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	The whole House will have noted that the right hon. Gentleman asked why the report has only just come out. He might reflect on his own time in office, when there were reports that did not come out at all just before the general election. If there is any better example of weaponising the NHS—we have just seen it. Instead of trying to make political capital, should the right hon. Gentleman not admit that the new CQC inspection regime illustrates exactly why transparency is so important, and why this Government were right to implement it? Under the previous Government, failures of care were swept under the carpet and not acted on, which led to the tragic consequences we know about. Before the last general election, Labour tried to block the publication of a devastating report into Basildon and Thurrock hospital. [ Interruption. ] These are serious matters, and that is exactly why the CQC inspection has to be taken seriously. As I have said, local management is looking at these important issues, some of which we have debated before in the House, and which need to be addressed very seriously. However, the hospital management are beginning to do that, and they must take such action to ensure that they bring care up to the right standards. All the things that the CQC has identified have to be addressed. As I have said, this illustrates exactly why the new CQC inspection regime is so important. Even now, a week before Parliament dissolves before the general election, this Government are committed, without fear or favour, to transparency and to bringing out this report. We are committed to ensuring that we put into the public domain the measures that need to be taken to put that hospital back on track and to ensuring that its patients can have confidence in the safety of its operation.
2015-03-19a.899.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jeremy Lefroy	This is a very serious matter, and it is extremely important that it should be brought to the House. I am pleased that the Francis report on Mid Staffordshire resulted in the appointment of a chief inspector of hospitals, which has led to the production of reports such as this, but does the Minister agree that this case highlights the vital importance of having proper safety systems within each health and social care provider, as is proposed in the Health and Social Care (Safety and Quality) Bill, which is now going through the House of Lords with the support of the Opposition and the Government? Will she ask the CQC to ensure that each hospital and social and health care provider that it inspects has such safety systems in place and that that includes management systems, to ensure that the providers cannot make cuts that would put patient safety at risk?
2015-03-19a.899.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s remarkable work in this Parliament on campaigning for transparency in patient safety. He is exactly right to say that these are important features of the inspection regime. As I have said, work has already begun to strengthen the management arrangements at Whipps Cross, but he is right to say that patient safety must be the predominant concern of the management when they come to address failings such as these.
2015-03-19a.899.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Stella Creasy	Whipps Cross is my local hospital. I have been a patient there and my family have been patients there, as have friends and neighbours. I join the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith) and my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead (John Cryer) in being horrified at what I am sure they would see as the Minister’s insulting response to this issue. She is playing politics with the hospital that serves our community. We all want to put on record our support for the patients and staff who spoke out and demanded that the CQC should come back to the hospital, despite the assurances from the management and the Government that all was well there. They were begging the CQC to return to look again at Whipps Cross, and when we read the report, we can see that they have been vindicated. The lead inspector has rightly expressed his concern that front-line staff will feel even more demoralised following the report, and that their welfare needs to be our priority. What assurances can the Minister give me that, rather than playing party politics, she will listen to the inspectors and heed that warning?
2015-03-19a.900.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	The hon. Lady is quite right to say that patients would be concerned, but they should also be reassured that this inspection regime has exposed some of the issues, and now is the time for them to be addressed adequately. The additional support that the trust will receive as part of the special measures is part of what will help it to make the necessary improvements for patients. The chief inspector of hospitals has highlighted the scale of the challenge ahead, but this is an opportunity to ensure that the trust has the extra support to meet that challenge. That is exactly why the regime exists— [ Interruption. ] I am sure that, like me, the hon. Lady will have been concerned to read of the culture of bullying and low morale, which is not acceptable. Part of the transparency regime that this Government have put in place involves ensuring that staff can speak out, and I am glad that some of them did. It is never acceptable for staff to feel unable to speak out on the issue of poor care, so I am glad that this report has given them the chance to voice their concerns. Those concerns must now be properly addressed.
2015-03-19a.900.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Matthew Offord	The House will be reassured by the Minister’s coming to the House today to make this statement and taking this early opportunity to highlight these issues. [Hon. Members: “What? She was dragged here!”] I am sure you would agree, Mr Speaker, that the Minister stands head and shoulders above those who failed to do anything during their time in office to ensure patient safety.
2015-03-19a.900.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	I thank my hon. Friend for that— [ Interruption. ] We are hearing a lot of chuntering from a sedentary position, but I refer the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) , who asked the urgent question, to a quote from Roger Davidson, former head of media at the CQC, who said in evidence to the Francis inquiry that “there were conversations between the CQC and ministers to the effect that the CQC would not cause any trouble in the run up to purdah. The message that we don't want bad news infected the whole organisation.” However much of a small discomfort it might be to Ministers to come and answer an urgent question on such an important matter for patients, people should be reassured that it is far more important that these issues come out transparently, whatever the timing, even if it is ahead of a general election.
2015-03-19a.900.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Mike Gapes	Both trusts that serve constituents in the London borough of Redbridge—Barking, Havering and Redbridge, which serves King George hospital in my constituency, and Barts, which serves Whipps Cross—are in special measures. In 2013, the Government forced the closure of maternity services at King George hospital, and as a result some of my constituents had to go to Whipps Cross. I am therefore shocked by what I have seen in the report. It is about time that the Government ruled out their plans to close the A and E at King George, because I do not want constituents of mine dying as a result of inadequate provision in north-east London.
2015-03-19a.901.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	The hon. Gentleman and I have debated these issues in Adjournment debates in this House, so I know that they are of great concern to him. All these issues in that part of London’s health economy need to be considered.
2015-03-19a.901.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Rehman Chishti	Will Barts be given the same excellent support from the Government as Medway hospital in my constituency, which is in special measures? It has received extra resources and been paired with excellent hospitals such as Guy’s and St Thomas’s. Will the Minister join me in paying tribute to the excellent staff who work day in, day out caring for patients at Medway? Will she also note that in 2006 Medway hospital had the seventh highest mortality rate in the country, yet nothing was done? Will the shadow Health Secretary apologise for that? I welcome the support that the Government have given Medway hospital to turn it around.
2015-03-19a.901.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	I thank my hon. Friend for that question. He illustrates the fact that these problems can be addressed through this regime of extra support. I pay tribute to the staff at his local hospital, who have worked so hard to address the failings and to provide much safer care for their patients. He illustrates exactly why this regime of being transparent about issues and ensuring additional support can be given to trusts to address their problems can be successful and can benefit patients.
2015-03-19a.901.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Meg Hillier	I am shocked by the Minister’s tone, as there are genuine concerns about the services that my constituents and those of colleagues are receiving. Barts is the largest trust in England, and when it was formed many concerns were raised. It dilutes accountability and direct line management. Does she agree now that it was too big and that consideration needs to be given to making a number of trusts out of this large trust that are more manageable and directly accountable?
2015-03-19a.901.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	As the hon. Lady knows, the site in question in this report is Whipps Cross. The priority for its management is to address the issues that the CQC has identified.
2015-03-19a.901.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Stephen Metcalfe	As my hon. Friend knows, Basildon hospital was one of 14 to go into special measures and one of the first out. I believe that the reason for that is the Government’s openness to accept there are problems and not duck them, the hard work of hospital staff and the open and transparent attitude adopted by the management team to accept the problem and make it their own. Is my hon. Friend confident that the leadership of Barts is willing to accept the problems unreservedly and has the ability to face up to the challenges?
2015-03-19a.902.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	The failings at the site are laid out in black and white in the CQC’s report and it is important that people accept that. There will be intensive support to address that, and the management have already said that they are looking at the problems and have begun to address them. My hon. Friend is right that management and leadership is critical. We have seen that in his area and in others, and that is what those involved must now face up to.
2015-03-19a.902.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jim Fitzpatrick	My hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali) and I have been assisting the save our surgeries campaign in Tower Hamlets for 18 months, because, like many other GP surgeries in east London, ours are feeling under threat. Today’s response from the Minister indicating that the trust for Barts and the Royal London is in special measures, as well as the Barking, Havering and Redbridge University Hospitals NHS Trust, demonstrates that there is anxiety across east London about the state of the national health service. We did not hear anything in the Budget statement yesterday to give any reassurance to the people of east London. Does the Minister not recognise how serious this is for east London?
2015-03-19a.902.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	This report alone is a very serious report, and of course it is recognised. But it is right that we are transparent about it. As a London MP, I know some of the challenges that parts of the London health economy face. The issues need to be addressed, but this Government have put record amounts into the health service. We are also committed to backing the NHS’s own “Five Year Forward View”, and moving forward new ways of delivering GP care is a part of that vision. We have to make sure that that delivers for the hon. Gentleman’s constituents, as well as for mine and for other people in London.
2015-03-19a.902.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-19a.902.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Mr Speaker	It is good to know that in his capacity as a distinguished ornament of the Health Committee, the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) takes a keen interest in matters appertaining to east London.
2015-03-19a.902.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Grahame Morris	Absolutely, and not least because we warned of these dangers during the passage of the Health and Social Care Bill, which later became an Act. With all due respect, I should point out to the Minister, on her references to openness and transparency, that this failing has happened as a direct result of mergers introduced by this Government. May I respectfully point out that when this merger was approved by the Secretary of State three years ago, Labour MPs, including my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead (John Cryer) , did point out that such a change would be a disaster, and that has come to pass? The Secretary of State pressed ahead. May I point out the bullying issues that the report throws up? The chairman of the Unison branch was sacked on trumped-up charges. Will the Minister issue instructions to have those individuals reinstated?
2015-03-19a.902.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	The bullying of NHS staff who are trying to draw attention to poor care is never acceptable, and this Government have taken a lot of measures to make sure that NHS staff are protected. The trust’s chief executive has said the following about the report: “We are very sorry for the failings identified by the CQC in some of our services at Whipps Cross and we know the Trust has a big challenge ahead.” Part of that big challenge will be in restoring staff morale, and making sure that that culture of openness and support for staff is in place.
2015-03-19a.903.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Heidi Alexander	The placing of Barts into special measures this week confirms what many of us already know: London hospitals are under enormous pressure, some simply cannot cope and too many patients are not getting the care they deserve. In the light of that, can the Minister confirm that the recently announced Monitor investigation into the Princess Royal hospital at Farnborough will not result in another attempt by her Government to take the axe to Lewisham hospital and to services in south-east London more generally?
2015-03-19a.903.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	I believe we may well be addressing that issue in an Adjournment debate next week. There will be a chance to discuss it in more detail then.
2015-03-19a.903.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Liz McInnes	Like my hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) , I am not from London, but I do feel qualified to speak on this subject. The issues that have been raised about staff morale and the “down banding” of nurses are all too familiar to me. Until October last year I worked for the NHS—I worked for the NHS for more than 30 years—and what is going on at Barts is very similar to what was going on in the trust in the north-west where I worked. Again, it was a large trust, having been formed by the merger of four hospitals. It is an unworkable plan. As my hon. Friend said, we warned about what was going to happen with the Health and Social Care Bill, and it is depressing to see all this come to fruition. The cost of agency staff, which has been referred to—
2015-03-19a.903.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Mr Speaker	Order. May I exhort the hon. Lady to come to a question? I know she has provided her diagnosis, and we are grateful to her for that, but what we need is a question.
2015-03-19a.903.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Liz McInnes	My question is regarding the trade unions and the welfare of staff. Staff morale is at an all-time low in the NHS, and trade unions need to be involved in any special measures that are taken in this trust.
2015-03-19a.903.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	The CQC’s inspection report does identify some issues of concern to do with staff morale and bullying. As I said to the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) a moment ago, the issues need to be addressed. We want a culture in which all staff can speak out about poor patient care and feel supported in doing so. That is exactly what we have put in place over recent years.
2015-03-19a.903.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Paul Flynn	It has been very disappointing that the Minister, for whom I have a very high regard, has dealt with this disgrace with a crudely political response. Does she not agree that an important element in the recovery of all patients is for them to have faith in their doctors and in the health service? No Government have done more than this one to undermine confidence in the health service throughout the nation. Does she not feel that great damage is being done by making the greatest political achievement of the past 100 years—the national health service—a political football to be knocked about by parties and by undermining that faith in the health service? That is something that the public will not forget and will never forgive.
2015-03-19a.904.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman’s basic premise—not at all. In fact, recently, people’s satisfaction with the NHS has gone up. What he says is a slur on our hard-working clinicians, who respond so magnificently to the pressures in our system. This Government have backed them with money and support. I just do not recognise the picture the hon. Gentleman paints.
2015-03-19a.904.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-19a.904.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Mr Speaker	Order. I note the interest—
2015-03-19a.904.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Andy Burnham	On a point of order, Mr Speaker—
2015-03-19a.904.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Mr Speaker	Yes, in a moment. I notice that the interest in this debate grew as it was taking place. The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means, the hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing) , and the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith) have toddled into the Chamber. [Interruption.] Yes, I understand that the right hon. Gentleman has a constituency interest, and that others have taken a keen interest. I will now allow a point of order, because it relates directly to the exchanges that have just taken place. I know that the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) will not abuse his privilege.
2015-03-19a.904.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Andy Burnham	I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker, for allowing this point of order. In the Minister’s non-reply to my questions, she inadvertently misled the House. She said that, before the last election, I had blocked a report on Basildon hospital. I wish to place it on the record that I made an oral statement to this House about Basildon hospital and published reports on it on 30 November 2009 . I followed that up with a written statement to the House on 5 March 2010 . I would be grateful to the Minister if she withdrew her comments.
2015-03-19a.904.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Mr Speaker	I note what the shadow Secretary of State has said. He has put it on the record. The Minister is welcome to respond if she wishes, but she is not obliged to.
2015-03-19a.904.7	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Jane Ellison	I was not a Member of the House at that time. Of course I would not wish inadvertently to mislead the House. Nevertheless— [Interruption.] I read out evidence that was given to the Francis inquiry that made it clear that such a culture did exist. However, if, on the specific point, I was not quite right, I will withdraw what I said.
2015-03-19a.904.8	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Barts Health NHS Trust	Mr Speaker	I am grateful to the hon. Lady for what she has said. We will leave it there.
2015-03-19a.905.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Speaker’s Statement	Mr Speaker	Before we come to the statement by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, I will make a brief statement. The content of ministerial statements is, by longstanding practice, not a matter for the Chair, nor is my permission required for such a statement to be made. However, these statements must be ministerial, delivered not in a personal or a party capacity but on behalf of the Government. Although some latitude is of course permitted, there comes a point at which using the privilege accorded to Ministers for purely party purposes would be unfair to the House and would put the Chair in a very difficult position. I know that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury will bear that in mind.
2015-03-19a.906.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	Yesterday my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer set out the final coalition Budget of this Parliament. The policy measures contained in the Budget document were all agreed between us. I secured key Liberal Democrat commitments, including the significant increase in the income tax personal allowance, support for mental health and tax measures to support motorists, Scotch whisky and the oil and gas sector, because together they make our society fairer and our economy stronger. However, I know that millions of people who watched yesterday’s exchanges between the Chancellor and the Leader of the Opposition were left wondering, “Isn’t there another way to do this?” Of course people want a stronger economy based on a credible plan, but they also want a fairer society based on modern public services. Therefore, to all those left cold by yesterday’s exchanges, to all those asking themselves whether there is another way, today I say, “Yes, there is a better way.” Today I set out a better economic plan for Britain, a plan that is based on values of fairness as well as strength, a plan that delivers on our commitment to balance the books in a fair way, a plan that borrows less than Labour, cuts less than the Conservatives and enables our country to see light at the end of the tunnel. It is not a rollercoaster ride, but a steady path back to prosperity. It sticks to the path we have chosen in this Government, rather than lurching away from it by cutting too much or borrowing too much. The fiscal forecast published by the Chancellor yesterday would, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility, return Government consumption—the effective spending power of the state—back to levels last seen in 1964. But the era of “Cathy Come Home” is not my vision for the future of Britain. [ Interruption. ] Although, I can see why 1964 might appeal to some on the Government side of the House—after all, that was before Nigel Farage was born. The economic plan that I am publishing today has been produced by the Treasury, based on assumptions I provided, using data from the Office for Budget Responsibility— [ Interruption. ]
2015-03-19a.906.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Derek Twigg	rose—
2015-03-19a.906.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Mr Speaker	Order. I will not take points of order in the middle of a statement.
2015-03-19a.906.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	Finishing the job we started in 2010 will require roughly £30 billion of fiscal consolidation by 2017-18. All parties in this House signed up to that in January, although the shadow Chancellor has been trying to wriggle out of that commitment ever since. Our first priority must be to ensure that those with the broadest shoulders bear the largest share, so the fiscal plans I am setting out today are based on a further £6 billion from tax dodgers—an additional £6 billion of tax rises. We should expect those in high-value properties, the banking sector and others to pay more, rather than asking those working on low incomes to accept less. That would leave around £12 billion of departmental expenditure savings and the remaining £3.5 billion from welfare savings. Those measures would allow the structural current deficit to be eliminated in 2017-18. In fact, the coalition’s fiscal mandate is met with headroom of £7.7 billion. Once that task is complete, we need to continue to cut the debt as a share of the economy, and we will not flinch from that task, because to do otherwise would be to leave an intolerable burden to future generations. Provided that we can meet that target, borrowing for productive investment in infrastructure—in roads, railways, broadband and housing—can and should be part of our plan. We will therefore grow public expenditure as the economy grows after 2017-18. Ten years on from the financial crisis is the right time for the public finances to turn the corner. To continue the pain beyond that date is unnecessary and simply making cuts for cuts’ sake. To go too slowly, as the Opposition recommend, would drag out the pain for too long. The national debt as a share of the economy would fall in every year of this plan, from 78.2% in 2017-18 to 76.1% and then 73.9%. The implied spending envelope for Departments would be £314.3 billion in 2017-18, rising to £324 billion and then £348.1 billion in the last year. That is £25 billion, £36 billion and then £40 billion more money available for public services and infrastructure investment than in the plans presented yesterday. Just think what could be achieved with that. [ Interruption. ] They might not like to hear it on the Opposition Benches, but that money could be used— [ Interruption. ]
2015-03-19a.907.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Mr Speaker	Order.
2015-03-19a.907.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	That money could be used to ensure that the NHS has the £8 billion it needs to secure its future, or to ensure that the education budget can be protected in real terms from cradle to college and not allowed to wither, or to support growth-enhancing spending of the sort delivered so effectively by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills— [ Interruption. ]
2015-03-19a.907.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Mr Speaker	Order. The hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) must resume his seat.
2015-03-19a.907.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Bob Russell	Send him out!
2015-03-19a.907.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Mr Speaker	Order. Sir Bob, I do not think I require a lecture from you upon the matter of good order. Calm yourself, man; it will be better for your health.
2015-03-19a.907.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	Labour Members may not like it, Mr Speaker, but I am setting out the numbers in the Treasury document published today, which is an entirely legitimate thing to do. This will also allow us to reward the hard-working public servants whose pay restraint has helped so much to balance the books. Public servants have made big sacrifices, and we need to repay that. No Chief Secretary has ever had to control public spending in the way that I have, and no Chief Secretary should ever have to do so again. But this scenario proves that there is no need to shrink the state in the way that some in this House propose. The recovery secured, the fiscal mandate met, national debt down, public finances that have turned the corner, a stronger economy and a fairer society, and a better future for the United Kingdom: that is what these plans deliver. However, fairness is not simply embodied by the numbers on a spreadsheet; it also about the actions that we take. Nothing makes people more angry than the sight of people refusing to pay the tax that they owe. Last month I committed to ensuring that any individual or company that facilitates tax evasion would face stronger criminal penalties and financial sanctions. Today we deliver on that commitment by publishing a substantial package of next steps in the clampdown on these immoral and illegal practices. We inherited— [ Interruption. ] If the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) would simply listen to what is being said instead of ranting like a lunatic, he would hear the measures that the Government are taking to clamp down on tax evasion. We inherited from the previous Government a tax system that had more holes than a Swiss cheese and was more complex than a Rubik’s cube. The opportunities for those who wish to get away without paying were many and varied.
2015-03-19a.908.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Andrew Gwynne	Which page of the Budget is this on?
2015-03-19a.908.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Mr Speaker	Order. The hon. Gentleman should not keep shrieking from a sedentary position, “Which page?” If the Chief Secretary wishes to go through page numbers, that is his prerogative, but if he does not, excessive gesticulation is rather unseemly. I have high aspirations for the hon. Gentleman’s future as a statesman, but I am not sure he is aiding his objective of becoming a statesman by this rather shrill shrieking, which in any case, as I am sure Mrs Gwynne will confirm, will be injurious to his health.
2015-03-19a.908.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	We would not wish to injure the hon. Gentleman’s health, Mr Speaker, nor to allow him not to hear the changes that we are making to deal with tax evasion. For too long, our tax system struggled with the fact that a small minority felt it perfectly okay to indulge in tax avoidance and commit the crime of tax evasion. The public will not tolerate being stolen from any more. When this coalition Government came into office, we made it clear that we would eradicate loopholes that the previous Administration had left wide open. We said, “If you have not been compliant, we will give you the chance to put your affairs in order, but then we will come after you.” Since 2010, in every year of this Parliament we have put in place measure after measure to tackle the abuse of the tax system. Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs will have secured £100 billion in additional revenue over the course of this Parliament. That includes more than £31 billion from big businesses and an extra £1.2 billion from the UK’s 6,000 richest people. Yesterday’s Budget announced further measures targeting those who persistently enter into or market tax avoidance schemes that HMRC defeats. The Budget also announced game-changing information exchange agreements with over 90 tax authorities worldwide. Today I can announce the next steps—a tough, comprehensive new evasion-deterring package. First, for offshore evaders, following consultation we will introduce a new strict liability criminal offence so that people can no longer simply plead ignorance in an attempt to avoid criminal prosecution. Strict liability will bring an end to the defence of, “I knew nothing—it was my accountant, m’lord.” Secondly, the Government will introduce a new offence of corporate failure to prevent tax evasion or the facilitation of tax evasion. No longer should any organisation be able to get away with facilitating or abetting others to evade tax. If people help a burglar, they are accomplices and criminals too. Now it will be the same for companies that fail to prevent their employees from helping tax evaders; they will be treated as accomplices too. Thirdly, we will increase financial penalties for offshore evaders, including, for the first time, linking the penalty to underlying assets. A billionaire evading £5 million of tax will not just be liable for that £5 million. Fourthly, we will introduce new civil penalties so that those who help evaders will have to pay fines that match the size of the tax dodge they facilitate. If someone helps someone else evade £1 million of tax, they risk a penalty of £1 million, or even more, themselves. Fifthly, we will extend the scope for Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to name and shame both evaders and those who enable evasion. Our message is simple: “Come forward and settle your affairs, or be caught and face the consequences.” These measures are helping to put in place a far more effective tax system in the UK. Once again it combines fiscal responsibility with fairness. I would like to mention one last measure. Mr Speaker, you and the right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) have pioneered measures to open up politics and Parliament to people from a more diverse range of backgrounds. Following extensive discussions, I am delighted to confirm that the Treasury has agreed to provide reserve funding of £200,000 a year for the Speaker’s parliamentary placement scheme in both 2015-16 and 2016-17, to ensure that its excellent work can continue beyond this year. I pay tribute to the work done by you, Mr Speaker, and the right hon. Lady as the driving forces behind the programme. Combining fiscal responsibility with fairness—that is the approach that we as Liberal Democrats have brought to the coalition Government. We will finish the job of dealing with the deficit, and do so fairly. We will get the national debt down, we will secure the economic recovery and we will have no tolerance for people who evade tax or those who help them. That is the approach that will deliver a stronger economy and a fairer society. I commend this statement to the House.
2015-03-19a.909.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Christopher Leslie	What a farce! Why has the right hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Danny Alexander) been allowed to use the Government Dispatch Box for his party political pleading this morning? Is this a statement of the Treasury’s policy or not? He said he was publishing fiscal plans today—where is that document? I thought that statements in the House of Commons were supposed to be from Ministers speaking collectively on behalf of the Government, but the right hon. Gentleman has totally abused that privilege, assembling MPs this morning on a false pretence. I know it is usual to have several days of Budget debates in the Commons, but not several Budgets. On a procedural point, I have to ask you, Mr Speaker: what recourse do we have, as the official Opposition, when statements are made that are not Government policy? [ Interruption. ] I do not know where the Deputy Prime Minister is going. I think that was his valedictory appearance in the House of Commons. Can we all have a turn at giving statements and using civil service resources in this way? Will we get to vote on both Budget statements or just one of them? The Government refused to let the Office for Budget Responsibility to cost all the manifesto policies of the main parties, but then they waste Treasury time and money specifically funding a Lib Dem policy document. Will the Chief Secretary at least tell the House how much this morning’s phoney exercise cost the taxpayer? What better illustration can there be of the shambolic downfall of this miserable Government when we cannot even tell whether a Minister is speaking in an official capacity? This is an alliance driven totally by party political interests, rather than Britain’s best interests. The right hon. Gentleman spoke about measures supposedly to tackle tax evasion and tax abuses. Are they actual Government policy or are they things that he would quite like to do but that other Ministers are squabbling about? Are they genuinely new powers to tackle tax evasion or just a series of press releases to give the impression of activity? The OBR has expressed doubt about the right hon. Gentleman’s approach to common reporting standards and says that these plans have “very high” levels of uncertainty. Can he clear that up? The OBR also says on page 209 of its report that today’s announcement relies “on extra HMRC operational capacity in order to be implemented as intended.” How much additional HMRC resource will be committed to the measures? When will it be committed and with what guarantee? With the tax gap widening a further £1 billion to £34 billion, why should we believe that these steps will be any different from the Government’s failed deal on tax disclosure with Switzerland, which has raised less than a third of the promised £3 billion and involved agreeing to turn a blind eye to abuses in the future? Would the new powers to tackle offshore tax abuses prevent what looks to have happened at HSBC? The ex-chairman of HSBC’s Swiss bank, Lord Green, apparently admitted last night to feeling “dismay and deep regret”, adding with enormous understatement that “the real world of the markets is shot through with imperfections”. You san say that again! Will the Chief Secretary at least now admit that it was an error for Lord Green to be appointed as one of his ministerial colleagues in the face of all the evidence, or did he sign up to that as well? The Chief Secretary came to the Dispatch Box to set out an alternative Lib Dem Budget, desperately trying at the eleventh hour to distance himself from the extreme and hazardous fate that awaits our public services—our police, our defence, our social services and the NHS—if his boss is re-elected. Let us just get this straight: is he now saying he cannot sign up to the Chancellor’s Budget, as in the Red Book, this time around? We know, or at least I thought we knew, that the quad, of which he is a member, had signed off the Budget and autumn statement figures. Is he now saying he will not be voting for what is in the Red Book next week? Are the Liberal Democrats ruling out a coalition with the Conservatives after the election? If they cannot even sign up to the Chancellor’s Budget when they are part of the Government, how on earth could they sign up for another five years? Does the Chief Secretary not realise how two-faced he looks? They want to have their cake and eat it—to be in government, but not in government. I can almost hear his constituents saying, “It’s too late, Danny. You’ve been propping up the Tories for five years—taking the NHS backwards, imposing the bedroom tax and trebling tuition fees, while slashing taxes for millionaires—so don’t come along now with your alternative plans and expect anybody to believe you.” It is too late for this: the Liberal Democrats have backed the Tories all the way—working families have paid the price—and now it is time for him to pay the ultimate price for his behaviour.
2015-03-19a.911.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	Frankly, the hon. Gentleman should know about farce—he has presided over the farce that is his own economic policy for the past five years. The hon. Gentleman referred to collective agreement. I can confirm that the publication of “An alternative fiscal path beyond 2016-17” has been collectively agreed by the Government as an alternative fiscal scenario. He may not like this constitutional innovation, but he should get used to having coalition Governments in the future. The fact that he does not like constitutional innovation is perhaps why he and his colleagues blocked House of Lords reform earlier in this Parliament. No Treasury resources were expended apart from in the work of the civil servants who calculated the numbers. It is entirely appropriate for civil servants to carry out work on a scenario on behalf of the Chief Secretary. In relation to the hon. Gentleman’s questions on tax evasion and avoidance, the new powers introduced by this Government are set out in a report today. I am sorry to hear that he opposes the common reporting standard. I would have thought that he welcomed the fact that there is UK leadership on ensuring that there are international agreements to open up offshore bank accounts to scrutiny by tax authorities from around the world. The new offences and penalties will of course hit any organisation, whether a bank or an accountancy firm, that facilitates others to engage in tax evasion. On the hon. Gentleman’s last question, he knows very well that, as the OBR says in its own document, its forecast is constructed on the basis of a neutral fiscal assumption that is presented for the rest of the Parliament. That conceals a range of differences between the different parties in the coalition. It is entirely proper for me to set out today what I think we are undertaking, exactly as the Chancellor did in his speech yesterday. Instead of this pathetic display, the Labour party should get on with apologising for the economic mess it created, and it should congratulate the Liberal Democrats and the coalition Government on clearing up its mess.
2015-03-19a.911.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Several hon. Members	rose—
2015-03-19a.912.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Mr Speaker	Order. I must tell the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) that he is a cheeky fellow. He came into the Chamber after the start of the statement, and I therefore know that he will not expect to be called to ask a question on it, for in parliamentary terms that would be inappropriate. I know that he would not knowingly commit a misdemeanour in that regard. He can sit and listen if he so wishes, but he will not take part in this particular exchange. That is only fair.
2015-03-19a.912.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Adam Afriyie	I have to say that I am stunned by this statement. The fact that not a single Conservative is on the Front Bench says an awful lot. This is the Westminster bubble at its absolute worst, and it represents everything that is wrong with politics today. The Liberal Democrats have betrayed their voters, and their voters know it; their own candidates are now pretending to be independents; and today’s display is an absolute betrayal of the role they have played in government. I have no question, Mr Speaker. I think the voters will make up their own minds.
2015-03-19a.912.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	Given that we have secured a substantial fall in the deficit, the strongest economic growth in Europe and the creation of jobs in numbers that are not being seen in the rest of the European Union, the hon. Gentleman ought to be congratulating me and my hon. Friends on our role in this Government, not criticising us.
2015-03-19a.912.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Chris Bryant	A fanfare went up around the country when, in the autumn statement, the Government announced that there was going to be a tax relief for orchestras. Now we learn that the Government’s definition of an orchestra says that an orchestra can get tax relief only if it has woodwind, strings, percussion and brass—all four. That means that no string orchestra is included, the London Sinfonia is not included, the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment is not included and nor, for that matter, is a single brass band in the land. If the Chief Secretary wants somebody to trumpet his orchestra tax relief, will he not have to change the rules?
2015-03-19a.912.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	I think that the hon. Gentleman is trying to make a serious point. Officials in HMRC have worked very carefully on writing a definition that is appropriate. I will certainly take his points back to HMRC and see whether they can be taken on board.
2015-03-19a.912.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Ian Swales	I welcome the Chief Secretary’s statements on tax evasion and avoidance. Does he agree that it should no longer be a respectable occupation to advise those who want to avoid paying their share towards our schools, hospitals, our armed forces, pensions and all the other things on which our country relies, and enable them to do so?
2015-03-19a.912.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend. I have championed action on that matter in the Treasury over the past five years, and today’s Government announcements show the next stage of that. As he says, this country does not and should not tolerate the abuse of the tax system that has gone on in the past.
2015-03-19a.913.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Stewart Hosie	I have never seen a statement, other than a Budget statement, that is so heavily redacted. It is almost as if the Chief Secretary is trying to pretend that he is important. He sat there yesterday and grinned as the Chancellor announced £30 billion of cuts. He voted for £30 billion of cuts in January and he has boasted about it today. He has not laid out a plan that combines fiscal responsibility and fairness. The plan is in the Red Book. It is not responsible and it is not fair; it is just another five years of austerity and cuts, and he knows it.
2015-03-19a.913.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	Given that the hon. Gentleman speaks on behalf of a party that wants to break up and bankrupt the United Kingdom and that has set out plans to have the national debt higher at the end of the next Parliament than at the beginning, he has a cheek. The Scottish National party’s plans would do nothing to sort out this country’s economy. They would damage the recovery and cause jobs to be lost in Scotland. I think that the people of Scotland can make up their own minds about that.
2015-03-19a.913.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Malcolm Bruce	I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the work that he has done to ensure that the wealthiest pay a much higher contribution in taxes than they did under the last Government, who created more loopholes for the rich to avoid taxes than there are holes in a sieve. Surely it is perfectly legitimate for a coalition that has secured recovery and growth for five years to set out how that can be taken forward in the next five years. May I suggest that if coalitions are to become the norm, we need to find better ways of handling them, so that the two coalition parties can present their cases to the House? This statement is a perfectly reasonable way of doing that.
2015-03-19a.913.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend. I thank him for his support on the measures to support tax avoidance and evasion and on the package of measures that we announced yesterday to support the oil and gas industry, which has been widely welcomed in his constituency and elsewhere. He is absolutely right that although the Labour party might not like the fact that we have a coalition Government, it needs to get used to the idea that that may well be the norm for many years to come. Innovation will be needed in parliamentary procedures and other things to accommodate that.
2015-03-19a.913.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Yvonne Fovargue	At the beginning of his statement, the Chief Secretary seemed to express concern over the direction of the coalition Budget and some of its measures. Will he confirm that the Liberal Democrats will go through the Lobbies with their coalition partners?
2015-03-19a.913.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	As I said in my statement, all policy measures in the Budget have been agreed across the coalition. What is being set out is an alternative fiscal scenario for meeting the path of deficit reduction to 2017-18, which is an entirely legitimate thing to do. Labour Members may not like the fact that they crashed the economy, made a mess of the nation’s finances, and have no plan of their own to sort it out, but they should welcome the fact that an alternative plan has been set out today.
2015-03-19a.914.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Duncan Hames	I commend my right hon. Friend for the action he is taking in government to prevent tax dodging—not long ago it was relatively easy to take advice on that simply by watching the “Daily Politics”. Will he say how much extra revenue Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has been able to collect as a result of action he has already taken to prevent tax dodging?
2015-03-19a.914.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question, which gives me the opportunity to pay tribute to the excellent people who work for HMRC. They work hard, day in, day out, on behalf of us all, to ensure that we bring in the revenue that is required, and that compliance procedures are in place to ensure that people cannot get away with dodging tax. As a result of the actions we have taken, more than £100 billion of revenue is being collected by the Exchequer that would not otherwise have been collected.
2015-03-19a.914.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Tom Blenkinsop	A Budget, in other terms, is an estimate. Will the Chief Secretary to the Treasury please tell us about estimates that the Lib Dems will have more or fewer MPs after the general election than the 16 who are currently in the Chamber?
2015-03-19a.914.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	I am not sure that is a matter for the House; it is a matter for the British people in the coming election, and I confidently expect that the Liberal Democrats will do far better than any of the pundits predict.
2015-03-19a.914.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	John Thurso	I commend my right hon. Friend in setting out a fair path to a stronger economy. Will he join me in congratulating Wick tax office, which has done such a sterling job on cracking down on avoidance through film partnerships, and which is still open despite many Treasury attempts to close it? As the economy grows, will he pay real attention to investing in infrastructure and education so that we can maintain a sustainable recovery and invest in our future?
2015-03-19a.914.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend and his work on the Treasury Committee, and to staff at Wick tax office for their work to ensure compliance in our tax system. They have brought in many millions of pounds of revenue that would not otherwise have been collected. He is right to stress the importance of investment in infrastructure. Under this Government, we have the largest programme of investment in our railways since Victorian times, and in our road network since the 1970s. The plans I am setting out today would allow and enable borrowing for productive capital investment after the books are balanced, which will allow us to do more of that still. That is the right, fair plan for this country.
2015-03-19a.914.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Susan Elan Jones	The Chief Secretary to the Treasury may be aware of a popular television programme in this country called “Pointless”—it would be unkind of me to use the same description about him, so I will not. Can he say in one short sentence what exactly was the point of what he has said today, apart from pacifying some of his colleagues?
2015-03-19a.915.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	The hon. Lady is a member of a party whose last Chief Secretary left a note boasting that there was no money left—I think “Cashless” might best describe the Labour party. The point of my statement is exactly what I set out. I do not intend to repeat the entire statement in response to the hon. Lady’s question, but it is clear that behind the neutral fiscal assumption on which the OBR constructs its forecast, many different paths are open to this country. The alternative scenario published by the Treasury today illustrates one such path, which I would endorse.
2015-03-19a.915.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Anne McIntosh	I commend the Budget and congratulate the Government on focusing on reducing national debt, which seems to have taken the wind out of Opposition sails. I thank the Chief Secretary for agreeing to a rural fuel duty discount for Hawes. Regrettably that is not in Thirsk, Malton and Filey, but I am sure my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) will be very pleased. Will the Chief Secretary take heart that the £10 less duty paid on tanking up a car will bring great comfort to families in north Yorkshire?
2015-03-19a.915.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	I thank my hon. Friend for her consistent support for the rural fuel discount scheme. She was one of the Conservative Members who spoke up for this in the last Parliament, as well as in this one, and she makes the right argument. I am delighted that we are the first country in the EU to put in place a rural fuel discount scheme for remote mainland communities, and I hope in due course it will be possible to extend it—so I do not wish her constituents to think that the hope of its being extended to them is extinguished.
2015-03-19a.915.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Alex Cunningham	The right hon. Gentleman has tried to give a very different impression today, but if he is still “all in it together” with the Chancellor, will he do what his boss has refused to do and tell us where the £12 billion of cuts to the welfare budget will fall?
2015-03-19a.915.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	It might have escaped the hon. Gentleman’s knowledge, but his Front-Bench team signed up to the revised charter for fiscal responsibility, which requires £30 billion of further deficit reduction. I can reassure him that I do not support the Conservative policy of £12 billion of welfare cuts in the next Parliament, but no doubt that matter will be debated in the election campaign. I believe Labour claims it has some plans for reducing welfare expenditure, though, as on everything else, it has not set out any detail.
2015-03-19a.915.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Alan Beith	I commend my right hon. Friend for his determination in staying a course that avoids the excessive borrowing advocated by Labour and the ideologically based welfare cuts of the kind just mentioned. Without such a course, it will not be possible to deliver what he has given a personal commitment to—dualling the A1 and repairing the road into Rothbury taken away by a landslide. These and other measures have been based on the success of Liberal Democrat participation in the coalition.
2015-03-19a.915.6	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	I agree with my right hon. Friend. The plan I have set out today ensures that we would borrow less than Labour and cut less than the Conservatives, ensuring a fair path for the public finances, which is necessary to deliver in full on our plans to dual the A1—plans that he has championed relentlessly during his time in the House. I am pleased it has been a Liberal Democrat Chief Secretary who has enabled that scheme to be funded.
2015-03-19a.916.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Debbie Abrahams	This is clearly the Chief Secretary to the Treasury presenting an alternative Liberal Democrat Budget. He obviously did not hear your statement at the beginning, Mr Speaker. To press him on the point my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) raised, how will he be voting on Monday, and if he is going to vote for his own alternative Budget, will he be resigning as Chief Secretary to the Treasury?
2015-03-19a.916.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	With the greatest respect, I think it was the hon. Lady who was not listening. I made it clear that the policy measures in the Budget were ones that I helped put together, on an equal basis with the Chancellor, and I will be voting in favour of all the Budget resolutions, as I think Labour should. If it wants to oppose income tax cuts for working people and measures to support first-time buyers, savers and motorists, it should tell the British electorate.
2015-03-19a.916.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Matthew Offord	I am grateful to the Liberal Democrats for coming to the House and announcing their policies, because it will allow me to campaign in the election for the Conservative party manifesto and put clear blue water between our two parties. However, I have to congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his stance today. I think he has pulled off the neat trick of not only being a member of the Government but showing himself able to be part of the opposition—something that Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition have not been able to do in the last five years.
2015-03-19a.916.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	I think I will take that as a compliment, although I do not know if it was meant as such. The hon. Gentleman makes a perfectly reasonable point. He and I are members of different political parties and have different visions of the future, but we have worked together in this coalition Government very effectively to clear up the mess left by Labour and get our country back on the right track. Of that, both coalition parties ought to be proud.
2015-03-19a.916.4	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Mary Glindon	How does the Chief Secretary expect to tackle tax evasion and avoidance if the Government go ahead with reducing the number of HMRC staff—the staff he was just praising—from 50,000 to 40,000 by next year?
2015-03-19a.916.5	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	As I explained in my statement, we have set out a range of measures in this Parliament to improve compliance activity, including by investing an extra £1 billion in precisely the areas of HMRC that focus on this, so there are more specialist tax inspectors, accountants, lawyers and so on focusing on this area. Yesterday, we announced the ending of the tax return and the move to a digital system for tax reporting, which will save money for both taxpayers and HMRC and allow even more resource to be focused on tackling avoidance and evasion.
2015-03-19a.917.0	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Annette Brooke	I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. Will he comment briefly on its implications for the future funding of our nurseries, our schools and our colleges—something very important to us on the Liberal Democrat side?
2015-03-19a.917.1	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	My right hon. Friend makes an important point. I believe that in the next Parliament, we should protect the budgets in real terms not just of schools, but of early-years education and 16-to-19 education as well. Saying simply that cash per pupil should be provided on a frozen basis across the Parliament amounts to real-terms cuts for education. That is what people will get from one party of this coalition, but from our part of it, people will get real-terms growth and expenditure in all parts of the education system. I think that is vital, given the role of those institutions in fostering opportunity for all in our society.
2015-03-19a.917.2	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Jim Cunningham	The Chief Secretary has just talked about education. If he is really concerned about the education of 16 to 24-year-olds, why is he cutting the further education budget in Coventry by 24%? He should look further at the validity of the claim that the Government are going to create more apprenticeships. That rings hollow, certainly in my ears, so will the Chief Secretary please clarify the answer he just gave to the hon. Member for Hendon (Dr Offord) ?
2015-03-19a.917.3	ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE	Fiscal Responsibility and Fairness	Danny Alexander	It is a matter of record that 2.1 million apprenticeships have been created under this Government. That was the result of substantial investment by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. I would have thought that apprenticeships, and their growth, would be welcomed on all sides, because it is an important way for people to gain skills, not least within this House. I very much hope that, on reflection, the hon. Gentleman will welcome that substantial investment.